How would this houserule affect Grappling?

[Arael666]

The two main arguments against Grappling are FoM and size. So, if someone were to houserule that freedom of movement doesn't affect Grappling anymore, how viable/good would a Grappling build be?

[Gruftzwerg]

The two main arguments against Grappling are FoM and size. So, if someone were to houserule that freedom of movement doesn't affect Grappling anymore, how viable/good would a Grappling build be?

Still depends on the enemies you are facing. If you mostly face medium sized creatures it might work. But if you DM is constantly pulling out bigger and stronger monsters than you, it might get problematic.

The problem with grappling is to become a good grappler in the first place. Imho the best solution is to be able to change into other monstrous forms (wild shape, polymorph,...) combined with a grappling focused build.

[pabelfly]

Still depends on the enemies you are facing. If you mostly face medium sized creatures it might work. But if you DM is constantly pulling out bigger and stronger monsters than you, it might get problematic.

It's also a problem if you face a large amount of enemies. Even mundanes have cleave and builds with multiple attacks can direct their attacks at different enemies if they're in range, while grapplers can only ever tackle one enemy at a time, and even that might take a few turns.

[Gruftzwerg]

It's also a problem if you face a large amount of enemies. Even mundanes have cleave and builds with multiple attacks can direct their attacks at different enemies if they're in range, while grapplers can only ever tackle one enemy at a time, and even that might take a few turns.

I get your point, but that would at least be something that you could solve with the right build:
- change into a big form
- (Greater) Multigrab

But still a heavy investment for something that is not always a reliable combat option.

But it also depends on the parties setup. If a teammate is playing a Vow of Peace character, a grappling build will have a good synergy. But if your allies oneshot most enemies, it's a waste of actions.

[pabelfly]

I get your point, but that would at least be something that you could solve with the right build:
- change into a big form
- (Greater) Multigrab

But still a heavy investment for something that is not always a reliable combat option.

But it also depends on the parties setup. If a teammate is playing a Vow of Peace character, a grappling build will have a good synergy. But if your allies oneshot most enemies, it's a waste of actions.

I didn't even know about Greater Multigrab, so that was some interesting reading. Thanks.

[Gruftzwerg]

I didn't even know about Greater Multigrab, so that was some interesting reading. Thanks.

There is also Rending Constriction that requires G. Multigrab and the Constrict ability. Gives some extra dmg for the grappling build. But still low compared to other optimized builds.

As said, there are niches where a grappling build can shine, but those are rare.
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A silly alternative approach would be to combine a form with Swallow Whole with the 1st lvl spell Hoard Gullet. The spell creates an extra-dimensional space in your stomach. Unless the enemy has teleport, he can't escape anymore.
But I don't think that this is what OP is looking for..

[Gnaeus]

The problem with grappling is to become a good grappler in the first place. Imho the best solution is to be able to change into other monstrous forms (wild shape, polymorph,...) combined with a grappling focused build.

I mean that's true, but not untrue for a trip build or most damage builds. The point at which I stopped casting Polymorph on our chain tripper every fight was when I replaced it with quickened polymorph. It's hard to find a fighter type that doesn't benefit from being huge with a 30+ strength and a bunch of natural attacks and natural armor.

[Darg]

I mean that's true, but not untrue for a trip build or most damage builds. The point at which I stopped casting Polymorph on our chain tripper every fight was when I replaced it with quickened polymorph. It's hard to find a fighter type that doesn't benefit from being huge with a 30+ strength and a bunch of natural attacks and natural armor.

Pretty much this. It also lets you stay in step or surpass your target's size as needed. Elephants are really good at grappling for example. Though, Giant Size is premium stuff.

[Arael666]

There is also Rending Constriction that requires G. Multigrab and the Constrict ability. Gives some extra dmg for the grappling build. But still low compared to other optimized builds.

As said, there are niches where a grappling build can shine, but those are rare.
___________

A silly alternative approach would be to combine a form with Swallow Whole with the 1st lvl spell Hoard Gullet. The spell creates an extra-dimensional space in your stomach. Unless the enemy has teleport, he can't escape anymore.
But I don't think that this is what OP is looking for..

It's not, the previous responses were what I'm trying to understand better. I wanted to apply this houserule in my games to allow for different types of build to take the Spotlight more often than not.

That being said, you gave me an amazing idea for a build throw at my players