View Full Version : Revised sorcerer

drunk surgeon
2007-12-05, 02:31 AM
Hi, I’m new to the forum. I’m in the very early stages of developing a setting, and this forum seems like a good place to come for feedback.

About the only thing I know for sure about the setting is that I want to streamline the magic system, and the revised spellcaster class is the focus of this thread.

I want the revised class to reflect the following changes in the magic system:

* All magic functions according to one set of principles, and there is only one base spellcasting class, the sorcerer. Prestige classes will exist, but they reflect refinement in the sorcerer’s innate ability to use magic, not an alternate power source.

* While deities are widely worshiped, they play no active role in the setting, and are not a direct source of magical power.

* The setting is somewhat lower-powered than a standard setting, with no wands, no staves and no spells above sixth level.

The revised sorcerer class will learn and cast spells in the same way as the standard sorcerer, but will have access to all spells on both the wizard and cleric list. If the same spell appears on both lists at different levels, use the lower level. There is no specialization for sorcerers, though most prestige classes will specialize.

To make up for the expanded spell list, a sorcerer will have fewer spell slots per day, but the number of spells known remains the same. Also, the sorcerer does not get a familiar, though some prestige classes will have that benefit.

The sorcerer is the only spellcasting base class. The wizard, cleric and druid will be prestige classes available to sorcerers, though they will be much more specialized than the default versions. I‘ll be developing those once I get the sorcerer squared away. There will be no paladins or bards. Rangers will be a non-spellcasting variant, either homebrew or the one from Complete Warrior.

The next post has the details of the revised sorcerer class. I would be grateful for any feedback, especially with regard to balance.

drunk surgeon
2007-12-05, 02:33 AM
Universal Sorcerer

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d6
Class Skills: Same as SRD Sorcerer
BAB: Same as SRD Sorcerer
Saves: Same as SRD Sorcerer

{table]Spells per Day
Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 5 2 — — — — —
2nd 6 3 — — — — —
3rd 6 4 — — — — —
4th 6 5 2 — — — —
5th 6 5 3 — — — —
6th 6 5 4 2 — — —
7th 6 5 5 3 — — —
8th 6 5 5 4 2 — —
9th 6 5 5 5 3 — —
10th 6 5 5 5 4 2 —
11th 6 5 5 5 5 3 —
12th 6 5 5 5 5 4 2
13th 6 5 5 5 5 5 3
14th 6 5 5 5 5 5 5
15th 6 6 5 5 5 5 5
16th 6 6 6 5 5 5 5
17th 6 6 6 6 5 5 5
18th 6 6 6 6 6 5 5
19th 6 6 6 6 6 6 5
20th 6 6 6 6 6 6 6[/table]

Spells Known: Choose from Arcane and Divine lists
{table]Spells Known
Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 4 2 — — — — —
2nd 5 2 — — — — —
3rd 5 3 — — — — —
4th 6 3 1 — — — —
5th 6 4 2 — — — —
6th 7 4 2 1 — — —
7th 7 5 3 2 — — —
8th 8 5 3 2 1 — —
9th 8 5 4 3 2 — —
10th 9 5 4 3 2 1 —
11th 9 5 5 4 3 2 —
12th 9 5 5 4 3 2 1
13th 9 5 5 4 3 2 2
14th 9 6 5 4 4 3 2
15th 9 6 5 4 5 4 3
16th 9 6 6 4 5 4 3
17th 9 7 6 4 5 5 3
18th 9 7 6 5 5 5 3
19th 9 7 7 5 5 5 3
20th 9 7 7 5 5 5 4[/table]

Bonus feats: The sorcerer learns a bonus meta-magic feat at levels 11, 14, 17 and 20.

If meta-magic pushes a spell above level six, the sorcerer must expend two or more spell slots whose total equals the spell's effective level. At least one of the slots must be equal to or greater than the unadjusted level of the spell.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Sorcerers may wear light armor without risk of spell failure. Medium or heavy armor incurs risk of spell failure as per SRD. Spell failure risk applies to both arcane- and divine-list spells.

My rationale for the increased hit points and slightly relaxed armor restriction is that even with the wider spell list, the reduction in spell slots and total absence of wands and staves mean the sorcerer is more likely to engage in direct combat. But I'm not totally attached to this change, and may go back to standard hit dice and armor if people here think the boost is unbalanced.

2007-12-05, 03:39 AM
Looks good so far, it's an interesting idea.... but I'd be very careful if I were you... If there was a class with acess to all wizard and cleric spells... why would anyone play anything else... by picking the right spells... they could lob massive damage when they wanted, heal amazingly when they wanted... and buff themselves crazy when they want... It'll completely make every other class redundent unless it's for flavour.... if you're going to increase available spell list so greatly...I'd really reduce their spells per day to reduce the room for abuse.

2007-12-05, 03:58 AM
It isn't completely clear...but I believe this is the *only* spellcaster of any kind (including divine) for your setting?

Assuming that...
With no spells above 6th level...even with the advantages you've given your sorcerer I think he's underpowered. I'd give him the light armor proficiency and either wizard or fighter bonus feats at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15, and 20th.

@Previous Post
Yes, he is the ultimate universal caster. However with there being only *one* spellcasting class...do you want to do away with magical healing and being able to raise dead the altogether? I didn't think so.

2007-12-05, 06:55 AM
Other than the prospect of one extra spell per day, there is no real reason to take this class beyond level 14.

2007-12-05, 07:19 AM
You will do better basing this on the Bard, I think, who has a very similar casting progression. Change up the spell list, drop most the Bardic abilities, and add a lot more spells per day - +2 spells per day per spell level, perhaps, so that it caps out at 6 across the board.

And Nebo: The Sorcerer spells known progression for spells at 6th and lower caps at 15th, not 14th. After that you just take levels of Fighter/Barbarian/Warblade/Whatever and Practiced Spellcaster.

2007-12-05, 07:25 AM
Well, that serves me right for not looking at the spells known. I second Jack Smith's idea of basing the casting off a bard.

2007-12-05, 08:54 AM
Well, that serves me right for not looking at the spells known. I second Jack Smith's idea of basing the casting off a bard.

Thirded. If you really want high-level powers, perhaps look at a very, very small range of 1/day spells granted at the sorcerer progression.

2007-12-05, 11:47 AM
You might want to take a look at the Revised Adept class I created.


I think it would fit what your looking for. The guy I have playing one in my game really likes the class as well.

drunk surgeon
2007-12-05, 10:31 PM
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. To answer RandomFellow: The sorcerer will be the only base class with spells, but there will be at least half a dozen spell-using prestige classes. Each prestige class will be very narrowly focused and will have levels of sorcerer as a prerequisite. So, all spellcasters will be sorcerers, but many will also have additional specialties.

Regarding Jack Smith's suggestion about using the bard progression: I'll consider it, but it looks like some of the levels on the bard progression have the same problem with some of the levels only giving you one added spell slot.

Anyway, for now I'll leave the spell slots the same, and try to solve the dead levels issue from another angle.

I've revised the write-up to include additional spells known post-15th level. If I did my math right, the sorcerer now has total spells known the same as SRD, just all of them sixth level or lower. I think this helps with the goal of making the class more versatile, but less powerful at higher levels.

I've also added a couple feats.

By, the way, can anyone tell me how to format the tables to make the columns line up?

Thanks again, everyone.

2007-12-06, 10:47 AM
Add a pipe | between each object in the table (like Level, 0th, 1st) and it'll line it up, as long as you keep the pipes in the same place.

For an example...


And so on and so forth.

then when you finish it'll look like this...

I kind of like the idea, but changing it to Bard progression _might_ be better.