Echo Knight + Tiny Hut Shenanigans

[tieren]

SO, I am playing a bladesinger currently who started with a level in fighter for the Con proficiency and fighting style. I am planning to get fighter 2 at some point for action surge, and that got me looking at whether I want to take a third level for a subclass. My DM is fine with Echo Knight.

Hypothetical:
If I cast Leomund's Tiny Hut, can I stay in it and either manifest my echo outside or inside and move it outside and have it fight for me while I am safe in the hut? I know it only has 1 hp so will die every turn, but if I am not mistaken, every turn I could manifest it again as a bonus action and have it go attack while I stay safe. Does that work?

[Damon_Tor]

SO, I am playing a bladesinger currently who started with a level in fighter for the Con proficiency and fighting style. I am planning to get fighter 2 at some point for action surge, and that got me looking at whether I want to take a third level for a subclass. My DM is fine with Echo Knight.

Hypothetical:
If I cast Leomund's Tiny Hut, can I stay in it and either manifest my echo outside or inside and move it outside and have it fight for me while I am safe in the hut? I know it only has 1 hp so will die every turn, but if I am not mistaken, every turn I could manifest it again as a bonus action and have it go attack while I stay safe. Does that work?

The echo is explicitly a magical effect. Magical effects cannot extend through Tiny Hut. So no.

[tieren]

The echo is explicitly a magical effect. Magical effects cannot extend through Tiny Hut. So no.

What if it was already manifested and outside the area when Tiny Hut was cast?

[Ortho]

The echo is explicitly a magical effect. Magical effects cannot extend through Tiny Hut. So no.

There's a Sage Advice that clarifies the echo is a magical object (https://www.sageadvice.eu/the-echo-knights-echo-does-it-count-as-a-creature-for-the-purpose-of-optional-flanking-rules-and-as-a-target-to-spells-and-attacks/). Under that interpretation, since objects within the hut can pass freely in and out of it, you can absolutely summon an echo within the hut and have it pop out to make attacks. Though I still don't think you'd be able to be inside the hut and summon the echo outside.

[Dr.Samurai]

SO, I am playing a bladesinger currently who started with a level in fighter for the Con proficiency and fighting style. I am planning to get fighter 2 at some point for action surge, and that got me looking at whether I want to take a third level for a subclass. My DM is fine with Echo Knight.

Hypothetical:
If I cast Leomund's Tiny Hut, can I stay in it and either manifest my echo outside or inside and move it outside and have it fight for me while I am safe in the hut? I know it only has 1 hp so will die every turn, but if I am not mistaken, every turn I could manifest it again as a bonus action and have it go attack while I stay safe. Does that work?
Have to say, whether it works or not, I love this idea lol.

But can it be a retired crotchety veteran fighter? Peeking out the windows of his Tiny Hut and yelling for monsters to keep off his lawn? And when they don't, he sends out his echo, from a previous time, younger and more fit lol.

[Damon_Tor]

What if it was already manifested and outside the area when Tiny Hut was cast?

I would rule that your ability to move your echo and attack with it constitutes a "magical effect" and would be unable to pass through the barrier. This is the same reason most telepathy and scrying can't be used from inside the hut.

I expect the echo would persist, but your ability to command it wouldn't function while the hut was between you. You could, however, pop out of the hut to make the echo do its thing then pop back in when your turn was done. But then again anybody can use these sorts of tactics with the hut, so that's not particularly special.

[tieren]

But can it be a retired crotchety veteran fighter? Peeking out the windows of his Tiny Hut and yelling for monsters to keep off his lawn? And when they don't, he sends out his echo, from a previous time, younger and more fit lol.

I'm stealing this, love it.

[tieren]

I would rule that your ability to move your echo and attack with it constitutes a "magical effect" and would be unable to pass through the barrier. This is the same reason most telepathy and scrying can't be used from inside the hut.

I expect the echo would persist, but your ability to command it wouldn't function while the hut was between you. You could, however, pop out of the hut to make the echo do its thing then pop back in when your turn was done. But then again anybody can use these sorts of tactics with the hut, so that's not particularly special.

If I cast the hut I can't pop out of it.

Let me ask you similar question. If the druid cast summon animals and then ducked into the hut would you not allow him to control the summons?

[Damon_Tor]

If I cast the hut I can't pop out of it.

Let me ask you similar question. If the druid cast summon animals and then ducked into the hut would you not allow him to control the summons?

The summons "obey your verbal commands" and your ability to speak is non-magical, so yes this works. The hut doesn't appear to block non-magical sounds. A spell which requires you to issue mental commands would be blocked by the hut, however.

[tokek]

Running a westmarches style server I’ve run into a few of these edge case exploits with Echo Knight. It’s rules not tightly written enough really so I find it’s where rulings rather than rules are extra important.

Whether I would go for this or the similar Resilient Sphere combo as a DM entirely defends on the type of game I’m running. But as both are very non-interactive and really look like I Win buttons I would need a lot of persuading to rule in their favor.

Much as I love the flavour of the CR stuff and much as we decry the loose rules on official stuff these interactions with Echo Knight showcase perfectly why a DM needs to be mindful when allowing unofficial content.

[Unoriginal]

Running a westmarches style server I’ve run into a few of these edge case exploits with Echo Knight. It’s rules not tightly written enough really so I find it’s where rulings rather than rules are extra important.

Whether I would go for this or the similar Resilient Sphere combo as a DM entirely defends on the type of game I’m running. But as both are very non-interactive and really look like I Win buttons I would need a lot of persuading to rule in their favor.

Much as I love the flavour of the CR stuff and much as we decry the loose rules on official stuff these interactions with Echo Knight showcase perfectly why a DM needs to be mindful when allowing unofficial content.

Echo Knight is official content, though.

Flabbergasting but true.

[tokek]

Echo Knight is official content, though.

Flabbergasting but true.

Its rules are still not very tightly written. The moment you get into weird combo cases that are hard to resolve it’s time for the DM to actually run their game and make a ruling.

That’s the 5e way.

[tieren]

The summons "obey your verbal commands" and your ability to speak is non-magical, so yes this works. The hut doesn't appear to block non-magical sounds. A spell which requires you to issue mental commands would be blocked by the hut, however.

True but they only exist for as long as you maintain concentration on the summoning spell, so there must be some magical connection between the caster and the spell effect. Similarly, if someone else came into the hut for a buff would the effect of the buff not be able to leave the hut with them (maybe temporary hp from an aid spell).

[Damon_Tor]

True but they only exist for as long as you maintain concentration on the summoning spell, so there must be some magical connection between the caster and the spell effect. Similarly, if someone else came into the hut for a buff would the effect of the buff not be able to leave the hut with them (maybe temporary hp from an aid spell).

There's an argument to be made there, but I wouldn't rule it that way. Your concentration on a spell is explicitly unaffected by things like the spell's range and line of sight. For those reasons I would tend to think that your concentration isnt a "magic effect" that connects you to the product of your spell.

Most of the time.

There are exceptions: a spell that explicitly notes a magical effect between yourself and the target of the spell, like witch bolt, would be disabled by a tiny hut. Notably, such spells will also tend to have exceptions to the range/LoS rule as well.

[RSP]

Concentration isn’t magical, so far as I’m aware. For instance, if a Wizard casts Haste on a Fighter, casting Dispel Magic on the Wizard won’t end Haste on the Fighter. Nor would the Wizard entering an AMF.