What Are Dragons Weak Against?

[Bartmanhomer]

Hello, I have a question regarding true dragons' weaknesses. What are true dragons (metallic, chromatic, and gems dragons) weak against? :smile:

[pabelfly]

Many dragons have a weakness to a specific element or alignment-based smite, so it's hard without knowing the specific Dragon.

Rangers or characters with Favored Enemy can hopefully pick up Favored Enemy: Dragons, which work on all Dragons. Favored Power Attack is also great for increasing your power attack multiplier, but means you're even more dependent on having to face specific enemies to work well and have less resources to use to fix your damage against non Favored enemies.

[Inevitability]

Dragons have excellent ability scores in general, but their dexterity tends to hover around 10. Effects that damage, drain, or penalize dexterity can trivialize dealing with them, especially if the dragon has no time to protect against it with magic, or if the effect targets (touch) AC rather than saves.

More broadly, dragons' hoards are a bit of a psychological vulnerability. A dragon tends to care about its hoard, and even if you can't kill the dragon, you might be able to force negotiations by plausibly threatening to destroy its most valued treasures.

[pabelfly]

There's also the Dragondoom (melee weapon) and Dragon Hunter (ranged weapon) enchants that specifically work against dragons. Magic Item Compendium, p33.

[Maat Mons]

Point blank annihilation, same as most things (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/04/17/episoe-409-corrective-measures/).

[Kitsuneymg]

Shivering Touch. Usually effectively one-shots a dragon if you can empower or maximize it.

[Chronos]

Another psychological weakness is their hubris: Every dragon is convinced that it's the Greatest Thing Ever and nothing could possibly threaten it. This isn't as crippling as it is for a human, since, well, they usually are, but it can lead a dragon to neglect basic precautions and contingencies.

[Biggus]

(Ranged) touch attacks which don't allow saves (touch AC is very low compared to other types of AC, except a couple of varieties)

Having their buffs dispelled (caster level is usually low relative to CR, although again there are a couple of exceptions)

Edit: the spell Hide From Dragons (SpC) makes it impossible for them to perceive a whole team of you until you attack. They don't get a save, none of their special senses work, it just works automatically.

[Darg]

(Ranged) touch attacks which don't allow saves (touch AC is very low compared to other types of AC, except a couple of varieties)

Having their buffs dispelled (caster level is usually low relative to CR, although again there are a couple of exceptions)

Edit: the spell Hide From Dragons (SpC) makes it impossible for them to perceive a whole team of you until you attack. They don't get a save, none of their special senses work, it just works automatically.

Hide from dragons depends on the dragon too. If it's a messy dragon with coins just scattered everywhere it'd be really difficult to not step on part of their hoard.

Dragons are weak against effects and things that stop or prevent flight.

[Fero]

Shivering Touch. Usually effectively one-shots a dragon if you can empower or maximize it.

To add to shivering touch, La***'s Finger Darys from BoVD (3.0) is a corrupt spell avaliable to all evil prepared casters and does something similar at range.

You can also try to exploit the dragon's relatively low reflex save. If the dragon is small enough, Ot***'s Resiliant Sphere can trap it for an extended duration. If it is flying, Wingbind from SC can ruin its day. If you can get it to read something Sepia Snake Sigil is also devastating.

Entangling effects can also be potent against dragons due to the rules on winged flight. On a similar note, a Tanglefoot Bag (likely delivered with Launch Item from SC) forces a large or smaller flyer to make a save or fall and is a good tool to use against dragons, especially at lower levels.

As a final note, and only because it happened for my mouse wizard, you can always try magic Jar and hope the dragon rolls a one.

[Inevitability]

To add to shivering touch, La***'s Finger Darys from BoVD (3.0) is a corrupt spell avaliable to all evil prepared casters and does something similar at range.

You can also try to exploit the dragon's relatively low reflex save. If the dragon is small enough, Ot***'s Resiliant Sphere can trap it for an extended duration. If it is flying, Wingbind from SC can ruin its day. If you can get it to read something Sepia Snake Sigil is also devastating.

Entangling effects can also be potent against dragons due to the rules on winged flight. On a similar note, a Tanglefoot Bag (likely delivered with Launch Item from SC) forces a large or smaller flyer to make a save or fall and is a good tool to use against dragons, especially at lower levels.

As a final note, and only because it happened for my mouse wizard, you can always try magic Jar and hope the dragon rolls a one.

Why are we censoring otiluke and lahm now.

[Fero]

Why are we censoring otiluke and lahm now.

I don't think it is a forum policy, just a personal choice. Also, it saves me from trying to remember how to spell all of the proper nouns.

[Anthrowhale]

Side note: Favored Enemy: Arcanists superior to Favored Enemy: Dragon in most cases since it covers all dragons able to cast spells (~= those you are concerned about).

A cleric using Surge of Fortune + Sense Weakness + a Vorpal Weapon can kill even a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon.

[Ramza00]

Hello, I have a question regarding true dragons' weaknesses. What are true dragons (metallic, chromatic, and gems dragons) weak against? :smile:

I am getting abstract here, but since Dragons represent greed and avarice … they have two main weakness

a single adventure that is good at sneaking and see their weakness better than the dragon can, or a single adventure good at riddles and can sleuth the knots that are in all of humanity (even though the dragon is monster kind.)

or the opposite extreme which is the entire town at once, or an entire army at once.

—————

At the same time the solitary adventurer or the entire army is precisely what a dragon is strongest against. Think of it as a story, a repetition compulsion, where you hear the story again and again and via changing one detail this time the story occurs differently. This single adventurer is more special, smarter, wiser, more humble and thus it is the Kairos time (the right key moment time, the opportunistic time) that in turns slays seasonal time … a Seasonal time that feels like an Eternal Time / Eternity.

Likewise a town may perform a successful rebellion against a tyrant when previous rebellions failed.

That’s the thing about Dragons in stories, their weakness change depending on what they represent. If the Dragon is a guardian of a treasure, then the hero must show they are worthy or there is a greater need than greed. Likewise if the Dragon is a tyrant who is a terrorist, or represents obscene wealth of opulent kings living in a castle, this too has its own negation and reason it falls / perishes.

[Thunder999]

Many are weak to an opposing element, anything with the Fire subtype has a corresponding vulnerability to cold, reverse that for the cold subtype.

Basically all dragons are vulnerable to dexterity damage thanks to relatively low dexterity.

As a consequence of that and their large size they're similarly vulnerable to all manner of touch attacks.

Lahms Finger Darts and (preferable Reach) Shivering Touch both combine those two to bring them down with ease.

An Orb of fire/cold etc. focused build can capitalise on the elemental weakness and touch AC weakness to similar results.

And yeah, there's the usual Bane weapons like any creature.

[Remuko]

I don't think it is a forum policy, just a personal choice. Also, it saves me from trying to remember how to spell all of the proper nouns.

well in that case why not just drop the names entirely? if you said finger darts and resilient sphere, im pretty sure we'd all know what you meant.

[paladinn]

A paladin's sword to the brain, if s/he is smiting :)

Love the new D&D movie!

[thorr-kan]

Incorporeal creatures. Any successful Master of Shrouds should be able to bring some hurt to a dragon.

[Fero]

well in that case why not just drop the names entirely? if you said finger darts and resilient sphere, im pretty sure we'd all know what you meant.

Mostly in case someone who is not familiar with the spell will have an easier time finding it. Knowing the first letter can help find a spell in a book.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Dragons don't exist in our reality. That must mean that dragons are killed by reality.

[Thurbane]

We were playing RHoD, and our Warmage one-shotted a red dragon with a Sudden Empowered Orb of Cold.

We got lucky - he rolled well on damage, dragon was vulnerable to cold, and the dragon rolled a 2 on it's "save vs. massive damage" roll.

[Maat Mons]

Arguably, dragons are a medieval misinterpretation of dinosaur fossils. That would mean that dragons are weak against Manhattan-sized asteroids.

[Rebel7284]

Dragons are weak to dragon, ice, and fairy. Or so I hear.

[Zancloufer]

Flight. Dragons biggest strength is their flight, as such stopping them from flying (away) is your best bet. In my experience the only times I've seen my players [cleanly] defeat an actually threatening Dragon is when they locked it down.

Touch attacks might work against lower level dragons, or ones that the DM/Module purposely hamstrings but once they get 2nd level spells Scintillating Scales happens are their AC becomes YES for anything that isn't full BAB.

As such once Dragons hit 15HD+ anything that isn't a lock-down of their maneuverability is pointless. Remember; they [can] have flyby attack, a Breath Weapon and a fly speed that is easily 4-10x your speed. Put them somewhere they won't/can't run from and hope you can survive their full attack when it's unloaded.

[RNightstalker]

Adventurers...dragons are weak against well prepared adventurers...I mean look at the thread we're on lol

[Chronos]

To be fair, most monsters are weak to Manhattan-sized asteroids.