How cheesy is this build?

[Notafish]

I've been given the chance to re-spec my character now that we are a 3 levels into our 3.5 campaign and have had a chance to adjust to the system from 5e. I started as a Barbarian Elf, classing into Wizard (in part because I figured the extra hp at level one would be worth it; in part because I thought that beating illiteracy through read magic was funny. However, I did not have a good idea of what to do with the skill ranks, and put things all over the place instead of defining what the character ought to be good at/what progression they should be aiming for.

I don't want to erase my character's story, but I do want to have something to aim for at level 7, and Geomancer is looking like an interesting prestige class. So I'm thinking of shuffling my skill choices a bit to aim for it... and using Mystic Ranger with the Sword of the Arcane Order feat to meet the spellcasting prereqs.

So,

Barbarian 1 - [feat: Point Blank Shot unless I think of a good reason to swap; Whirling Frenzy rage variant]
Wizard 1
Mystic Ranger 1 [feat: Extra Rage]
Mystic Ranger 2
Mystic Ranger 3
Mystic Ranger 4 [feat: Sword of the Arcane Order]

as I understand it at, the Arcane Order feat lets me use my 2nd-level spell slot for Wizard or Ranger spells, thus meeting the prerequisite for Geomancer (although I might need to scrounge up a 2nd-level spell scroll for the spellbook first).

Compared to something like 3 levels of Druid and 3 levels of Wizard, I'd have fewer spell slots (6 cantrips/3 1st-level/1 2nd level vs. 8/4/2), but a higher BAB (+5 vs +3) and a higher caster level for the arcane spells.

I don't think it will be that cheesy, and the geomancer class would tie into some of what we've learned about elves in this world, but it does feel slightly like I'll be arguing my way into it on a technicality. So I'm curious what the Playground thinks.

[Maat Mons]

I'm not sure what you mean about beating Illiteracy through Read Magic. A Barbarian who multiclasses always becomes literate. Your character knows how to read. You don't need to cast Read Magic... unless you're trying to decipher a scroll or something.

As a rule of thumb, if you're playing a caster in 3.5, you don't want to mix in a second spellcasting class. For this reason, Geomancer is generally considered a weak class.

Another rule of thumb for playing a caster in 3.5 is not to mix in noncasting classes. Though you will sometimes see people bending this rule by building what we on this forum have taken to calling "gishes."

If you're currently a Barbarian 1 / Wizard 1, my suggestion is to look over some of the gish builds you can find around here. They usually don't use Barbarian, because Rage is mutually exclusive with casting spells, but you can just choose not to Rage.

If you have access to Dragon magazine material, a Torque of Lucid Raging would be a real help.

[pabelfly]

I would suggest looking at Rage Mage. Four levels of Wizard gets you second-level arcane casting, a second level of Barbarian would get you to 4 BAB and you could be in the class at level 6 for the cost of one feat that isn't too bad a feat.

[Anthrowhale]

It doesn't seem cheesy to me.

There are plenty of more efficient ways to enter Geomancer like Sha'ir 3/Geomancer <n> with Knowledge Devotion or Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/Geomancer <n> with Southern Magician.

[Chronos]

You're trying to do too many things, with the result that you won't be good at any of them. Pure wizard would be much more powerful, as, probably, would pure ranger. Making a build more complicated can make it more powerful, if you know what you're doing, but if you don't know what you're doing, it's likely to make you weaker.

[Notafish]

Thanks for the feedback - I had a feeling it wasn't a high-optimization build, but I was mostly curious about whether Arcane Order/Mystic Ranger was considered a marginal combination rules-wise.

For a higher-op gish, I feel like Duskblade/Abjurant Champion would be the way to go, or given Barb/Wiz, 1 level of Wizard and then something with full BAB (like Duskblade) until I get into Abjurant Champion. (I looked at Rage Mage, but honestly, it seems like the worst of both worlds unless the Spell Rage opens up some truly insane metamagic options). None of the above really speaks to me in terms of character motivation though. If I were re-rolling, I'd just do a single-class ranger or barbarian probably.

Thing is, this has been the sort of game where my character has been stealing scenes simply by virtue of having a good Strength score and remembering what my spells do - I'm not really worried about my optimization outside of making more conscious choices about how I distribute my skill ranks.

[Notafish]

I'm not sure what you mean about beating Illiteracy through Read Magic. A Barbarian who multiclasses always becomes literate.


Yes, the Barbarian learns to read by multiclassing, but what is the in-world process for learning to read via multiclassing into Rogue? Night courses at the Thieves' Guild? :smalltongue: In the case of the Wizard, the Barbarian needs to read the spellbook to become a Wizard.

[lylsyly]

I'll admit I'm a bit biased towards Mystic Ranger but I have a concept you may want to consider.
Stay an Elf.
Mystic Ranger 1 for hit points and skill points.
Wizard 1 for the spellbook and some utility spells.
Mystic Ranger +5
Arcane Archer 2 - entagle scales up fairy well.
Finish with Mystic Ranger.
Once you get 4th level spells make sure you get AntiMagiic Field into your Spellbook.

Now your going to prepare entangle in all your 1st level slots, swift haste in all your 2nd level slots, AMF in all your 4th level slots.

You are now a primarily ranged combatant that can melee if needed and fairly competent at BFC.

Other than Mage of the Arcane Order and Extend Spell all your feats should be archery oriented.

DISCLAIMER: We always play gestalt but Ive done this many tines with Wizard or Cleric on the other side and it as always been benificial to the character.

[Zarvistic]

I would recommend to stick to full mystic ranger. Take zen archery, wild cohort and a race with a big wisdom bonus if any is available to you. You will have the companion, good spells and decent archery with the combat mastery feats.

[Paragon]

I'd recommend full mystic ranger with the added trick that if you pick Endurance as a feat, when you get it a Mystic Ranger 4 you can pick SotAO instead making it a 4th level feat.
This opens up many options depending on what you wanna do afterwards. I remember a barbarian mystic ranger into Runescarred Berserker. It was nice

[SirNibbles]

I'd recommend full mystic ranger with the added trick that if you pick Endurance as a feat, when you get it a Mystic Ranger 4 you can pick SotAO instead making it a 4th level feat.

You do not get a free feat just because you already have a bonus feat that a class grants you, unless it specifically says so.

[Darg]

I would suggest looking at Rage Mage. Four levels of Wizard gets you second-level arcane casting, a second level of Barbarian would get you to 4 BAB and you could be in the class at level 6 for the cost of one feat that isn't too bad a feat.

Rage mage is a late bloomer. Mystic ranger has access to 5ths at level 10 (though they are stuck there). If you go with 2 levels of barbarian, you get 5ths at level 16. If you take 1 level barbarian you'll get 5ths at 13. On the other hand, late game you'll eventually have access to 7ths or 8ths. Another downside is that your BAB will always have a max of 12 or 13. Largely negating any real benefit of combining casting with rage. (Eldritch knight using power attack is a better combatant than a rage mage). If rage mage gave good BAB and the level 10 capstone was a free bonus attached to going into a rage, it would honestly be a decent class (in niche circumstances makes up for the loss of greater/mighty rage even if it is an enhancement bonus). While very niche, the rage spell counts as rage so spell rage, angry spell, and spell fury are capable of being used under it.