It's a Heist!

[Armyguyclaude]

My DM is finally allowing the creation of evil characters for a one shot and I'm loving it! The idea of the one shot is a Heist/Capture Stronghold idea and I'm the Brute Role!

I've decided upon making a Warforged Juggernaut, but I have really no idea about how to maximize breaking through walls or inanimate objects. It's a situation I've never had to deal with. I know I want strength, but that's about it. I know Warforged Juggernaut get's a bonus = to it's class level, because of Expert Bullrush, but I don't know if that's feat specific or p.class specific.

Atm we're level 15 and it's pretty much open ended for customization (no homebrew stuff)

Any and all help would be appreciated. I just want to bust down all the doors and into the vault for our haul. Let everyone else do the thinking ;)

Thanks in advance.

Edit:
Destructive rage. +8 str to breaking objects.
Lucky Break. Expend one luck reroll to reroll a strength check made to break down a door.
Maybe enchant my body with a touch attack type spell that could soften up the walls/doors?
Possible Size Category Manipulation?
War Hulk +20 Str
Dungeon Crasher +5 str to breaking objects. (Alt. Fighter)
Half Ogre Template w/ Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale for race Strength Stacking
Pain Mastery for increased strength as I'm damaged.
Spells: Heart of the mammoth, Moment of Greatness, Bloodsworn retribution, Blood Rage, Mighty Strength, Giant Size
Stunning Irruption Stuns enemies on successful break
Reckless Rage +Str when damaged
Khyber's Fury +2 Str
(Found lots of other very niche ways to gain strength or size. didn't add them as they are very niche and require much finesse to make feasible in a roleplaying scenario I.E. Cancer Mage or Alchemical Mutagen Trading)
Breaker Barbarian (?)
Shrapnel Strike causes shrapnel from broken object to go flying and deal area damage
Sacred Smasher +2 Str
Feral Heart +2 Str
Strength of Society +2 Str (?)
Marshall 1 Adds CHA bonus to Str
Factotum 3 Adds Int bonus to Str

(?) = Read about them, but couldn't find much info about why they were referenced or any info at all

[Anthrowhale]

Maybe War Hulk instead of Warforged Juggernaut? You could do something like Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/War Hulk 10. Investing 18 in strength, you'll pick up +12 from race, +20 from class, +6 enhance, +3 from level, and +5 inherent for a strength of 64.

[Armyguyclaude]

Maybe War Hulk instead of Warforged Juggernaut? You could do something like Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/War Hulk 10. Investing 18 in strength, you'll pick up +12 from race, +20 from class, +6 enhance, +3 from level, and +5 inherent for a strength of 64.

Wow lol.

I've never even heard of Anthropomorphic races. I'll have to do some researching, but dang thanks for the info drop. I'm assuming you're saying going straight strength build is the way to go then?

Edit:
Just did some minor research and I think you're over 15 levels. You have +3 LA overall for race, but from what I just saw it's +2 LA Half-Ogre and +3 A. Baleen Whale

Edit 2:
Guess A. Baleen Whale is +0 LA. OP

[Inevitability]

Dungeoncrasher fighter is the to-go role for breaking stuff and lets you bullrush people into objects to deal damage to them. Given how good Shock Trooper is, you might have been planning to pick up Improved Bull Rush anyway.

[Armyguyclaude]

Dungeoncrasher fighter is the to-go role for breaking stuff and lets you bullrush people into objects to deal damage to them. Given how good Shock Trooper is, you might have been planning to pick up Improved Bull Rush anyway.

Thanks for the Alt. Fighter option. Super cool.

[Anthrowhale]

Edit:
Just did some minor research and I think you're over 15 levels. You have +3 LA overall for race, but from what I just saw it's +2 LA Half-Ogre and +3 A. Baleen Whale

Edit 2:
Guess A. Baleen Whale is +0 LA. OP
The Half-Ogre template (as opposed to the Half-Ogre race) is in Dragon #313. It's +0 LA as long as you are already large. It gives Str+4, Int-2, Cha-2, Natural Armor+2, and makes you count as a giant for special effects.

And yes, A Baleen Whale is pretty OP. It may or may not fit into what you have in mind.

Dungeoncrasher is definitely good for breaking things, so if you want it having fewer levels of War Hulk is doable although it cuts into your strength.

Edit: ah, and I forgot to include strength from raging which makes it 68 strength. You may also want to look into the Pain Mastery feat for even more hulk-smash fun.

[Gruftzwerg]

...how to maximize breaking through walls or inanimate objects. ...

I have to ask here if you really want to use the "break object" option to get through a wall or if just doing enough dmg ain't maybe easier to accomplish.

Lets get some numbers for stone walls:
Masonry wall (1 ft. thick) = Hardness 8; HP 90; Break DC 35
Hewn stone (3 ft. thick) = Hardness 8; HP 540; Break DC 50

Imho just doing flat dmg seems easier than the high Break DCs here. Especially if we assume that you are in combat and can't "take 10" therefore.

If you would pick a simple Ubercharger (without Dungeon Crusher, since the extra dmg dice don't scale with charge multipliers), you could easily break a masonary wall in a single attack and hewn stone in a full attack.

Also keep in mind that "breaking" prevents your from any further attacks that round. But when you pounce and destroy the wall, you could still (use swift action movement or swift action teleport and) use any remaining attacks.

[Maat Mons]

A blue slaad is ECL 14 and has Passwall at will. Unfortunately, Passwall doesn't help against walls made of metal or force. Then again, most things discussed so far don't work against Walls of Force, and struggle against exotic metals like adamantine and obdurium (especially alloyed with Oerthblood and pure ore).

Disintegrate is good for getting through walls of any sort. But the only thing I can think of that gets it at will is a beholder. I guess you could Mind Switch with one. Or somehow have one as a minion.

Teleportation effects are also good for getting through walls.

Edit 1: Wait, why be a blue slaad when you can Planar Bind a blue slaad?

Edit 2: A handy tool is an adamantine maul that someone cast Greater Mighty Wallop on, preferably at caster level 16. I'd be tempted to call it a "master key," except if you're dealing with a lock, you'll just cast Knock, so the maul is strictly for walls, floors, and ceilings, not doors or safes.

[Gruftzwerg]

A blue slaad is ECL 14 and has Passwall at will. Unfortunately, Passwall doesn't help against walls made of metal or force. Then again, most things discussed so far don't work against Walls of Force, and struggle against exotic metals like adamantine and obdurium (especially alloyed with Oerthblood and pure ore).

...

Teleportation effects are also good for getting through walls.
..

If you just wanna get past all "walls", imho the best solution would be a warlock with the invocation Flee the Scene.
FtS includes Dimension Door. And DD can take multiple targets with you, depending on your clvl. If you have enough time (for multiple FtS), you can even at lvl 6 try to get your party into/outta a building. (1 additional target / 3 clvl = +2 allies at lvl 6 per use of FtS).

But I think that the OP is looking for more mundane options here..

[Armyguyclaude]

I have to ask here if you really want to use the "break object" option to get through a wall or if just doing enough dmg ain't maybe easier to accomplish.


This is probably true, but I'll counter with 2 arguments:
1) I really want to know how many options there are out there for this sort of idea since DND 3.5 is so expansive. I'm assuming there is probably lots.

2) Thematically no on wants to watch a movie where the character have to chop down walls for several minutes. At least not me. I'd rather watch someone just bust through them all like Juggernaut from X-Men.


A blue slaad is ECL 14 and has Passwall at will. Unfortunately, Passwall doesn't help against walls made of metal or force. Then again, most things discussed so far don't work against Walls of Force, and struggle against exotic metals like adamantine and obdurium (especially alloyed with Oerthblood and pure ore).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit 2: A handy tool is an adamantine maul that someone cast Greater Mighty Wallop on, preferably at caster level 16. I'd be tempted to call it a "master key," except if you're dealing with a lock, you'll just cast Knock, so the maul is strictly for walls, floors, and ceilings, not doors or safes.

Yea I'm still working on a "Get past all magical objects" as well. Atm I've been focusing on just the regular material breaking, but I'm trying to figure out how to break the magical stuff too. I'm toying with an idea of adding an on touch effect to my body that activates as I'm charging.

Thanks for the Greater Mighty Wallop idea.


If you just wanna get past all "walls", imho the best solution would be a warlock with the invocation Flee the Scene.
FtS includes Dimension Door. And DD can take multiple targets with you, depending on your clvl. If you have enough time (for multiple FtS), you can even at lvl 6 try to get your party into/outta a building. (1 additional target / 3 clvl = +2 allies at lvl 6 per use of FtS).

True. This totally seems more akin to the transporter role (Get away driver) in Heist films. Unfortunately I'm the Brute. While I know the Brute is supposed to beat up dudes and buy others time we already have a character filling the beat people up part of my role. Figure I could at least fill in the is big and dumb and breaks thing part of the role :). Thanks for the clarification.

[Gruftzwerg]

This is probably true, but I'll counter with 2 arguments:
1) I really want to know how many options there are out there for this sort of idea since DND 3.5 is so expansive. I'm assuming there is probably lots.

2) Thematically no on wants to watch a movie where the character have to chop down walls for several minutes. At least not me. I'd rather watch someone just bust through them all like Juggernaut from X-Men.

Nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to confirm if you really wanted to narrow it down to that or not. I'll see if I can come up with anything to support this idea/concept.





True. This totally seems more akin to the transporter role (Get away driver) in Heist films. Unfortunately I'm the Brute. While I know the Brute is supposed to beat up dudes and buy others time we already have a character filling the beat people up part of my role. Figure I could at least fill in the is big and dumb and breaks thing part of the role :). Thanks for the clarification.

Well you could use Baleful Utterance (Shatter at will for warlock) to blast the doors/walls into dust (or sections of it, if your DM allows that)^^ But again not the brute role.. I get it.. but maybe dumb warlock (low INT) that breaks things is enough for you^^

[Armyguyclaude]

Nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to confirm if you really wanted to narrow it down to that or not. I'll see if I can come up with anything to support this idea/concept.


Well you could use Baleful Utterance (Shatter at will for warlock) to blast the doors/walls into dust (or sections of it, if your DM allows that)^^ But again not the brute role.. I get it.. but maybe dumb warlock (low INT) that breaks things is enough for you^^

Thanks for keeping me in thought. And as for playing a dumb spellcaster I'm fine with that as long as it allows me to keep to the idea of "Me Smash!" Would really love to play a Juggernaut from X-men idea, but so far it doesn't seem like it's going to be very viable. I'm guessing Strength stacking and Size stacking will be my best option at this point. Unfortunately it doesn't seem there's many Breaking and Entering feats or classes.

[ShurikVch]

Prodigy template (Dungeon Master's Guide II), Strength: +2 Str and +4 on Str checks (thus, +5 on checks total); LA +2

Aym, Queen Avarice vestige (Tome of Magic): Ruinous Attack seals double damage to objects, and - if your effective binding level is at least 10 - your attack counts as adamantine

Paragnostic Initiate (Complete Champion) can get +2 on damage to objects with just 1-level dip

Dwarven Rogue substitution levels (Dragon #338) adds 1d6, 2d6, or 3d6 damage to objects

[Armyguyclaude]

Prodigy template (Dungeon Master's Guide II), Strength: +2 Str and +4 on Str checks (thus, +5 on checks total); LA +2

Aym, Queen Avarice vestige (Tome of Magic): Ruinous Attack seals double damage to objects, and - if your effective binding level is at least 10 - your attack counts as adamantine

Paragnostic Initiate (Complete Champion) can get +2 on damage to objects with just 1-level dip

Dwarven Rogue substitution levels (Dragon #338) adds 1d6, 2d6, or 3d6 damage to objects

It definitely seems there's more options to damaging objects than just strength checking them. Which is unfortunate since I was hoping to just do the break/strength option

[Gorthawar]

Dungeon Crasher +5 str to breaking objects. (Alt. Fighter)


If you take the 6th level dungeon crasher acf the bonus to break stuff actually increases to +10.

In addition the dead level fighter boni can give you +1 on checks to break things from level 3 at every other level. Which would give a total of +12 at level 6 if combined with dungeon crasher.

Regarding the warhulk if you use the goliath barbarian you only qualify for the class when raging (acf makes you large) and should be able to use your skills normally when you're not hulking out. Furthermore you could potentially use legacy champion or uncanny trickster to progress warhulk and gain some base attack bonus whilst increasing your strength. Or just use it to get more than 10 levels.

[Maat Mons]

I notice you've updated your original post to mention using something called Thiondar's Permanent Anti Magic Field to deal with Walls of Force.

Firstly, where is this spell from? I've never heard of it, and the only mention of it I can find doesn't give any hints about its source. The only other mention I can find of Thiondar is from a D&D 2e adventure published in Dungeon magazine.

Secondly, Antimagic Field states that it doesn't hamper a Wall of Force, so if Thiondar's Permanent Anti Magic inherits the functionality of Antimagic Field, it's not going to get you through those walls.

[Armyguyclaude]

I notice you've updated your original post to mention using something called Thiondar's Permanent Anti Magic Field to deal with Walls of Force.

Firstly, where is this spell from? I've never heard of it, and the only mention of it I can find doesn't give any hints about its source. The only other mention I can find of Thiondar is from a D&D 2e adventure published in Dungeon magazine.

Secondly, Antimagic Field states that it doesn't hamper a Wall of Force, so if Thiondar's Permanent Anti Magic inherits the functionality of Antimagic Field, it's not going to get you through those walls.

I just googled ways to get permanent anti magic fields and Thiondar's option came up. Not sure where it comes from, but a site that's not normally known for homebrew stuff came up with it.

[Inevitability]

https://realmofadventure.fandom.com/wiki/Thiondar%27s_permanent_anti-magic_field

This one? Because yeah, it's not dndwiki, but it's pretty clearly someone's personal game wiki. I wouldn't assume anything on there is official.

All other references to the spell seem to point towards 2e sources, so it looks like someone took a 2e spell and updated it somewhat; it's only very slightly more RAW than outright homebrew.

[Armyguyclaude]

https://realmofadventure.fandom.com/wiki/Thiondar%27s_permanent_anti-magic_field

This one? Because yeah, it's not dndwiki, but it's pretty clearly someone's personal game wiki. I wouldn't assume anything on there is official.

All other references to the spell seem to point towards 2e sources, so it looks like someone took a 2e spell and updated it somewhat; it's only very slightly more RAW than outright homebrew.

Well, guess I still need options for magical reinforced walls and such.

[Inevitability]

Well, guess I still need options for magical reinforced walls and such.

Well, by RAW there might be a sphere of annihilation in every spell component pouch...

More seriously, magic items of Disintegrate? Dark Speech can be used to weaken objects (halving their hardness) but requires pretty heavy intelligence/charisma investment that you're unlikely to see on a fighter.

[Gorthawar]

Marshal 1 will add Cha to strength checks as will Factotum 3 for Int.

There are some items in MIC that help with strength checks:
Torc of the titans (+5 morale for 3x/day)
Armbands of might (+2)
Belt of the champion (+5 competence) but is a relic of Kord which might cause alignment issues unless you use umd to activate it.

And of cause the portable ram which gives a +2 circumstance bonus. You could check with your DM if there are magic versions that give a higher bonus. And if you talk to the DM anyways they might be amenable to a synergy bonus for 5 ranks in knowledge engineering.

I've played around with some builds with the existing items and got to a bonus of just above +60 which should be enough to break most mundane walls and even some of the strongest magically reinforced ones given some time (taking 20).

Could the team wizard not just dispel magic the wall to soften it up?

[Bohandas]

If you have some way of getting access to the corruption domain you can ignore an object's hardness 1/day

[Armyguyclaude]

Marshal 1 will add Cha to strength checks as will Factotum 3 for Int.


Could the team wizard not just dispel magic the wall to soften it up?

Thanks for the ideas. I haven't really done much with items yet so I haven't added them to the edit. But definitely added Marshall and Factotum. Thanks. I understand DnD is a team game, so definitely the team wizard could help in those situations, would just be fun if I didn't have to rely on them.


If you have some way of getting access to the corruption domain you can ignore an object's hardness 1/day

I could be wrong, but doesn't hardness have more to do with dealing damage to an object instead of just strength checking it? Either way cool idea thanks.

[Gruftzwerg]

Well, by RAW there might be a sphere of annihilation in every spell component pouch...


If you wanna go silly:

Chameleon
Full BaB Class 4/ Warshaper 1

Grow the Disintegrating Touch of an Umbral Bolt (Blackball) (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm).

____________


On a more serious note:
It seems the list of possible boost got pretty big. Maybe we can build a character now that can reliably hit the Break DCs.

[thatothersting]

Although it's generally scoffed at, Divine Mind has an aura for the Destruction mantle that cuts the hardness of all objects you attack by half, which means that even if you're dealing with an adamantine wall your own adamantine weapon can just carve through it like it's butter.

A monk with Decisive Strike doubles the damage of a single melee attack, and while this won't affect the below it'll still double up your static bonuses to damage, and there's various ways to make other weapons into "special monk weapons" for the purposes of your class.

Warlock gets the Hammer Blast eldritch essence from Complete Mage which lets your zap do full damage to objects, which ties into the Hideous Blow option of attaching your blast damage to a melee attack.

So, you could still be dumb as a brick but magically (and physically, depending on stats and race!) powerful enough to just SMASH a wall down with your weapon. If your heart is still set on shoving your way through as the Juggernaut rather than smashing like the Hulk, though, then you should probably just go with everyone else's input and be a party crashing whaleman with an ogre daddy.