Bandits setting fire to a town

[Skrum]

As the title. There's a larger story, but the short of it is a group of bandits are attacking a small town that's friendly to the PC's. They're going to arrive a few minutes after the bandits, so a building is already going to be on fire. My thought is that at first the bandits are going to focus on setting more fires, but once the PC's start dropping them they're going to fight back. The PC's are going to fight off the bandits, and suppress the fire.

This is a level 4 game.

Anyone run something like this? I don't need to get complicated, but I'm looking for some kind of mechanic for the fires (bandits setting them, players putting them out/stopping the bandits)

[Thunderous Mojo]

Does anyone, either bandit or PC, have Control Flames?

My instinct would be to institute a Fire Level Scale.
A 5’ Square of Fire is fire level 1.

Control Flames would instantly extinguish a level 1 Fire.
A PC armed with water could spend one Action to reduce the fire to a Level 0 Fire…which could be embers and so forth.

Once a fire reaches Level O, spending a further action would either extinguish or increase the fire level.

A level 2 Fire would cover a 10’ square…with each subsequent increase or decrease in the Fire level requiring a (N)PC action. Each additional Fire level will increase the flaming area by a 5’ square. Each decrease in Fire level will decrease the flaming area by a 5’ square,

Depending upon how quickly you want the fires to spread, you can also rule that once a fire reaches a certain fire level, say Fire Level 2 for example, the fire will also increase it’s Fire Level automatically each round.

A level 2 Fire, being fed by a bandit can expand very quickly.

The Living Spell Template from Eberron might also be a simple way to have the PC’s literally fight fires.

[Mastikator]

If the bandits know they can't take the player characters in a straight fight then they should not give a straight fight.

Set up an ambush outside of town with traps, just some basic stuff, holes in the ground with spikes, raisable spikes that the players can run into, logs that swing from trees, etc, once the players try to engage the bandits they flee into the ambush area. The bandits value their lives and want to win.
But make the traps low DC and low damage to give the players a fighting chance, but not too low DC or damage.

[da newt]

First - why do the bandits want to set a town on fire? What do they get out of it? A burned down town is tough to make a profit from. Maybe it's a group that extorts protection money from villages in the area, and this village didn't pay so they are making an example of it ...

I'd go real simple w/ the fire mechanics - 1 action set a fire (5x5), 1 action put out a fire (5x5), every turn the fire grows (+5x5), person in contact w/ fire takes 1d6 fire damage.

Bandits do not have a cause worth dying for and aren't defending their home - once the good guys arrive and it becomes evident the bandits can't quickly overwhelm them with superior numbers, they'll retreat to bandit another day.

I'd recommend focusing the encounter on saving people, ensure there are some losses so that the PCs are emotionally vested in revenge and then you have a good reason for a follow-on raid on a bandit camp/hideout/dungeon with all the traps and combat and loot which that would entail.

[Kol Korran]

Some thoughts:
# First of all, it is important to know the bandits are setting the town on fire. I can see several motives:
- Fear: They want to terrorise the town, and show it "who is boss".
- Damage something specific: Perhaps they want to damage the town granary, perhaps the local lord's estate, perhaps the stables to hamper the town watch who are after them.
- Perhaps it's revenge? Against some (true or false) wrong done to them.
- And perhaps it is a ruse/ distraction for pillaging/ Theft?

And perhaps it is a combination of the above. It's important to realise the cause, because that can impact the mechanics.

Mechanics: The two scales+ side objectives+ sudden crisis:
--------------------------------------------
I know it may sound complicated to have 3 mechanics, but they are actually quite simple to use, and together they create a tense, interesting and fulfilling engagement. The scales are not my invention, but from The Angry DM.

The Two scales:
# Each scale is a simple measure from 0-10. Each scale is used to track some major factor in the scene. In this case, I suggest:
- The main objective of the bandits. (For simplicity's sake, I'll fo with "Spread fear and terror". Let's say that 0 means no fear at all, and 10 means utter terror.
- Th second one, since we are dealing with a major fire could be "Fire spread". Let's say that 0 means the fire has been thoroughly put out and 10 means the fire is blazing through most of the town, and is totally out of control

At the start of the scene, you set a number to each scale, showing the current severity. For example, for the Fire Spread scale you can decide it's 3 (The fire will take some effort to put down, but isn't spread that much), or 5 (the fire is well established, and will take considerable effort, but a substantial part of the town is still safe) or 8 ( much of the town is ablaze, and the fires are raging, but there is still some left to save, and with grwat and focused effort, the day may still be saved).

Now, whenever something happens that greatly affect each scale, adjust that scale by 1 towards the edges. (Contining the "Fire Spread" example- if the party arranged an effective water chain, or used a spell to douse the fire, or stopped many bandits to starts more fires, adjust the scale by 1 towards 0. If however the party hesitates too much, focuses on other sudden crisis as I'll describe below, or the bandits managed to set fire to an alchemist lab full of fireworks, adjust by 1 towards 10).

Once the major scale (In this case the Fire spread) reaches either side- the situation is resolved, for better or worse. The other scale (Fear, pillaging, or whatever was the bandits cause) may not resolve fully, and may yet affect future adventures.

I suggest choosing 2-3 points on each scale, that signify progeress, and gives some mechanical advantage on the scene. This is for the players to feel that progress is made (For better or worse). For example, using the "Fire Spread" scale- on 3 yoy could say that there are far less fires now, and more controlled. Some bandits may leave, or more town people may be available, or the fires may cause less damage. On 8 however, the fires may well be spread, more town people are injured/ dead, fires cause more damage, and so on.

# Side Objectives:
For this I suggest making a simple map of the town (A rough sketch, not an exact map or a grid map), to show major locales of significance. I also suggest to note to yourself major NPCs in the town, in the bandit force, and their starting point on the map.

The map can be used to track the PCs, bandit groups, the fire spread (some simple common tokens may suffice) and major NPCs.

While the map is nice, and can help understand what is going on, it has another goal: To show the major people/ places that can be damagex in the bandit attack and spreading fire.

I suggest you appoint a simple rule for each... If these are hurt/ damaged/ killed, it can cause some problems- Either right on the scene, or later on. Some examples:
- The town's granery catches significant fire:
Much of the Town's food is lost. Increase terror by 1. All food will cost triple till next harvest. People may starve.
- The lord's manor catches fire: The lord commands aid from as many people as he can! The PCs will have far less support from the town's people and watch. The bandits use this to set fire to other places. Increase Fire Spread by 1. If the estate suffers major damage, the lord will be unfriendly to the PCs in the future.
- The Local library catches fire. Some apprentice casters die. The PCs will have greater difficulty purchasing scrolls, other minor magical items and doing research.
- The raid leader is killed. Some bandits disperse, Fear scale is reduced by 2!
- Watch captin is killed. Fear rises by 1. Coordinating the watch becomes difficult.

And so on... Don't put too many such side objectives. The PCs will have their hands full as it is. I suggest up to 4 "bad outcomes" and up to 4 "good ones". You don't have to use them all, play is as the scene unfolds.

# Sudden Crisis:
This mechanic isn't a must, but can add tension and difficult choices. Prepare some events, that you can spring on the PCs, that require immediate attention, but may draw their efforts/ focus from the current effort.

These play similarily to the "side Objectives", only that they are not present on the map, but a more like "wild cards" that you can spring. These should be short, tense, and resolved quickly.
Some examples:
- A scream! Someone is trapped on the second floor of a building mostly in flame!
- Stampede! Some panicked animals are running down the street in wild panic, and may trample all in their way.
- Explosion! Something caught some fire and blew up, sending flaming vuklding pieces and fires around.
- Crazed bandits! Some bandits drank/used drugs and are now fearless, aggressive and very violent. They have to be stopped!

Summary of these mechanics:
The idea is to have a fluid and vague enough scale to measure and track progress but not be tied down too much by exact mechanics. Let the PCs be creative, and adjuciate their decisions and actiona accordingly. The situation should force tough choices, and divided effort.

As to the actual Fire Dousing mechanics? I wouldn't sweat it too much. I's set a few simple DCs for the party's efforts. These can be used for actually dousing the fire, for ccordinating town's people, for climbing walls, calming animals, and so forth.

About 10 for simple not threatened tasks.
About 15 for dangerous or threatened tasks
About 10 for very dangerous, or dangerous & threatened tasks.

Fire/ collapse/ other damage can also correlate: 1d6, 2d6 and 3d6 accordingly, or whatever else you choose.

Good luck!

[sithlordnergal]

First - why do the bandits want to set a town on fire? What do they get out of it? A burned down town is tough to make a profit from. Maybe it's a group that extorts protection money from villages in the area, and this village didn't pay so they are making an example of it

The better question is, why wouldn't the bandits set fire to a town? Its not about money, its about sending a message. When given the option to make money or watch something burn, always watch something burn.

[Tawmis]

As the title. There's a larger story, but the short of it is a group of bandits are attacking a small town that's friendly to the PC's. They're going to arrive a few minutes after the bandits, so a building is already going to be on fire. My thought is that at first the bandits are going to focus on setting more fires, but once the PC's start dropping them they're going to fight back. The PC's are going to fight off the bandits, and suppress the fire.
This is a level 4 game.
Anyone run something like this? I don't need to get complicated, but I'm looking for some kind of mechanic for the fires (bandits setting them, players putting them out/stopping the bandits)

One way (if it's multiple buildings) - is figure out (based on the structure) how much "HP" (structure points, I guess?) a building has - and begin rolling fire damage. Or what I've done is give a base amount - 25%, for example - of the building is on fire. Each round that there isn't something done to put the fire out, roll another D20 + # of Bandits contributing to the fire. So say next round, you roll a 5 and there's 5 bandits burning the place - now 35% of the fire is contained. As players fight the flames, roll a d10+the number of players trying to reduce the fire. The fire spreading is a D20, because fire can spread easily, while putting it out is a D10 as putting out fires, especially once they begin to burn inside and not just outside the building, gets far more complicated.

[Skrum]

The bandits are acting on behalf of a hardened criminal that recently escaped from prison and has history with the town's sheriff. The players are going to ride in, fight off the bandits to save the town, and then track down the criminal on behalf of the sheriff who they've befriended in previous adventures.

Ultimately decided to keep it simple...the bandits can create fires, and if not interrupted, the fire will gain a size category each round. Once it reaches gargantuan, the building is lost. A player may spend an action to reduce a fire size by one category. Some of the bandits are going to be on horseback, so they'll have a mobility advantage.

[Keravath]

How realistic do you want this to be? A 10'x10' fire would be really hard to put out without a lot of water. A single bucket/round won't put it out - I've doused enough camp fires - you need quite a bit of water to actually reduce or stop a decent fire. On the other hand, if the characters have control flames/prestidigitation or one of the other cantrips that allow for the character to create or stop a fire then they would likely be able to make progress in putting out the fires.

So, how you want to run it may really depend on the characters in the party and how "realistic" you want it to be.

[Psyren]

First - why do the bandits want to set a town on fire? What do they get out of it? A burned down town is tough to make a profit from. Maybe it's a group that extorts protection money from villages in the area, and this village didn't pay so they are making an example of it ...

I'd go real simple w/ the fire mechanics - 1 action set a fire (5x5), 1 action put out a fire (5x5), every turn the fire grows (+5x5), person in contact w/ fire takes 1d6 fire damage.

Bandits do not have a cause worth dying for and aren't defending their home - once the good guys arrive and it becomes evident the bandits can't quickly overwhelm them with superior numbers, they'll retreat to bandit another day.

I'd recommend focusing the encounter on saving people, ensure there are some losses so that the PCs are emotionally vested in revenge and then you have a good reason for a follow-on raid on a bandit camp/hideout/dungeon with all the traps and combat and loot which that would entail.

I agree with all this - make sure the motivations are clear and ensure a few hooks for the next bit. The PCs get to choose which they prioritize - saving townsfolk vs. saving their property vs. taking out the threat vs. saving their own skins - and you can fold any possibility into your future plans.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Wow. I think you have a choice to make here.

Option 1: Develop and write rules for a whole new game-in-game about burning down buildings / stopping burning down buildings that you will probably only use this one time in your entire life.

Option 2: Narrate situation, listen to player's responses and proposed solutions, narrate new situation as a result of that response incorporating the actions of third party (bandits) and fourth party (indigenous folk) participants. Repeat.

More considerations for Option 1:
As far as the bandits, are they smart enough to post lookouts?
Bullies don't like it when heroes fight back, especially on equal terms or in a time or place of the heroes choosing. What will they do to avoid these circumstances?
Can the builies afford accelerants? Or better fuel (flasks of oil, bundles of straw or other flammables already soaked in oil)? What fire making/spreading values do each of there have compared to one action by one villager equipped with a tool (pitchfork, broom, heavy cloth)?
What effect will smoke have on the ability to work? It's pretty debilitating IRL.
How many buckets does a village have? What value does each bucket add? Does it require proficiency? What ability score mod will you use?
I could go on...and many of you have already. This forum is great for this kind of stuff.

[Sorinth]

I would probably track each fire/building via levels with it growing automatically by a level every round and whenever a fire is started on a building already on fire (As an Action from a bandit). At certain levels it gains abilities. So roughly something like:

Fire has started (Level 1)
- As an action anyone can decrease the fire by 1 level, it's put out if it goes to level 0
Building has caught (Level 3)
- Can only reduce the fire level with magic or real firefighting tools (ie not just a simple action anymore)
- Deals 1d6 fire damage to anyone who ends their turn inside the building
- Inside the building is heavily obscured from the smoke
Building is in full blaze (Level 5)
- Can only reduce the fire level with magic
- Deals 2d6 fire damage to anyone who ends their turn inside the building, and 1d6 to anyone within 5ft of the building
- The area inside and 10ft around the building is heavily obscured from the smoke
- At the end of the round roll a d20, on a 15 or higher the fire jumps to an adjacent building either creating a new fire in that building or increasing that buildings fire level by 1 if it's already on fire.
Building has collapsed (Level 10)
- Building collapses dealing 2d6 Bludgeoning and 2d6 Fire damage to anyone inside
- Anyone inside is now restrained and takes 2d6 Fire damage at the start of their turn, they can try to break free with a DC 20 Strength check
- Someone can try to pull a trapped person out by making a DC 20 strength check, on success the trapped person is pulled free. The player making making the attempt takes 2d6 Fire damage regardless of whether it was successful or not.

Maybe randomize the levels based on the building size so the large inn or stone temple have to get to twice the above levels, whereas a stable might burn faster/hotter and do an extra d6 of Fire damage, etc...


In terms of combat the bandits should have a mix between attacking (players and villagers), looting, and starting fires. There should be villagers in most of buildings so the players should have to choose between saving villagers in burning buildings, fighting the fires, or attacking the bandits. If they really want to burn the village down then once the bandits are aware of the players 1-2 bandits should focus on starting/increasing the fire levels to try and get as many buildings up to a Blaze while the bandit leader and whatever other bandits are around fight the players in a stalling effort. And that means quite a lot of taking the dodge action to try to get the fight to last longer and give more time to the firestarters. Once enough buildings have gotten into a full blaze the bandits should try to retreat.

Once the bandits are defeated or have fled I would go to a group skill check for the remaining firefighting effort where the DC is modified by the how many buildings have reached a full blaze.

[Chronos]

How many bandits are there, and how many PCs? If the bandits outnumber the PCs, then they could just scatter whenever the PCs show up, and any who don't get chased continue starting fires. With tactics like that, the PCs are going to find it almost impossible to keep up with the fires.

Also, what are the townsfolk doing in all of this? They can certainly help with firefighting, and if there are enough of them, they might also be able to help fight the bandits. If nothing else, they can let the players know where the bandits are.

[Damon_Tor]

The bandits are acting on behalf of a hardened criminal that recently escaped from prison and has history with the town's sheriff. The players are going to ride in, fight off the bandits to save the town, and then track down the criminal on behalf of the sheriff who they've befriended in previous adventures.

Ultimately decided to keep it simple...the bandits can create fires, and if not interrupted, the fire will gain a size category each round. Once it reaches gargantuan, the building is lost. A player may spend an action to reduce a fire size by one category. Some of the bandits are going to be on horseback, so they'll have a mobility advantage.

That seems very fast to me. After 6 seconds the fire is small, 12 and it's medium, 18 and it's large, 24 huge, the 30 seconds the building is gone.

Thirty seconds.

What are these buildings made of?

IMO, slow it waaaay down. Roll 1d6 and have the fire grow on a 6. That gives you an average of 3 minutes before a building goes down. That's still really fast, but I think its at least somewhat more realistic.