How many people record their individual hit dice values?

[Segev]

When I roll my HD (which I prefer to do), I tend to record my hit points as follows (for example, at level 5, for a straight sorcerer with 14 constitution):

Hit Points: 26 = (6+2)+(5+2)+(3+2)+(4+2)

Each parenthetical element is one level's worth of hit points, showing the hit die's rolled value plus the 2 from Constitution.

Obviously, there's no point to this if you just take the flat value offered, since that's calculable from just looking at what classes you took at what levels. But if you roll, do you record the rolls like this, or just keep track of the total, forgetting which hit dice gave you which value?

I ask this because I was pondering a magical potion that allows you, at the end of your next long rest, to roll as many of your hit dice as you like, and replace their old values with the new ones (for better or for worse). But, obviously, you'd need to actually know which hit dice had which values to be able to do that properly, unless you were rerolling all but your first one. An alternate way to construct the potion's mechanics would be to have you reroll all but your level 1 HD (which is already maximum value if you use the core rules for 5e) and re-sum your hp. This would be a risky move if you had been taking the flat value, since it is .5 higher per HD than the average of rolling, but if you'd been rolling, it could be worth the risk if you'd rolled poorly a lot, or if you did have them recorded and could pick the below-average rolls to risk it on.

I'm unsure just how to value such a potion; what rarity-value should it have?

Would a potion that also worked as a full heal that forced you to reroll all your hit dice but your first one be worth the risk if you were happy with your hp total? (For clarity, this variation would, instead of working when you finish a long rest, work immediately upon drinking, and also set your current hp to your new maximum, so if you chugged it while at 1 hp, it almost certainly would also be a massive heal effect, even if you rolled poorly and now had lousy max hp. And could have you luck out and roll better max hp than you had before.)

[Ionathus]

I'm actually surprised I don't do this. I'm the kind of player who tracks every attack his PC makes, recording what I did and averaging the damage and all that every turn. I just like looking back at the fight and remembering a good turn 2, a crappy turn 4, etc.

This is honestly one of the reasons I usually take average, though. It's less about losing the numbers game, and more about keeping the math simple. If I take average, I never have to wonder if I forgot to roll for HP at level-up, and I never have to try to derive backwards. But I might steal this if I start rolling for HP!

As for your potion/magic item idea - I don't think it's ultimately that impactful. Sure, you could have really good or really bad rolls, but the more dice you add, the more likely it gets that you'll roll pretty average. So this could be swingier for a PC at 4th level than it would be for a PC at 12th.

I'd probably just play with a flat bonus to HP instead. It's a single-use permanent power-up, and whoever drinks this potion gets +1 max HP per hit die. If you want to make it a risk-v-reward scenario, you can have them flip a coin: heads +1 per level, tails -1 per level. That's probably cleaner and more likely to give you the fun moment you're looking for. Because as-is, your potion stands a very real risk of having somebody hem and haw about drinking it, ultimately decide to, get all psyched up, then roll a bunch of dice and do a bunch of math and say "okay...I gain 2 max HP."

Of course, it COULD be really interesting. There's always a chance to get close to max or close to min. But if this is a roll that's only ever gonna happen once, you should make a plan for every eventuality: really good, really bad, or really average - and accept that it will probably be closest to really average.

[Tanarii]

Just make it an all HD potion.

And if Hit Points are being rolled, such a potion would be incredibly valuable at low levels, with decreasing value as you leveled and hit points trended towards the mean.

Eg. By 10th level a Barbarian (wildest dice) has only a 28% chance of being more +/-1 hp/level off the average of 6.5
Meanwhile a 10th level sorc/Wizard has only a 7% chance of being off by more than +/-1 hp/level from the average 3.5

Of course, if you're *already* below the mean it'll take (potentially much) longer to trend towards the original mean, and odds are you'll remain significantly below the curve for your entire career, so it still holds plenty of value for those who are at Tier 2 and well behind the curve.

E.g if you rolled snake eyes for a sorc/Wizard first two levels, your new expected level 10 hps are 30 instead of 35.

[Segev]

Yeah, the original conception of it assumes you record your HD for every level (and the realization that maybe people don't is what sparked the question in the title of the thread). I was thinking about it as a potion people could use to selectively reroll low HD.

So, if that 10th level barbarian had, say:

114=(12+5)+(5+5)+(8+5)+(6+5)+(12+5)+(2+5)+(4+5)+(1 +5)+(12+5)+(2+5)

He might choose to reroll only the 2, 1, and 2, or he might choose to reroll everything under a 7. A sample rerolling of just the three really low ones would result in (as I just rolled it now):

124=(12+5)+(5+5)+(8+5)+(6+5)+(12+5)+(6+5)+(4+5)+(7 +5)+(12+5)+(2+5); Yes, I rolled a "2" on the last die again!

If he rerolled every die under 7, with the caveat that I'm keeping the above rerolls to treat this as close to a "if he'd made the cohice differently" as possible...

131=(12+5)+(12+5)+(8+5)+(11+5)+(12+5)+(3+5)+(2+5)+ (7+5)+(12+5)+(2+5); Had two worse rolls, and a couple REALLY nice ones.


Not sure that one example roll comparison makes much difference, but I hope it serves as a reasonable example of what I was imagining the potion doing when I very first came up with it, before I started thinking about logistics of how it would actually be run.

[Willie the Duck]

I write them down (although my method for the same situation would be "Level 5; Hit Points:26 [6,5,3,4+(5x2)]"). In my case, it is a holdover from days gone by when you could lose a level, thus it mattering when you rolled what (also in AD&D we ruled that a wish could let you re-roll a level's hit die and take the roll if it was better).

This potion sounds like a lot of messing around with numbers to very limited benefit. If you happen to have rolled low consistently you get a reasonable chance at pretending you rolled average or better for a day. That's... fine, I guess? And as your normal hp advance towards average through to good, the chance of a beneficial results becomes more unlikely and more limited. I guess I like the notion that it benefits the worst-off the most, but it still seems like something that would be fun if and only if your group is the kind that really loves the dice and numbers and likelihood-calculations part of the game.

[Tanarii]

If you can selectively reroll hit points, it has incredible value, and that value goes up as you gain levels. Possibly artifact level potion.

[Willie the Duck]

Wait, I was under the assumption that this was a short-term benefit (since it is a potion). I see now OP's final paragraph implies otherwise. Why is this a potion?

[Draconi Redfir]

my group usually either does full hit-die or half hit-die, so no rolling involved. so don't really have anything to track personally.

[Segev]

Wait, I was under the assumption that this was a short-term benefit (since it is a potion). I see now OP's final paragraph implies otherwise. Why is this a potion?

I'm open to other form factor ideas.

[nickl_2000]

I never record my individual HD values, but I also take the straight number. We do much of our levelling away from the table between sessions there is 0 risk of cheating or being accused of cheating when I take the straight number.

Also taking the straight number gives you above average results, so it is slightly more optimal.

[False God]

My current mod of D&D (applicable to all editions) makes it pointless because your HP is "Con Score+Full HD at 1st, then Full HD every level, no Con mod." It comes out close across the board, though much higher at the start (which I prefer). I've found it infinitely easier to tell people they gain a flat point value each level than to roll dice and add modifiers and recalculate modifiers.

But otherwise I do in systems where losing levels is a possibility, but not others.

The value of rerolling HD to potentially get a better result is more one of player convenience. Frankly if you're going to allow rerolling, I'd utilize some form of training rules, ya know, retaking the class to get a better grade. But, again, I don't see the value in rolling HD to begin with.

[Willie the Duck]

I'm open to other form factor ideas.

I just want to know if there's a reasoning behind it. I was just thrown by it and assumed we were talking about a temporary boost. D&D (certainly WotC-era D&D) makes potions be temporary, but there's not specific reason they have to be.

[Segev]

I just want to know if there's a reasoning behind it. I was just thrown by it and assumed we were talking about a temporary boost. D&D (certainly WotC-era D&D) makes potions be temporary, but there's not specific reason they have to be.

Nah, just seemed like the most logical one-shot form factor to me. Similar items include potions of longevity.

[Theodoxus]

Wait, healing potions are temporary?

[Ionathus]

Yeah, the original conception of it assumes you record your HD for every level (and the realization that maybe people don't is what sparked the question in the title of the thread). I was thinking about it as a potion people could use to selectively reroll low HD.

So, if that 10th level barbarian had, say:

114=(12+5)+(5+5)+(8+5)+(6+5)+(12+5)+(2+5)+(4+5)+(1 +5)+(12+5)+(2+5)

He might choose to reroll only the 2, 1, and 2, or he might choose to reroll everything under a 7. A sample rerolling of just the three really low ones would result in (as I just rolled it now):

124=(12+5)+(5+5)+(8+5)+(6+5)+(12+5)+(6+5)+(4+5)+(7 +5)+(12+5)+(2+5); Yes, I rolled a "2" on the last die again!

If he rerolled every die under 7, with the caveat that I'm keeping the above rerolls to treat this as close to a "if he'd made the cohice differently" as possible...

131=(12+5)+(12+5)+(8+5)+(11+5)+(12+5)+(3+5)+(2+5)+ (7+5)+(12+5)+(2+5); Had two worse rolls, and a couple REALLY nice ones.


Not sure that one example roll comparison makes much difference, but I hope it serves as a reasonable example of what I was imagining the potion doing when I very first came up with it, before I started thinking about logistics of how it would actually be run.

See, I still think this illustrates my point exactly: that's a ton of math and kludge for anywhere from 10-17 extra HP, and it only works if your PCs track their HP rolls (which I have never heard of before this post).

The idea of rerolling a low HP roll is fun, but I think you'd get that same feeling you're looking for by just giving them a potion that permanently increases your HP by 2 HD (or however many you want). Same overall effect (~10-20 more HP for most classes), but it doesn't rely on PCs having tracked their HP rolls which, and I cannot stress this enough, I have never seen happen ever. A cleaner, simpler approach still feels like it would be more objectively fun. But you know your players better than we do.

[Rukelnikov]

I used to this back in 3e where Con damage was a thing, and needing to know if I go from 12 Con to 6 Con, how much max HP am I losing.

I haven't done it in 5e cause I never felt a need for that, but if there were rules interacting with the individual HP rolls, I wouldn't have a problem going back to record them.

I do get the impression most players aren't as interested in the nitty gritty, and while they'd like a potion that makes you hardier (either temporarily or permanently) it's likely they'll prefer simple mechanics, my group for sure would prefer that outside of myself and the other usual DM.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I would be perfectly happy to record them if asked. But in general I only write them down if I'm making a character at a higher level. So on the same paper that has my stat rolls.