Champion fighter

[Stormtrooper666]

Hey

I was wondering if anyone knows of any examples of the fighter subclass champion from movies/tv/books?

[Xihirli]

I mean Alice in Wonderland from the live action... requel is literally called a "champion" and fights with a sword and shield and armor but no magic.

But as far as Champions go, I mean... their distinctive thing is "being good at fighting" so any example of a fighter from media you could argue is a champion. You can't really watch a movie and think "yeah, THAT fighter in particular can crit on a 19."

[Dork_Forge]

I think any character that is primarily just a physical beast would be applicable here, like He-Man or maybe Conan.

[Unoriginal]

Hey

I was wondering if anyone knows of any examples of the fighter subclass champion from movies/tv/books?

Roland from "La Chanson de Roland".



But as far as Champions go, I mean... their distinctive thing is "being good at fighting" so any example of a fighter from media you could argue is a champion. You can't really watch a movie and think "yeah, THAT fighter in particular can crit on a 19."

You can say "this person in particular seems to hit important spots for massive damage more than others", at least sometime.

Though to me the thing that makes the Champion noticeable was always how they can get bloodied but just keep going and going (at high level, that is).

I suppose you can say John McClane in the first Die Hard is one.

[Witty Username]

Gimli and Boromir are fair enough examples.

Champion fighter is a catch all, its the fighter when no other fighter fits.

[RogueJK]

Champion fighter is a catch all, its the fighter when no other fighter fits.

Exactly. It's the "default Fighter character".

If they're a Fighter, but they're not utilizing tricks and fancy maneuvers (Battlemaster), or being wise and diplomatic (Samurai), or casting a few spells (Eldritch Knight), or using psychic powers (Psi Warrior), or growing in size and carving runes (Rune Knight), etc., then that fighter character is a Champion.

So the majority of Fighter characters from the majority of shows/movies/books are going to be Champions, in D&D5E terms.

[DracoKnight]

IIRC, Drizzt Do’Urden is a Champion with a figurine of wondrous power.

[RogueJK]

IIRC, Drizzt Do’Urden is a Champion with a figurine of wondrous power.

There have been a few quasi-official stat blocks in 5E. In one, he's a Champion Fighter 8. In another he's a Champion Fighter 11/Hunter Ranger 8. In the third, he's a NPC with some of the features of a Champion Fighter that's at least 11th level (3x attacks, Indomitable, Improved Critical).

[DracoKnight]

There have been a few quasi-official stat blocks in 5E. In one, he's a Champion Fighter 8. In another he's a Champion Fighter 11/Hunter Ranger 8. In the third, he's a NPC with some of the features of a Champion Fighter that's at least 11th level (3x attacks, Indomitable, Improved Critical).

The last one is the one I was remembering. It’s still up on Perkins’ Twitter. It was used for an AqInc show, and as far as I’m aware it’s considered the “canon” statblock by the designers.

[Anonymouswizard]

But as far as Champions go, I mean... their distinctive thing is "being good at fighting" so any example of a fighter from media you could argue is a champion. You can't really watch a movie and think "yeah, THAT fighter in particular can crit on a 19."

I mean, with the name you'd expect them to get abilities that boosted their allies. An inspiring aura or the like.


Gimli and Boromir are fair enough examples.

Champion fighter is a catch all, its the fighter when no other fighter fits.

I think the scene in Jackson's version of Fellowship of the Ring where Boromir is defending the hobbits from the Uruk-Hai is an example of a Champion in action. He takes multiple hits that should have downed him, and probably would have downed his teammates, but keeps on getting up until he's on the verge of death.

Although you could also make a decent argument for Boromir as a Cavalier. The issue with these exercises is that fictional characters don't fit into the neat boxes games tend to represent. Even when they do it can be non-obvious (Gandalf would probably be a Bard or multiclass Bard/Fighter).

Take Guts from Berserk, he's clearly a Fighter but doesn't really fit any of the published subclasses. If I had to stat him up it would probably be as a Variant Human (Battlemaster) 8 with 20 Strength, GWM, and a homebrew Feat that allowed the use of oversized weapons. He's doesn't often use things that would count as maneuvers but when he does they're devestating. However it's still not a great fit, it's just kind of a 'close enough'.

[Gignere]

Take Guts from Berserk, he's clearly a Fighter but doesn't really fit any of the published subclasses. If I had to stat him up it would probably be as a Variant Human (Battlemaster) 8 with 20 Strength, GWM, and a homebrew Feat that allowed the use of oversized weapons. He's doesn't often use things that would count as maneuvers but when he does they're devestating. However it's still not a great fit, it's just kind of a 'close enough'.

Guts is clearly a very high level, battlemaster / barbarian (berserker) with great weapon master and heavy armor mastery, he fights with plenty of maneuvers in fact it’s repeatedly stated at least narratively the only way he matches the speed and power of the apostles is with his superior technique.

He clearly fights using various techniques in many fights it’s only when he berserks that’s when he loses it all. When he fights Zodd and breaks Zodd sword that is all technique and a “maneuver”.

Unfortunately he can’t be statted in 5e because they made the stupid decision to disallow rage in heavy armor. Also his dragon slayer can be a dragon wrath weapon that gets more d6s as it goes up in rarity and it can be narratively described as extra damage comes from it being oversized. Even the once per day cone attack is perfect, because that’s his “cannon” attack.

[CMCC]

There is none. It has no flavor in the mechanics.

I’ve made a lot of fictional character builds and if champion fighter is a potential option, there has ALWAYS been a better option.

[TyGuy]

The Clegane brothers (mountain and hound) in GoT are quintessential champion fighters. No flash, just brute strength and tough to kill.

[Psyren]

Honestly, when I think Champion I don't think brute strength. Champion is more of an all-rounder, as evidenced by them being decent at all manner of both Str and Dex checks, and being able to end up with more fighting styles than any other subclass. Champion is the switch-hitter; they're the subclass you take to polevault up to a half-open window, squeeze through the gap to get inside, sneak up behind the guard with his back turned, and choke him out.

...Or at least it would be, if Champion wasn't so undertuned. You could give them full proficiency in every Str / Dex / Con check instead of half-proficiency and they'd still be weak. My longstanding suggestion for them (which I'll be making in their playtest if it's not there) is that they should get another Ability Score Improvement as a subclass feature.


Gimli and Boromir are fair enough examples.

Boromir maybe, but Gimli's comedic struggles with running and jumping don't scream Champion to me.

[sethdmichaels]

The issue with these exercises is that fictional characters don't fit into the neat boxes games tend to represent.

subclasses are abstractions - starting points that suggest a play style, but nothing that has to dictate the interesting things about a character - personality, values, backstory, etc. Champion, even more than the other fighter subclasses, is a pretty blank slate upon which you could build all kinds of characters with both mechanics (race, feat choices) and creativity (personality and vibe).

[Easy e]

John Wick


Words for the word god.

[Dr.Samurai]

...but Gimli's comedic struggles with running and jumping don't scream Champion to me.
Look how they massacred my boy...

I think John Wick and John McClane are great examples (though I can see Wick being more Battle Master, as he does disarm people and his grabs and throws are pretty technical).

I think Guts is clearly a Berserker. Fights recklessly, can wield a giant sword without disadvantage, takes an insane amount of punishment in battle, has to rest after big fights, absolutely fearless, people are intimidated by him, very quick on his feet, wears medium armor before Berserker Armor.

[Unoriginal]

Funnily enough, Book!Gimli would probably have some Rogue levels.

Gimli was stealthy enough that not even Aragorn could notice him when he was sneaking around, and he managed to leave elves speechless with his way with words.

[Gignere]

Look how they massacred my boy...

I think John Wick and John McClane are great examples (though I can see Wick being more Battle Master, as he does disarm people and his grabs and throws are pretty technical).

I think Guts is clearly a Berserker. Fights recklessly, can wield a giant sword without disadvantage, takes an insane amount of punishment in battle, has to rest after big fights, absolutely fearless, people are intimidated by him, very quick on his feet, wears medium armor before Berserker Armor.

No Guts is most definitely a battlemaster pre advent, he never rages before that. Post advent I agree he is a Berserker, he has to be a multi class battlemaster / berserker. With the house rule that you can rage in heavy armor, since he rages in heavy armor even before he gets the berserker armor post advent.

[Rukelnikov]

No Guts is most definitely a battlemaster pre advent, he never rages before that. Post advent I agree he is a Berserker, he has to be a multi class battlemaster / berserker. With the house rule that you can rage in heavy armor, since he rages in heavy armor even before he gets the berserker armor post advent.

When is Advent? The time he fought 100 soldiers in the Forest he was already a barbarian, likely already a Zerk.

[Gignere]

When is Advent? The time he fought 100 soldiers in the Forest he was already a barbarian, likely already a Zerk.

No even when he fought the 100 soldiers he was not raging he was going through his life’s philosophy. He was asking what he is doing there, and soon he will not even think about that but the movement of his sword. That’s when he comes to the conclusion what he does is nothing like what Griffith or even Casca is trying to accomplish with their life. You need to read the manga it goes into way more detail than the anime.

[Dr.Samurai]

No Guts is most definitely a battlemaster pre advent, he never rages before that.
Well, we can certainly agree to disagree. I am not convinced that he has to literally be "raging" to have the Rage feature, but I do think he rages before then. In the battle where he gains the 100 Man Slayer moniker, he is raging. When they rescue Griffith, he is raging. During the Eclipse, he is raging. Guts also just seems to have a lot of pent up tension and anger in general.

Post advent I agree he is a Berserker, he has to be a multi class battlemaster / berserker. With the house rule that you can rage in heavy armor, since he rages in heavy armor even before he gets the berserker armor post advent.
I've got no issues with giving him Battlemaster levels. But... I think it's a stretch on the heavy armor. I guess, since the Black Swordsman has protection on his thighs, it doesn't qualify for Half Plate, but Guts is in Medium Armor for a large part of the story. I would sooner say that he's wearing Half Plate as the Black Swordsman, and the Berserker Armor has an enchantment that allows it to work with Rage, since it is literally compelling him to give into his fury.

[Gignere]

Well, we can certainly agree to disagree. I am not convinced that he has to literally be "raging" to have the Rage feature, but I do think he rages before then. In the battle where he gains the 100 Man Slayer moniker, he is raging. When they rescue Griffith, he is raging. During the Eclipse, he is raging. Guts also just seems to have a lot of pent up tension and anger in general.

I've got no issues with giving him Battlemaster levels. But... I think it's a stretch on the heavy armor. I guess, since the Black Swordsman has protection on his thighs, it doesn't qualify for Half Plate, but Guts is in Medium Armor for a large part of the story. I would sooner say that he's wearing Half Plate as the Black Swordsman, and the Berserker Armor has an enchantment that allows it to work with Rage, since it is literally compelling him to give into his fury.

Why would yo I say he is raging when he is fighting the 100 men slayer. He is literally contemplating about his life decisions and what how is it inconsequential compared to his comrades. That is as far from raging as possibly can. The saving Griffith you can say he was raging when he was running up the tower but after that he wasn’t at all. He is very calm and collected and coordinating with Judeau to strike when he saids now as he creates sparks, to fight off the Bakiraka. Then during the dog apostle fight he definitely does not rage because he was matching him with technique then later on delivered the killing blow using a feint tactic like the farthest from a raging barbarian.

He only really starts raging regularly after the advent where Griffith sacrifices band of the hawk.

By the time of the advent Guts was already one of the best if not the best swordsman in Midland. So he has to be a very high level battlemaster by then.

[Dr.Samurai]

The fight in the woods goes on for a long time. I agree that he's not raging for the first part, or at least doesn't appear to be. But after he's been monologuing internally for some time, he chastises himself for being distracted and admits that now is the time for fighting, and he literally lets out a battlecry and rushes back into the fray practically growling, and everyone starts retreating. He definitely rages there.

He most certainly rages in the Griffith escape. He's wide eyed the whole time and murders his way through like... another hundred men. At the end he is just standing there wide eyed and Casca consoles him and brings him out of his battle fury.

And during the Eclipse... I mean, the guy literally tears his arm off to escape a demon lol. He breaks off demon parts and uses them as weapons. He's running around shirtless catapaulting off demon monsters and slicing them in half.

All that said, I can see Battle Master as well. He does disarm weapons, he sunders weapons, he uses tactics, like with Griffith against Zod, or like when he throws that battle standard to distract the polearm guy on the horse (I forget his name). And the rage in the woods against the hundred men could also just be Second Wind.

But for me, Berserker makes more sense.

[pulpexploder]

I think Achilles from the movie Troy is a great example. No tricks or gimmicks, he's just a really good fighter, and his whole shtick is being the best—one of the few things we can pull from the Champion flavor text. If you were to build him as a DND character, all of his physical attributes would be fairly high. Getting into the mechanics of that build, a spear and shield build would be great with the Piercer and Polearm Master feats and this could actually make a pretty solid Chamion.

[animewatcha]

So butcher's bib (can't remember if acquisition incorporated or critical role) covers 3 level dip of champion fighter. Additional fighting style can easily be a feat or a 'weapons master-like' magic item (attunement, gain fighting style till next dawn). What other magic items could be used to replicate the other class features?