Barbarian Secondary Skills: Acrobatics or Stealth

[Hiro Quester]

My bard/warlock PC was murdered.

I built a replacement character: a half-orc Barbarian1/Echo Knight 5, wielding a maul
Str 17, Dex 14, Con 16.
A custom tribal warrior/shaman background.
Sentinel feat (intending to also take GWM and Crusher soon).

Heading for Ancestral Guardians Barbarian 3/Echo Knight 17.

From class, race, and background I get five skills. I'm set on Athletics, Perception, Intimidation and Survival.

I was going to also take Medicine for RP/ and Shaman background reasons, and to help the party with healing. But this turns out to be less needed and the RP reasons shifted a bit as DM and I clarified the background and backstory. A healer's kit makes it mostly irrelevant. Our party druid has medicine proficiency, too.

So I switched that skill last minute before the first game in which I played this new PC. Acrobatics seemed like a decent way to make the character good at mobility etc. for frontline melee character

But now I'm wondering if perhaps both Athletics and Acrobatics might be redundant?

Would Stealth be generally more useful (e.g. for hunting or ambushing)?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

How effective Stealth is is entirely dependent on your party and how you tend to approach and solve problems. So you know better than I do whether it's going to be worth it for you. Acrobatics, I think, is more generally useful in parties that do not usually approach problems from a stealthy perspective. So that's what I'd lean towards playing, unless taking Stealth will let you do new tactics with your party.

[da newt]

IMO acrobatics doesn't make any sense when you are good at athletics and get ADV when raging. I'm a BIG fan of stealth especially if the party has a couple other stealthy folks.

[Hiro Quester]

I guess we do make party stealth checks fairly often. But we also have a druid who casts Pass Without a Trace in many such situations.

So I guess my main question is about whether acrobatics seems redundant if I have acrobatics (and advantage with that while raging; though only 3 rages/day)?

I guess stealth proficiency might be more generally useful, since there is some overlap between athletics and acrobatics. Especially if failing a stealth check might give the party away, while failing an acrobatics check means I fall on my ass.

[Tanarii]

Stealth unless you know your DM will call for frequent acrobatics checks to maintain your balance during combat.

If they're not doing that, you generally only need Acrobatics for escape checks, and only then if your Athletics will be poor.

[CTurbo]

If I already had Athletics, I wouldn't even consider Acrobatics. Literally anything else would be better. If Stealth is the other option, go with that. I like being proficient in Stealth though so even better.

[sambojin]

You have a lvl7 druid in the party. So, in some ways, Stealth is redundant, because PwT.

But Acrobatics is already redundant, because Athletics.

You can't always count on the druid. You can always count on Athletics to do "acrobatic" things. So go Stealth. With it, you're not too bad at stealth. Without it, you need a druid to make you good at it (PwT, E.Ability, whatever). You could pick another skill, but pick Stealth. It does come up pretty regularly. If you *had* to pick another skill, and have decent Wis, pick Insight if no-one else has it. If you can't do face, do anti-face. It comes up a bit as well, in literally every adventure/ campaign.

So, yeah. Pick Stealth or Insight. Not Acrobatics. Even if I think the skill needs more uses, especially by barbarians or martials in general, in 5e. It doesn't. Stealth or Insight have plenty of uses though, with 14 Dex or Wis.
(Intimidation and Insight "is" a party face, in a way 😁)

[Leon]

You have a lvl7 druid in the party. So, in some ways, Stealth is redundant, because PwT.


Skills are never redundant because of spells, PwT isnt a win stealth button, its a big help but not failproof

[Amnestic]

You can always count on Athletics to do "acrobatic" things.

This isn't true at all. You can't make athletics checks to balance on a narrow beam or remain standing on a rocky ship. That's what acrobatics is for.

[Dr.Samurai]

Acrobatics are not redundant with Athletics; they do different things.

If your party sneaks around a lot and you feel PWT is not enough, grab Stealth.

If balance is an issue or you Jump over and into difficult terrain a lot to keep your speed up, grab Acrobatics.

If your DM lets Acrobatics and Athletics do the same things, then grab Stealth.

[Tanarii]

Acrobatics are not redundant with Athletics; they do different things. Agreed, but maintaining your balance doesn't appear to be that common a thing for most DMs / adventure modules.

Personally as a DM, I love DC 5 Acrobatics to move without falling prone terrain. :smallamused:


If balance is an issue or you Jump over and into difficult terrain a lot to keep your speed up, grab Acrobatics.Jumping more than your Str score (or half with no run up) is controlled by Athletics.

[Dr.Samurai]

Yes but if you are jumping in difficult terrain (to bypass the hit to your speed) and land in difficult terrain, it requires a DC 10 Acrobatics check to avoid falling prone. I've taken Acrobatics on some of my barbarians for this reason.

But if this doesn't come up all that often, then not a big deal.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

At my table, it comes up all the time. I love juicing low-threat encounters with environmental hazards and challenging terrain. And my players prefer to talk then fight; they don't sneak. So if you were sitting at my table I'd say Acrobatics > Stealth, no question. It sounds like at the OP's Stealth might be a better pick.

[Segev]

Athletics helps you wrestle, shove people around, climb difficult things, jump further and higher, and the like. Acrobatics helps you keep your balance, escape bonds and grapples, do aerial stunts while jumping, and the like. Stealth helps you avoid notice, sneak up on enemies, set ambushes, and scout.

[Tanarii]

Yes but if you are jumping in difficult terrain (to bypass the hit to your speed) and land in difficult terrain, it requires a DC 10 Acrobatics check to avoid falling prone. I've taken Acrobatics on some of my barbarians for this reason.
Ooh shiny I do believe I missed that rule. Where is it?

Anything that makes Acrobatics more needed is good in my book :)

[Amnestic]

Ooh shiny I do believe I missed that rule. Where is it?

It's in the Long Jump rules, PHB pg. 182.


When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your feet. Otherwise, you land prone.

[Hiro Quester]

Since I'm playing an echo knight/barbarian, I have other ways of getting around difficult terrain, since the echo moves spectrally, rather than walking (as DM ruled it). e.g. send echo out 30 ft, then switch places, or just send echo out to beat them up and keep out of the difficult terrain.

So it seems like Stealth is probably most useful.

It's not clear how the Echo Avatar uses skills when scouting up to 100 ft away while I look through their eyes, but it might be useful to be able to hide occasionally while doing that, too.

[solidork]

I suggest you consider which skill makes sense for your background. You've got a couple of ways you can arrange how you're getting your skills. Here is one possibility:

Barbarian: Athletics, Perception
Half Orc: Intimidation
Background: Survival + ______

Survival and Stealth tell a cohesive story to me, of someone who is trained at stalking the wilds. Acrobatics could fit here, but it would be more unusual - did your character grow up in mountainous terrain where they did lots of leaping from crags?

Another way you could lay them out is like this

Barbarian: Survival, Perception
Half Orc: Intimidation
Background: Athletics, Acrobatics

This kind of background speaks to someone who has dedicated themselves to honing their body in every way they can. Did their clan have physical competitions that they dedicated themselves to mastering?

You could also make use of the "Customizing Your Origin" rules to make a subtle distinction like this:

Barbarian: Survival, Perception
Half Orc: Athletics
Background: Intimidation, Stealth

This tells me story of someone who is a naturally gifted athlete and who served as some kind of enforcer for their kinship group - someone with an edge. You could flavor your descriptions of Athletics successes as raw physicality over practiced skill.

You'd need to talk to your GM, but there is also the possibility of taking Nature. If you feel like your character should know things about the natural environment that he grew up in, but are daunted by your low bonus even with proficiency, talk with your GM about what kinds of things your character could know without needing to make checks at all.

I'm playing an 8 Int character that took nature, but I discussed this as being justification for just automatically knowing things about the forest environment that he grew up in - I'm not as good at figuring out the really weird stuff, but he grew up in a forest and trained to identify plants and animals and similar things, so those kind of routine tasks shouldn't really need a check. This depends on negotiation with your GM, however.

In general, I encourage thinking about what your character should be trained in based on how you envision their background! You can obviously come up with a background that justifies whatever choices you make, but sometimes thinking in the other direction can help you decide between options of similar utility. As people have pointed out, both Stealth and Acrobatics have their uses - without a clear cut winner, coming at things from a different angle can help you decide.

Is your character the kind of person who is comfortable sneaking around, or are they the kind of person who wants to kick down the door and start smashing? Do you like the idea that your character is known for being especially sure-of-foot, or would being a little clumsy in that way be more interesting?

[Hiro Quester]

I suggest you consider which skill makes sense for your background.

I very much agree. Truth be told, I designed this character originally for a totally different campaign, where the party turned out to be melee-heavy, so I switched to a Controller wizard. In that other campaign I was also going to take a level of cleric for game-campaign reasons, because the story needed a connection to the goddess of death.

So the original shaman training custom background originally included Medicine and Survival, along with a herbalism kit and woodcarving tools, which and made sense story-wise.

But as I introduced the character in this campaign I realized that medicine was practically useless, and mostly a holdover from being originally designed for the other campaign.

Background wise, having proficiency in Stealth and Survival make a lot of thematic sense for someone with a background training as a warrior/shaman for an island-living half-orc tribe. Those skills fit together well for the custom background as a hunter and warrior.

With low intelligence, DM ruled that I have knowledge of my own tribe's history and religion and the plants and creatures of the natural environment there. But I'm far from there, now, and that knowledge doesn't apply to the world in general.

[sambojin]

Kind of why I suggested Insight as a possible third option. It applies every time your party talks or socially interacts with anything/ anyone. And it doesn't really hurt to have two characters with it (it's kind of like having variable advantage on knowing intentions and lies/truthfulness for the party. It's a great support skill, and almost always comes up during very important interactions at some point. It doesn't feel "powerful", but it is very useful). Easy enough to character it in as well. After Initimidating so many people, your Barb would probably have a pretty good idea of people's reactions in various situations, both truthful and not.
(And much like Athletics + Acrobatics, Intimidation + Insight + Perception does make for a more rounded character in that pillar)

What is your full stat line and party make-up?

I will concede, Athletics /= Acrobatics. Acrobatics does do some different things, and can make for a more mobile character alongside Athletics.

So it sort of depends on what you want. Any of the skills can find a use, but how useful and how often does vary a fair bit depending on campaign and DM. As well as what you want your character to be good at.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'd suggest stealth. As an unarmored warrior, you can be a scout with a bit of punching power. You can also be a rogue's back up for certain reco missions.

[Hiro Quester]

Yeah insight would also often be useful. But we have others who are great at insight checks.

My previous PC was the backup scout, because we only have one other who is relatively fragile. (artificer/rogue). I have okay wisdom (12) but 14 dex. So I can be reasonably helpful at scouting in dangerous situations when the artificer doesn’t want to risk it.

Plus it fits the character background thematically.