how to use charm person

[Mahar]

Hey so I am playing a changeling wizard rouge character that is pretending to be a bard (long backstory don't ask) and I was wondering if there is any way to use charm person (or something close to it) on someone without them knowing afterwards without a) taking the school of enchantment archtype for wizards or b) disguising my self because I already thought of that one. I also want to avoid taking any levels in bard because none of the players but the DM know that my character is not actually a bard and I want to see how far I can keep the lie going with out becoming an actual bard.

[NecessaryWeevil]

I suppose there's
a) Don't let them get a good look at you in the first place (dim light, telepathic speech, hide in a bush...)
or b) Modify Memory.

[Phhase]

Metamagic Adept Subtle Spell might help.

[Lunali]

Metamagic Adept Subtle Spell might help.

Not really, once the spell ends, the effect of the spell causes them to know what you did.

I think the better approach would be to not use the spell and instead just be naturally charming. Expertise in appropriate stats helps. Unfortunately wizard doesn't have access to enhance ability so you'd have to pick up another class or find another route to get advantage on cha checks.

[SharkForce]

Hey so I am playing a changeling wizard rouge character that is pretending to be a bard (long backstory don't ask) and I was wondering if there is any way to use charm person (or something close to it) on someone without them knowing afterwards without a) taking the school of enchantment archtype for wizards or b) disguising my self because I already thought of that one. I also want to avoid taking any levels in bard because none of the players but the DM know that my character is not actually a bard and I want to see how far I can keep the lie going with out becoming an actual bard.

"something close to it" is a lot easier to make good use of.

Enhance ability (use the charisma option) takes care of the advantage on charisma checks. So does getting someone else to help.

Depending on how your DM reads the charm person spell, this may entirely replace the effect, and is probably significantly better (no saving throw, works on multiple people, less likely to make the guards want to murder you... good stuff!)

However, if your DM reads the charm person spell as setting the target's Attitude to "Friendly", that is much harder to duplicate. You may wish to try "flattery" and/or "bribery" for that effect. Alternately, a good disguise can help here just like it can help when using the actual charm person spell.

[Mastikator]

Use it in combination with Disguise Self. Frame someone.

[lall]

I was wondering if there is any way to use charm person (or something close to it) on someone without them knowing afterwards
You’ll know afterwards and you may feel guilty about it.

[Corran]

Preface: I dont buy the argument I am about to make.

Since the spell says "when the spell ends" instead of "after the spell has ended", one could say that the charmed target learns he was charmed the exact moment the spell's duration ends, and not after that. I mean, the conclusion could still be reached, but it wouldn't be an automatic success.

So, you just need to make he charmed target incapable of processing this info at the exact moment the spell's duration ends. Is knocking the target unconscious enough? Is killing the target and then reviving enough? Is dropping their mental stats (eg feeblemind) enough? Can you suggest or dominate or otherwise control their thoughts via some other spell be enough? DM's call. Assuming of course the initial claim is accepted, which is a stretch.

[Mastikator]

Preface: I dont buy the argument I am about to make.

Since the spell says "when the spell ends" instead of "after the spell has ended", one could say that the charmed target learns he was charmed the exact moment the spell's duration ends, and not after that. I mean, the conclusion could still be reached, but it wouldn't be an automatic success.

So, you just need to make he charmed target incapable of processing this info at the exact moment the spell's duration ends. Is knocking the target unconscious enough? Is killing the target and then reviving enough? Is dropping their mental stats (eg feeblemind) enough? Can you suggest or dominate or otherwise control their thoughts via some other spell be enough? DM's call. Assuming of course the initial claim is accepted, which is a stretch.

Or do it the old fashioned way: Girlboss, Gatekeep, Gaslight

[Segev]

The fact that the spell says they know you Charmed them tells us that it is definitely not intended to be something you keep up long term. Charm person is a spell you use to sweet talk your way into an immediate advantage. Note that, unlike friends, it doesn't make the target hostile to you (which, honestly, is overpowered on friends since there's no save and thus you can compel somebody who'd normally be aggressively indifferent or even determinedly friendly to be hostile), but they do know you did it and will react accordingly.

My best advice, if you want to use charm person as part of a means of getting in good with people, would be to spend that hour you've got them whammied trying your best to actually live up to the opinion of you the spell enforces on them: be a good friend. Use the spell to grease the wheels of introduction, but don't use it to exploit the target. Even let them know what you did before the spell wears off, and try to persuade them while they're Charmed to at least consider forgiving you and giving you a chance when the spell wears off.

I assume you have a high charisma and at least one of Persuasion or Deception trained from your background, which should at least help. If you don't, then you'll need to evaluate what "pretending to be a bard" means to you, and probably tell us so we can help you better.

I actually kind-of wonder, thinking on this further: would people who hire escorts or other "pleasant company" for the purpose of having this person feign interest and affection be okay with - or even be expecting from an expensively talented example of the profession - a Charm effect being used to enhance the experience? Remove any awkwardness not just by personal Deception skill, but also by magically making the client think of the companion as "a friendly acquaintance" more than as a (possibly judgmental) service-provider. Make it generally nicer to be around him or her because of the Advantage that performer has on all Charisma rolls. Etc.

IT requires a shift in mindset about what magical charm means, obviously, if that's going to be the case.

In most games, where people tend to treat magical influence as overtly hostile and undesirable (and often for good reason), being subtle with it and avoiding using it on those who'll hold a grudge and be able to do something about it later is important.


Or do it the old fashioned way: Girlboss, Gatekeep, Gaslight

Let's keep Scarlet Pearls out of this; we're trying to be friendly, here, and not engage in druidic swarms. Awakened zombies also seem a bit off. :smallwink:

[Phhase]

Not really, once the spell ends, the effect of the spell causes them to know what you did.

I think the better approach would be to not use the spell and instead just be naturally charming. Expertise in appropriate stats helps. Unfortunately wizard doesn't have access to enhance ability so you'd have to pick up another class or find another route to get advantage on cha checks.

Right, but they might not know it was you who did it. Arguably.

[Psyren]

Unfortunately wizard doesn't have access to enhance ability so you'd have to pick up another class or find another route to get advantage on cha checks.

Actually, they do as of Tasha's - TCoE pg. 75

[CTurbo]

Sorcerer's and Warlocks are the best users of Charm Person thanks to Subtle Spell and At-Will Disguise Self as well as typically high Deception and Persuasion. Being able to disguise yourself afterwards is the best way probably. Disguise Self alters your clothes and everything unlike the Changeling's ability. Disguise Self allows you to set up another character. Subtle Spell really only works when multiple characters are around talking to the target. If you're 1 on 1 with the target, Subtle Spell would be useless as the target would still know they were charmed by you.

[Mahar]

thank you guys for the info and thoughts on this question you guys have given me a lot of things to think about and for those of you that were wondering why my character is pretending to be a bard it is because he is a changeling who was trained as a wizard rouge by a rouge mentor then betrayed by him because he was an expendable nobody so he is trying to turn a persona in to a well known figure but because he is a changeling and some mental trauma he is trying to turn his bard persona in to a legend while not actually being a bard. also I thought it would be fun to try and fib about being a bard while not being a bard to see how far I can keep the lie going without anyone noticing and so far we have done two sessions without anyone noticing that I have not used bardic inspiration or bard only spells once even on myself.:smallbiggrin: