Why hasn't Serini contacted the rest of the Scribbles after being attacked by Xykon?

[gustmes]

I had always thought that the rivalry and conflict between the members of the Order of the Scribble was so great that they wouldn't try to contact each other no matter what. But now Serini explicitly said (1278) she has had the intention of contacting them and "talk them into getting over their dumb squabbles".

So wouldn't it make sense that she should have warned the other Scribbles after Xykon attacks her and steals her diary (which contains info on where the other Gates are)? She even (1270) scoops around Dorukan's dungeon (implying that they were still upholding the "no-contact" agreement) even AFTER the diary got stolen (yeah, at that time Dorukan was already dead but she seems to not have known that).

[Kish]

I had always thought that the rivalry and conflict between the members of the Order of the Scribble was so great that they wouldn't try to contact each other no matter what. But now Serini explicitly said (1278) she has had the intention of contacting them and "talk them into getting over their dumb squabbles".

So wouldn't it make sense that she should have warned the other Scribbles after Xykon attacks her and steals her diary (which contains info on where the other Gates are)? She even (1270) scoops around Dorukan's dungeon (implying that they were still upholding the "no-contact" agreement) even AFTER the diary got stolen (yeah, at that time Dorukan was already dead but she seems to not have known that).
I think the part I bolded is wrong.

Lirian was already dead before Xykon attacked her; by the time she recovered, Dorukan was dead as well. Soon and Girard, of course, had been dead for years, and she demonstrated on Lien and O-Chul exactly how inclined she was to ask Sapphire Guard paladins for help once she realized what Xykon had already been able to do and decided it meant he was unbeatable.

[Precure]

She was shown as unaware that Dorukan is dead in 1270's flashback.

[Fyraltari]

Because Xykon wasn't attacking her Gate at the time. She may not even have realized he had any designs on the Gates.

[gustmes]

Lirian was already dead before Xykon attacked her; by the time she recovered, Dorukan was dead as well. Soon and Girard, of course, had been dead for years, and she demonstrated on Lien and O-Chul exactly how inclined she was to ask Sapphire Guard paladins for help once she realized what Xykon had already been able to do and decided it meant he was unbeatable.

Well, in 1270 it's implied she thinks Dorukan is alive when she is scooping in his dungeon. And even if Soon and Girard were dead, wouldn't it make sense for her to try to contact their successors nonetheless (the Saphire Guard / Girard's family, respectively) to let them know that the diary was stolen and the Gates were in danger?

[Kish]

She was shown as unaware that Dorukan is dead in 1270's flashback.
So she is. Well, I can think of two possibilities then...which both strike me as about equally likely.

1) Her secrecy is an end, not a means. Just as she wasn't going to tell Roy how to really get into the final dungeon and was upset when Vaarsuvius figured it out, she wasn't going to tell Dorukan about Xykon because she just wasn't; coming up with an argument that made that look vaguely rational was ex post facto.

2) She believed that any information she could give Dorukan would have been redundant; when Xykon clashed with her mighty wizard friend he would surely wind up a pile of bone fragments.

(gustmes posted while I was posting. I am not taking back the part about observing how she acted toward Lien and O-Chul, and deriving from that how much information she was interested in giving to the Sapphire Guard. "Wouldn't it make sense for her to..." None of the characters in the comic--or in the world for that matter--are perfectly rational agents; "Would it make sense for her to" is entirely the wrong question to ask. Ask, instead, "Would she, given the personality traits she's shown..." And in this particular case you have the most explicit possible answer: she would rather use drugs to wipe out what information about Xykon and her Gate they have than give them more.)

[Bilbo Baggins]

Second-to-last panel here https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1270.html makes it pretty clear that she thought Dorukan was still in control of the dungeon after Xykon took over.

We dont exactly know what Serini's relationship with the other members was like at the time, but my guess is that it has to do with Xykon being only a potential threat and not yet an imminent one. "Help, there's an epic-level lich bent on world domination here bypassing my defenses" has an urgency to it that's more likely to get them to set aside their differences than "Hey, the guy who killed Lirian almost killed me and might be coming for my gate next." (Or worse, "...and he might be coming for *your* gate next", which would likely get a reply of "screw you, you don't think I can defend my own gate?")

[Precure]

Kraagor - died +60 years ago
Soon - died +47 years ago
Lirian - killed 27 years ago
Girard - died +20 years ago
Serini - attacked 3-to-6 years ago
Dorukan - killed 3 months ago

Looking back to this, Serini and Dorukan were only ones left for more than two decades, so her original plan of "friends together" was already a bust for a long time.

[gbaji]

Well, in 1270 it's implied she thinks Dorukan is alive when she is scooping in his dungeon. And even if Soon and Girard were dead, wouldn't it make sense for her to try to contact their successors nonetheless (the Saphire Guard / Girard's family, respectively) to let them know that the diary was stolen and the Gates were in danger?

It's possible that she didn't realize this until after the events depicted in 1270. She got attacked by Xykon. She didn't necessarily know why though. She did presumably realize that he stole her diary, but maybe that wasn't sufficient for her to assume there was a huge threat (or she assumed they could handle Xykon beter than she could anyway, which actually seems to be a thing).

She assumed Dorukan was still alive in the 1270 flashback. Presumably, sometime after that point is when she realized Xykon killed Dorukan. Whether that was before or after Elan destroyed that gate kinda doesn't matter. At that point, she maybe goes looking and realizes that Lirian is also dead and has been for some time. That's the point she would put 2 and 2 together. Given her animostiy towards Soon and the paladins it's unlikely she would contact them, but it's entirely possible that she did notify Girard's family about this (the only people she seems to have maintained contact with). But then they were all killed in the familicide incident, so that's irrelevant.

Which leaves just her, and her gate. And no one left to help her. The "rules" precluded others coming up and "checking in" on the other's gates and their defenses of those gates. So Serini may have been hesitant at first to violate that rule. That does not preclude someone reaching out to others and requesting that they assist you in defending your own gate though, which is what she was talking about in the latest strip. The contact can go one way (ask for help), but not the other (offer help/assistance). At least, that's how I read this.

[Spartior]

I’ve been wondering the same thing. Supposedly they all had monitoring systems to know when a gate went down so there were 2-7 years where Girard, Dorukan, and Serini were all alive and knew Lirian’s Gate fell but Serini didn’t try to contact them. So what gives?

[gbaji]

I’ve been wondering the same thing. Supposedly they all had monitoring systems to know when a gate went down so there were 2-7 years where Girard, Dorukan, and Serini were all alive and knew Lirian’s Gate fell but Serini didn’t try to contact them. So what gives?

They all presumably had the same monitoring devices. Anything more than telling them what they already knew "that Lirian's gate has fallen" would presumably violate their "no checking up on other gates defenses" rule.

I'm not sure why the burden would be on Serini to do this. She actually left to continue adventuring instead of settling down to just defend her gate, so if anyone she was the least likely to take action when Lirian's gate fell. And everyone probably just assumed Dorukan would deal with it. He's the closest physically and power and relationship wise. When his gate fell as well, was when Shojo did start investigating. It's unclear if Girard's family did anything in response. Probably not. And I suspect that Serini just didn't know what to do at that point at all. She just went back to her gate and has done what she can to defend it since that point.

[Spartior]

They all presumably had the same monitoring devices. Anything more than telling them what they already knew "that Lirian's gate has fallen" would presumably violate their "no checking up on other gates defenses" rule.

I'm not sure why the burden would be on Serini to do this. She actually left to continue adventuring instead of settling down to just defend her gate, so if anyone she was the least likely to take action when Lirian's gate fell. And everyone probably just assumed Dorukan would deal with it. He's the closest physically and power and relationship wise. When his gate fell as well, was when Shojo did start investigating. It's unclear if Girard's family did anything in response. Probably not. And I suspect that Serini just didn't know what to do at that point at all. She just went back to her gate and has done what she can to defend it since that point.

Clearly she was willing to violate that rule provided there is a sufficient threat, she just indicated such. So why didn’t she do it then?

[Ruck]

They all presumably had the same monitoring devices. Anything more than telling them what they already knew "that Lirian's gate has fallen" would presumably violate their "no checking up on other gates defenses" rule.

I'm not sure why the burden would be on Serini to do this. She actually left to continue adventuring instead of settling down to just defend her gate, so if anyone she was the least likely to take action when Lirian's gate fell. And everyone probably just assumed Dorukan would deal with it. He's the closest physically and power and relationship wise. When his gate fell as well, was when Shojo did start investigating. It's unclear if Girard's family did anything in response. Probably not. And I suspect that Serini just didn't know what to do at that point at all. She just went back to her gate and has done what she can to defend it since that point.

While I mostly think your logic is sound, I must point out that Shojo did investigate Lirian's Gate after it fell. Unfortunately, the paladins he sent to do it were ill-suited to the task. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html)

[gbaji]

Clearly she was willing to violate that rule provided there is a sufficient threat, she just indicated such. So why didn’t she do it then?

I thought I made the distinction clear. There's a difference between:

1. Asking for help when your gate is threatened.

2. Showing up to help when you think someone else's is.

The first scenario is allowed under their rules. The second one is explicitly what they were promising not to do. That falls under "checking in", or "helping" someone else with their own method of securing their respective gates.

She is saying that her plan was to ask for help if someone got far enough through the dungeons to represent a threat. That falls into category "1". That's not the same at all as "showiing up univited to help someone else with the defense of their own gates", which falls under category "2" and is not allowed.


While I mostly think your logic is sound, I must point out that Shojo did investigate Lirian's Gate after it fell. Unfortunately, the paladins he sent to do it were ill-suited to the task. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html)

Gah. I tend to be overly verbose. You may have noticed this. So I try (really I do!) to self edit. But it's amazing to me how many times I write 2 or 3 additional paragraphs into a post, then delete them becaused "that's too long and going off on too many tangents", only to have someone then respond by bringing up exactly one of the points I raised initially but then decided not to actually post. Sigh...

Yes. Shojo did investigate when Lirian's gate fell. One could ask why Serini didn't.

Serini just wasn't that invested in the gates then. She was off adventuring, and pretty much left her gate on automatic. I would assume that she would assume that someone else (like Dorukan) would investigate Lirian's gate falling, because they were close. Remember that Lirian's gate fell before Serini was attacked by Xykon. So she had no specific reason nor obligation to check to see what had happened. So her not investigating that gate's destruction makes complete sense. She's not like the guardian of all the gates or anything. If anyone, it was Soon who took it upon himself to go outside his own region and actively work to prevent anyone from even knowing that the gates existed, so it makes a lot of sense that Shojo, following up on that philosphy, would be the one to send people to investigate. Also, one could clearly argue that showing up *after* a gate has already fallen, doesn't violate the rules.

Going beyond Lirian's gate (and to answer follow up questions before they happen, I guess):

We don't know how long it took for Serini to recover from Xykon's attack. We do know that she was in Dorukan's dungeon at the same time the Order was, but was unaware that Dorukan was dead at that time (she just knew that the gate was still intact, and probably assumed "he's the most powerful wizard in like the whole world, so he has to be ok"). She presumably learned soon after that Xykon had killed Dorukan (whether that was before the big Krakaboom or not, we don't know). It was at this point that she presumably became more worried about Xykon and started paying more attention. But at that point, there are only three gates left. Her's, Soon's, and Girard's. She's not likely to contact Soon's people, so that explains that. She may very well have communicated the danger to Girard's family, but it didn't matter. They were wiped out by familicide before they could possibly have done anything about it anyway.

The point is that the rules prevented them from just showing up to "help" someone else with the defense of their respective gates. It did not prevent someone from asking for help with the defense of their own gate though. But by the time Xykon came to her, she was the last gate, and there was no one to ask. There's a parable there somewhere, which highlights the problem with their collective approach to the gates, and the tragedy of their falling out as a group.

I think some people are also missing Serini's inherent semi-inferiority complex when it comes to other members of the group. She seems to be of the mindset that "what can I do? I'm just a rogue". When dealing with world altering stuff like this, she seems to think that others are more qualified than her. An epic wizard. An epic druid. An epic (near epic?) sorcerer illusionist with an entire family dedicated to the cause. An entire order of paladins similarly dedicated to the cause. She's just one lone halfing rogue. She really seems to think that she isn't the right one to "help", so much so that she assumes she's the one who will need to get others to help her. So her methodology of just staying in the background and hoping someone else will save the day seems to be pretty much in line with that particular personality trait. She doesn't see herself as a hero. She's the rogue who travels with heroes and pilfers stuff along the way.

[Lumix19]

I think Ghabji has it. She was willing to send out a call for help but not to break the pact the Scribbler's swore by turning up unannounced.

Even sending a warning might be construed as a "just checking in" breach of their covenant.

[Liquor Box]

She was probably ashamed of having given Xykon directions to all their gates.

[Werbaer]

Dorukan - killed 3 months ago
Desn't matter, but it was like 2 years ago
(6 months before the start of the comic, and it's nearly a year since the prophecy of Belkars death, which surely was a few months after the start of the comic)

[BaronOfHell]

I wonder if she thought that Lord Xykon, the mad sorcerer lich, was just any other random encounter for an epic character such as herself, and she just lucked out this time?

Regarding the loss of her diary, the location of the gates was coded within and if the former assumption is true, she had no reason to suspect Xykon to be involved. I don't even know if she knew he took it.

[Kish]

I wonder if she thought that Lord Xykon, the mad sorcerer lich, was just any other random encounter for an epic character such as herself, and she just lucked out this time?

Regarding the loss of her diary, the location of the gates was coded within and if the former assumption is true, she had no reason to suspect Xykon to be involved. I don't even know if she knew he took it.
I'm going to say that's not it (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1249.html).

[hamishspence]

. I don't even know if she knew he took it.

She knows:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1227.html

[BaronOfHell]

But both of those comic strips reflects her current knowledge, and that doesn't have to align with what she believed back when Xykon had attacked her.

[Ionathus]

Kraagor - died +60 years ago
Soon - died +47 years ago
Lirian - killed 27 years ago
Girard - died +20 years ago
Serini - attacked 3-to-6 years ago
Dorukan - killed 3 months ago

Looking back to this, Serini and Dorukan were only ones left for more than two decades, so her original plan of "friends together" was already a bust for a long time.

Yeah, Serini didn't do a very good job of future-proofing her Gate. Neither did Lirian, or Dorukan in particular, now that I think about it. Only Soon and Girard built systems that would truly outlast them.

Lirian had some sort of defense force, though she was clearly the leader and we didn't see anyone else who was dedicated to protecting Lirian's Gate like she was. When she went down, her Gate's defense went with her. At least she had an elf's lifespan so she would've had time to appoint a replacement once she was getting up there in years.

Dorukan seems to have been the worst offender of all of them. He only had a human lifespan, and he was getting close to the end of it, but he seemingly lived in that big castle all by himself for 27 years after Lirian died. I mean, there were the sylphs and some other creatures maybe, but we didn't see anyone else with leadership traits. He briefly mentions "we" when he talks about trying to resurrect Lirian before the Xykon fight, but we never find out who he was referencing. The rest of the Scribble was dead and the recent Sunny cameo shows that he didn't know about Serini at the time.

I know part of that weirdness is to justify and retcon the events and setup of Book 1 to make it fit once the series developed a plot. But it's still odd. Yet more fuel to put on the "if they had all stayed in touch, maybe 'dying of old age and/or liches' wouldn't have been such a problem" fire.

[Aquillion]

I do wonder if Serini's gate defenses are capable of operating long-term without her. She mentions resetting the traps, and the monsters seem to work for her; this implies that it's like the Dungeon of Dorukan in that after her death it might fall apart a bit. In particular, if the codes have to be manually updated, then anyone who spends a while just exploring all the dungeons will eventually reach the gate.


Kraagor - died +60 years ago
Soon - died +47 years ago
Lirian - killed 27 years ago
Girard - died +20 years ago
Serini - attacked 3-to-6 years ago
Dorukan - killed 3 months ago

Looking back to this, Serini and Dorukan were only ones left for more than two decades, so her original plan of "friends together" was already a bust for a long time.

She could have plausibly asked Soon's paladins and Girard's descendants for help, though I'm not sure she would have been willing to talk to the paladins. And Dorukan was likely one of the most individually powerful members of the Order of the Scribble - he did pretty well 1v1 against Xykon, even if he lost. Even just getting Dorukan + Girard's descendants to help probably would have been enough to beat Xykon.

After Dorukan died she was in trouble, but what could she do at that point?

[yes]

Do we even know how she knows who Xykon is? He doesn't seem the type to properly introduce himself, so how did she know his name? If her only interaction with him was getting ambushed, maybe there's more going on than we realize.

[Precure]

Do we even know how she knows who Xykon is?

No, but Xykon tends to be a blabbermouth occasionally.

[Peelee]

Also she could have found out same way Eugene did.

[Darth Paul]

Also she could have found out same way Eugene did.

Unless she also confused him with Xyklon.