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View Full Version : DM Help Fossilized triceratops skeleton: How would you have handled it?



Jay R
2023-03-30, 10:38 PM
My players did something cool last weekend. I didn’t know the rule on it, so I made a DM call and allowed it to work – slowly.

I’m not second-guessing my decision. Running a game happens in real time, and decisions are extemporaneous. That’s fine. Besides, the players thought it was awesome.

But because I’m new to running 3.5e, I thought I’d ask what the rules (and/or other DMs) would suggest.

The party is five 6th levels and one 5th level, plus a 4th level cleric cohort, who had just joined the party. The players have been D&D players off and on since the 1980s, but have never played 3.5e before.

They were being attacked by a necromancer who would then escape and look for bigger corpses and bones to animate. [He was actually after the cohort.] The first attack was ten humanoid skeletons and ten humanoid zombies – a mix of humans, elves (sort of), hobbits, and kobolds. I two turns, the cleric had destroyed them all, but they’d gotten a little experience – enough to know that skeletons have DR 5 / bludgeoning and zombies have DR 5 / slashing.

The next encounter was two owlbear zombies and 3 owlbear skeletons. Then 2 minotaur zombies and 2 minotaur skeletons.

When they finally cornered the necromancer, he had found a fossilized triceratops skeleton. [Their reaction when I put the mini out was quite gratifying. It’s 2½ inches high and 5½ inches long, plus the tail.]

I was running it like a normal triceratops skeleton, but with higher AC because it was made from a fossil. The rogue’s first physical attack would have hit normal skeleton, so I had the rogue make an INT check. He rolled fairly high, and I announced, “It did no damage. It felt like it should have, but the thing is harder than it should be. It’s like you’re hitting stone, not bone.”

So one of them pulled out his wand of stone shape, and flew over the skeleton. He tried to reshape its neck vertebrae so they wouldn’t hold his head.

That’s a really cool idea, but I had no idea whether it should work. The skeleton is held together by negative energy more than by bone and sinew. I quickly looked up the spell stone shape to see if it mentioned whether it affected stone golems or earth elementals. That would give me an idea of what to do, but the rule didn’t mention it.

So I decided it would work, but be difficult, because the spell was fighting the negative energy of the animate dead spell. After his first attempt, the head was held at a funny angle and I gave it a penalty for its gore attack. A second casting, and I decided he couldn’t gore at all, and it tried to trample them. After the third use of stone shape, I had the head fall off. [And the ones near the front had to make a reflex save.] Finishing off a headless skeleton whose only attack was a now non-existent gore wasn’t difficult.

Again, I am not second-guessing my decision. But I would like to learn what other DMs would have done, and if there is a rule that would have helped guide me.

So what would you have done?

Thanks for any comments you have to offer.

pabelfly
2023-03-30, 11:31 PM
I'm not exactly sure what the rules are but its a cool story and it sounds like your players had fun, I'd allow it too.

YelrisRevalin
2023-03-31, 12:31 AM
Stone Shape specifies a "Existing piece of stone", one could argue that a body part of an ambulatory being such as a Golem, Elemental or Fossilized Skeleton isn't a "piece of stone", especially since the non-wand version of the spell requires you to touch the material component to the stone, with the component being clay molded into the desired shape.

But in cases like this, I think throwing out the RAW for a challenge that results in a cool story is the best call personally. Making it work after multiple tries is definitely a fun middle ground, makes for a more dynamic boss fight.

DrMartin
2023-03-31, 12:37 AM
yeah, you did good.

aside from the "good story" angle, which you really cannot control beforehand, you did something better: you rewarded players creativity and engaging with the story and setting. You told them that when they pay attention to your description they get more anchors to engage with the game

Crake
2023-03-31, 02:09 AM
Well, your first mistake was buffing the triceratops. Fossils are weaker than bones (bone being about 4 times stronger than stone according to a quick google search), so its AC should have dropped, though I would probably leave it’s DR, as that more stems from it’s shape I think.

Secondly, you’re right in that the bones arent held together physically, so messing with a vertebrae would at best, do some damage by removing a section of the skeleton

Tzardok
2023-03-31, 02:42 AM
Living bone is. Dead bone gets kinda brittle after a while.

By the way, Libris Mortis includes a template for animated fossiles.

Crake
2023-03-31, 09:52 AM
Living bone is. Dead bone gets kinda brittle after a while.

That's true, though skeletons can be made from both, and have no difference in stats, but even dead bone is harder than fossils, that's why archaeologists have to be VERY careful when excavating fossils so as to not break them.

Jay R
2023-03-31, 09:55 AM
By the way, Libris Mortis includes a template for animated fossils.

I'm aware. But I couldn't use it in this story. That template assumes a skeleton that has been undead for a long time. And it can't be created by a 7th level cleric when cornered in a cave.

Edit: Oops. My mistake; I was confusing it with another one I found that was an undead first and fossilized later. But a Revived Fossil from Libris Mortis still can't be made quickly by a 7th level cleric. I did my research before building him.

Palanan
2023-03-31, 12:45 PM
I’ll agree with most here that you handled this encounter quite well.

Fossilized bone is stone by definition, so I’d definitely allow the wand to work. I probably would’ve allowed it to work more quickly, but I really like your idea of the spell struggling against the necromantic energy.

Also, I want that Triceratops mini. Did you 3D print it, or is it available somewhere? Because now I’m feeling the absence of a fossilized Triceratops skeleton in my campaign.

Jay R
2023-03-31, 01:39 PM
Also, I want that Triceratops mini. Did you 3D print it, or is it available somewhere? Because now I’m feeling the absence of a fossilized Triceratops skeleton in my campaign.

It's a plastic toy; here it is (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/985965474939634627?q=triceratops+skeleton+toy&prds=eto:14501186359840862310_0;130963918790621215 58_0;8237089497393944996_0,pid:211414133830747773, rsk:PC_6477020307322144372&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnu4Te5ob-AhV0mGoFHRx4AM0Q9pwGCAY). I found it at Albertson's during the Halloween season. I've never seen another one since.

I suggest never letting your players see it until the moment it goes on the table. I kept it hidden for a year and a half until the right opportunity.

Akal Saris
2023-03-31, 06:20 PM
I think you handled it perfectly. I'd rather encourage the creative use of spells than punish players for trying it.

On the fly, I probably would have had the spell work as a Slow spell on the skeletal triceratops, with a second casting working as a brief Hold Monster.

Chronos
2023-03-31, 07:25 PM
Strict RAW, the skeleton would just have been a normal skeleton, and the spell would have done nothing.

Rule of Cool, both seem kosher.