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Ryusenshi
2023-04-08, 01:14 PM
I have just started to play as a GM for a 3.5 game. I haven't GM'ed in an awfully long time. I've decided to go back to 3.5, which is by far my favorite edition, warts and all. But I preferred to do a little balancing first. Most of my players have played D&D 4e or 5e but are new to 3.5, while two players are new to tabletop RPGs altogether (though they are familiar with computer RPGs or MMOs).

Keep in mind that these houserules are mostly for first-time 3.5 players, and for low-level characters. I'm not too concerned about broken high-level stuff for now, and I preferred to err on the side of keeping things as written. I prefer to let players discover things by themselves. If, when they reach mid-levels, they find that their character isn't pulling its weight, I will allow extensive retraining.



General rules

For this campaign, only options from the Player's Handbook are allowed. Yes, I know the problems with the PHB. But I don't want to overwhelm first-time players with a million options. One exception: the campaign takes place in Faerun, so players can use the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting for the gods and for character fluff.

Also, multiclassing is not allowed. For beginners, it's too easy to screw up.


Races

Players can use the FR subraces for fluff, but they can't use the mechanics: you can't choose a sun elf just to get that sweet +2 Intelligence.

Half-elves
Boy are these guys underwhelming. I decided to give them 1 extra skill point per level (4 at level 1), just like humans. They also get Able Learner: cross-class skills cost 1 point for 1 rank; while humans can choose any one thing and be good at it, half-elves tend to be dilettantes who can learn outside of their core class. I considered giving them +2 Charisma / -2 Wisdom, but a player wanted to be a half-elf cleric so it wasn't appropriate.

Half-orcs
The designers really overvalued Strength, and the poor half-orcs suffer. First, remove the Charisma penalty. Second, give them a few racial bonuses to skills: +2 in Intimidate, +2 in Survival (if they were raised by orcs) or +2 in Gather Information (if they were raised by humans). I considered giving them 1 skill points per level, a typical human trait.



Classes

Spellcasters
The following spells are banned: Summon Monster X, Summon Nature's Ally X, Polymorph and the like.
This ban serves a dual purpose. For experienced players, these spells become an arms race to find the most broken monsters. For beginners, they lead to decision paralysis: I've seen players spending 10 minutes to decide which monster they're going to summon. An outright ban is easier.
This makes the druid's Spontaneous Casting useless, so instead, druids can convert their slots to cure spells just like clerics.

Fighter
Skill points are raised to 4+Int. Add to the skill list: Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Disable Device.
Fighters may ignore Combat Expertise, Dodge and Mobility if they appear as prerequisites. This alleviates the need to plan feats in advance.
If this campaign reaches mid-levels, I will allow feats from other sources, like PHB II or Complete Warrior. I may also allow fighters to retrain feats by spending some time training, not only when they gain a level.

Monk
Full BAB.
Hit dice: d10.
Skill points: 6+Int.
This is not enough, but it's a start. Replacing the class with the Unchained Monk would be the next step.

Paladin
4+Int skill points.
Spellcasting uses Charisma instead of Wisdom. Good progression in Will saves. Boom, now you can safely dump Wisdom, and the class is no longer MAD. (Pathfinder did the same, unsurprisingly.)
Smite Evil is restored after 5 minutes. In other words, uses are given per encounter, not per day.

Ranger
Add Tumble to the skill list.
The animal companion follows the same progression as the druid's.
I may allow rangers to change their Favored Enemy with training and research.

Rogue
Give them Weapon Finesse for free at level 1. Seriously, it's a pure feat tax.
Starting at level 3, rogues can use Dexterity for damage with a weapon of their choice.
I will consider replacing the class with the Unchained Rogue.


Skills

Diplomacy
Use the Alexandrian's rules (based on the Rich Burlew ones).

Intimidate
Can use Strength instead of Charisma, by doing some demonstration of force: break a chair, bend a metal piece... Now the skill is usable by fighters and barbarians, who usually dump Charisma.

Knowledge (nature) and Knowledge (religion)
Can use Wisdom instead of Intelligence. This is for flavor rather than balance: clerics and druids should have a high score in these skills.

nonsi
2023-04-08, 03:25 PM
Your suggestions for Half-Orc are solid, but adding 1 skill points per level on top of those would make them too good.

No need to ban summoning. Just restrict them to one at a time (casting a second one ands the previous). This will prevent summoning abuse.
Also, if you go for reliable story line, a character doesn't know an unencountered monster well enough to polymorph into, so they can't gain access to them just because the player had read about them.
Just put a 20-seconds time limit on deciding the monster or they forfeit their turn.
Druids converting their slots to cure spells is really non-thematic and would leave a bad taste.

If you're gonna allow PHB II and Complete Warrior, not letting the fighter take the Combat Focus line from level 3 might get them shafted build-wise later on (unless you allow retraining).

Allow monks to incorporate flurry with their enhances movement rate. This will go a long way in making them decent battlefield controllers.

Make Battle Blessing feat an inherent feature of Paladin spellcasting.

Definitely use the Unchained Rogue.



The rest of your suggestions are solid, but there are a few more ideas that might improve your gaming experience . . .
Here are a few things that will probably help to improve the experience of both you and your players.
You can keep all the suggestions below to yourself and use them when the right time comes.



3e contains many potential game breaking factors.
Use the second link in my sig to get to a relatively compact solution for blocking official means of breaking the game.
(you're not into heavy homebrewing, so you can skip the part about redesigning the base classes)


One of 3e main problems is that it can get really slow.
The first link in my sig leads to a far more comprehensive set of changes than the second, which I don't expect you to try to cope with.
However, there are a few things in there that you might find useful (just use CTRL+F):
- Attacks of Opportunity
- Crit Substitution. On this one I can say "once you go black, you'll never go back".
- Spell-Points (if you strive for a faster game flow, this is the solution for you and you can skip the proposal for Strain & Tolerance)

TPK (total party kill) is one of the surest ways of disbandig a group.
Check out the following on this matter:
1. Gaze Attacks and On-Sight influences
2. Petrifaction – a 2-Stage Transformation

One thing that can really slow your game, is if someone's trying to do things that the rules don't address and you have to come up with rules on-the-fly mid-game.
in the following spoilers I tried to cover all the different things that my various groups had to deal with on-the-fly and was very time consuming:
1. Combat Actions – (N)ew / (R)edifined / More (O)ptions
2. Foil Action

Also, you might find a lot of useful stuff in the last spoiler block in post #30 (DM-ing Tips , Ideas & Thumb Rules).


And finally, don't waste time with trivialities and avoid making the players feel like they're getting shafted.
Remember that the purpose of the game is having fun.
1. Let the players discuss which one takes which class (as opposed of letting them find out when the characters meet for the first time). Seems trivial, but from personal experience, blocking this option pretty much dooms your campaign to failure.
2. Be lenient with price haggling. You really don't wanna waste an enire game session on that and low level characters usually struggle with income.
3. Don't be stingy with treasure. It's not coming out of your pockets.

Ryusenshi
2023-04-11, 03:48 PM
Thank you for your detailed reply. I have, in fact, read your Minimalistic 3.5 fix pretty closely. I'm honored that you replied to my message!

As I said, most of my players have never played 3.5 before, and two of them have never played D&D at all. This is why I didn't want extensive houserules. I have other ideas that I would want to apply, but... they will have to wait for another campaign. I will keep you "ban list" in mind, though.


One thing that can really slow your game, is if someone's trying to do things that the rules don't address and you have to come up with rules on-the-fly mid-game.
in the following spoilers I tried to cover all the different things that my various groups had to deal with on-the-fly and was very time consuming:
1. Combat Actions – (N)ew / (R)edifined / More (O)ptions
2. Foil Action
This will be really useful, thank you. One problem I often ran into: a player wants to do something unexpected. I want to encourage this sort of outside-the-box thinking, so I allow it - though we were playing 4e, which doesn't exactly encourage this kind of thing. Then the player finds it's better than a regular attack, and decides to do it all the time. The balance between the two isn't obvious. I've heard stories when one player fights an enemy in a kitchen, and decides to throw some flour as a distraction. All well and good. Then all the players start carrying bags of flour into dungeons.

(Incidentally, this is why I love the Primitive Brutality feature of Xefas's Teramach class: Teramachs can wield an improvised weapon efficiently, but only if they acquired it during the current fight.)


And finally, don't waste time with trivialities and avoid making the players feel like they're getting shafted.
Remember that the purpose of the game is having fun.
1. Let the players discuss which one takes which class (as opposed of letting them find out when the characters meet for the first time). Seems trivial, but from personal experience, blocking this option pretty much dooms your campaign to failure.
2. Be lenient with price haggling. You really don't wanna waste an enire game session on that and low level characters usually struggle with income.
3. Don't be stingy with treasure. It's not coming out of your pockets.
Well, so far I've been too soft of them if anything.
1. I've always done that. Usually, I ask players to decide who plays what during Session 0, or we discuss it in advance using email or whatever. Possibly with details to fill later, like "I'll play a fighter or a paladin, I'm not decided yet".
2. I'll keep that in mind.
3. I intend on following WBL.

Eladrinblade
2023-04-12, 05:58 PM
I kinda like rogues having to get by with either ranged weapons or their str score for a couple levels, but I get it.

H_H_F_F
2023-04-13, 07:58 AM
If you're looking to ease players into the game/edition, I'd try and plan a shorter campaign - and then play a longer one with more options once the first one concludes.

Regarding options, generally: to me, doing "PHB only" is a less effective at reducing choice paralysis and self-sabotage than curating options yourself. Having the option to go rogue 1/ swashbuckler X is way less confusing IMO than starting and playing a level 1 druid.

Openning up stuff like wilsdshape ranger and favored soul while banning prepared full casters us a much easier way to slide into the game than phb only.

I also think that multiclassing is the heart of 3.5, and you should let players do so (while helping them not ruin themselves) is essential to them learning what makes the system fun.

Hope you found any of this helpful! As a side note, I'm not a mod, but I think that a post asking for advice on houserules for a noob campaign would be totally fine to post on the main 3.5 forum. You might get more traction there.

nonsi
2023-04-18, 07:08 AM
I also think that multiclassing is the heart of 3.5, and you should let players do so (while helping them not ruin themselves) is essential to them learning what makes the system fun.


Q.F.T
The best thing you can do to make the game fun, is ask a player what's their character vision and help them with their character build, using whatever official 3.5e material relevant that comes to mind.
For instance, the Warlock class can make an impression of a broken class with its infinite ammo to a 3e newbie that's accustomed to Vancian spellcasting, but experienced players know that it's not broken by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm also firmly against multiclassing XP penalties of any sort. One shouldn't get shafted for building their character according to their vision.




I've heard stories when one player fights an enemy in a kitchen, and decides to throw some flour as a distraction. All well and good. Then all the players start carrying bags of flour into dungeons.


This one's really easy.
You can pull off such trick when there's a large pot of flower filled to the brim. OTOH, it's practically impossible to pull of by carrying flour on your person (on enough amount, getting moist etc.)