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Odessa333
2023-03-30, 01:49 PM
Hey all!

So I'm the DM, and by player request they are rolling their stats/hp. We've been playing a while now, and I noticed the Paladin has been having trouble hitting lately. I looked at their stats, and their STR is only 14 at level 6. This prompted me to look over everyone's stats, and wondering how (and if) I should try to balance this




Paladin (oath of crown) HP: 42 Total stats: 79
STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON:13 INT:14 WIS:12 CHA:16



Rogue ( mastermind, ranged) HP:34 Total stats:77
8 18 10 12 13 16



Fighter (samurai, polearm master): HP: 62 Total stats: 81
20 12 16 9 12 12



Warlock (celestial, range) HP: 45 Total stats: 76
8 14 14 12 10 18



Cleric (life domain) HP: 51 Total stats: 79
12 8 14 12 20 13



(All in: STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA order if not obvious)







By the total stats, they are not far off, yet the Paladin is not as min maxed. My initial reaction is to try and give them something to boost them up, though I am second guessing myself. If I give an item to raise their main stat too much, is that showing too much favoritism? Should I toss items/rewards to the other players too to bump up their lower stats? I was hoping to hear what others though. Thank you for your time!

Mastikator
2023-03-30, 01:52 PM
Balance it by allowing them fewer long rests :smallsmile:

Players like to feel powerful, it's not a bad thing if they are.

Pex
2023-03-30, 01:52 PM
As long as everyone gets a useful magic item everyone will be happy, and I would question the player who complains the paladin got the gauntlets of ogre power.

Oramac
2023-03-30, 02:00 PM
Give the paladin an item that allows him to use Cha for his melee attacks. Gauntlets, necklace, ring, whatever. The only other player that might want it is the warlock that's already using Cha for attacks, so it'll most likely get handed to the pally.

As for handling it, you've got two options, really.

1) Don't talk to the party. Just hand out stuff and hope for the best. I don't recommend this one.

2) Talk to the party. It's important to do this outside of the game sessions. Let the party know that you want to help the paladin keep up a little bit and might toss him a bone, so to speak.

So far, every time I've used Option 2 it went well, and Option 1 went poorly. Most people understand the game is about having fun. If someone isn't having fun, it's ok to give them a boost.

Unoriginal
2023-03-30, 02:15 PM
Hey all!

So I'm the DM, and by player request they are rolling their stats/hp. We've been playing a while now, and I noticed the Paladin has been having trouble hitting lately. I looked at their stats, and their STR is only 14 at level 6. This prompted me to look over everyone's stats, and wondering how (and if) I should try to balance this




Paladin (oath of crown) HP: 42 Total stats: 79
STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON:13 INT:14 WIS:12 CHA:16



Rogue ( mastermind, ranged) HP:34 Total stats:77
8 18 10 12 13 16



Fighter (samurai, polearm master): HP: 62 Total stats: 81
20 12 16 9 12 12



Warlock (celestial, range) HP: 45 Total stats: 76
8 14 14 12 10 18



Cleric (life domain) HP: 51 Total stats: 79
12 8 14 12 20 13



(All in: STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA order if not obvious)







By the total stats, they are not far off, yet the Paladin is not as min maxed. My initial reaction is to try and give them something to boost them up, though I am second guessing myself. If I give an item to raise their main stat too much, is that showing too much favoritism? Should I toss items/rewards to the other players too to bump up their lower stats? I was hoping to hear what others though. Thank you for your time!

Paladin chose to put their ASI in CHA rather than STR, didn't they?

If that is the case, I wouldn't do anything except allow all players to relocate their ASIs if they feel the need.

Kurt Kurageous
2023-03-30, 02:52 PM
I don't get why they'd want to roll stats in the first place, but that's my feeling.

They want to be powerful? And you wanted them powerful BUT equal? The dice were the worst possible option, because dice are random number generators.

Why not:
a. Let 'em pointbuy with more than 27 points (33? 36? 40?!!?) and extend pointbuy table beyond max 15 using the same progression.

b. Boost standard array by two points each (17,16,15,14,12,10).

Why do you think you have to do anything when you gave them what they asked for? They rolled their dice, they took their chances, but they (or is it you?) don't want to deal with consequences?

JNAProductions
2023-03-30, 02:54 PM
I don't get why they'd want to roll stats in the first place, but that's my feeling.

They want to be powerful? And you wanted them powerful BUT equal? The dice were the worst possible option, because dice are random number generators.

Why not:
a. Let 'em pointbuy with more than 27 points (33? 36? 40?!!?) and extend pointbuy table beyond max 15 using the same progression.

b. Boost standard array by two points each (17,16,15,14,12,10).

Why do you think you have to do anything when you gave them what they asked for? They rolled their dice, they took their chances, but they (or is it you?) don't want to deal with consequences?

Because the game is meant to be fun.
If someone isn't having fun, that's an issue that needs to be corrected.

To the OP-I'll echo the call to talk to the players OOC, and figure out a solution that works for everyone. :)

clash
2023-03-30, 03:09 PM
Is this a perceived problem from you as the DM or has the player actually complained about it? Missing a lot of attacks sucks but maybe they enjoy dealing with their own weaknesses or shortcomings. Talk to the player.

Second, regardless of the first point, have some encounters with enemies with low ac and high hp. The paladin will hit fairly consistently like everyone else and the smite damage should give them a chance to shine.

Gignere
2023-03-30, 03:33 PM
Gauntlets of Ogre Power was designed to fix this. No one but the Paladin would need it. You can also drop other magic items for the other players that would be cool but won’t impact their combat too much.

da newt
2023-03-30, 05:13 PM
1) Talk to the pali. They could have had a 16 in ST (or Dex) but decided to put it into CHA. Ask why and see if they feel behind. They also put 14 in INT - are they new?

2) Let them re-org their stats if they want to. Let them drop 2 INT for +2 ST.

3) I think the gauntlets are a little too heavy handed. They are even better than giving them a +2 weapon because they will add to the effectiveness of every ST weapon and allow plate armor for no additional cost from the Player and allow them to focus on boosting CHA. I'd drop a +1 weapon of their preference before I handed them a ST boosting item.

4) IF you do like the gauntlets as a solution, make it a quest for the party to go out and earn them for the good of the team.

KorvinStarmast
2023-03-30, 06:39 PM
Paladin chose to put their ASI in CHA rather than STR, didn't they?
That's what I did with my Paladin.

KorvinStarmast
2023-03-30, 06:40 PM
Because the game is meant to be fun.
If someone isn't having fun, that's an issue that needs to be corrected.
Nope. If you have a table full of players who get jealous of another player's stats, you have a table problem.

The simplest way to head this off, though, if you roll stats and have players with this issue is that you do this:
everyone rolls an array, and each player can use any rolled array.
Problem, such as it is, solved.

We did that for a recent campaign even though we aren't the kind of table to get jealous over someone else's stats.
Works.

Unoriginal
2023-03-30, 06:52 PM
That's what I did with my Paladin.

Nothing wrong with that, but hitting less than a Paladin who took STR over CHA is the consequence.

Dork_Forge
2023-03-30, 06:52 PM
imo you shouldn't do anything, stat disparity is the great risk of rolling stats, some may come out like gods and the others like sickly commoners. The fact that the Paladin seems to have such terrible Str seems very much to be a player choice not just an artifact of rolling:

- their total array would support a higher primary stat than 14, they just seem to have chosen to prioritise Cha

- You don't say what race or racial ASI rules you're using, but between race and ASI they could have easily leveraged a higher Strength on their own. The fact that they have a 14 Int as a Paladin, even lower than their Wisdom, indicates that they have built a character that doesn't value martial prowess first and foremost.

The player made their bed, why stop them from lying in it when they don't even seem to have come to you with it as an issue? Unless they complain or come to you to change stats, then let them roll with what they chose to have.

JNAProductions
2023-03-30, 06:55 PM
Nope. If you have a table full of players who get jealous of another player's stats, you have a table problem.

There's a difference between "I want to be the most powerful character at the table," which can quite easily be a bad sign; and "I'm not pulling my weight," which is generally much more benign.

Unoriginal
2023-03-30, 07:11 PM
Worth noting that next to a STR 20 Fighter, even a STR 16 Paladin is going to look like they're not hitting much.

Zevox
2023-03-30, 07:22 PM
Nope. If you have a table full of players who get jealous of another player's stats, you have a table problem.
That's not what's happening here though. Per the OP, they noticed that the Paladin was having trouble hitting things, checked everyone's stats out, and found this. There's no indication that the Paladin is acting jealous of the other players. Technically, there's no indication that the Paladin player is unhappy at all, just that DM feels the disparity between the players' stats might be a problem, actually.

KorvinStarmast
2023-03-30, 07:24 PM
That's not what's happening here though. Per the OP, they noticed that the Paladin was having trouble hitting things, checked everyone's stats out, and found this. There's no indication that the Paladin is acting jealous of the other players. Technically, there's no indication that the Paladin player is unhappy at all, just that DM feels the disparity between the players' stats might be a problem, actually.
Which means that the DM is doing the tried and true solution in search of a problem. thing.
Don't Touch Nuthin' is probably the best advice.

kazaryu
2023-03-30, 09:02 PM
Hey all!

So I'm the DM, and by player request they are rolling their stats/hp. We've been playing a while now, and I noticed the Paladin has been having trouble hitting lately. I looked at their stats, and their STR is only 14 at level 6. This prompted me to look over everyone's stats, and wondering how (and if) I should try to balance this




Paladin (oath of crown) HP: 42 Total stats: 79
STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON:13 INT:14 WIS:12 CHA:16



Rogue ( mastermind, ranged) HP:34 Total stats:77
8 18 10 12 13 16



Fighter (samurai, polearm master): HP: 62 Total stats: 81
20 12 16 9 12 12



Warlock (celestial, range) HP: 45 Total stats: 76
8 14 14 12 10 18



Cleric (life domain) HP: 51 Total stats: 79
12 8 14 12 20 13



(All in: STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA order if not obvious)







By the total stats, they are not far off, yet the Paladin is not as min maxed. My initial reaction is to try and give them something to boost them up, though I am second guessing myself. If I give an item to raise their main stat too much, is that showing too much favoritism? Should I toss items/rewards to the other players too to bump up their lower stats? I was hoping to hear what others though. Thank you for your time!

i mean...the first thing you wanna do is determine if the player themself is having a problem. you 'noticed' that they're having trouble hitting lately. but unless you've actually kept count of every attack roll and how often they hit, its just a feeling. They may feel the exact opposite. of course this is just based on how you described the problem, it sounds like its coming from you, not them.

so i'd start by observing them and seeing if they feel like they're underperforming? they clearly deliberately invested in cha over str. so they should expect to not be hitting as much.

from there i'd just...talk to them. i'd try to find an approach that doesn't imply that they're underperforming (if they even are). you don't want to taint how they feel they're doing after all. but some open-ended inquiries like 'hey now that we've been playing a while, how does your character feel?' but i'd try to avoid more specific questions like 'do you feel like you're low strength is hurting?' because that can imply that you think it is...which can color their perspective.

So thats where i'd start. and if they are indeed not having as much fun, i'd give them the opportunity to rebuild their character using the existing (rolled?) ability scores. basically give them the opportunity to 'fix' the problem without having to resort to anything that might be 'unfair'. so like...rearrange their stats, reassign their lvl 4 ASI if they want. that type of stuff. low level ret-conn. because if they *are* feeling down, even something as small as swapping their str and cha could easily make them feel much more powerful.

but uhh..yeah, i mean first step IMO is to make sure there is an actual problem...and in this case an 'actual problem' is defined as a player not having fun because they feel like they're underperforming.


its also worth noting that the paladins closest comparison (the fighter) just got a second ASI. whereas the paladin got aura of protection. so from a pure offense perspective, fighter got a power spike (assuming that lvl 6 ASI was used for STR or PAM) where the paladin didn't.

Pex
2023-03-30, 11:21 PM
If you don't want to solve this by magic item, let/have the player multiclass Hexblade Warlock for an official rule excuse to use his CH as his attack stat. Let him dip for two levels to get Agonizing Eldritch Blast for an awesome range attack too. You don't need to flavor text justify why he's multiclassing. He's still a Paladin in all ways and means of being a Paladin for roleplay flavor text. He's just granted these "Paladin" abilities now and everything else delayed. Multiclassing is just the game mechanical way of doing it.

Mastikator
2023-03-31, 01:43 AM
Nope. If you have a table full of players who get jealous of another player's stats, you have a table problem.

The simplest way to head this off, though, if you roll stats and have players with this issue is that you do this:
everyone rolls an array, and each player can use any rolled array.
Problem, such as it is, solved.

We did that for a recent campaign even though we aren't the kind of table to get jealous over someone else's stats.
Works.

That's a smart idea. I like it. I'm going to use it some time in the future.

Kane0
2023-03-31, 04:59 AM
Alternatively everyone contributes to the same array that everyone then shares. If you have six players, or five and a DM then it's as easy as one 4d6b3 each.

MoiMagnus
2023-03-31, 05:18 AM
Alternatively everyone contributes to the same array that everyone then shares. If you have six players, or five and a DM then it's as easy as one 4d6b3 each.

The only time I've played a long campaign with rolled stats, we used that method and it worked quite well. Randomness without jealousy.
(Well, more precisely, we rolled an array for everyone, then the GM looked at it and say "it's all average numbers, kind of boring, do you want to reroll?", we rerolled and ended up with an array more extreme, and everyone took it)

Sigreid
2023-03-31, 07:33 AM
I personally wouldn't change anything about how I DM. What you're missing, I think, is that it looks like the paladin chose to prioritize cha over str. I wouldn't invalidate his choice as DM.

Keravath
2023-03-31, 08:37 AM
As DM, I wouldn't change the stats. Everyone decided to use rolled stats and honestly the numbers are much more even than might usually be seen with rolled stats.

In addition, the paladin is the only MAD character in the party. They are dependent on both strength and charisma while the rest of the party are strength, dex, charisma and wisdom and the rest just rounding out their characters. So, one might expect the paladin to lag a bit.

The easiest way to address this is through a magic item. If you are concerned about the paladin hitting things then having Gauntlets of Ogre power drop might increase the paladin to hit and damage a bit. The Gauntlets are most useful to the paladin though depending on your group and how greedy/competitive the other players might be, some of them might want the gauntlets for role play reasons.

The cleric might also want them so that they could wear heavy armor without a movement penalty ... but looking at the cleric stats, I am guessing that they may be a dwarf so that heavy armor doesn't slow them down.

Sigreid
2023-03-31, 09:36 AM
Not to mention the missing could be just plain bad luck. I mean, I have gone entire game sessions never rolling above a 7 on the die and other sessions where I never rolled below a 14.

Kurt Kurageous
2023-03-31, 09:52 AM
Because the game is meant to be fun.
If someone isn't having fun, that's an issue that needs to be corrected.

Ok, but is their 'fun' rolling dice? There's a better game for that, I just can't think of the name right now...crap.

Just to Browse
2023-03-31, 09:54 AM
I ran into a similar issue with a rogue at my table. It was their first time playing the game and they maxed out Intelligence while leaving Dex at 11 or 12. At 4th level, I gave them a feat that let them use Int on weapon attacks, which they were very happy with. The effective +2 or +3 to hit & damage was a game-changer for their satisfaction. Our party optimizers also ogled the feat a bit, which I think added to the player's satisfaction--you feel a lot cooler when the PaM+Lucky Fighter tells you that you've got a strong feat.

Based on that experience (sample size of n = 1, of course), I support the suggestion of dropping some gauntlets of ogre power to help the Paladin. I would try to integrate it into your world so it comes across less like a bandaid bandaid item for the paladin, and more like a cool coincidence. Maybe the PCs find it in some rich person's vault that they are raiding, or it's equipped to a demon assassin taking out a hit on the paladin, or a construction site has a handful for their laborers and they offer 1 to the PCs if the PCs can solve the mysterious disappearance of the laborers.

Kurt Kurageous
2023-03-31, 09:58 AM
There's a difference between "I want to be the most powerful character at the table," which can quite easily be a bad sign; and "I'm not pulling my weight," which is generally much more benign.

Both absolutely true considering the role that the paladin fills.

"I want to be the most powerful" is a potential problem player. "I want to be the best at the things my role does" is potentially a good player.

Ionathus
2023-03-31, 10:02 AM
Several thoughts here:

In 5e, a 14 for an attack stat is totally viable at 6th level. It might mentally feel huge, but it only makes a difference from an 18 in 10% of attacks/saves/checks. Encourage your team to work together and give advantage/bonuses if they're feeling like they whiff a lot!
MAD (multi-ability dependent) classes like monks & paladins will "feel" poor stats more than other classes, because they feel like their level-up priorities are pulled in multiple directions. MAD classes are also always happy to get an item that puts them at a 16 or 17 in a stat! 19 is also fine but sometimes feels like a lot.
Honestly your players' stats feel extremely balanced - they're all within a 5 point margin, and in fact they're all above the "average" you'd get from point buy, which is low 70s. I've had players have a 15+ point gap before and that's when we truly started to notice.

Waazraath
2023-03-31, 10:19 AM
Nope. If you have a table full of players who get jealous of another player's stats, you have a table problem.

The simplest way to head this off, though, if you roll stats and have players with this issue is that you do this:
everyone rolls an array, and each player can use any rolled array.
Problem, such as it is, solved.

We did that for a recent campaign even though we aren't the kind of table to get jealous over someone else's stats.
Works.

Very nice idea this. Think I'm gonna use it with roll 3d6 for each stat in the future.

As for the OP: I'm not sure if the differences are big enough to warrent intervention. Yes, str 20 fighter with potentially 4 attacks due to PAM will hit a lot, but that's the whole idea of a fighter. The pally has his spells, steed, healing, etc. Compared to for instance the 18 dex rogue, the pally should usuallly hit more often due to extra attack.

Moreover, 14 str isn't that terrible at level 6. It's a bit lower compared to the average of the party, but by no means terrible.

Gignere
2023-03-31, 12:35 PM
Several thoughts here:

In 5e, a 14 for an attack stat is totally viable at 6th level. It might mentally feel huge, but it only makes a difference from an 18 in 10% of attacks/saves/checks. Encourage your team to work together and give advantage/bonuses if they're feeling like they whiff a lot!
MAD (multi-ability dependent) classes like monks & paladins will "feel" poor stats more than other classes, because they feel like their level-up priorities are pulled in multiple directions. MAD classes are also always happy to get an item that puts them at a 16 or 17 in a stat! 19 is also fine but sometimes feels like a lot.
Honestly your players' stats feel extremely balanced - they're all within a 5 point margin, and in fact they're all above the "average" you'd get from point buy, which is low 70s. I've had players have a 15+ point gap before and that's when we truly started to notice.


In this case though an 18 vs a 14 is more than just a 10% to hit though. Since heavy armor penalties goes away at strength of 15. So this will be better AC and better speed as well.

Sigreid
2023-03-31, 12:38 PM
In this case though an 18 vs a 14 is more than just a 10% to hit though. Since heavy armor penalties goes away at strength of 15. So this will be better AC and better speed as well.

But, it's level 4. At this point it's a choice the player made when he leveled up.

Gignere
2023-03-31, 12:38 PM
But, it's level 4. At this point it's a choice the player made when he leveled up.

It’s level 6.

Rynjin
2023-03-31, 12:47 PM
I mean, you kind of explicitly set yourself up for this exact kind of table imbalance when you had everyone roll stats. This is what you wanted, right? Why try to change it now?

Sigreid
2023-03-31, 01:12 PM
It’s level 6.

Sure, doesn't change my point at all.

CTurbo
2023-03-31, 01:55 PM
For a long time now, my groups have had everybody roll stats and anybody can use anybody's array. It doesn't even matter what the rolling method is, from 3d6 straight, to 5d6 drop the 2 lowest, as long as the party is balanced.

Balance is the most important thing to me. I've played in campaigns where nobody started with higher than a 14 and it was fine. I've played in campaigns where everybody had a 20 or two to start and it was also fine. The only issues I've ever seen is when one player is noticeably "weaker" than the others. A 14 attack stat at level 6 would normally not be much of an issue, but when you have another party member's Fighter sitting there with a 20, it's likely going to be a big deal. The difference between 16 and 20 are pretty noticeable. 14 to 20 would be huge.

I would probably offer him another player's array to use(not counting any level 4 ASI boost they may have taken). I would actually offer every player that option. It wouldn't hurt anything. The other lazier option would be to throw in some Gauntlets of Ogre power. They're only an UNCOMMON magic item so they would be a reasonable magic item to find in loot at level 6/7.

Sigreid
2023-03-31, 03:12 PM
For a long time now, my groups have had everybody roll stats and anybody can use anybody's array. It doesn't even matter what the rolling method is, from 3d6 straight, to 5d6 drop the 2 lowest, as long as the party is balanced.

Balance is the most important thing to me. I've played in campaigns where nobody started with higher than a 14 and it was fine. I've played in campaigns where everybody had a 20 or two to start and it was also fine. The only issues I've ever seen is when one player is noticeably "weaker" than the others. A 14 attack stat at level 6 would normally not be much of an issue, but when you have another party member's Fighter sitting there with a 20, it's likely going to be a big deal. The difference between 16 and 20 are pretty noticeable. 14 to 20 would be huge.

I would probably offer him another player's array to use(not counting any level 4 ASI boost they may have taken). I would actually offer every player that option. It wouldn't hurt anything. The other lazier option would be to throw in some Gauntlets of Ogre power. They're only an UNCOMMON magic item so they would be a reasonable magic item to find in loot at level 6/7.

But in this case its not that he couldn't have a 16, it's that he prioritized another stat. That's what having choices is all about.

Gignere
2023-03-31, 05:23 PM
But in this case its not that he couldn't have a 16, it's that he prioritized another stat. That's what having choices is all about.

How can you know for sure he used it on charisma what if he started with a 12 in strength?

Also don’t see how dropping gauntlets of ogre power obviates choice. Other than the last couple of games where it dropped it ended up going to the cleric since everyone else had at least an 18 in attack stat. It’s still an attunement slot.

KorvinStarmast
2023-03-31, 05:49 PM
Very nice idea this. Think I'm gonna use it with roll 3d6 for each stat in the future. You do you. :smallwink: The default roll for this edition is 4d6 keep best 3.

Sigreid
2023-03-31, 07:16 PM
You do you. :smallwink: The default roll for this edition is 4d6 keep best 3.

I've done 3d6 in order. It was fun because it was a challange.

Leon
2023-03-31, 09:12 PM
Unless the paladin's player has expressed that they are feeling its a problem you don't balance it just because you observed it. If your really feeling like doing something talk to the player and find out what they think about how things are going and then sort out something that suits your group of players if it is an actual issue.

Angelalex242
2023-03-31, 09:43 PM
The next boss happens to have gauntlets of ogre power.

Problem, if a problem it is, is solved.

Bundin
2023-04-01, 03:36 AM
If anything (when player states he's not having as much fun), I'd just drop a +1 weapon in a flavour that the paladin likes. That'll help right now, but only in the area that you're seeing a problem: hitting things. There'll be no spillover effects to skills, no stacking the bonus with other magic weapons (which the gauntlets would allow).

Player made a choice to have 14 str, cha is more than decent, that should have some consequences.

If player is very new, allowing to reassign array/points and/or the level 4 ASI could also be an option, but that discussion really should have taken place in session 0 or when hitting level 4.

Mastikator
2023-04-01, 06:06 AM
In this case though an 18 vs a 14 is more than just a 10% to hit though. Since heavy armor penalties goes away at strength of 15. So this will be better AC and better speed as well.

With a longsword 18 strength vs 14 strength is a lot actually. It's +2 damage and +10% to hit, it works out to roughly 40% more damage. Even 16 strength is 20% more damage. A +1 or a +2 in a bounded context does a lot.

Unoriginal
2023-04-01, 06:18 AM
Could set up a situation where the players can choose to pursue the magic item if they want, but don't have to.

Ex: pit fighting challenge where whoever defeats the champion in a 1 vs 1 match recieve Gauntlets of Ogre Power as prize.

That way the PC who fights the champion gets to feel awesome, and the prize is useful.

If I were to do anything in game regarding OP's situation (which doesn't exclude just talking with the concerned people out of game, far from it), I'd probably do that.

Angelalex242
2023-04-01, 12:33 PM
In the event of 'whoever fights the Champion..."

Why wouldn't the 20 STR fighter fight the battle, then hand the gauntlets to his pal, because the Gauntlets don't help him. (20>19).

Now, if it's a belt of Stone Giant Strength (23), then the Fighter might be tempted to keep it himself.

5eNeedsDarksun
2023-04-01, 01:07 PM
Hey all!

So I'm the DM, and by player request they are rolling their stats/hp. We've been playing a while now, and I noticed the Paladin has been having trouble hitting lately. I looked at their stats, and their STR is only 14 at level 6. This prompted me to look over everyone's stats, and wondering how (and if) I should try to balance this




Paladin (oath of crown) HP: 42 Total stats: 79
STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON:13 INT:14 WIS:12 CHA:16



Rogue ( mastermind, ranged) HP:34 Total stats:77
8 18 10 12 13 16



Fighter (samurai, polearm master): HP: 62 Total stats: 81
20 12 16 9 12 12



Warlock (celestial, range) HP: 45 Total stats: 76
8 14 14 12 10 18



Cleric (life domain) HP: 51 Total stats: 79
12 8 14 12 20 13



(All in: STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA order if not obvious)







By the total stats, they are not far off, yet the Paladin is not as min maxed. My initial reaction is to try and give them something to boost them up, though I am second guessing myself. If I give an item to raise their main stat too much, is that showing too much favoritism? Should I toss items/rewards to the other players too to bump up their lower stats? I was hoping to hear what others though. Thank you for your time!

As others have said the players rolled, so you're always going to have some of this and to some extent the players are going to have to be OK with it. While it wasn't the 'problem' you mentioned, I was a little surprised the Paly only has a 13 Con when there's a 14 in Int. Int is probably the most useless stat if you're not a caster and the Paly's hp is comparatively low, so I might give the player a chance to swap those stats.

14 wouldn't normally be terrible, but vs 18+ for the rest of the players' attack stats I can see there is going to be more variation. Additionally the fighter has just got the extra ASI, so the gap there is as big as it's going to get; this is a feature of fighters, so let that player shine for the time. I tend to prioritize Cha for my Palys, mainly for the aura, so I don't think this is a 'weak character'. You've got a Fighter and probably a Cleric who are going to benefit from the aura in most fights, and as this ability has just come online at 6th level, so players are just beginning to see the benefit.

I do try to balance my characters somewhat with magic, and I'd consider it here, but there's no need to bring the Paly in line with the Fighter in terms of attack stat. I'd disagree with those saying 'Gauntlets of Ogre Power', as that turns what's balanced as a MAD class into a SAD one and leaves the fighter in the dust. The fighter... fights and isn't going to get a whole bunch better at it any time soon; the Paly is a far more balanced and useful class, getting additional auras and 3rd level spells soon, so even a +1 weapon to close the gap a bit should be fine if you think the overall power of the characters is out of line.

Unoriginal
2023-04-01, 01:09 PM
In the event of 'whoever fights the Champion..."

Why wouldn't the 20 STR fighter fight the battle, then hand the gauntlets to his pal, because the Gauntlets don't help him. (20>19)..

I don't see any problem with that. Sounds pretty nice.

But the Paladin may want to face the champion themselves.

Demonslayer666
2023-04-05, 03:43 PM
I would not try to balance the stats. They are already balanced.

You should not focus on hitting alone.

The paladin does better than the fighter in other aspects, and those aspects should be brought to the spotlight to help the paladin shine.