What characters do you think could beat Sauron?

[Setra]

Not quite a vs. but I figured it'd be a better than just going 'Sauron vs. this' or 'Sauron vs. that' all over the place.

For characters who could beat Sauron AND his armies I'd vote:

Kefka
Kid Buu
Goku
Hellmaster Fibrizo
The Defense System of the Book of Night Sky (Does that count?)

For characters who could beat him in solo combat:
Ranma

...I'll think of more later.

[Rutee]

The overwhelmingly vast majority of RPG Protagonists. Hm, a big bad with no world breaking power, who's specialty is the same sorta crap most PCs have to shrug off mid game (EG Subversion/corruption)? Vs. people who fight off Big Bads who have enough power to break or ruin their world, at the very least? Yeah, I'm going with the RPG Protagonists. Sauron is like, lower-mid tier of BBEG's in terms of raw power, at best.

In single combat against him, I'd love to watch Xemnas or Ansem from Kingdom Hearts beat the stuffing out of him.

"All that is evil in Middle Earth strengthens me!"
"Really? It's really cool that you draw power from the Darkness of a single continent. Really. Did I mention that the Darkness in Men's Hearts throughout an entire universe fuels my power."

Also fun would be the various protagonists of Super Robot Wars, whom stand against Super Technology and deific forces. Masaki Andoh in Cybuster, Elemental Lord of Wind, vs. Sauron would be fun. Or letting Shuu Shirakawa in Granzon Black Hole Cluster him to hell and back.. (Okay, not a protagonist, but still).

[Eerie]

Frodo could beat Sauron.

Wait...

[Lyesmith]

is the one on one combat phsyical or mental?
Or can it be either?

[Rutee]

Since his victory in either seems to be constantly assumed, go with whichever you prefer, I guess.

[Lyesmith]

Granny Weatherwax (Mental) then.
Hat. Hat. Hat.

Poor Sauron:smallfrown:

[SmartAlec]

The main cast of Lord of the Rings: The Third Age actually DO beat Sauron. In a fight.

Not the most faithful of adaptions, that game.

[Setra]

The cast of Lord of the Rings: The Third Age actually DO beat Sauron.
Yeah but they'd still lose in a vs. thread.

[Ossian]

Just ANY hyped up manga character could win against Sauron.
Goku? No problem.
Any Sayan, see above.
A giant robot? Well, one fast onough. After all, Barad Dur has no deflect shield, so, pick a beam rifle from a ZZ80 and blast him into oblivion.
Devilman? Any day of the week.
The guy in Tekkaman Blade? GEt my tekspear in your chest and stay nailed there while I pick your finger (just tear it away) and go flying over pegas to mount doom.

Who could beat any of the above + Sauron+ Voldemort+ The Witch King and Darth Vader? A Gold Saint from Saint Seya's first series. Pick one...(I'd go for Aiolia, nice plasma based attacks)

O.

[Guts]

Alucard from Hellsing could own him (and possibly the rest of Mordor too....), Anyways I think you guys are being a bit too harsh on the Sauron supporters. Excluding a few it's not like they will argue Sauron winning against someone who could shatter a universe with a nod of the head:smalltongue: .

[Lyesmith]

or Granny Weatherwax.:smalltongue:

I guess Superman could probably take him, as well as a lot of the comics-verse(s) population. Jean Grey as a certainty
(I know very little of comics, so paron my ignorance)

[Rutee]

Yeah but they'd still lose in a vs. thread.

To be perfectly fair, that game's not canon, and takes place in the Middle Earth-verse. I wouldn't count it either, I'm pretty sure.

[Selrahc]

Who could beat Sauron?

Just about any Superhero team. Or really any of the big villains that they face.
the same goes for high powered manga.
A Space Marine chapter. (Or any other powerful Warhammer 40,000 force)
The Lich King
The big bads from the old world of darkness. (Antedeluvians, oracles, etc.)
The big bads from the new world of Darkness (Incarnae, Greater Qashallim, Archmages)
Exalted characters
The First from Buffy(Assuming she was out of the hellmouth). Wolfram and Hart.
The Covenant. Or the UNSC.
The Galactic Empire
Any of the Demigods or Gods from Scion.
Any of the gods from DnD.
Epic characters from DnD (Like Raistlin, or Elminster)
Ankh Morpork. (Golem army, backed by Leonard Da Quirms inventions, backed up by powerful Wizards)
The Computer from Paranoia would crush those treasonous commie orcs with one of its more implausible super weapons.
Neo
The Padishah Emperor, Paul Atreides and his legions.
Dream, Destiny, Death, Delirium, Destruction, Despair, Desire.
The Aesir and Vanir (Norse gods)
The Dodekatheon (Greek Gods)
The Egyptian gods.
Doctor Who

[factotum]

Well, let's be honest, like as not any protagonist from any fantasy series could beat Sauron, because they have the Power of Plot on their side and he doesn't. Therefore, I propose that the Powerpuff Girls and Spongebob Squarepants would both give Sauron a thorough kicking. :smallsmile:

[Lyesmith]

The powerpuff girls are a given.
but *Spongebob*!?
Do be serious:smalltongue:

[Darth Mario]

Better ask: Who COULDN'T beat Sauron? We'll come up with a much shorter list.

[Ossian]

Well, Sauron still has the mind tearing-scorching-ripping-probing thing. So, he still does stand a chance, though not necessarily in a direct pit fight.
Well, + we can say this about Sauron.
ALL the characters (aside from the USA-borne comics heroes) that were listed as possible winners have at least one episode in their backstory when they were stopped by ugly honey dripping nonsense like Love, Compassion and other cheesy stuff that stayed their hans and made them hesitate and ponder over the meaning of their powerful but empty lives in a long flashback that lasted several episodes....

Now, Harry's mom, try to stop Sauron with love and good luck with that...

O.

PS
Did I forget to mention that the One Ring is forged partially with Kryptonite? Just in case...

[Mr.Moron]

Masaki Andoh in Cybuster, Elemental Lord of Wind, vs. Sauron would be fun. Or letting Shuu Shirakawa in Granzon Black Hole Cluster him to hell and back.

I really don't think the SRW folks could do it. Certainly there is something to be said for their over-the-top attack animations. However, they're still just people in big mechs. They've got no real protection against the supernatural. I suppose an argument could be made for psychodrivers, but neither of characters you suggest have any TK ability at all.

[Ceska]

Kefka
Sure Kafka kicks ass, he's a kick-ass writer after all, but if he could beat Sauron?

Oh wait, sorry.

[Runolfr]

The main cast of Lord of the Rings: The Third Age actually DO beat Sauron. In a fight.

Not the most faithful of adaptions, that game.

Hey, let's not forget that Gil-Galad and Elendil also beat Sauron in a fight. He's powerful, but he's far from unbeatable.

[Rare Pink Leech]

Frodo could beat Sauron.

Wait...

But Frodo didn't beat Sauron. In the end, the ring finally corrupted Frodo, leaving him unable to destroy the ring. It took Gollum wrestling Frodo for the ring to take the ring from Frodo, and some luck to cause Gollum to fall into the fires of Mount Doom.

As to the original question, it's kinda tough to answer. On the one hand, Lord of the Rings is a pretty low-powe setting, so there are lots of characters who could easily defeat a physical Sauron and his armies. On the other hand, it's a bit vague what Sauron as he exists during Lord of the Rings can do. Assuming the ring is safe, is there any way to destroy him? You could destroy his armies and Bara-Dur (or however you spell it), but what about his spirit?

[EvilElitest]

Sauron is like, lower-mid tier of BBEG's in terms of raw power, at best.

In single combat against him, I'd love to watch Xemnas or Ansem from Kingdom Hearts beat the stuffing out of him.

"All that is evil in Middle Earth strengthens me!"
"Really? It's really cool that you draw power from the Darkness of a single continent. Really. Did I mention that the Darkness in Men's Hearts throughout an entire universe fuels my power."

1. If that was true, wouldn't you be having an easier job on these vs. threads?
2. Xemnas and Ansem are possible the worst taticions i've ever seen. They have proven totally useless at taking out an emotionally angstly teenager with a big key and no brains.
3. Darkness in mens hearts, something KG is so good at not defining. Remember, KG's only makes sense if you look at everything in terms of black and white

As for who i think could beat sauron, Kefka, Sargaros, Vecna, a few others
from,
EE
just to point out, this is a very badly orginized thread? In what rules. Sauron vs. Dracula (oops) i ment Alucard from Hellsing would win in a tatical contenst, but in a gun match? No way

[sealemon]

Tru, dat. Plus, just how powerful IS Sauron if he actually HAD the One, True Ring?


PS
Did I forget to mention that the One Ring is forged partially with Kryptonite? Just in case...

Doesn't have to be. It's magic, so Supes wouldn't have any more resistance to its corruption than anyone else...pictures Superman with the One Ring...kinda scary, actually

Shazam would own Sauron and his ring. He's already proved he can easily resist magical corrupting effects in previous DC story arcs.

[Selrahc]

ALL the characters (aside from the USA-borne comics heroes) that were listed as possible winners have at least one episode in their backstory when they were stopped by ugly honey dripping nonsense like Love, Compassion and other cheesy stuff that stayed their hans and made them hesitate and ponder over the meaning of their powerful but empty lives in a long flashback that lasted several episodes....


Nope. Almost all of mine were either sci fi empires, or high powered RPG monsters/characters, or mythological creatures.

That only applies to the anime characters really.

[Arioch]

Orannis, the Ninth Bright Shiner from the Abhorsen trilogy by Garth Nix, whose entire purpose is to destroy worlds and who can only be bound by representatives of all the eight other Shiners.

Sauron: Cower before me, puny mortals!
Orannis: BOOM
*dead*

[Haruki-kun]

Half the Final Fantasy Characters could beat him.

Goku
Ichigo
Belldandy with broken Seals
Louise de la Valiere
Mai-HiME
Osaka :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smallwink:

The Bad guy from the Seventh Tower

[EvilElitest]

Guys, wouldn't hte discussion of such characters (Kefka vs. Sauron, Superman vs. Sauron, Link vs. Sauron) have its own thread. What kills vs. threads are silly vs. threads that make the other ones lose popularity. I like vs. thread when they are well organized, please don't destroy this by a mass of sillyness. Yes we know people can defeat Sauron, there are a lot of powerful people in different fantasy. What makes it interesting is two closely powered people fighting it out. So the Warlock Lord vs. Sauron might be interesting, or Asmodeus vs. Sauorn (I don't think sauron could win this one in terms of miltary) but a whole thread dedicated to finding out who can kill sauron? It is just silly, you can do that with any charcter?

Who do you think could beat link existented in the days of link vs. sephiroth
What next? Who do you think could defeat asmodeus, who do you think could defeat seph? Who do you think could defeat Xykon? I mean come on people? Vs. threads are fun, but only when they are orginized. Don't ruin it
from,
EE

[Lyesmith]

I think this one might be more of a spoof thread spawned by the fanatical devotion to "lolzsauron"

He'd still lose to Weatherwax though.

[Poison_Fish]

I really don't think the SRW folks could do it. Certainly there is something to be said for their over-the-top attack animations. However, they're still just people in big mechs. They've got no real protection against the supernatural. I suppose an argument could be made for psychodrivers, but neither of characters you suggest have any TK ability at all.

And this is why we move a step ahead to Gurren Lagann. Not protected outside the mech? Spiral power, a man's perseverance, and kicking reason to the curb triumphs all.

And if he does get the mech... It's not fair to pit something the size of a galaxy, that rips holes through space and time, against a minor god like being such as Sauron.

For exalted, I'd really only rate Sauron, even with the ring and limitless energy, an essence 6. He's a minor god, and the exalted are god killers.

I'd say the type moon verse as well. Mostly anyone from that, in fact, would drive Sauron nuts or insta-gib him. Or both.

Yeah.. there is a lot out there that can take care of him.

[WalkingTarget]

Hmm, Superman is weak against magic, so there's a problem.

Captain Marvel... Ok, I haven't read many Shazam! comics, but in (the non-DC canonical) Kingdom Come story he's brainwashed, so if we can accept that as evidence, I'd say mindcrushing is an option. Just a thought.

Yeah, pretty much anything that could destroy the universe has a shot, so there's lots of videogame antagonists right there. Anything meant to represent something on the power scale equivalent to the Valar, easily (so most western pantheons' major deities, at least the ones who fight, and a fair number of eastern ones). Anything that would stand in for his former boss, so Morgoth/Shai'tan/Satan/etc.

My favorite is Vlad Taltos now that he has his Great Weapon (nullifies any magic sent his way, able to consume souls with a scratch - even of beings of god-level in that setting). Sauron probably wouldn't even see it coming since he doesn't seem like a credible threat otherwise (and with a phoenix-stone amulet, he's immune to psionics).

[Mikeavelli]

Brock Sampson.

[Lyesmith]

That's a given.
Also, Mikeavelli, i Love your avatar. it's great!

[Mikeavelli]

Wheee!

I wish I could draw this well - it's a close-up of a character portrait done by a friend of mine waaay back in the day.

Her (terribly outdated) site is http://www.signumfas.com/, and was drawing on commission in lieu of getting a real job last I heard.

[Rutee]

I really don't think the SRW folks could do it. Certainly there is something to be said for their over-the-top attack animations. However, they're still just people in big mechs. They've got no real protection against the supernatural. I suppose an argument could be made for psychodrivers, but neither of characters you suggest have any TK ability at all.

Uh.. you do know what you're talking about, right? Cybuster is /made/ of magic and supernatural. If not for magic and the direct blessing of Cyfis, God of Wind, it would not move. In some continuities, it will directly fuse with Cyfis. La Gias Alchemy (Responsible for Cybuster and the other Masoukishin) is one of the many technological disciplines that goes into the creation of the Granzon and Neo Granzon. In multiple timelines, SRW people face off against outright Deities. I'm pretty sure Shu and Masaki's machines have protection from the supernatural.


I'd say the type moon verse as well. Mostly anyone from that, in fact, would drive Sauron nuts or insta-gib him. Or both.
Hah. Gilgamesh against him would be awesome. Given that he seems to have the original copy of every single mythic blade ever in the Gate of Babylon.. I wonder if that'd apply to Tolkien too? Tolkien borrowed heavily from Norse, and I know he's got the original versions of Gram and Fafnir..

And of course, there's Arcueid..



1. If that was true, wouldn't you be having an easier job on these vs. threads?
2. Xemnas and Ansem are possible the worst taticions i've ever seen. They have proven totally useless at taking out an emotionally angstly teenager with a big key and no brains.
3. Darkness in mens hearts, something KG is so good at not defining. Remember, KG's only makes sense if you look at everything in terms of black and white
1. Bang your head against a brick wall as an effort to understand the mysteries of Life; You will have learned the futility of presenting logical, intelligent arguments to yourself. Also, "He breaks planets!". "...Um, well, uh!" has been the counterpoint to displays of outright power.
2. You're actually vastly underrating Sora here.
3. KG? You can't even get KH right? and what are you talking about? They show it pretty darn well throughout the course of the games. Further, Black and White Only? Did the fact hat Mickey has the Dark (As in, it too works off of evil) Keyblade and that Riku has a Gray one (Middle path between the Darkness and the Light) not get noticed by you?

An original note, sorta.. Laharl, Zetta, and Rozalin from Disgaea series. Laharl breaks a universe in a fit of rage. Assuming corruption is possible, it's a non-issue. You're breaking a /universe/. Just stand really, really, REALLY far away. Like, "And waaay off in the distance, if you have really, really powerful telescopes, you could see the Milky Way".

[Poison_Fish]

Hah. Gilgamesh against him would be awesome. Given that he seems to have the original copy of every single mythic blade ever in the Gate of Babylon.. I wonder if that'd apply to Tolkien too? Tolkien borrowed heavily from Norse, and I know he's got the original versions of Gram and Fafnir..

And of course, there's Arcueid...

I was thinking Shiki as well. "What... you resurrect when killed and all that Jazz... well, that's cool, I guess. Oh, by the way, you cease to exist. No, I'm serious, your concept is now gone." *Stab* "Who was I talking to?"

The holy grail might start stealing characters from LoTR for heroic souls. "Hah, Sauron will destroy your... whaaa two damn little hobbits!!!!?".

And yeah.. Shirou/Gilg/Archer.. let's not even get into that.

[Mr.Moron]

Uh.. you do know what you're talking about, right? Cybuster is /made/ of magic and supernatural. If not for magic and the direct blessing of Cyfis, God of Wind, it would not move. In some continuities, it will directly fuse with Cyfis. La Gias Alchemy (Responsible for Cybuster and the other Masoukishin) is one of the many technological disciplines that goes into the creation of the Granzon and Neo Granzon. In multiple timelines, SRW people face off against outright Deities. I'm pretty sure Shu and Masaki's machines have protection from the supernatural.


Probably not as much as you. You're clearly pulling stuff from games that were never localized. My SRW knowledge is limited to OG and OG2. Those games never went in-depth into Cybuster and it's background, certainly nothing magical. One of the drawbacks of not speaking Japanese I suppose.

At least in the time line that America has been exposed to, I'd argue no; no protection from the supernatural. Clearly that isn't the case in all of them however.

[Rutee]

At least in the time line that America has been exposed to, I'd argue no; no protection from the supernatural. Clearly that isn't the case in all of them however.

Well, given that the other machines and plotlines cleave closely to their originals, I will hazard a guess and say "It hasn't come up yet", since Masaki's not the main character here; Excellen and Kyosuke are. They're not fighting mystical enemies here, after all; They've fought Balmar, the Inspectors, the DC and all similar groups, the Shadow Mirrors, the Einst, and destroyed the Ancestors a millenia before they became an issue. None of the above really has access to magic, so Cybuster, Granzon, and later, Valsione's mystical protections will not be an issue.

If an OG game decides to dive back into La Gias (A distinct possibility, as Masaki and Lune head down there at the end of OG2.. but there's so many enemies to fight, with Dunamis, the Fury, the Database, the Guests, and the Balmar Empire's full forces, off the top of my head >.>), it'll probably be made more evident for the rest. Alternately, for Deities, it could just go into Alpha timeline events (Against the Garden of Baral, and the Balmar empire in force) and that'd let Deities come to the fore. (Keisar Ephes and.. whoever the heck was in charge of the Garden). Alternately, they could head down into La Gias and fight the Dark God down there.

Truthfully, I'm pretty sure we're due for a La Gias visit, at the least. Valsione and Cybuster have fallen too far behind statistically. This'd be a good time for the Cyfis fusion and Valsione Reppu plotlines (The latter of which finishes with Valsione being rebuilt with La Gias Alchemy)

On that note, the Choujikin (RyuKoOh and all its similar machines) work entirely on Taoist principles and TK, so I'm pretty sure there's another machine that we can legitimately claim has some supernatural protection. In point of fact, by Chinese standards, the Choujikin are deities in their own right.

[warty goblin]

Well, because I'm tired of lolzSauron accusations, I'll present my list of beings that I think would beat Sauron:

Raistlin Majere. After all, he does solo an entire pantheon of pretty powerful gods.

Pretty much any supernatural entity from WH40K.

Thor (norse god, not comic book character. I don't know that the comic book character couldn't since my knowledge thereof stops at there being a comic book Thor).

The Valar.

Zeus.

Maybe Heracles in a straight fight.

Anything monstrous from HP. Lovecraft.

Most anime characters probably could as well, although they might have problems with Sauron simply killing them during their attack buildup animations. Hey, there's a world to be taken over, what's a dark lord to do, wait around forever?

[Mr.Moron]

Everything before my second quote

It should be noted, I really don't know much about what you're saying. Most of those names I've really only heard in passing at SRW fan sites. My point was simply that at least in the universe as presented, there has been no mention of magic. I'm certainly not challenging it exists in other time lines, or that they won't visit in OG3 or whatever. I'm only speaking to how things stand in the "OG" universe, as it's the only one I'm familiar with.



On that note, the Choujikin (RyuKoOh and all its similar machines) work entirely on Taoist principles and TK, so I'm pretty sure there's another machine that we can legitimately claim has some supernatural protection. In point of fact, by Chinese standards, the Choujikin are deities in their own right.

Like I said, there might be an argument for things running on TK. However, TK hasn't exactly proven to be the greatest protection against mind control in the OG timeline. Though again, the case might be different in others.

That said, that if almost anything from SRW managed to get a shot off I don't thing anything short of another JRPG character would stand much of a chance. I mean the PS2 remake of OG/OG2 clearly shows that the HTB cannon shoots opponents into the sun. That's pretty hard to deal with in most settings, I think.

[Winterwind]

That's a pretty convincing list, warty goblin. I second this one.

It's also the first list in this thread I found convincing in any way.

[turkishproverb]

Morpheus, The Dream Lord.
Destiny
Death
Desire
Despair
Destruction
Delirium

[Hawriel]

The Nothing

[Xefas]

Don't forget any single hero from either of the Warhammer universes (or are they the same universe? I don't think I've ever gotten a straight answer).

Probably a few of the Magic: The Gathering cards. Anything with the phrase "Destroy target artifact", obviously.

Perhaps a team consisting of Crash Bandicoot, Vash the Stampede, and Malcolm Reynolds.

Kratos. Either of them.

[....]

A nuclear weapon.

Any captain of the Enterprise with his ship and trusty sidekicks.

Basically any anime character, as long as that anime dosn't involve only schoolgirls (without demons or tentacles) and their pretend gay relationships with one another.

Hobbits (obviously).

The martians from War of the Worlds.

AMAZO.

Any one of the Elder Gods, Great Old Ones, ect...

Roland Deschain.

EDIT: Oh, and the Saint of Killers, obviously.

[EvilElitest]

1. Bang your head against a brick wall as an effort to understand the mysteries of Life; You will have learned the futility of presenting logical, intelligent arguments to yourself. Also, "He breaks planets!". "...Um, well, uh!" has been the counterpoint to displays of outright power.
2. You're actually vastly underrating Sora here.
3. KG? You can't even get KH right? and what are you talking about? They show it pretty darn well throughout the course of the games. Further, Black and White Only? Did the fact hat Mickey has the Dark (As in, it too works off of evil) Keyblade and that Riku has a Gray one (Middle path between the Darkness and the Light) not get noticed by you?
.
1. Somebody is bitter, but i've heard worst whines. I don't need to break my head apart, i already know the rules of life,:smallcool: , break something down logically, you get results. Some people like to avoiding hearing these results, but life isn't perfect:smallsigh:
2. Sora? He is a cliche fool. I imagine him as a sick combination of Naurto and Cloud, with the most annoying and unrealistic foolish traits of each. Along with inhuman fighting skills, that allow his ill precived sense of justice to seem all the better (might makes right generally). He is generic, and uninteresting, as well as a total moron. Hell, give me a remotely realistic setting, take away plot armor and railroading, and give me access to some money and I could kill him with a basic assasination. I despise protagonists who walk through stories winning simple because the plot demands it, even if they are logiclly unsuited to this postion. Hell, i liked Eragon as a man character better, and that is saying a lot. He has fighting skills going for him (really, who the hell uses a key?) that if you understand even basic fighting tatics, will quickly realize are awful. Frankly, he is my least favorite main character
3. sorry, KH. Oh sorry, i forgot two characters have dark colored keys (dark=evil), very morally stirring there. of course, the fact that all evil seems to come from the vaugly defined "evil in mens hearts"
Not possible to admit that maybe evil isn't actually inherit, and that there are sometimes other moral perspectives, not this annoying sense of perfect right and wrong (oh i forgot, narrow grey, just enough to make Riku have his heroic angst)
Gods, i hate that game,


Back on topic, I think that any D&D god could defeat Sauron if given all of their people, (debatable possible), The US miltary, and i'll second WG on Rastialin
from,
EE

[EvilElitest]

The Nothing

OK, never mind, that is what could destory Sauron
from,
EE

[warty goblin]

That's a pretty convincing list, warty goblin. I second this one.

It's also the first list in this thread I found convincing in any way.

Why thank you very much.

EE, we should do a thread sometime about how badly Raistlin owns Sauron. Just for kicks.

Oh, and let me add to that list: Lugh the Long Handed.

edit: maybe. Would certainly be able to do damage. Uncertain as to whether he's got what it takes to go all the way though.

[Setra]

The Flood
The Swarm

[Rutee]

Which is The Swarm? I'm pretty sure The Flood was the Borg-like thing in Halo..

Do we mean the Zerg, or a different Swarm?

[Seraph]

Some people like to avoiding hearing these results, but life isn't perfect:smallsigh:

like you? I seem to remember you deliberately ignoring and misunderstanding counterpoints to your arguments for pages on end.

[EvilElitest]

Why thank you very much.

EE, we should do a thread sometime about how badly Raistlin owns Sauron. Just for kicks.

Oh, and let me add to that list: Lugh the Long Handed.

edit: maybe. Would certainly be able to do damage. Uncertain as to whether he's got what it takes to go all the way though.

Us arguing against Sauron? Well i would have to drop my dentail plan, but sounds good. Better wait til the Lk vs. Sauron thread is over though

like you? I seem to remember you deliberately ignoring and misunderstanding counterpoints to your arguments for pages on end.

this coming from a guy who accused me and WG of trolling the Cthulu vs. Sauron thread out of love for the character? Yeah, double standard. But you know what, it really isn't worth my time, i've heard this cr*p before
i don't have a problem with you disliking my methods, but if you do that have the guts to go to the thread in question and prove that my points are illogical. If not, that stop this childish harassment. If you can argue with me in the right place and the right manner (direct counter points on the right thread) then don't say anything at all, i'm sick of you trying to discredit me over a vs. thread. It isn't worth the trouble and it is immature, so stop wasting my time thank you
from,
EE
Edit-sorry to other readers for the outburst

Warty goblin, i think a better idea would be to first make a thread called "Vs. thread rules" so we don't have to go over them ever single time

[Lyesmith]

Warty goblin, i think a better idea would be to first make a thread called "Vs. thread rules" so we don't have to go over them ever single time

Each thread has its own rules, i do belive.
Unless one of these new ones you plan on imposing on all threads of the vs genre is "Tolkien = win"?

[EvilElitest]

Each thread has its own rules, i do belive.
Unless one of these new ones you plan on imposing on all threads of the vs genre is "Tolkien = win"?

Dear gods, bitterness. I have already shown i don't belive Tolkien =win, as seen on the Sauron vs. Cthulo thread. The fact you have to resort to such an immature manner of attack? Dear gods, i've said it before and i've said it again, problem with my methods? PM or face me on the thread. Otherwise, stop these pathetic insults, they don't accomplish anything except proving that you can't get over the other thread.
I mean the fact that i just said to WG that I would take his side in a Rastilin vs. Sauron thread, i mean come on
As for rules, i was talking more about rules of siting sources, tatics, rules for points and counter points, valid or not, and interpretations.
from,
EE

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm ashamed that two people with SOS Brigade sigs haven't put forth Haruhi yet. I think she'd find Middle Earth so massively boring she'd wipe out Sauron almost immediately...then replace him with a less cliché Big Bad. Probably from space. Well, more explicitly from space.

Anyway, I have to agree with the Super Robot Wars cast. If they can defeat Hideaki Anno's raging misanthropy (see Alpha 3), they can beat Sauron. Same goes for the Gurren-Lagann crew, who really need to be in an SRW game already.

From other sources:
The Galactic Empire (as long as the orcs don't start using rocks and tree trunks, and they had a semi-competent commander. They'd end up wearing the Ring, though)
The Rebel Alliance (regardless)
Any group from Warhammer 40K, who are the real overpowered people here.
Doom Guy
Jack Bauer (discussed in another thread)
The Luggage (discussed in another thread)
Solid Snake. His progenitor would win, but end up wearing the Ring.

[Rutee]

I'm ashamed that two people with SOS Brigade sigs haven't put forth Haruhi yet. I think she'd find Middle Earth so massively boring she'd wipe out Sauron almost immediately...then replace him with a less cliché Big Bad. Probably from space. Well, more explicitly from space.

I figured she'd watch the movie and have enough fun to not nuke Middle Earth.

Now if she read Tolkien's books, that place is going boom..... :P


If they can defeat Hideaki Anno's raging misanthropy
....Pffthahahahaha. For that matter, they also beat Tomino's Kill 'em All instincts... XD

[Nerd-o-rama]

I do not reference Tomino because it has taken me far, far too long to get into Gundam, and I have still seen very little (mostly because I insisted on starting from the beginning, and it's hard to find copies of 0079).

EDIT: Also, Tomino never created a supernatural apocalypse instigated a five-mile-tall nekkid albino chick. Sauron totally would if he could.

[Rutee]

Oh, he's famous for his nickname (AKA Kill 'em All) independent of Gundam. I think Space Runaway Ideon is the most famous for it.

Incidentally, Ideon can break the universe. As depressed as the characters can get, when you have that kind of range, it's not even an issue.

[Poison_Fish]

[QUOTE=Nerd-o-rama;3624008]I'm ashamed that two people with SOS Brigade sigs haven't put forth Haruhi yet. I think she'd find Middle Earth so massively boring she'd wipe out Sauron almost immediately...then replace him with a less cliché Big Bad. Probably from space. Well, more explicitly from space.[QUOTE]

Actually, I think she'd replace him with the soul of Mikuru.

"E...e..eeveryone. Ple-lease .. fear me!!!"

And don't even get me started at the sudden level of moe she'd insert into the universe.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I would so read/watch that.

[Talkkno]

Pretty much any planeswalker from Magic the gathering.

[Tpewop]

This doesn't really seem like much a difficult task. The only truly powerful thing he did was create the rings and manage to have an army. Strength-wise, I would consider him pretty pathetic.

As for people who could beat him, just about anyone who could manage to sever a finger? Even a normal human prince was able to do that.

[Dhavaer]

Reshar.
Any sci-fi 'verse with space flight and remote controls.
Samael.
Great A'Tuin.
Susan Sto-Helit.
Astarael.
A Xeelee.
A Dalek.
Mario.

[Winterwind]

I don't recall when I saw so many posts I did completely disagree with the last time.

I would start with asking the question, how many people are there who could as much as look upon him, have his full attention and not have their soul burnt out and their will corrupted.

For instance, I concede that Susan Sto-Helit might begin to qualify for that.

Or, in other words, it takes someone very special to be able to stand up to a demigod of pure evil. It's not so much about raw power even; it's about strength of will. That's why all these high-tech pilots and what not do not seem like good candidates to me. Elendil and Isildur may not have had their firepower, but they had the grandeur, the greatness of soul, the blood of Numenor going in their favour, they were not just normal people. Anyone who does not have this kind of grandeur or a spark of divinity should not dare to step before the Dark Lord.

[Emperor Ing]

Darth Revan! Of course!

Wait, scratch that, any random sith lord

Vader, tyrannus, bane, sidious, maul (okay maybe not darth maul), malak,

[Ossian]

Ah, I daresay Guts from berserk. It's just because I like the character though. He does have an unyelding determination to take down each and every ghastly spiritual evil demonic figure he stumbles upon, like it's his mission and goal in life, so he might be able to withstand the presence of Sauron+Ring just as well as Elendil could (only, for different reasons). He's marked by doom, and is definitely special, and closer to the spiritual world because of a prolonged contact with spirits and the world of darkness. He might even be able to harm Sauron's spiritual body.

It would be one hell of a climactic battle from which he'd probably come out a bit dead, but he'd do the job (9 feats spent on Die Hard, he can take standard actions even at -90 HP).

O.

[Executor]

This doesn't really seem like much a difficult task. The only truly powerful thing he did was create the rings and manage to have an army. Strength-wise, I would consider him pretty pathetic.

As for people who could beat him, just about anyone who could manage to sever a finger? Even a normal human prince was able to do that.

You clearly haven't read much into Middle-earth's backstory. Check out The Silmarillion and The History of Middle-earth and THEN come back and tell me that Sauron's pathetic. Because trust me: In the First and Second Ages, he was a pretty epic badass.

So, characters who could beat Sauron:

Morgoth Bauglir
Cthulhu
any C'tan
The God-Emperor of Man (oooh, I just had an idea. It'll be up this afternoon)
The Great Old Ones
Super Saiyan Goku (of course, Sauron's powerlevel is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND!!!)
Shai'tan
Rand al'Thor (when he becomes the Dragon Reborn fully)
Captain Jack Sparrow (because he's Captain Jack Sparrow)

[lipe44]

Easy, any Dragon Ball Z character could beat Sauron... Common at the start Vegeta destroyed a whole planet, they dont have to breathe(or otherwise how in several times they are outside planets and outside their ships)...

[Rutee]

Or, in other words, it takes someone very special to be able to stand up to a demigod of pure evil. It's not so much about raw power even; it's about strength of will. That's why all these high-tech pilots and what not do not seem like good candidates to me. Elendil and Isildur may not have had their firepower, but they had the grandeur, the greatness of soul, the blood of Numenor going in their favour, they were not just normal people. Anyone who does not have this kind of grandeur or a spark of divinity should not dare to step before the Dark Lord.

1: As to the Super Robot pilots, *That's what Super Robot anime is about*. Willpower, guts, and grit defeating really freaking long odds. Notwithstanding that the two I specifically named, Cybuster and Granzon? The former becomes a God, and both /fight/ Gods directly.
2. Most of the character's I've named in fact, take on Deities of pure evil. So yes, I'm pretty sure they do in fact have the willpower to have Sauron's full attention /and not be corrupted/. And those Deities typically have far more raw power.
3. The few that do not have the capability to destroy a Universe. Sauron can't directly corrupt someone on the opposite side of a continent. Destroy the universe from Middle Earth /orbit/ and you're untouchable by him. Notwithstanding that you're nuking a /universe/. You don't have to be in the same galaxy to break him when you can do that.
4. He is, going by the posts by the pro-LotR people, physically incapable of corrupting people of more raw power then he himself. Hence why Morgoth wasn't corrupted by him. Most of the people I have mentioned, to say the least, have significantly more raw power then him, because he /has/ very little raw power compared to most settings.

[ALOR]

hmmm lets see here would be a few I would choose

1. Prof X- he could protect himself from the rings corruption and force others to drop the ring in.
2. Hiro Nokemora- I'm sure I spelled his name horribly but he could have traveld back in time to before the ring was created, stopped time and killed sauron then.
3. The Ghostbusters- Proton packs are pretty devastating weapons :smallbiggrin: cross the streams and BOOM!!!
4. Capt Picard and the enterprise- While I doubt that the federation would interfere with middle earth (prime derective and all), they would do something with there deflector dish to offset saurons power or just phaser his armies from space, and then teleport the ring into mt doom.
5.Bill and Ted- Again with time travel on there side they could destroy the ring before it becomes a problem. Party on!!!!!!!!!!! :smallamused:

[Ditto]

Voldemort.

Aaaand I'm out. :smallamused:

[The_Snark]

5.Bill and Ted- Again with time travel on there side they could destroy the ring before it becomes a problem. Party on!!!!!!!!!!! :smallamused:

Bill and Ted are nigh-unbeatable, owing to their ability to pull anything and everything they need, including genius plans, out of time-travel paradoxes.

That's not even including the sequel.

[ALOR]

Bill and Ted are nigh-unbeatable, owing to their ability to pull anything and everything they need, including genius plans, out of time-travel paradoxes.

That's not even including the sequel.

How true maybe we should start a thread on who could beat Bill and Ted :smallbiggrin:

[warty goblin]

Easy, any Dragon Ball Z character could beat Sauron... Common at the start Vegeta destroyed a whole planet, they dont have to breathe(or otherwise how in several times they are outside planets and outside their ships)...

I believe I already covered this point. Sauron kills them while they are doing their five minute attack windup. The power to shatter a planet : $500,000,000- the power to do it before the 12 foot tall burning abomination crushes your body- priceless.

[Poison_Fish]

1: As to the Super Robot pilots, *That's what Super Robot anime is about*. Willpower, guts, and grit defeating really freaking long odds. Notwithstanding that the two I specifically named, Cybuster and Granzon? The former becomes a God, and both /fight/ Gods directly.
2. Most of the character's I've named in fact, take on Deities of pure evil. So yes, I'm pretty sure they do in fact have the willpower to have Sauron's full attention /and not be corrupted/. And those Deities typically have far more raw power.
3. The few that do not have the capability to destroy a Universe. Sauron can't directly corrupt someone on the opposite side of a continent. Destroy the universe from Middle Earth /orbit/ and you're untouchable by him. Notwithstanding that you're nuking a /universe/. You don't have to be in the same galaxy to break him when you can do that.
4. He is, going by the posts by the pro-LotR people, physically incapable of corrupting people of more raw power then he himself. Hence why Morgoth wasn't corrupted by him. Most of the people I have mentioned, to say the least, have significantly more raw power then him, because he /has/ very little raw power compared to most settings.

Don't forget Gurren Lagann.

Actually, I think if Simon from Gurren Lagann just got a little excited, Mt. Doom would spontaneously flood with lava. And least not forget, he could combine with the black gate and turn it into a giant robot. That would be silly of course. But the universe runs on drilling through common sense.

[lipe44]

I believe I already covered this point. Sauron kills them while they are doing their five minute attack windup. The power to shatter a planet : $500,000,000- the power to do it before the 12 foot tall burning abomination crushes your body- priceless.

Well, they are extremely fast and they dont have to be at a place to do the five minute attack windup...

You got it wrong...

The power to shatter a planet : $500,000,000,000- the power to do it before the 12 foot tall burning abomination crushes your body - priceless . The power to destroy a 12 foot tall burning abomination before it crushes your body - No words to describe.

[ALOR]

Well, they are extremely fast and they dont have to be at a place to do the five minute attack windup...

You got it wrong...

The power to shatter a planet : $500,000,000,000- the power to do it before the 12 foot tall burning abomination crushes your body - priceless . The power to destroy a 12 foot tall burning abomination before it crushes your body - No words to describe.

oh come on now, it takes a DBZ character 5 episodes to screw in a light bulb let alone actully fight. :smallbiggrin:

[lipe44]

oh come on now, it takes a DBZ character 5 episodes to screw in a light bulb let alone actully fight. :smallbiggrin:

Well it takes thousands of pages for Sauron and he doesnt fight directly... :smallbiggrin:

[Hawriel]

You clearly haven't read much into Middle-earth's backstory. Check out The Silmarillion and The History of Middle-earth and THEN come back and tell me that Sauron's pathetic. Because trust me: In the First and Second Ages, he was a pretty epic badass.

So, characters who could beat Sauron:

Morgoth Bauglir
Cthulhu
any C'tan
The God-Emperor of Man (oooh, I just had an idea. It'll be up this afternoon)
The Great Old Ones
Super Saiyan Goku (of course, Sauron's powerlevel is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND!!!)
Shai'tan
Rand al'Thor (when he becomes the Dragon Reborn fully)
Captain Jack Sparrow (because he's Captain Jack Sparrow)


Hmm only one person seems to have liked my suggestion. Unless EE was the only one who new of it.

The Nothing. it would kill every single character mentioned on this thread.

[Smeik]

Hmm only one person seems to have liked my suggestion. Unless EE was the only one who new of it.

The Nothing. it would kill every single character mentioned on this thread.

Even the Great Old Ones? :smallwink:

But it still stands to question if the Nothing can consume an ordinary human, so there is a bit of interpretative free space.

[Ossian]

If you are referring to the Nothing from Ende's neverending story, I totally agree. The nothing does not even have to fight, it simply wipes you out of history, as you get...forgotten, and your story is not told anymore. Cruel, if you ask me, even for an Elder Creeping Horror...:smallcool:

[Winterwind]

Actually, I just forgot your suggestion, Hawriel, because (assuming it's the Neverending Story's Nothing), I agree, too.

Sauron could probably try running, but not much else.

...unless, of course, Sauron qualifies as name-giver. Just imagine the horror... :smalleek:

[....]

The problem with this is that Sauron is a villain, a narrative villain.

Protagonists are, by default, more powerful than villains. Most of the people going up against Sauron only have a one in a million chance of sucess.

And we all know how those turn out.

[Ossian]

Ah, but reversing your reasoning, we might infer that you are the protagonist (of "THE" novel, not just the backstory to it) only once the game is over and the story gets told.
How many protagonists were cut down by Vader? And wasn't Elendil a protagonist? And all those northmen against Grendel? They were all stories in their own right, but we only got to know the one of the guy that won the day.

I tend to see stories as "just one of many parallel universes, the one where the good guy actually rolled a nat. 20". In how many galaxies far away Luke rolled a nat. 1 when shooting the proton torpedoes at the termal exhaust of the Death Star? And how many Frodos rolled a nat. 1 while trying to resist the ring? (well, that was poorly chosen, actually ALL the Frodos rolled a 1 there, but you see my point I presume :smallbiggrin: )

So, are we in the story that gets told, or are we the guys that died in countless numbers at the hand of the BBEG? Ah, Wyrd knoweth...


O.

[lipe44]

Ah, but reversing your reasoning, we might infer that you are the protagonist (of "THE" novel, not just the backstory to it) only once the game is over and the story gets told.
How many protagonists were cut down by Vader? And wasn't Elendil a protagonist? And all those northmen against Grendel? They were all stories in their own right, but we only got to know the one of the guy that won the day.

I tend to see stories as "just one of many parallel universes, the one where the good guy actually rolled a nat. 20". In how many galaxies far away Luke rolled a nat. 1 when shooting the proton torpedoes at the termal exhaust of the Death Star? And how many Frodos rolled a nat. 1 while trying to resist the ring? (well, that was poorly chosen, actually ALL the Frodos rolled a 1 there, but you see my point I presume :smallbiggrin: )

So, are we in the story that gets told, or are we the guys that died in countless numbers at the hand of the BBEG? Ah, Wyrd knoweth...


O.

All Frodos rolled a 1 at the end but some it was at the beggining, others more near to Mordor and the one we know was in the vulcano.

[Hawriel]

Even the Great Old Ones? :smallwink:

But it still stands to question if the Nothing can consume an ordinary human, so there is a bit of interpretative free space.

The nothing consumes every thing, whipes it out univisers and all.

Yes the nothing from the never ending story

[Solo]

Chuck Norris.

[turkishproverb]

Chuck Norris.

Fighter, Thief, and Red Mage.


:smallyuk:

[13_CBS]

Chuck Norris.

You fail. Try again.

[Solo]

You fail. Try again.

It is you who fail!


Fighter, Thief, and Red Mage.

*stab*

[turkishproverb]

*stab*

How about White Mage and/or Black Belt?

[Solo]

How about White Mage and/or Black Belt?

*stabbitystabstab*

[dehro]

Jack "dammit" Bauer! as long as he has his magical bag of holding.

[Squidmaster]

someone has probaly said this before-
Morgoth

[GoC]

Has anyone said Superman yet?
Asumming Sauron is corporeal he'd kill Sauron in the 0.1 seconds it takes him to get there. Superman can resist for the 0.05 seconds it takes him to throw the ring into the fires of mount doom with his Superheroic Willpower(TM),

[puppyavenger]

Corwin
Bleys
Brand
Fiona
Julian
Flora(okay maby not Flora)
Eric
Gerard
Benedict
etc.
Merlin
Merlin
Tolkien
Anyone from the courts of Chaos
Time
Death
Any compound mind that goes interplanetary
any suffitiantly evlved A.I
Zerg
Tyranids
C'tan
Flood

[turkishproverb]

*stabbitystabstab*

*MEDOKEN!*

[Deepblue706]

Solid Snake beat Big Boss with a can of hairspray and a lighter. He could take Sauron like that, too. Of course, to get close, he'd need his cardboard box as well - I mean, Sauron gets the ring of power, so it's only fair Snake has equally powerful equipment.

[Dervag]

One of Doc Smith's Lensmen. They're specifically chosen for incorruptibility and force of will. If any mortal entity could bring itself to drop the Ring of Power, a Lensman could.

Yes, I know, practically nobody here will have heard of the Lensmen or Doc Smith; it's old science fiction.*


Darth Revan! Of course!

Wait, scratch that, any random sith lord

Vader, tyrannus, bane, sidious, maul (okay maybe not darth maul), malak,Only because they would instinctively try to strike Sauron down and take his place at Morgoth's side. I'm not sure that counts.


I believe I already covered this point. Sauron kills them while they are doing their five minute attack windup. The power to shatter a planet : $500,000,000- the power to do it before the 12 foot tall burning abomination crushes your body- priceless.Given their own great resistance to physical harm and ability to throw a punch with blinding speed, I'm not sure that would help much. The reason they can afford to spend five minutes winding up is that if anyone tries to interrupt them they get punched in the face. At Mach 3.


oh come on now, it takes a DBZ character 5 episodes to screw in a light bulb let alone actully fight. :smallbiggrin:My theory is that those 5 episodes are taking place at the speed of perception of one of those superhuman martial artist characters. I mean, let's say the bad guy is going to blow up the planet in twenty seconds.

If my reflexes and physical speed are 100 times greater than the human norm, then twenty seconds looks like two thousand seconds. From my point of view, I have more than half an hour, which is time to toss off some little speeches before beating the bad guy. If my reflexes and physical speed are, say, "over 9000!" times greater than a normal human's, then those twenty seconds will look like fifty hours and I will have time to do virtually anything before I actually have to intervene.


*stabbitystabstab*Can I ask what the algorithm you use to decide when to stab is without getting stabbed?


Corwin
Bleys
Brand
Fiona
Julian
Flora(okay maby not Flora)
Eric
Gerard
Benedict
etc.
FloodCould someone tell me who these people are?

*grumblegrumblegrumble who cares about E.E. Smith? I mean, he was only the first guy to write a story with faster-than-light travel, a major influence on the ideas that went into creating Star Wars and Babylon 5, and the guy who was credited with inventing the concept of the modern naval Combat Information Center by the people who actually built the first of them grumblegrumblegrumble

[pingcode20]

My list of characters who would defeat Sauron.

Dark Helmet, from Spaceballs (He's got the Schwartz!)
Lone Starr, also from Spaceballs (See above)
Excel Excel, from Excel Saga (Nigh-invulnerability and the ability to destroy everything in one or more ways)
Shigeru Miyamoto, from Real Life ('Cause he's awesome like that)
Vicks and Wedge, from Final Fantasy
'Crazy Frog', from Crazy Frog (You know it'll kill anything's mind. Sauron corrupts it, and it destroys his mind)
Johnny Bravo, from Johnny Bravo ("Emptyness... Loneliness!")
Cthulhu, from the Cthulhu Mythos
Marcus, from Fire Emblem 6 and 7
Merlinus, from Fire Emblem 6 and 7
Jeff, from The Wiggles
Jambi the Genie, from Peewee's Playhouse
Rich Burlew from Giant in the Playground Games
Jesus, from Jesus Christ Superstar
Commissar Yarrick, from Warhammer 40k
Cole Sear, from The Sixth Sense
Klarth F. Lester, from Tales of Phantasia
Albeleo, from Ogre Battle
Foul Ole Ron, from Discworld
Cius Warren, from Star Ocean
Midichlorians, from Star Wars Episode One: The Phantom Menace (Hey, it killed the force)
Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo from Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo
Jay Bibby from Jay is Games

[Setra]

Nanoha, from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Hayate could very likely do so as well, though possibly not Fate.

[tyckspoon]

Could someone tell me who these people are?


The royal family from Zelazny's chronicles of Amber, mostly. The basic idea there is that there is an anchor of reality called the Pattern that casts shadows of itself through the multiverse. Typically, the closer your shadow-world is to the center world (called Amber, naturally) the more powerful you are. The royal family not only lives in Amber, they have walked the Pattern, a feat of willpower that gives the walker an inherent connection to the Pattern. They're basically more real than most of reality, which lets them do all kinds of fun stuff. They've probably got the physical prowess to go up against Sauron, and if they've walked the Pattern they certainly have the mental fortitude. A lot of them are greedy power-hungry bastards, tho, so they might not want to resist the Ring's lure.

Also, I've read some Lensman stuff. It's not that obscure for those of us who like Scifi...

[turkishproverb]

My list of characters who would defeat Sauron.

Rich Burlew from Giant in the Playground Games

suck up.

its true, but still...suck up.

[Zweee]

Someone has probably already mentioned these but:
The Borg
The Doctor

[Mr. Friendly]

Sauron is pretty much a Lich. Sure, you can beat him into the dirt, but he will be back.. that was, I thought, the whole point of the whole Mount Doom schtick with the Ring. The Ring (Sauron's phylactery) was an uber artifact that made pretty much everyone who touched it say "pretty, pretty, shiney, shiney". Unless the character in question KNEW about the ring AND what had to be done with the ring, they would no doubt pick it up and wear it. As a... trophy. :smallwink: And the cycle then repeats all over again. He is for all practical purposes unkillable.

[EvilElitest]

Voldemort.

Aaaand I'm out. :smallamused:

get back here :smallfurious:
from,
EE

[Dervag]

Johnny Bravo, from Johnny Bravo ("Emptyness... Loneliness!")
Foul Ole Ron, from DiscworldOddly, both these guys would use the same modus operandi- being too deranged and lucky to kill, and too annoying to tolerate.


Someone has probably already mentioned these but:
The BorgI'm not sure. Assimilating the Ring is the last thing you want to do.


The DoctorNow that, I'll believe.

[Deepblue706]

Kefka could totally take on Sauron post-floating continent. He could take on twelve Saurons.

[ALOR]

Kefka could totally take on Sauron post-floating continent. He could take on twelve Saurons.

the problem is the ring would corupt him, hence sauron wins. :smallfrown:

[Deepblue706]

the problem is the ring would corupt him, hence sauron wins. :smallfrown:

No. He has the statues. He has a tower that shoots laserbeams. He don't need no stinkin' ring.

[Talkkno]

I'm not sure. Assimilating the Ring is the last thing you want to do.

.

Dont need to, just use plantary bombardment to blow everything into dust.

[Kneenibble]

Any of Humphrey Boghart's black-and-white Hollywood characters could beat Sauron. Especially Sam Spade. Partially on account of unbridled sexiness, partially on account of immediate, off-handed, witty comebacks to any insult. And if he got the ring and became the new Dark Lord Boghart, IMAGINE THE PARTY. omg. Swinging jazz and fancy booze at Rick's until the end of the world.

[Soniku]

Not quite a vs. but I figured it'd be a better than just going 'Sauron vs. this' or 'Sauron vs. that' all over the place.

For characters who could beat Sauron AND his armies I'd vote:

Kefka
Kid Buu
Goku
Hellmaster Fibrizo
The Defense System of the Book of Night Sky (Does that count?)

For characters who could beat him in solo combat:
Ranma

...I'll think of more later.

Hellmaster would have trouble with Sauron, because while Fibby can take out level 40 adventuring parties in the amount of time it takes to crush six golden spheres, the Hellmasters control of lives extends only to mortals and from what I recall (I'm probably wrong) Sauron is some sort of demi-god. Of course, being a Mazoku lord Fibby probably has some tricks up his sleeve that we haven't seen... it would be much easier to call in one of the Mazoku who's main power isn't restricted to mortals. :smalltongue:


Edit: That also rules out those oh so cheerful cloaked buddies of Sauron from Fibby's jurisdiction, and with so many orcs chances are Hellmaster will get swarmed and be unable to crush that many golden spheres before Sauron found a way round his ability to become ethrial.

[Winterwind]

Demi-god fits fine. More precise would be to say that Sauron is a fallen angel.

Also, I wanted to post what I said on a different thread here, since it seems to fit here much better (considering this was the thread which spawned that thought):

[...]Frankly, the "Who could beat Sauron" thread has made me believe that the movies were the worst thing that could have happened to Sauron. In the books, Sauron is terrifying, mighty people are afraid of speaking his name, and he does not appear for a good reason. Weaker beings than him are described as horrifying; he is a true god, an incredible power radiating terror. The movies actually show him, make him engage in physical combat and be defeated in a way not exactly following the books, and suddenly everyone thinks he is a weakling. No wonder, too - when the horror is given a face, it ceases to be a horror.

In other words, I think this thread is a testament how very much the movies' depiction of Sauron does not measure up to the one from the books. I mean, people are posting fairly ordinary mortals in this thread here - who are supposed to go up against, more or less, the ultimate horror left in that world, a power so terrifying that even slight contact with it corrupts strong-willed and powerful men. I'm pretty sure that, before the movies, not nearly as many people would have put up so wimpy opponents against the Dark Lord. It's kinda sad, really.

[L1veW1re]

I don't think Anyone has mentioned the Undefeated of the East, Master Asia.

[Zenos]

The God Emperor of mankind.

[puppyavenger]

The royal family from Zelazny's chronicles of Amber, mostly. The basic idea there is that there is an anchor of reality called the Pattern that casts shadows of itself through the multiverse. Typically, the closer your shadow-world is to the center world (called Amber, naturally) the more powerful you are. The royal family not only lives in Amber, they have walked the Pattern, a feat of willpower that gives the walker an inherent connection to the Pattern. They're basically more real than most of reality, which lets them do all kinds of fun stuff. They've probably got the physical prowess to go up against Sauron, and if they've walked the Pattern they certainly have the mental fortitude. A lot of them are greedy power-hungry bastards, tho, so they might not want to resist the Ring's lure.


They're all very good at resisting mind control though, so if they couldn't best the ring they'd probably take a step through Shadow to a convieniently located mount Doom.

[GoC]

More to the list:

Archer from Fate Stay/Night!:smallcool:
He'd just replicate one of Finglorin's or Melkor's weapons!

Let's see...
Superboy-Prime. He's Silver Sups without his weaknesses.
A D&D Nightcrawler.
Link
Most charcters from crpgs (chrono&co. and Cless&co. for instance)
Many of the higher powered characters from comics (preferably DC due to the better immunities)
EvilElitest could drive him insane in a vs. thread.:smallwink:
Definitely Wally West! "I kill you and freeze your body before you know I exist.":smallcool:

[Rutee]

More to the list:

Archer from Fate Stay/Night!:smallcool:
He'd just replicate one of Finglorin's or Melkor's weapons!

Small note on this, Archer can only use Imaging Sorcery to Trace what he learned in life. This does in fact make replicating those weapons impossible for him, unless he has the originals (This is more useful then it sounds, for those who've not seen it. He fires these as ammunition from his bow, after modifying them to release all their magical energy in one shot). However, since he can replicate their bases (Various weapons from Nordic myth), the difference in the end is moot. It's the exact reason I mentioned Gilgamesh, really; Gilgamesh is sure to have the original concepts in the Gate of Babylon, since Tolkien drew from real world myth :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Come to think of it, Gilgamesh would drop Sauron pretty darn hard. Sauron's a deity, isn't he? Enkidu is massively powerful against people who have the blood of gods in their veins. A full God or Demi-God, given some of the people he's restrained in it, is /screwed/.

[Mephisto]

Silchas Ruin
Karsa Orlong (maybe)
Icarium

All from Malazan Book of the Fallen.

Anasurimbor Kellhus from the Prince of Nothing series.

Sethra Lavode of the Dragaera novels, especially if it's army vs. army.

[Ettlesby]

My vote goes to Giygas from EarthBound.

He uses an army consisting of New Age Retro Hippies, Annoying Old Party men, and various assorted Mooks and Starmen along with the occasional robot that explodes when it dies(forgot it's name, but it's capable of healing).

Giygas then fights Sauron using his PSI. As long as Sauron can't sing or pray, Giygas should be fine.

[ZeroNumerous]

Shiro Emiya, from Fate/Stay Night.

He creates a god-killing abomination with his mind and destroys Sauron's soul.

[Rutee]

How badly does the anime mangle the game? Shiro's not that powerful without the use of Archer's Arm, canonically. Further, his psychology really only lets him Trace weapons, without having raw materials at hand.

With Archer's Arm, he SHOULD be able to kill Sauron, sure, and it's technically fair, without getting into spoilers, but he's not got a whole lot of outright power otherwise.

[Artemician]

How badly does the anime mangle the game? Shiro's not that powerful without the use of Archer's Arm, canonically. Further, his psychology really only lets him Trace weapons, without having raw materials at hand.

With Archer's Arm, he SHOULD be able to kill Sauron, sure, and it's technically fair, without getting into spoilers, but he's not got a whole lot of outright power otherwise.

Not very, IMHO. He doesn't really do much of the "trace you to hell thing" much, except for tracing Caliburn, which happened in the visual novel anyway.

The only really big mangling we see is when he fights Kuzuki and WINS. Which you know.. sort of implies that he could beat Saber, because Saber lost to Kuzuki. Hard. I don't know whether that happens in the Visual Novel, though. Didn't get around to reading that part.

On another note, I'm just wondering what would happen if Shirou traced the One Ring. Could be interesting.

~
Back to topic.

All this talk of Type Moon has made me think of anyother possible candidate.

Shiki. That bugger can kill anything.

[Rutee]

Shiki could do it, yeah. At least, Nanaya Shiki definitely could do it. Not 100% sure on Tohno Shiki, but either way they have the capability to end Sauron.

Really, given what appears to be Sauron's raging arrogance in thinking he can't be defeated, I imagine either one of them could do it easily. They're 'just ordinary mortals' after all.

[EvilElitest]

1. Didn't this thread die?
2. to be fair, Sauron is normally quite cautious, he just tends to overestimate his enemies and and view them in teh same way he views himself, selfish. THe idea of a Gandalf sending a hobbit to destroyed the ring just never occurred to him. you have to admit, it is a pretty stupid plan, so stupid it worked
from
EE

[hylian chozo]

Link
Samus Aran

[EvilElitest]

Link
Samus Aran

Ug, link vs. Sauron that would be an absurd thread


Why isn't this thread dead

Troll ninjas, Me, Bruce Lee, the Star Wars Empire
from
EE

[Matar]

Ug, link vs. Sauron that would be an absurd thread


Why isn't this thread dead

Troll ninjas, Me, Bruce Lee, the Star Wars Empire
from
EE

Because I have to yet let my my fan-boy juices flow.

It's alot less nasty then what it sounds.

Cort from Legend of Legaia. Actually, this is a damn good fight. Seru Vs Orcs and Cort Vs Sauron would be freaking epic.

Mind, this is one-on-one. In a war, I'd have to give it to Sauron. But it would be damn close.

Cort is fecking awsome, and so is Legend of Legaia.

"Noa? I know no Noa. I need no Noa..."

[Rowanomicon]

I've got two:

1)Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White and "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s Black Knight and Benito Mussolini and The Blue Meanie and Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie, Robocop, the Terminator, Captain Kirk, and Darth Vader, Lo Pan, Superman, every single Power Ranger Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, The Rock, Doc Ock, and Hulk Hogan.

But only if they came out of nowhere lightning fast and took him by surprise. Come to think of it they might need help from Chuck Norris and/or Mr. Rogers with this one.

2) Sauron

Stay with me on this.
Sauron created The Ring and they are one, The Ring and The Dark Lord.
The Ring makes it's way into Frodo's hands.
Gollum serves Frodo, but wishes to take The Ring as his own and leave Mordor.
The Ring/Sauron does not want this so corrupts Frodo into doing something he would otherwise not do which was to lay doom on someone else by telling Gollum that, should he touch Frodo again, he would be cast into the fires of Mt. Doom and invoking the power of The Ring.
The power of The Ring is such when Gollum touched Frodo again he fell into the fired of Mt. Doom. However, he had The Ring with him, thus destroying The Ring and reducing Sauron to a mere spirit of Malice.
Thus Sauron defeated Sauron. Game, set, match.

Oh, and since people seem to read this phrase whether it's there or not, lolzsauron. (Yes, I am poking fun at all of you who cry "foul" and "fanboy" simply because you got too emotionally attached to a fictional character, hahaha, lighten up.)

[Steven the Lich]

EE wants this thread to die? Fantastic, I shall join in.
Alright, lets see... Anyone from DBZ "KamehameHA!" Or my personal favorite "Whirlwind Spin!"
Lich King.
Gundam (Gungam?)= blow Mordor into ashes.
The Empire (Not individually of course, Sauron would kick Sideous' ugly bottom)
Kirby... (Just suck him in, become Sauron, or walk off an edge and commit suicide... this is Kirby from Super Smash Bros of course) (>'_')>
Cuthulu
Sargeras
Morgoth
Tolkien (If you count him, he could erase Sauron from existence, being the writer of the LotRs Trilogy, after all)
The Kyubi (Nine tailed fox)
Superman
Doomsday (Wiped out the entire Justice League without losing a breath. Only destroyed by Superman... and killed him too)
Some guy from the Twilight zone who used mind over matter to erase everyone from the world...
Mr. Rogers (see ultimate showdown!)
Guyra (See Kings Field... he's a big evil dragon only defeatable with a special sword)
Captain Olimar (With a HUGE pikmin army... like... 20 onions or something)
Almost everysingle character in Naruto (Not including weaklings... such as non ninja guys or even those three brothers from Kakashi's mask episode...
Master Chief (He is just too lucky to not win)
Prince of Persia (Time manipulation powers, and sheer luck of being able to traverse through ruins with a path oddly availible at every turn...)
*Takes a deep breath*
And if Rowans statement made any remote sense at all, Sauron.
I could name more, but I can't think of them...

[Rowanomicon]

Way to make an Ultimate Showdown reference AFTER me, ha!:smalltongue:

[LordVader]

A KGC-0000 King Crab BattleMech.

Very little can withstand 2 AC-20s to the face. :smallbiggrin:

[Eita]

I object to Superman being able to! Unless you meant Silver-Supes.

[Rowanomicon]

Yeah, me too.
Also The Lick King is currently under debate.
However, this doesn't seem like the right thread to debate in. I treat it more like a thread for jokes and kicks, otherwise it just becomes a thread for bitter people who got too emotionally attached to vs threads and I think jokes are betetr than bitter feelings.

[Sixscimitars]

I'd say Sosuke Aizen from Bleach. The guy is among the greatest users of the Xanatos Gambit, plus, simply looking at his sword puts one under inescapable hypnosis that cannot be identified and controls how one percieves everything-ie, making The Crack of Doom look like a bed of flowers or making Aizen himself look like the Valar.
He's also a master of a number of versatile spells that could lay waste to a fair portion of Middle-Earth, and can move incredibly fast, to the point that it looks like he's teleporting. Even if Sauron can beat all that, Aizen's probably got at least 40 billion backup plans.
Well?
Also, this is my first post ever.

[Rutee]

Aizen is very nearly deus ex machina though, ain't he? I haven't seen much fo Bleach, so I'm not too sure.

Also, the Lich King seemed to garner more supporters, to say the least..
What have I been playing recently? Ah, nothing new. Oh well.

Oh yeah! Alkaiser, that hero of himself the people, especially if he had Robin with him.

Actually, SaGa characters taking on Sauron would be interesting.. most of them aren't on the upper bound of power that video games offer, and /do/ fight enemies that are quite proficient in mind control and corruption, so would likely be at least somewhat resistant to his powers.. without being overwhelmingly capable of flooring him. Though, some of the final bosses in various SaGa games /are/ on that level of power.. lemme think here.

Romancing SaGa 1 characters could do it, no sweat; Saruin is a BBEG in a similar vein to Sauron, but predictably, trades some corruption capabilities for raw power.
Romancing SaGa 2, not really. It takes them generations to finally kill their BBEG (Which is interesting itself, but doesn't lend itself to kicking Sauron's ass)
Romancing SaGa 3, definitely. BBEG with far more outright power, and at least some corruption proficiency.
SaGa Frontier 1 varies, but I'd say Asellus, Alkaiser, T260G in Final Frame, Gen, and.. blah, needs a healer, but still, they should be able to handle it. If the last slot is Time Lord or Blue after Mastering all Magic, it's GG Sauron though.
SaGa Frontier 2, no question. The Egg is.. pretty disgusting, and in as few words as possible, is a soul-sucking incarnation of Magic Energy itself. Ultimately controls 90% of the monsters the party fights directly, and tends to automatically sieze control of people near it.

[Lord Blace]

Mentok, the Mindtaker teamed up with Phil Ken Sebben.

How? Through whatever hilarious means randomly pop up. :smalltongue:

[Sixscimitars]

Aizen is very nearly deus ex machina though, ain't he? I haven't seen much fo Bleach, so I'm not too sure.

Also, the Lich King seemed to garner more supporters, to say the least..
What have I been playing recently? Ah, nothing new. Oh well.

Oh yeah! Alkaiser, that hero of himself the people, especially if he had Robin with him.

Actually, SaGa characters taking on Alkaiser would be interesting.. most of them aren't on the upper bound of power that video games offer, and /do/ fight enemies that are quite proficient in mind control or corruption, so would likely be at least somewhat resistant to his powers. Though, some of the final bosses in various SaGa games /are/ on that level of power.. lemme think here.

Romancing SaGa 1 characters could do it, no sweat; Saruin is a BBEG in a similar vein to Sauron, but predictably, trades some corruption capabilities for raw power.
Romancing SaGa 2, not really. It takes them generations to finally kill their BBEG (Which is interesting itself, but doesn't lend itself to kicking Sauron's ass)
Romancing SaGa 3, definitely. BBEG with far more outright power, and at least some corruption proficiency.
SaGa Frontier 1 varies, but I'd say Asellus, Alkaiser, T260G in Final Frame, Gen, and.. blah, needs a healer, but still, they should be able to handle it.
SaGa Frontier 2, no question. The Egg is.. pretty disgusting, and in as few words as possible, is a soul-sucking incarnation of Magic Energy itself.

So? Deus Ex Machina or not, that still means he beats Sauron.

[Guts]

The Idea of Evil from Berserk. Just as good a manipulator (responsible for nearly all human suffering in the setting, which is its purpose).

[Etheral]

Im not sure if this has been said yet but I reckon Neo from The Matrix could do it. Even Morpheus and Trinity (spelt right?) can beat him if they wanted to. :smallcool: :smallcool: :smallcool:

[Dhavaer]

The Horadrim and any of Sanctuary's heroes from the Diablo-verse. They more or less specialise in guys like Sauron.

[Sixscimitars]

Elminister (friggin' mary sue)
Goku (After a few 50-episode arcs, he finishes charging up his attack, stops having a flashback, and destroys Middle-Earth)
Batman (with preperation, including anti-superpowerful-demigod spray)
Galactus (CHOMP)
Cthulu (drives Sauron insane, gleefully savouring Sauron's every moment wracked with pain, before ending his pathetic, fleeting life quickly)
Asmodeus (king of all evil)
Samus (the girl depopulates planets)
Ichigo (goes Bankai, takes ring from Frodo,goes back to Mordor and tosses the ring in within 5 seconds)
Silver Age Superman (similar to Batman, uses super-erase-one-ring from existense power)
Jar Jar (annoys Sauron 'till he comits suicide)

[thubby]

*shameless self promotion* Alucard (hellsing). he can fight armies, can make armies, and has taken down a deity level being. he's also near pure evil and would probably be MORE dangerous were he (more) insane. not to mention he has no wish for anything beyond fighting the most powerful beings he can get his hands on.

[Sixscimitars]

Hell, what's with this thread? There are lots of things that can kill Sauron-compared to the crap that happens in the average Shonen, Sauron seems pretty weak. He wasn't even the best guy in his world. The incredibly long list of examples we've given actually makes Sauron look bottom tier.