Optimization Eclectic / Fun Builds II: Lightning Boogaloo [Archive]

Psyren

2023-04-17, 09:27 PM

(No promises as to effectiveness this time :smalltongue:)

The original build collection thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds) was locked due to page length - and mayhap a reduction in interest from the original creator(s)? - but consider this a spot where all and sundry can throw out and/or discuss any build ideas they want to share with the forum community. Feel free to discuss or revisit any of the older builds from the locked thread here as well if you prefer.

No hard requirements/format; If your goal is for people to try out your build in actual play, consider sticking to 27 point buy/standard array as well as first-party sources - but I'm not the build police! I have nothing against reading an interesting third-party subclass after all. If your build does something cool at a particular level/breakpoint, feel free to highlight that. And of course, have fun.

To get things started, here's a build I threw together a while back based on Evergreen from the wizard manga Fairy Tail. My goal was to get as many of her iconic abilities into the build as possible, which it turns out was fairly straightforward to do.

Fairy Warlock 13 (Fey Pact)
27 PB: Str 8 Dex 14 Con 13+1 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 15+2
Pact Boon: Any (I picked Talisman for her glasses, and her fan is her casting focus, but feel free to change things up)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/945934606056685591/1097677587934871563/image.png

In the original story she's a human who merely wants to be a fairy - but it's D&D, we can do better than that :smallsmile: Besides, her first two abilities fit Fairy to a tee.

1) Constant Flight + Size Change - Fairy Racials
Straightforward, Fairies get both racial concentration-free flight and Enlarge/Reduce. She can use this to grow or shrink as needed as she zips around.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/945934606056685591/1097678312781918318/image.png

2) Stone Eyes - Flesh to Stone
Again, straightforward, as this is on the base Warlock list, so she grabs this as her 6th-level Mystic Arcanum.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/1/19/Stone_Eyes.gif/revision/latest?cb=20121002140350

3) Fairy Machine Gun: Leprechaun - Crown of Stars + Eldritch Blast
This is a barrage of energy projectiles. Since only a few of them tend to hit anyway, I figure CoS+EB gets us close enough. If you want even more, consider Metamagic Adept to twin or quicken your EB instead. CoS will be her 7th-level Arcanum.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/e/e0/Fairy_Machine_Gun_-_Leprechaun.gif/revision/latest?cb=20111123223927

4) Fairy Bomb: Gremlin - Hellish Rebuke
This is a single-target explosion she tends to use when hit/attacked, so I felt this was the most reasonable approximation on the Warlock list.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/9/93/Fairy_Bomb_Gremlin.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120301184318

Other spells and feats are PYF.

...and that's the build! Let's see some of yours.

animorte

2023-04-19, 09:35 PM

First, thanks for starting the thread and especially linking the old one. Also, I said this and I meant it:

Looking forward to it!

Anyway, I've always enjoyed some Disney and years ago started working on creating various characters within the boundaries of 5e. Here's one...

Ursula (The Little Mermaid)

TL;DR: Triton, Courtier, Chain Pact, Fathomless Warlock 14/Glamour Bard 6 (ALL Charisma skills)

Start with Triton as the race. Amphibious, for breathing air and water (quite important), fog cloud for some inking episodes, and the racial name is just hilarious.

You can take a different background (for similar effect), but I'm going with Courtier for Insight and Persuasion. Class skills are definitely Deception and Intimidation.

Ability Scores can spread sort of however you'd like as long as there's plenty of Charisma.

Level 1: Starting out with Warlock, and you guessed it, Fathomless!

Invocations: Mask of Many Faces and Voice of the Chain Master are the important ones here. (You could also go with Investment of the Chain Master for additional fancy tricks including theswim speed, though that doesn't solve the water-breathing concern.)

Oh, you figured out already that we're taking Pact of the Chain? Yes, indeed. Flotsam and Jetsam are very useful indeed. (But, you know, we only have one. Cast flock of familiars if'n your heart desires.)

So, that pretty much gets us all we really need for the build!

I don't recall exactly how I worked in the idea of contracts, but here's the rest of what I decided upon (for now):

Take an early level or three of Bard, grab the Performance skill and take some expertise (I choose Deception and Persuasion).

Take 14 levels for Fathomless capstone, and 6 levels for Glamour Bard. All set!

Coming back to this, I remembered a couple things. Warlock 10/Bard 10 makes the Geas spell available from the Bard spell list and this opens up Magical Secrets. While the Fathomless capstone is neat, it may not be particularly accurate, so there's a bit of preference variation.

Psyren

2023-05-11, 08:34 PM

So I stumbled across this one on a Youtube channel - the Autoshield Hunter? That name seems a bit technological, but anyway.

Goliath Hunter 7

Hunters have a subclass feature called Multiattack Defense - if they're hit, they automatically get +4 AC against all remaining hits from the same creature. It's sort of a poor man's Shield spell, but doesn't use your reaction.

Goliath meanwhile, has the ability (Stone's Endurance) to reduce the damage they take on one hit by 1d12+Con, PB/LR.

So the idea is that a nasty boss monster tries to shred you - you soak the first hit with your racial, Hunter's MD triggers, and all the rest of their attacks have much less chance to hit, leaving you quite tanky. And for the ones that get through, you have decent armor and d10 HD.

Ideally you'd be in melee to encourage things to hit you; you can further enhance this by going sword and board, or you can TWF instead.

First, thanks for starting the thread and especially linking the old one. Also, I said this and I meant it:

Anyway, I've always enjoyed some Disney and years ago started working on creating various characters within the boundaries of 5e. Here's one...

Ursula (The Little Mermaid)

TL;DR: Triton, Courtier, Chain Pact, Fathomless Warlock 14/Glamour Bard 6 (ALL Charisma skills)

Start with Triton as the race. Amphibious, for breathing air and water (quite important), fog cloud for some inking episodes, and the racial name is just hilarious.

You can take a different background (for similar effect), but I'm going with Courtier for Insight and Persuasion. Class skills are definitely Deception and Intimidation.

Ability Scores can spread sort of however you'd like as long as there's plenty of Charisma.

Level 1: Starting out with Warlock, and you guessed it, Fathomless!

Invocations: Mask of Many Faces and Voice of the Chain Master are the important ones here. (You could also go with Investment of the Chain Master for additional fancy tricks including theswim speed, though that doesn't solve the water-breathing concern.)

Oh, you figured out already that we're taking Pact of the Chain? Yes, indeed. Flotsam and Jetsam are very useful indeed. (But, you know, we only have one. Cast flock of familiars if'n your heart desires.)

So, that pretty much gets us all we really need for the build!

I don't recall exactly how I worked in the idea of contracts, but here's the rest of what I decided upon (for now):

Take an early level or three of Bard, grab the Performance skill and take some expertise (I choose Deception and Persuasion).

Take 14 levels for Fathomless capstone, and 6 levels for Glamour Bard. All set!

Coming back to this, I remembered a couple things. Warlock 10/Bard 10 makes the Geas spell available from the Bard spell list and this opens up Magical Secrets. While the Fathomless capstone is neat, it may not be particularly accurate, so there's a bit of preference variation.

Question I meant to ask you about this one - is Bard just there for the Geas to represent Ariel's contract? I think you could finagle something similar (albeit shorter in duration, but still long enough to cover the film kinda) with Bestow Curse.

animorte

2023-05-13, 01:43 AM

Question I meant to ask you about this one - is Bard just there for the Geas to represent Ariel's contract? I think you could finagle something similar (albeit shorter in duration, but still long enough to cover the film kinda) with Bestow Curse.
Alright, so I definitely considered that but ultimately decided it wasn't worth it, and can really be accomplished by exactly what you stated. Instead, have a look at the Glamour Bard features. Enthralling Performance (3) and Mantle of Majesty (6). Now, I know so many Disney characters have their own song and all that, so it's like they all took levels in Bard or at least proficiency in Performance. Anyway to my point...

Her performance inclines Ariel to accept the rather outrageous terms (considering countless shriveled merfolk present). It also allows her (on top of the unlimited disguise) to easily enchant Eric. I hope that helps! :smallsmile:

I was going to drop in another character concept here that I wanted to share, but I need to look over the details again. If there hasn't been another post in that time, I'll just edit this one.

solidork

2023-05-13, 12:56 PM

This isn't so much a coherent high concept build as it is reporting on how a build I've seen speculated about has been going for me.

Subclass: Undead Warlock
Pact: Chain (Sprite)
Notable Invocations: Investment of the Chain Master
Notable Spells: Bane

One of the big problems with Bane as a spell is that even if they fail the save, concentrating on Bane means you're limited on how you can take advantage of their lowered saves. You also usually have to wait until next turn before you're forcing another save. Investment of the Chain Master gets around both of those problems, and between that and Form of Dread this build has ways of forcing saves against debilitating effects multiple times a round for very reasonable resource expenditure. Bane and Sprite Poison have extra synergy since you get an extra effect if their save is low enough.

Is Bane actually important to this build (or even that good, even here)? Maybe not! You can do the Sprite thing on any subclass and it will be good against things that aren't immune, I just wanted to try and KO people with the poison. It's been effective so far

Pros:
- Synergy with allied spellcasters
- You will absolutely ruin the day of anybody trying to make attack rolls
- Investment is pretty low to the ground, you've got room in the build to have other things going on. I'm playing a social monster with Mask of Many Faces and Actor.
- Strong early. Unlike builds that take time to mature, once you hit 3 you're pretty much fully online.
- The Undead warlock's durability has impressed me.

Cons:
- Your debuffs don't hinder non-attackers much. They've started giving spellcasting NPCs dangerous attack options, but if they're casting actual spells then they don't really care.
- Immunity to Poisoned and Frightened are not uncommon.
- Your sprite's attack bonus doesn't scale, and its very fragile compared to the other Chain options.

I don't think I'm going to have the money to play around with Summon Undead before the game I'm in ends, but it seems like it would be kind of awesome.

Amnestic

2023-05-13, 03:39 PM

Little Mermaid made me think of her best friend...Sora von Kingdom Hearts, Keyblade Master.

Well, keyblade something anyway.

Build goal: Frontline fighter/healer.
Final build: V.Human Fighter 2/Celestial Bladelock 14/Swords Bard 4
Level Progression: Fighter 1->Warlock 5->Bard 4->Warlock+9->Fighter +1

Sora starts without his keyblade and just a (wooden) longsword, trades it up when he becomes a Wielder (Celestial Lock), briefly loses it again but gets help from his friends (Bard) and then goes on to become a keyblade master. At level 20 he unlocks Action Surge to hit twice in one turn. What a champ!

Starting Stats (PBuy)
Str 15, Dex 13+1 (14), Con 12, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13+1 (14)
V.human feat: Inspiring Leader
Background: Folk Hero or Sailor.
Background Skills: Persuasion, Performance
Background proficiency: Water (and air, if possible) vehicles.

Sora is strong, agile, not particularly hardy, and charismatic.

Between Inspiring Leader, Celestial Resistance, Interception Fighting Style and Healing Light, Sora should be churning out a good amount of temporary and non-temporary hit points/damage reduction. He gets a decent whack of magic, some offensive, some not, and for the most part he'll be bladetripping for reasonable consistent damage from 2nd level. The bard levels serve to boost his Face skills, with BI dice either going to party boosts (his friends are his power!) or flourishes because he's a slashy guy.

Features/Recommended spells:

Fighter: Athletics/Acro Proficiency (Sora is athletic!), grab a longsword for your weapon, and Interception fighting style to protect his friends.

Warlock:-
Invocations:
2nd - Fiendish Vigor, Beast Speech (gotta talk to Donald+Goofy somehow...). If you want to stay true to no-armour Sora, you can trade out one of these for Armour of Shadows instead.
5th - Gift of the Depths (Sora is an excellent swimmer, also Atlantica).
7th - Improved Pact Weapon (if no magic longswords available yet), otherwise Trickster's Escape/Eldritch Smite to taste.
9th - Otherworldly Leap. Sora is really good at Jumping.
12th - Lifedrinker

Spells:
Cantrips - Greenflame Blade, Booming Blade. Sora's a slashy guy.
1st - Cure Wounds (Cure), Armor of Agathys (Blizzard/Aero), Expeditious Retreat (Sora go fast)
2nd - Shatter (Thunder), Flaming Sphere (Fire)
3rd - Fly (thanks Tinkerbell), Revivify (Phoenix Down), Summon Fey (calling in friends)
4th - Guardian of Faith (calling in another Summon)
5th - Hold Monster (Stop!), Greater Restoration (Esuna/Remedy)
6th (MA) - Investiture of Wind (Aero)
7th (MA) - Crown of Stars (Holy), or Plane Shift (because you travel between worlds)

Bard:-
Expertise goes into Persuasion and Athletics.
Dueling Fighting Style.
Spells:
Cantrips: Support/Utility stuff. Sora's getting better at magic at this point.
1st - Animal Friendship, Feather Fall, Silvery Barbs (or Heroism, if that's a no-go), Longstrider
2nd - Aid, Hold Person (Stop!)

ASIs, based on character level
5th - Athlete or Slasher (+Strength)
10th - +2 Strength
13th - +2 Strength (maxed out)
17th - +2 Cha

strangebloke

2023-05-13, 11:50 PM

The King

https://i.imgur.com/gUVupSe.png
(art by me!)

Summary: Explosive Wrestler

Overview:
Race:Clineage (Human)
Class: Battlemaster 6 / Wildfire Druid X
Starting Stats: 16/10/16/8/14/10
Feats: HAM, Tavern Brawler, Crusher/Skill Expert/Lucky/Sentinel
Fighting Style: Unarmed
Maneuvers: Commanding Presence, Trip Attack, Commander's Strike
Must-have magic item: Eldritch Claw Tattoo
Spells: Magic stone, guidance, faerie fire, longstrider, absorb element, spike growth

Playstyle:

Yeah, look, this isn't optimal. I'm not going to try to sell you on crazy damage numbers here. What this build can do is ruin one specific dude's day really really really effectively. In the early game you're just really really hard to kill with HAM making you a brick wall that most early game enemies can't do anything to circumvent. Normal low level fighter stuff taken to the extreme.

Once you get to level 4 you've got the trip attack + tavern brawler combo online, which locks a foe into a state where they can't get off the floor. Remember that when you hit a flying opponent, trip attack powerbombs them to earth. Commanding Presence is amazingly strong at this level, and in a pinch you can play the role of party face in spite of your +0 CHA mod. (remember, in a social scenario you can usually count on getting a short rest shortly thereafter - so go wild with this.) Commander's Strike is a nuke with a rogue in the party and also opens up lots of strong combos.

Problems: you're not very mobile and you can't do anything about many non-BSP damage sources, which cuts into your tankiness (you also lack a shield.) Cue Druid levels! Longstrider makes you faster, Wildfire gives you a teleport, goodberry and such are utility. OA blocks those nasty elemental bombs. You can even go faerie fire and action surge into a burst turn. You can cast spike growth, action surge, attack someone twice, grapple as a bonus action, then use rake them across the spikes for 20 feet (movement enhanced by longstrider)

This build isn't really super strong, but it's fun and has tools for most situations. you're basically a luchador, complete with charismatic poses, grapples, throws, flying power bombs (oh yeah even the jump spell can be fun). Your role is to exploit your movement to run down priority targets and lock them down. It's a similar gimmick to a monk but with a whole lot more beef.

LibraryOgre

2023-07-11, 12:04 PM

The Mod Ogre: *violent, repeated, headbutts*

Ogres don't to 'bumps'.

Joe the Rat

2023-07-18, 10:37 AM

"God Hand" Kyle, He Who Punches the Drywall of Reality.

Dao Genie Warlock 2+ / Dragon Sorcerer 4+ / Fighter 2+
Required Feats: Gunner or Crossbow Expert, Crusher.
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast
Metamagic: Quickened

This is my classic Warlock "Monk", updated with Post-Tasha options.
Your spell selections really don't matter, because the entire point of the build is to burn sorcery points to quicken Eldritch Blast, and hit people multiple times from 0-120 feet away and send them flying. That said, this would be one of the few places I would suggest using Hex. Thematically, anything that connects with punching holes or being super-cool is on brand.
Dao Genie patron is for the extra push available through crusher (and a spot of bludgoning damage so you know you're being punched), but Hexblade is completely acceptable for the extra edginess. If you advance Warlock, Blade or Talisman are your options - you'd never bother with books, and nobody trusts you to take care of a pet.
Any sorcerer will do, but Dragon provides a little extra HP and AC without using "wussy" armor options, plus dragons are badass.
Fighter is for Action Surge for when you really need to hit someone a lot, and gets you sword proficiency, because swords are cool.

For magic items, I recommend two Rods of the Pact Keeper, preferably attached to each other with a chain, for a couple extra pact slots to burn. Pelor help your DM if they let you have Illusionist's Bracers.

For the complete effect, I recommend calling out your attacks, and naming them after various flavors of energy drink. For example, the Quick EB/Action EB/Surge EB combo was "Monster Zero Khaos Ultra"

solidork

2023-07-27, 09:08 AM

The Unsubtle Spy

Rogue 1/Rune Knight 3

Sometimes the key to acting in the shadows is to appear uninteresting so no one is particularly interested in what you're up to. Another approach is to be so obvious and transparent in your intentions that no one suspects that there might be a deeper game going on. The Rune Knight fighter has some very powerful enhancements to subterfuge while having a very bombastic and unsubtle combat style which can potentially cause your enemies to underestimate your ability to be canny. If your game looks like its going to heavily involve intrigue, this character build offers a way to excel at that without relying on spellcasting.

Class Order: Start with Rogue, then go into Fighter.
Abilities: Dex should be highest, with at least a 14 in Con and Charisma
Skills: Deception for sure, then pick from Acrobatics, Slight of Hand, Persuasion, Insight, Perception, Investigation or Stealth.
Tools: If you think you can make use of them, take Disguise Kit and Forgery Kit from your background. You'll have Thieves' Tools from Rogue.
Runes: Cloud (advantage on deception and sleight of hand, redirect an attack) and either Fire (double all tool proficiencies and restrain when you hit) or Stone(darkvision, advantage on insight and an incapacitate ability). Double proficiency on tools is a rare thing to get, but you'd need a specific game or to really work to get the most out of this.
Expertise: Again, Deception is key but your second choice will vary based on what you want to do. Take Sleight of Hand if you want to maximize your strengths. If you plan on taking the Stone rune, expertise in Insight will make you among the best at it even with no Wisdom investment.

At level 4, you've got advantage on Deception and Sleight of Hand, and either double proficiency with your Thieves' Tools, Forgery Kit and Disguise Kit or advantage on Insight. These "always on" enhancements are very difficult to replicate.

Later levels: Keep advancing in Fighter, but it's worth it to go up to Rogue 3 at some point; after Fighter 5, 6 or 7 are all good points for this. I like Swashbuckler for a Rogue subclass since that fits well with a bombastic persona that is hiding a subtler agenda, but really any of them could work.

Items: If you went Fire rune and find you're using your spy kits, a Headband of Intellect will catapult you to the best of the best with those. Having a decent bonus to Investigate and the various Knowledge skills is also valuable in a social and intrigue focused game.

Corran

2023-07-27, 12:59 PM

If your game looks like its going to heavily involve intrigue, this character build offers a way to excel at that without relying on spellcasting.
I am... intrigued!

Class Order: Start with Rogue, then go into Fighter.
Hmm. Dex instead of con save prof... I am reserving judgement till I see what you'll do with the extra skill.

Skills: Deception for sure, then pick from Acrobatics, Slight of Hand, Persuasion, Insight, Perception, Investigation or Stealth.
I always end up dropping acrobatis for athletics. Even for the characters who will do acrobatic stuff.
Performance is an excellent skill that too often goes under the radar (I've seen too many times deception used at its place). Solid picks.

ps: While stealth proficiency is by now way mandatory, "X or stealth" seems like a trick of some sort. I am on to you.

Tools: If you think you can make use of them, take Disguise Kit and Forgery Kit from your background. You'll have Thieves' Tools from Rogue.
Nice, nice. Took weaver once for a spy character. Used it a lot too. Though I was playing a lot with disguises.

Runes: Cloud and either Fire or Stone. Double proficiency on tools is a rare thing to get, but you'd need a specific game or to really work to get the most out of this.
Once upon a time I had skimmed through rune knight and I remember I liked rune of stone and cloud. What do they do though?

Expertise: Again, Deception is key but your second choice will vary based on what you want to do. Take Sleight of Hand if you want to maximize your strengths. If you plan on taking the Stone rune, expertise in Insight will make you among the best at it even with no Wisdom investment.
Persuasion is great candidate for expertise. I like thinking of deception as the spy's AC and of persuasion as the attack bonus.

Any cool ideas for slight of hand?

At level 4, you've got advantage on Deception and Sleight of Hand, and either double proficiency with your Thieves' Tools, Forgery Kit and Disguise Kit or advantage on Insight. These "always on" enhancements are very difficult to replicate.
Yep, ability checks are very powerful.

Later levels: Keep advancing in Fighter, but it's worth it to go up to Rogue 3 at some point; after Fighter 5, 6 or 7 are all good points for this. I like Swashbuckler for a Rogue subclass since that fits well with a bombastic persona that is hiding a subtler agenda, but really any of them could work.
You'd think mastermind would fit nicely, but then again they give them their defining social feature at level 17. Boo!

Items: If you went Fire rune and find you're using your spy kits, a Headband of Intellect will catapult you to the best of the best with those. Having a decent bonus to Investigate and the various Knowledge skills is also valuable in a social and intrigue focused game.
Now that you mentioned investigate. Observant. Great feat. Read lips is good on spies too!

===============

The build is solid. But put the dots together and tell us what kind of stuff will this character be doing.
For example, my favourite spy trope is the spy who is everyone's favourite friend. Well, not everyone's. We are still killing bad guys (not the ones we are working for, other bad guys) because we are obviously a hero. So I'll put some emphasis on persuasion and from then on it's mostly rp (oh, and buy in from the rest of the group). Another trope I like is the master of disguises (working for the party), who at the extreme I can use to attempt to kill npc's and take their place in the world, possibly feeding my party information or leveraging the npc's power to my party's benefit. Downside is that there might be sessions where you have to join with a replacement character, but I've found the experience enjoyable. Etc Etc. So what sort of delicious mischief is your spy going for?

ZRN

2023-07-27, 01:01 PM

Here's one I've been thinking about for a campaign coming up.

Nigel, Inheritor of the Blood Legion

Build goal: Slippery "evasion tank"
Final build: Halfling Rogue 17 (soulknife) / Barbarian 3 (ancestral guardian)
Level Progression: Rog2 > Bbn3 > Rog17

Nigel was an unassuming halfling janitor. He enjoyed tea with crumpets, cribbage, and bragging about his distant relations, a famously dangerous warrior tribe back in the Old Country. But one day, unbeknownst to him, the last relation in that tribe halfway across the globe kicked the bucket - and his supernatural heirloom, the Ghostblade of Agandria, reverted to him as the closest heir to the ancient bloodline. Meaning one day, he accidentally punches through a wall trying to make his morning coffee and then the spirits of his (largely unimpressed) warrior ancestors start talking to him. Now they're telling him he has to go take back some throne or another to maintain the tribe's honor. Thankfully, the spirits of the ancestors and the mystic blade itself do a lot of the work helping him out...

Mechanically, the concept is that rogues have a lot of mobility that makes them good and hit-and-run tactics, but their damage is mediocre so they don't have a lot of impact when the DO hit. But what if their one decent hit a round did a massive debuff on top of the mediocre damage, encouraging enemies to chase them all over the place? So conceptually, this guy is tossing a dagger or getting in a quick stab and then running for his life each round while his ancestral spirits protect him.

Starting Stats (array)
Str 15+2 (17), Dex 13+1 (14), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Skills: Rogue Stuff
Note: his stats are high-strength, which I'm playing off as supernatural (even though mechanically it's not).

Progression: start as Rogue for skills and then Cunning Action, because fleeing is this guy's bread and butter. Next get barbarian to level 3, which gives you Rage, Reckless Attack, and most importantly, the Ancestral Guardian subclass. From there, it's straight rogue. I picked the Soulknife subclass because the psychic stuff and magic ghost blade fit well with the theme I'm going for, and it's also one of the mechanically best rogue subclasses.

In combat you rage, get in a hit against the most dangerous melee threat each round, and then scramble away so he either has to attack for half damage with disadvantage or try to chase you down. Reckless Attack lets you Sneak Attack every round, and you can usually toss a (psychic) dagger to trigger Ancestral Protectors and then run and/or hide. Rogue stuff gives you the mobility you need to avoid too much melee, and you're raging so you can take the occasional hit when you need to.

Corran

2023-07-27, 01:42 PM

Build goal: Slippery "evasion tank"
Best combat role that ever existed. I mean it.

Final build: Halfling Rogue 17 (soulknife) / Barbarian 3 (ancestral guardian)
Level Progression: Rog2 > Bbn3 > Rog17
I get that soulknife carries some flavor from the description below. But putting character concept aside, does it offer any good synergies? For example, I am thinking that BB (eg from arcane trickster) would be a nice addition to the way the build plays. And even though extra attack would not be an amazing dpr boost (since you'll be attacking with advantage often anyway), it would still be great for grapples (pair it with expertise, advantage when raging, and increased movement to drag your opponent further when needed).

ps: Ah, I get it. The throwing knives allow you to not even engage in melee. Little bit of redundancy with reckless attack. I'd still favor reckless + BB + wood elf but that's more personal taste than anything else.

Nigel was an unassuming halfling janitor. He enjoyed tea with crumpets, cribbage, and bragging about his distant relations, a famously dangerous warrior tribe back in the Old Country. But one day, unbeknownst to him, the last relation in that tribe halfway across the globe kicked the bucket - and his supernatural heirloom, the Ghostblade of Agandria, reverted to him as the closest heir to the ancient bloodline. Meaning one day, he accidentally punches through a wall trying to make his morning coffee and then the spirits of his (largely unimpressed) warrior ancestors start talking to him. Now they're telling him he has to go take back some throne or another to maintain the tribe's honor. Thankfully, the spirits of the ancestors and the mystic blade itself do a lot of the work helping him out...
Dont forget to have him praise Tymora at the end of every fight. For keeping him alive that is. Stupid ancestry and mystical powers got him in trouble, so it would make sense for him to want to think that someone's on his corner and keeps an eye out for him.

If at any point you have he has a personality shift, I strongly recommend adding an irritating laughter every time you disengage from a cursed enemy.

Mechanically, the concept is that rogues have a lot of mobility that makes them good and hit-and-run tactics, but their damage is mediocre so they don't have a lot of impact when the DO hit. But what if their one decent hit a round did a massive debuff on top of the mediocre damage, encouraging enemies to chase them all over the place? So conceptually, this guy is tossing a dagger or getting in a quick stab and then running for his life each round while his ancestral spirits protect him.
Yes. You just made me miss 4e.

Concept aside, I could see a wood elf being good here. Elven accruracy and the speed boost would be very handy. Plus, they have that other trait that makes them great in natural obscurement.

In combat you rage, get in a hit against the most dangerous melee threat each round, and then scramble away so he either has to attack for half damage with disadvantage or try to chase you down. Reckless Attack lets you Sneak Attack every round, and you can usually toss a (psychic) dagger to trigger Ancestral Protectors and then run and/or hide. Rogue stuff gives you the mobility you need to avoid too much melee, and you're raging so you can take the occasional hit when you need to.
With the rage on you could opt to end your movement close to a different enemy than the one you hit. Choose the one with the highest attack bonus (so that rage will work better) if you can have an idea of the enemies' attack bonuses. Or use rage and avoid hit and run. That's to make the best of your few rages if you want (unless I am missing anything). You could explain the change in behaviour as the curse/ghost taking over you sometimes (or inspiring you with overwhelming confidence/bravery).

solidork

2023-07-27, 02:17 PM

Hmm. Dex instead of con save prof... I am reserving judgement till I see what you'll do with the extra skill.

...

I always end up dropping acrobatis for athletics. Even for the characters who will do acrobatic stuff.

...

ps: While stealth proficiency is by now way mandatory, "X or stealth" seems like a trick of some sort. [COLOR="#0000FF"]I am on to you.

You really do want as many skills as you can get your hands on. If you're starting with a race that gives additional skills (think Half Elf or Tabaxi) and you've got your bases covered then starting Fighter for Con proficiency isn't a bad idea. I'd personally also want to take a knowledge skill like History, because it feels weird to me to be a political agent who has a poor grasp on events and the major players, it's just that I get the feeling that History is something that will vary in usefulness at different tables.

Once upon a time I had skimmed through rune knight and I remember I liked rune of stone and cloud. What do they do though?

Cloud gives you advantage on Deception and Sleight of Hand all the time, as well as a 1/sr ability to redirect a successful attack to any target within 30ft. Obviously great in any game where theres fighting, but also an interesting tool in a cloak and dagger game.

Stone gives you 120ft darkvision, advantage on Insight and an ability to incapacitate someone in a fashion very similar to Hypnotic Pattern - they're charmed, incapacitated and their speed is 0, though they get repeated saves.

Fire gives you double proficiency on tools and the ability to restrain someone with fiery shackles when you hit them. Not a subtle active ability in the least, but powerful and effective.

Any cool ideas for slight of hand?

Slipping people notes, picking their pockets and any general feat of manual dexterity usually falls under sleight of hand. I'm playing in the recently released campaign that is a bunch of heists, and picking peoples' pockets has been a pretty big deal in several of them.

The build is solid. But put the dots together and tell us what kind of stuff will this character be doing.
For example, my favourite spy trope is the spy who is everyone's favourite friend. Well, not everyone's. We are still killing bad guys (not the ones we are working for, other bad guys) because we are obviously a hero. So I'll put some emphasis on persuasion and from then on it's mostly rp (oh, and buy in from the rest of the group).

To give you an idea of where I was at when I first considered this combination, I'm currently making a character for a one shot that draws heavily on Zorro and the Count of Monte Cristo - both swashbuckling adventures that have an element of a secret identity. You could go as far as to have a full second identity - noble who makes subtle political moves as themselves and makes bolder moves as a masked giant vigilante - or something more reserved where you present yourself as a brash and charming but uncomplicated as a smokescreen to get people to underestimate you and mask your subtler moves.

I think the ideal situation would be to pair up with another player who is playing someone with status and setting yourself up as their jovial friend/bodyguard/rival.

Clause

2023-07-27, 08:10 PM

Tong pô, the one who open the 7 gates of kharma:
Guardian aasimar astral self monk 12, rune knight4, bladesong wizard 4.

Posology: take 3 levels of rune Knight, so you can turn on a large humanoid (first gate)
And now, 3 levels in bladesinger wizard, this willgive us inteligence on AC(second gate), and other bonus

Continue taking 3 astral self monk levels. (The arms are the 3rd gate)
Here the engines go on: grow to large, use the arms of astral self, the bladesong bonus, the aasimar transformation, the fire rune, and things will go realy wield.

At the next levels take the monk to 5, fighter to 4 and wizard to 4. And up monh until 12.
The AC bonis acumulate, and you will have AC 27, a damage of 1d12(large unarmed)+level(radiant)+5 wisdow+2d6 fire from rune. In a total 5 attacks per round(2 base+3 from flury of blows) and you can deflect ani misles returning them with YOURS damage. 120ft darkvision. Giant passive perception and insight.
And a REALY stylish character

ZRN

2023-07-28, 11:20 AM

Best combat role that ever existed. I mean it.

I get that soulknife carries some flavor from the description below. But putting character concept aside, does it offer any good synergies? For example, I am thinking that BB (eg from arcane trickster) would be a nice addition to the way the build plays. And even though extra attack would not be an amazing dpr boost (since you'll be attacking with advantage often anyway), it would still be great for grapples (pair it with expertise, advantage when raging, and increased movement to drag your opponent further when needed).

Remember, no spellcasting while raging, so AT doesn't work so well. You could definitely make a case for some other subclasses - phantom would work okay with some reflavoring, and thief or mastermind could have some benefits - but it's mostly the non-attack abilities that draw me to soulknife. The group telepathy is just cool, the skill bonuses help make up for the fact that you've got lower dex than a straight rogue, and eventually teleporting around helps with the mobility focus of this build. Attack-wise, the level 9 Homing Strikes can help assure you really do land a blow.

ps: Ah, I get it. The throwing knives allow you to not even engage in melee. Little bit of redundancy with reckless attack. I'd still favor reckless + BB + wood elf but that's more personal taste than anything else.

Yeah, this build tries for options - when you have the chance to melee you can use Reckless, but when you don't have a spare bonus action for Disengage it might be better to stay back and toss your soulblade(s).

Dont forget to have him praise Tymora at the end of every fight. For keeping him alive that is. Stupid ancestry and mystical powers got him in trouble, so it would make sense for him to want to think that someone's on his corner and keeps an eye out for him.

If at any point you have he has a personality shift, I strongly recommend adding an irritating laughter every time you disengage from a cursed enemy.

lol

Yes. You just made me miss 4e.

Concept aside, I could see a wood elf being good here. Elven accruracy and the speed boost would be very handy. Plus, they have that other trait that makes them great in natural obscurement.

Halfling works well mechanically but it's also partly for the fun disconnect between appearance/personality and skillset: it's funny that this 3'6" indoors kid can suddenly punch through walls and summon angry ghosts. But yeah, wood elf (or one of the fancy elves, like shadar-kai) would work well too.

With the rage on you could opt to end your movement close to a different enemy than the one you hit. Choose the one with the highest attack bonus (so that rage will work better) if you can have an idea of the enemies' attack bonuses. Or use rage and avoid hit and run. That's to make the best of your few rages if you want (unless I am missing anything). You could explain the change in behaviour as the curse/ghost taking over you sometimes (or inspiring you with overwhelming confidence/bravery).

My goal is to hit and run each turn - as long as you're attacking each turn rage won't shut off.

Corran

2023-07-29, 04:16 AM

You really do want as many skills as you can get your hands on. If you're starting with a race that gives additional skills (think Half Elf or Tabaxi) and you've got your bases covered then starting Fighter for Con proficiency isn't a bad idea.
Yeah, I get that.

I'd personally also want to take a knowledge skill like History, because it feels weird to me to be a political agent who has a poor grasp on events and the major players, it's just that I get the feeling that History is something that will vary in usefulness at different tables.
Usefulness aside, lacking knowledge skills does not necessarily have to be weird. If the character lacked the kind of upbringing that would allow them to study, you can still end up with a political/religious agent who is more of a tool than a spymaster. In certain bits, actual knowledge can be replaced by propaganda, indoctrination or bias from personal experience, in other bits it can be replaced by information given/gathered, and in some other bits it can be replaced by just having faith in that those who pull your strings know what and act towards what's best.

I had this problem with the religion skill with one character. I decided against taking it and I was a little worried that it would come back to hurt me. It wasn't as bad. The occasions it hurt me most was when dealing with (usually high ranked) religious figures (though it was in conjunction with playing a character of low birth), whom I just could not just persuade to change stance when it came to religious matters. Part of the campaign premise was that the world has been shocked by what seemed like a miraculous/apocalyptic (depending on which side of the religious fence you were) event, as in various parts of the kingdom the dead were rising (many of them not as mindless undead, but having kept their whole or parts of their personality from when they were alive). So while my character had not been able to change the mind of the head priest of some frontier town into taking action against the raised guard of some long abandoned nearby keep, I was still able to win most people serving under that priest. Because a fiery speech and a good charisma roll will win those who want to prove themselves brave and faithful over the warranted warnings for caution of an educated theologian who desperately insists that saint's [I dont remember the name] "death will be beaten by life" quote can be interpreted in more ways than the certainty of victory of those whose faith is strong against the undead. One speech later and I had eyes and ears in that temple, along with a small fighting force (of newbies) that were eager to fight the dead (and perhaps in time, those who were reluctant to do so).

Cloud gives you advantage on Deception and Sleight of Hand all the time, as well as a 1/sr ability to redirect a successful attack to any target within 30ft. Obviously great in any game where theres fighting, but also an interesting tool in a cloak and dagger game.

Stone gives you 120ft darkvision, advantage on Insight and an ability to incapacitate someone in a fashion very similar to Hypnotic Pattern - they're charmed, incapacitated and their speed is 0, though they get repeated saves.

Fire gives you double proficiency on tools and the ability to restrain someone with fiery shackles when you hit them. Not a subtle active ability in the least, but powerful and effective.
Thanks! I wonder how redirecting a successful attack works. Do you redirect the attack itself or do you just transfer the damage? Cause it could make a big difference if you could make it so that someone is seen as attacking someone else.

Slipping people notes, picking their pockets and any general feat of manual dexterity usually falls under sleight of hand. I'm playing in the recently released campaign that is a bunch of heists, and picking peoples' pockets has been a pretty big deal in several of them.
I guess I haven't had that many opportunities for it to shine then.

To give you an idea of where I was at when I first considered this combination, I'm currently making a character for a one shot that draws heavily on Zorro and the Count of Monte Cristo - both swashbuckling adventures that have an element of a secret identity. You could go as far as to have a full second identity - noble who makes subtle political moves as themselves and makes bolder moves as a masked giant vigilante - or something more reserved where you present yourself as a brash and charming but uncomplicated as a smokescreen to get people to underestimate you and mask your subtler moves.
So, a different set of clothes, a mask and different size. Perhaps you can further reinforce the secret identity element by having one persona fighting with the psychic knives and one without. Major image (from an ally) or a means for one to disguise as your character, could help if the masked man becomes a known affiliate of the party (cause it could eventually become suspicious if your character is missing every time the masked man appears with the party).

I am not sure how much I would be able to use the secret identity during actual play, so my first thought is to use it as a rumor I would spread. Use one of the floating too proficiencies for an instrument or pick performance, and use song, tale or whatever other spectacle can get people thinking and talking about what they heard, to spread the news that it was the not-Zorro who accomplished whatever it was that your party did. One benefit would be that this way I would be able to draw some attention towards this mysterious figure and away from the party (say, if the party is going after a cult, criminals, or whoever else can strike back at you once you've dealt your first blow). Eventually, if I could grow the rumor enough, I would use it kind like a background feature. Look, here is the sigil of the not-Zorro, we are working for him. And depending on what not-Zorro is rumored to be doing in the game world, this might allow you some kind of benefit, like many backgrounds do (eg acolyte, soldier, folk hero, noble, etc). Just random ideas.

I think the ideal situation would be to pair up with another player who is playing someone with status and setting yourself up as their jovial friend/bodyguard/rival.
Definitely. It can help justify your character sticking with the party. It can give your secret identity purpose if you are working with the other players into accomplishing side goals (eg if you are working for them). It can do lots of things. It's a good idea. Such concepts are realized easier with help from the other players and the DM.

Bardon

2023-07-29, 10:59 PM

Thanks! I wonder how redirecting a successful attack works. Do you redirect the attack itself or do you just transfer the damage? Cause it could make a big difference if you could make it so that someone is seen as attacking someone else.

"In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll. This magic can transfer the attack's effects regardless of the attack's range. Once you invoke this rune, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest."

So you transfer the roll firstly - which means that 17 that easily hits the squishy just bounces off your Paladin without impact! Even better, take that nat-20 the enemy rolled & redirect the critical hit to their wizard!

Cloud rune can literally turn a battle around, if used with care.

Also, look at potentially going Eladrin for a rune knight - On a long rest you can gain two proficiencies that you don’t have, each one with a weapon or a tool of your choice selected from the Player’s Handbook. You mystically acquire these proficiencies by drawing them from shared elven memory, and you retain them until you finish your next long rest.

So if you've gotten the Fire rune (which is another good thing to use against squishy types - they tend to do badly at Strength saves then taking damage every round plus Restrained is pretty effective) you can take a long rest and give yourself the tool proficiency you want for the next day, and Fire auto-doubles the proficiency bonus! You become a master of all trades!

stoutstien

2023-07-30, 07:02 AM

"In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll. This magic can transfer the attack's effects regardless of the attack's range. Once you invoke this rune, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest."

So you transfer the roll firstly - which means that 17 that easily hits the squishy just bounces off your Paladin without impact! Even better, take that nat-20 the enemy rolled & redirect the critical hit to their wizard!

Cloud rune can literally turn a battle around, if used with care.

Also, look at potentially going Eladrin for a rune knight - On a long rest you can gain two proficiencies that you don’t have, each one with a weapon or a tool of your choice selected from the Player’s Handbook. You mystically acquire these proficiencies by drawing them from shared elven memory, and you retain them until you finish your next long rest.

So if you've gotten the Fire rune (which is another good thing to use against squishy types - they tend to do badly at Strength saves then taking damage every round plus Restrained is pretty effective) you can take a long rest and give yourself the tool proficiency you want for the next day, and Fire auto-doubles the proficiency bonus! You become a master of all trades!

The Rune Knight's fire rune is even stronger than people realize in that the only way to escape is to pass the save or wait for it to time out.
Can't teleport out of it, blocking sight can help make attacks miss but if it hits it can stick, allies can't help, taking the the RK out does nothing, and even if you are immune to the fire damage potion you stuck.

Cloud and storm get a lot of press but fire is a workhorse and only one that can be sewn into your actions rather than taking one.

xRazoZane

2023-07-30, 01:40 PM

In combat you rage, get in a hit against the most dangerous melee threat each round, and then scramble away so he either has to attack for half damage with disadvantage or try to chase you down. Reckless Attack lets you Sneak Attack every round, and you can usually toss a (psychic) dagger to trigger Ancestral Protectors and then run and/or hide. Rogue stuff gives you the mobility you need to avoid too much melee, and you're raging so you can take the occasional hit when you need to.

This looks like a really fun build!!!

Wraith

2023-07-31, 03:57 PM

I’ve been toying with the idea of a character who specializes in thrown weapons. There’s the generic version which is based on the old 3.5 edition of the “Hulking Hurler”, wherein you stack a bunch of Strength onto a Barbarian and take a feat or two that lets you ignore penalties for using random heavy junk as a weapon, but this one which requires more precision for a more ninja-y feel.

The Death Darter

Build Goal: Evasive, High DPS specialist in thrown weapons
Build End: Ranger (Horizon Walker) 11 / Rogue (Scout) 9
Progression: Ranger +5 / Rogue +4 / Ranger +6 / Rogue +5
Starting stats: DEX 15 (+2 from race), WIS 13

Race: Grung
Fighting Style: Thrown Weapon Style
Recommended Feats: Piercer; Sharpshooter; Mobile; Telekinetic (To retrieve a magic weapon that has gone awry!)
Other requirements: None - Sadly, there are no official boomerangs in the game that return when thrown, but a custom-made magic item with the “Returning” property would be appropriate and useful if you can swing it with your DM.

Grung have a wonderful little ability called “Poison Skin” which allows them to add 2d4 Poison damage (on a failed DC12 save) to each of their attack rolls, so we make as many attacks as we can to invoke this ability as often as possible, and later on improve it with a more favorable damage type which then get pumped by Sneak Attack.

At first level we take Thrown Weapon Style which lets us reload darts and daggers for free - this essentially gives us 2 attacks every turn, which hardly suffer at all for not having Two Weapon Fighting because we have poisoned weapons (+2d4) instead of the +3 we’d otherwise get from our DEX stat.

At level 3 we will choose Horizon Walker as our Conclave. This is important because it lets us swap our damage type to Force rather than Poison, which is literally a swap from the most easily resisted/ignored damage type to the most difficult. It does take up our bonus action to do so, but at worst we’re swapping an off-hand attack for a free hand to start using a shield if we want to, continuing to throw two darts if we’re sure that the enemy is susceptible to venom.

At level 4, Piercer is a good feat to take. It rounds our DEX up to 18 and makes our damage dice more consistent - we’re rolling plenty with each attack, so chances are we can always make use of a reroll.

Ranger at level 5 could potentially be left for a little later in the build, but I think that Extra Attack is worth having as turning 1d4+2d4+1d8+4 into 2d4+4d4+2d8+8 will carry us pretty well for the next few levels while things even out.

At level 6 and 7 we start taking Rogue levels, primarily for Sneak Attack dice (which become Force Damage along with everything else) but also for maneuverability. While at this point we’re not much worse in melee than we are ranged if we’re forced into it, Cunning Action will allow us to cover more of the battlefield and strike whoever we want with precision, rather than being stuck face-to-face with just one unlucky goon.

At level 8 we have a choice between Scout and Assassin as our Rogue subclass. Personally I prefer Scout as being able to move faster is more gooderer and (at Rogue 9) becomes funnier because Grung have a natural climbing speed so we can run up a wall and snipe with impunity if we want to.
Assassin is a worthwhile alternative as it’s a reliable way to get Advantage on someone every turn, but the trade off is that you’ll probably end up taking more Horizon Walker levels to become as mobile as the Scouts. Similarly, you don’t gain much from extra identities and disguises - there’s only so much you can do to hide the fact that you’re a 3 foot frog and not the Firbolg that was expected….

Further progression:
More Ranger/Less Rogue - You can teleport about the battlefield, picking and choosing our victims and ruining their day. You’re likely an Assassin, so that you can consistently get venomous Sneak Attacks rather than just bigger and bigger numbers.

Less Ranger/More Rogue - You’re primarily a Scout, running about the place to get into good Sneak Attack positions for *lots* of damage. It’s slightly less consistent than the Assassin, but more flexible (especially against enemies like Constructs and Undead, who tend to ignore Poison).

Less Ranger (4) /Less Rogue (4) /More Fighter (X) - The third path means taking 3 levels of Fighter/Battlemaster because who doesn’t want Action Surge? Similarly, there are several maneuvers which can be interesting - particularly Distracting Strike (to give yourself Advantage for Sneak Attacking) and Pushing Attack (to give you space to use your ranged attacks without worry).

tokek

2023-07-31, 04:56 PM

The Unsubtle Spy

Rogue 1/Rune Knight 3

This is quite similar to the Rune Knight / Fey Wanderer build I sort of semi-stumbled into (was supposed to be RK / Rogue but the try out with the local thief guild went bad)

Disguise kit from Gladiator Background. Hobgoblin race

Took Fire Rune and Cloud Rune early. Added other runes later - take note that activating runes does not have a verbal or somatic component. Storm Rune is advantage for a minute, or disadvantage on enemy rolls to work out what stunt you are pulling.

This was enormous fun during a sustained story arc with slavers and slave traders, with advantage on Deception and double proficiency on Disguise he pulled off pretending to be a Hobgoblin slaver several times. On two occasions managing to get the rest of the party into where we were going "disguised" as recently captured slaves.

I wouldn't over-invest in Deception unless you are running a very intrigue heavy game, proficiency plus advantage will give you a pretty reliable roll and when I started adding the wisdom mod as well it was really very sweet.

It worked strongly because it was rolled stats and other than one or two good stats I had a lot of "decent but not incredible" ability scores. So adding Wis and Cha modifiers together was a stronger thing than it would be with point buy.

tokek

2023-07-31, 05:09 PM

The Rune Knight's fire rune is even stronger than people realize in that the only way to escape is to pass the save or wait for it to time out.
Can't teleport out of it, blocking sight can help make attacks miss but if it hits it can stick, allies can't help, taking the the RK out does nothing, and even if you are immune to the fire damage potion you stuck.

Cloud and storm get a lot of press but fire is a workhorse and only one that can be sewn into your actions rather than taking one.

Fire Rune is indeed a workhorse. It has zero action economy cost on a fighter who probably wanted to be taking the attack action anyway and it can really mess some things up. The combo with Storm Rune is a little oppressive against some opponents - apply disadvantage to the save on a flying enemy hit them with Fire Rune and watch them crash and burn.

Double expertise on tools is not a big deal but its not nothing. It works nicely with Disguise Kit and Thieves tools which are relevant to this sort of build.

For the build we are discussing here I would definitely take Cloud Rune and Fire Rune first. Then add Storm Rune at level 7. Then Stone Rune at level 10 - because having the insight to see that the guard is suspicious then leaving them dribbling and helpless for a minute is hilarious.

Talionis

2023-08-01, 09:22 PM

Ganryu

2023-08-01, 10:48 PM

(Sorry, didn't notice there was already a barb/rogue, but, different take on it)

The Angry Commander
5 Barb/ 11 rogue/ 4 fighter

Ever challenge a BBEG to a fight, and get annoyed that they can actually hurt you? What if you could half the damage... twice? And all the while, barking orders, telling allies and enemy's alike what they can and can't do, and absolutely scream "SNEAK ATTACK!" in their faces while raging? Well, we have a build for that!

22 AC by the end, Evasion + Danger sense, quarter attack rolls, sneak attack whenever you like, action surge to guarentee one painful turn, and the leadership as if you were a warlord! Contrary to people thinking martials 'go bonk', you have a lot of choices EVERY turn with this. Are you staying and tanking? Are you moving? Are you dictating someone to help you {or healing with variant}? Where on the battlefield do you want to be? What do you want to use your reaction for? Are you using dex or strength to attack? Do you want to expertise stealth and ambush the ever living crap out of someone while raging? This class FEELS like a battlefield commander. I'm playing one, DM let switch out Dex for charisma on unarmored defense, and it's roleplaying blast too! (I have expertise performance. Commander's presence. Am looking for manual of leadership, and am a literal jester)

Half elf - Need these stats, and half elf is only one to give you 4 stats. We're assuming Tasha let's you redistribute the base stats. Pick Wood Elf for extra speed. {I'm actually half drow for story, doesn't matter too much}

Overall:

15+1 STR
15+2 DEX
15+1 CON
8 INT
8 WIS
8 CHA
Weapon: Rapier + Shield.
AC: 18

Lvl 1 - Go barb, big hit die is big hit die
Barb 1

Lvl 2 - no real options, but danger sense is better on this build than most barbs.
Barb 2

Lvl 3 - Bearbarian, we loves us some resistances! Tasha's also gives us an extra proficiency.
Barb 3

Lvl 4 - Feat - We'll take a half feat here to round up our Dex. A dirty little secret here is our STR is never going to be maxed out, but, honestly, all damage ride ons later and reckless make this alright.
* Resilent - Dex - Rogue levels love it later on.
Barb 4
AC: 19

Lvl 5 - Extra attack, and movement speed buff. Now, this build loves the movement speed buff. Sadly, we will only ever have 3 rages. Please rage responsibly. Or don't.
Barb 5

Lvl 6- We're switching classes! Barb is great and all, but it runs out of 'POWER!' after 5. But you know what never does? Sneak attack! We'll be using a rapier to get it consistently. But, we'll be switching between dex and str depending on how we want to fight {Reckless? Str. Regular turn? Dex is higher} Pick rogue, grab two expertise, go for roleplay! Athletics is always nice to have.
Barb 5/ Rogue 1

Lvl 7- Cunning Action. This build loooove cunning action, because you can disengage as a bonus action, or dash with your increased movement speed. That's 135 feet of movement a turn. Tell the monk to suck it. Unlike the monk, you can jump without ki points too. You get to decide whether or not you're sticking around and fighting, or if you're getting out of dodge. Bonus points if you high five the wizard as you run past him with an enemy barrelling after you. Triple if you catcall the enemy and spent one of your expertise in performance to do ventriloquism
Barb 5/ Rogue 2

Lvl 8 - This one is highly up to you to chose what subclass you prefer. General build, I like Mastermind rogue, because I get to chose on my bonus action to help an ally, so it feels like I'm commanding the battlefield, chosing who to help me destroy and enemy and direct them.
One alternative in this class for one less AC is to take thief archetype and grab healer feat. You can now heal on the front line while laughing at an enemy hitting you.
Barb 5/ Rogue 3

Lvl 9 - ASI - +2 Dex - More for helping upcoming levels, but, hey, now str/dex deal equal damage on your finesse weapon!
AC: 20.
Barb 5/ Rogue 4

Lvl 10 - Hey! This class is now online. Uncanny Dodge is something you'll get more mileage out of than a lot of rogues, because things are attacking you, and you have the HP to not die. Oh, and resistance to everything not psychic.
Barb 5/ Rogue 5

Lvl 11 - Multiclassing again?! Well, yeah, fighter has some nice goodies for us on a relatively short side trip. Take dueling fighting style, the +2 bump will help with the fact that we're never maxing strength, and is equal to your rage damage when using dex. Alternatively, can keep going straight rogue. The ASI's we're putting off might hurt.
Barb 5/ Rogue 5/ Fighter 1

Lvl 12 - Action surge is always good. However, holding ONE of your actions as a held action to do another attack the moment it isn't your turn to trigger sneak attack twice in one round is great! Be aware you can't use cunning dodge if you do this, but, sometimes, an enemy needs a grave, and the only way to get them in the grave is to bash the ground open with their body and call them 'puny gods'.
Barb 5/ Rogue 5/ Fighter 2

Lvl 13 - Battlemaster. We are the commander afterall. Honestly, you can't go wrong here. This, btw, is why we upped dex instead of con earlier, to increase any saving throws.
Riposte - With your sneak attacks? This is great.
IF you have a paly or rogue in party, commander's strike is really thematic.
Disarming attack is always great.
Maneuvering Attack for getting an ally out of dodge, telling them to run while you hold off the enemy.
Trip attack - Always good
Tactical Assessment/Commander's Presence- Roleplay help for you having an 8 in every mental stat! Add this and expertise, watch the bard cry as you, with your 8 charisma, pick up his failed flirting attempt and succeed!
Barb 5/ Rogue 5/ Fighter 3

Lvl 14 - Back to Rogue! That sweet, sweet sneak attack damage has missed us. Pick two more expertise. Pick on the bard! He deserves it!

Barb 5/ Rogue 6/ Fighter 3
Lvl 15 - Roguing rogue stuff. Oh hey, Evasion! This'll go nicely with our 18 Dex and Danger sense.
Barb 5/ Rogue 7/ Fighter 3

Lvl 16 - Well, it's taken us a while, but we finally got our 3rd ASI... +2 Con
AC 21
Barb 5/ Rogue 8/ Fighter 3

Lvl 17 - Oh boy! I wonder if anyone's int/wis/cha skills are better than us! {Mastermind rogue}. Otherwise, subclass upgrade. And sneak attack I guess? We'll never say no to that.
Barb 5/ Rogue 9/ Fighter 3

Lvl 18 - AND OUR 4TH ASI! Doesn't seem so long ago we hit our 3rd. We're. Welp, +2 Con, maxing it out.
AC - 22
Barb 5/ Rogue 10/ Fighter 3

Lvl 19 - Reliable talent! We'll never say no to that.
Barb 5/ Rogue 11/ Fighter 3

Lvl 20 - And for our epic capstone, we get bestowed... another Feat/ASI? We'll take it. We could take rogue 12, but, uh, we get exactly 1 extra hp going fighter!
Tough is a great capstone, we're a little less than pure barb.
Barb 5/ Rogue 11/ Fighter 4

Pros - We have a LOT of options in combat and don't really fear being in the thick of it. Sneak attack gives us pretty consistent extra damage, and at least one will hit, and we CAN force it with reckless pretty consistently.
Con - You ever get charmed, kiss your party goodbye. But, if you're like me, that's less a con, and more a hilarious pro to watch. It's regular no good mental saves. You are a martial god, but, a very, very dumb one. Also, we need all of our ASI's, but they don't really come til far later in the build.

DM: "You're charmed. Attack the wizard or bard."
Gan: "With pleasure, can I action surge so I can hit both?" {/jk}

tokek

2023-08-12, 07:59 AM

Righteous Polar Bear
Celestial Warlock 5/Path of the Giant Barbarian 15

Race : Shifter/Wildhunt
Background : Giant Foundling / Strike of the Giants (Frost)

This one is about combining a few things. Wild hunt shifter negates enemy advantage which for a barbarian can mean Reckless without the downside. Celestial Warlock adds in some nice utility and in-combat BA healing that is not a spell so you can use it while raging. The combination of Armor of Agathys and rage is always nice but this build does not lean into it as hard as it possibly could. A big old polar bear shifter inspired by celestial zeal when it fights.

15+1 STR
12 DEX
14+2 CON
8 INT
9 WIS
13 CHA
Weapon: Spear

AC: 12 - so get some better armor as soon as possible!

Lvl 1 - Warlock first partly because that Wis save proficiency is going to help a lot in the mid-levels. With moderate HP and some healing try to survive this level. Strike of the Giants gives you a bit of control - its not Sentinel but its not nothing. Armor of Agathys is the main spell here.
Warlock 1 / Celestial.

Lvl 2 - Barbarian time. Grab the best medium armor you can afford and a shield. You should now have AC 17 but you are AC16 unarmored w/shield which is not too bad on a barbarian at least while raging.
Warlock 1 / Barbarian 1

Lvl 3 - More barbarian. You now have Reckless attack so your first trick comes online. Shift and Reckless for advantage with no penalty for doing so vs targets within 30'. Danger Sense props up that weak Dex save
Warlock 1 / Barbarian 2

Lvl 4 - Path of the Giants. Now you have reach when you rage plus a bonus with thrown weapons. So grab a javelin but be aware that it will be awkward next level due to object handling
Warlock 1 / Barbarian 3

Lvl 5 - Feat Polearm Master. Trigger reaction attacks to try to stop things with your strike of the giants and grab that BA attack
Warlock 1 / Barbarian 4

Lvl 6- Second attack - now we are beginning to really get there
Warlock 1 / Barbarian 5

Lvl 7- Elemental Cleaver. Elemental damage, bonus damage on every attack, returning weapon. This is just an awesome level. Throw thunderbolts.
Warlock 1 / Barbarian 6

Lvl 8 - Back to Warlock and we are getting invocations. I would tend to pick these based on campaign because we are not relying on them in combat really.
Warlock 2 / Barbarian 6

Lvl 9 - Another warlock level and now we have 2nd level slots and will take Pact of the Chain. Change an invocation to Gift of the Ever Living ones to maximise the self healing
Warlock 3 / Barbarian 6

Lvl 10 - Another warlock level and we are taking Fury of the Frost Giant feat, increase Con to 17 for now
Warlock 4 / Barbarian 6

Lvl 11 - The last Warlock level we will take gives us 3rd level slots which are very nice for Armor of Agathys and not bad for other things when we are not raging. Tomb of Levistus is a very thematic invocation to take
Warlock 5 / Barbarian 6

Lvl 12+ Barbarian all the way. A few milestones here
Level 13 another ASI and we will take the ASI for +1 Con and +1 Wis - rounding both up for more resilience
Level 15 we get to throw our friends around the battlefield with Mighty Impel
Lvl 19 gives us Demiurge Colossus for Huge Size, even more reach, even more damage and the ability to throw large creatures around
Lvl 20 gives us effectively unlimited rage as a pseudo-capstone

Nod_Hero

2023-08-17, 08:04 AM

Righteous Polar Bear
Celestial Warlock 5/Path of the Giant Barbarian 15

This looks like fun!

Clause

2023-08-17, 07:28 PM

Joe the Rat

2023-08-21, 03:05 PM

tokek

2023-08-21, 03:13 PM

I always love to see an Ice Fiend (WarBarian) build. Interesting to find that middle ground between retribution damage and defense, and I love keeping in the element theme here.

I'm glad you like it. Allowing for dice roll stats rather than point buy I'm pretty much playing this build. I'm interested to see how it goes but the theme is fun and so far its been solid enough.

DarknessEternal

2023-08-22, 01:03 AM

Sharutto.

Using mithral full plate like a medium armor,

.

Mithral plate is still heavy armor.

RogueJK

2023-08-22, 09:17 AM

Sharutto.
Variant human. Solamnic knight(background)

Atributes, all 13.

Echo knoght figther 5, colege of swords bard 4, gloom stalker(or hunter) ranger 4, fighter7...

Fighting styles: Thrown Weapon Fighting (from fighter level), dwelling(from swords bard), and defence(from ranger)

Feats: squire of solamnia(from background)

Knight of the sword( by race) improving cons.

Knight of the Crow (lvl 4) improving cons.

Iniciate of hight sorver (lvl 9) your bard levels give you magic, so you can take this

Adept of the black robes (lvl13)

Shadow touched(lvl 17) improve charisma.

Poisoneer lvl 20.

...

As shadow toutched, take the spell: shadow blade.

...

Sou your damage will be: 2d8(shadow blade)+1d4(favored foe substituction)+1d4(if gloomstalker)+1d6(bard flourish)+number of hitpoints you burn+ 1d8 (knight of sword)+1d8(knight os crow at the reaction imediate attack)+str or dx bonus+ poison. You can put the blooming blade cantrip in the count.

...

You will have a enormous CA. 18(armor) +2shield +1(defensive style) +1d6 from flourish, +4per hit, (if hunter). And enemies yiu hit, have disvantage to hit you(knight feats). AND if killed, its only a shadow clone.

Six issues with this build:

1) All 13s in every stat is not typically doable with the standard stat generation methods. 27 Point Buy will only get you 13/13/13/13/13/10. Standard Array doesn't grant all 13s. Even rolling for stats you're unlikely to end up with all 13s.

2) Knight of the Sword can only add +1 to INT/WIS/CHA, not CON.

3) Even if you could get all 13s, at the final 20th level build, best case scenario, your stats would only be something like:
STR 13
DEX 14 (13 + 1 racial)
CON 14 (13 + 1 Crown Knight)
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 16 (13 + 1 racial + 1 Shadow Touched + 1 Sword Knight)

A Tier 2/3/4 martial character with only a 14 in their primary attack stat is well behind the expected progression curve, and will struggle to hit what they're attacking with just a +2 attack stat bonus.

4) This build doesn't have access to Shadow Blade. Shadow Blade can't be taken with the Shadow Touched feat, since it's a 2nd level spell, not a 1st level spell. It's also not an option with the Adept of the Black Robes or Initiate of High Magic feats either. Your only class that gets 2nd level spells known is Bard, Shadow Blade is not a Bard spell, and you don't have enough Bard levels to take it as a Magical Secret.

Not only that, even if you did have access to Shadow Blade, you still wouldn't be able to use the Black Robes' Life Channel with your Shadow Blade attacks. That ability only applies to damage-dealing spells that involve an enemy failing a save, and the Shadow Blade spell doesn't involve any saving throws.

(You could potentially gain access to Shadow Blade by going Adept of the Red Robes instead, since it's an Illusion spell. But Red doesn't get Life Channel, though the two don't play nice together anyway as discussed above, so that may not be a problem if you're dead-set on getting Shadow Blade.)

5) With only a 16 CHA and no Font of Inspiration, you have just three Blade Flourish d6s per day. So you could add +1d6 to your AC and damage three times before you're totally spent until tomorrow.

6) Booming Blade only allows for 1 attack per turn. So you can make 2x/3x attacks on your turn using Extra Attack, or make 1x attack using Booming Blade. You don't get to stack Booming Blade's damage on top of each of your Extra Attacks.

So you end up with a 20th level quasi-martial/quasi-spellcaster with a 14 attack stat, a 16 casting stat, and only 1st and 2nd level spells known (and a few 3rd level slots for upcasting), plus only a smattering of low level class/subclass abilities that can only be used a couple times per day, and zero high level spells or class abilities. You'd be trying to keep up with 20th level PCs with full stats and full martial/spellcaster class progression abilities, including up to 9th level spells known. This is going to be extremely disappointing in play, being significantly behind the power curve of both your other allies and your enemies.

Mithral plate is still heavy armor.

Yep. "Mithril armor becomes one armor category lighter" is a 3E/3.5E/Pathfinder thing. In 5E, it only removes STR requirements and Stealth penalties; it doesn't change the armor category.

That said, it's irrelevant in this particular scenario. They could have Heavy Armor proficiency from starting Fighter, so would be able to use Mithril Full Plate with no nonproficiency penalty and no STR penalty despite only a 13 STR.

RogueJK

2023-08-22, 11:00 AM

Now, let's look at some simple guidelines and alternatives to get around the above build's issues...

When multiclassing in 5E, with very few exceptions it's best to pick one primary class to take most of your levels in, and then just dip a few levels into a secondary class. This ensures that you still get access to high level abilities/spells as you progress into high tiers, without hamstringing yourself with lots of weaker low level abilities/spells but no high level abilities/spells.

Similarly, you'll want to focus on just one or two primary stats with high scores, rather than trying to even out every stat with mediocre scores.

With those two guidelines in mind, you could build a much more effective 20th level "Sharuto" PC with a similar theme using something like:

Echo Knight Fighter 3/Swords Bard 17
STR 10
DEX 15+1
CON 13+1
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 15
And then boost DEX and CHA with ASIs/feats, aiming for 20 DEX and 20 CHA eventually, plus perhaps 16 CON.

This gets high level Bard abilities - including access to Defensive Flourish's +1d6 to damage and AC every single round plus 9th level spellcasting - along with excellent stealth thanks to Stealth Expertise and access to spells like Greater Invisibility, plus you'd still have access to an Echo decoy as well as other similar spellcasting effects like Mirror Image and Mislead. You can still get Shadow Blade, using either Magical Secrets or Adept of the Red Robes, and have plenty of higher level slots for upcasting for increased damage.

Or

Echo Knight Fighter 17/Gloomstalker Ranger 3
STR 10
DEX 15+1
CON 15+1
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 8
And then boost DEX and CON with ASIs/feats, aiming for 20 DEX and 20 CON eventually, plus perhaps 14 WIS.

This gets 3x Extra Attack, high level Fighter and Echo Knight abilities, excellent stealth due to high DEX and Stealth Expertise plus invisibility in darkness, with a boosted first round of attacks. (Up to 10x attacks in Round 1: 3x Extra Attack + 1x Dread Ambusher + 1x Unleash Incarnation + Action Surge 3x Extra Attack + 1x Dread Ambusher + 1x Unleash Incarnation.) You can still get Shadow Blade if desired using Adept of the Red Robes, but it'd only be usable 1x per day and only at its base damage, so likely not worth pursuing.

LumenPlacidum

2023-09-05, 05:05 AM

Though it's a pretty basic concept, I wanted to present a single-class build to get back into the swing of doing some of these.

The Facetank Prancer

Race: Mark of Warding Dwarf
Class/Subclass: Bladesinger Wizard 20
Background: Wildspacer
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 8
Feats/ASIs: Tough @lvl 1, Resilient Con @lvl 4, Squat Nimbleness(Dex16) @lvl 8, Int 18 @lvl 12, Int 20 @lvl 16, Con 20 @lvl 19
Key spells: Armor of Agathys, Blade Ward, Shield, Fire Shield

This is a chassis for a basic wizard, but it provides enormous levels of tankiness and retributive damage.

Your race gives you Armor of Agathys and Mage Armor. Your excellent Constitution and the Tough feat from your background, as well as Armor of Agathys, give you excellent hit points even from level 1, when you have 15 AC and essentially 15 hitpoints. At level 2, you use bladesong to get 18 AC and 23 hitpoints. By the time you hit level 5, you're using your highest level spell slot to cast Armor of Agathys to get 62 total hitpoints. That's higher than your typical barbarian. But wait, you say, barbarians get the lots of hitpoints AND they can rage for resistance to the big damage types.

At level 6 you get the Bladesinger version of Extra Attack. For you, this is mostly going to only indirectly boost your damage, since you're using that free cantrip each turn to cast Blade Ward. Now you have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, just like the raging barbarian. Oh, but you can still use your spells. And you have more hitpoints. And your enemies have to burn through your Armor of Agathys at half the normal rate, while taking full damage back. That 3rd level Armor of Agathys is a good spell for just the 15 temp hp and 15 damage. But, when it's essentially 30 temp hp and most likely 30, 45, or 60 damage? Insane.

At level 7 you add Fire Shield to the mix and make it so that enemies are likely to kill themselves with retributive damage.

I know the common wisdom is to use Abjurer with the Mark of Warding Dwarf, but I prefer Bladesinger for the Blade Ward and for...

At level 10 you get the ability to control how much damage you take. Song of Defense is an ability that people frequently think is too expensive, but the ability to determine how much damage goes into your Armor of Agathys is kind of crazy.

For example, at level 10, you have 92 actual hitpoints and 25 temporary hitpoints. When someone hits you, they take 25 cold damage and 2d8 fire/cold damage.
If they hit you for 18-22 damage, you spend your reaction and a 1st level spell slot to lower the damage by 5. This makes it so that their hit will do no more than 8 damage to the Armor of Agathys after the resistance from Blade Ward.
If they hit you for 23-27 damage, spend a 2nd level slot to lower the damage by 10. Their hit will do no more than 8 damage.
If they hit you for 28-32 damage, spend a 3rd level slot.

With each hit doing no more than 8 damage to you, your Armor of Agathys is guaranteed to last at least four hits. So, by the time you're actually losing hitpoints, your enemy has lost 8d8+100 health of their own. Once your Armor is gone, you can always just switch over to using Shield and being evasive like every other wizard out there!

It's important to note here that nothing I described above had anything to do with Concentration spells! You get all of that and still have your full Concentration open. Throw out a Hypnotic Pattern! It will lower the potential incoming damage and strongly incentivize the enemy to attack you, thus achieving your retributive damage. Don't worry about taking those hits and needing to maintain Concentration. You're actively lowering the damage that connects and ever since level 4, you've had a +9 to Concentration saving throws while in Bladesong, so you automatically pass the saving throw DC for anything under 22 damage.

Honestly, what is an opponent even going to do to you? You have proficiency in the most major status-inflicting saving throws. You may fail the Dex save, but you have Absorb Elements for the most common ones of those. We established that they have great difficulty just battering you to death, and they kill themselves making the attempt. They could try to grab you and throw you off a cliff? No, wait, you roll Acrobatics with Advantage and get +14 to those. Besides, you can Feather Fall.

Some spell slots are better for Armor of Agathys than others, because you have an easy-to-calculate-in-the-moment target damage number. I like 5th level slots for 25 hitpoints, because 24 hitpoints has a bunch of factors. You could do as I described above and aim for a pretty easy-to-achieve 8 point ceiling per incoming hit. You could be more spell-slot expensive and go for a 6-point ceiling (thus achieving 5 reflections) or be really ambitious and go for a 4-point ceiling (and achieve 7 reflections), but that would probably fall apart due to your lack of reactions. I think claiming 100 damage for a 5th level slot plus a handful of 1st through 3rd level slots (with only reaction costs in terms of the action economy) is a great trade.

Now, what I've described is pretty much one very very good trick. What else can you do?

You're still a wizard.

The Facetank Sneak

A variation on the above theme that is more reliable at leveraging AoA at higher levels is this one:

Race: Shadar-Kai Elf
Class/Subclass: Clockwork Soul Sorcerer 1-6, Scout Rogue 1-5, Sorcerer to 15
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16
Feats/ASIs: Elven Accuracy (Dex18) @lvl4, Cha 18 @lvl10, Cha 20 @lvl13, Ritual Caster (Wizard) @lvl17
Key spells: Armor of Agathys, Blade Ward, Shield, Fire Shield, Ashardalon's Stride, Aid, Haste

You claim Armor of Agathys from Clockwork Magic at level 2. You have no native way to be resistant to incoming physical damage every turn, but you do have some racial bonus-action teleports that do the trick from level 3. At level 3, with a 2nd level AoA up, you can use Blessing of the Raven Queen to teleport in among the enemies and have resistance to all damage. Even a 10-point AoA can reflect a few times with that, doing probably 20-30 damage for the cost of the 2nd level slot. Good deal!

You beeline to Sorcerer 6 so that you can get Bastion of Law. Wow. I made a big deal out of Song of Defense above, and while Bastion of Law is more random it doesn't use a reaction. Sink 5 points into a bastion around yourself. Now go and insult a Fomorian's mother. That giant hits pretty hard at 3d8+6, twice. Ordinarily, that's an average of 19 damage, which will crush your AoA in a single hit, cashing in the AoA at 15 damage. But, with a bonus action on Blessing of the Raven Queen, you're resistant, and you can use Bastion of Law. If you use a single Bastion of Law die on each impact, that's going to lower the damage to 1-29, with an average of 15. Then, resistance will kick in and you'll be taking 0-14 damage, with an average of 7. That means that your AoA will cash in at 45 damage.

But wait, you can do better! You get to see what the damage IS before you spend the bastion dice! If you adopt the strategy of spending another die when there's no chance that any part of that die is wasted, then you can average out about 48 damage from the Armor of Agathys overall, as about a quarter of the time it will go to 60 damage (and rarely it does less)

With Uncanny Dodge from Rogue 5, you can also spend your reaction to halve the damage from an attack, essentially making it so that you quarter a single damage a round.

But hey! As long as we're going Rogue with Sorcerer, let's make the Rogue subclass Scout and use our Concentration on Ashardalon's Stride! When you've decided that you've had enough with the damage mitigation, you can move to avoidance! Someone just moved up to attack you? Well, you take some damage, true, but now you move half your speed, which is high, and damage people that you walk past with no save off-turn!

You have solid support options with Aid, Silvery Barbs, Twinned Haste, Longstrider, Counterspell; You have solid utility options with Tiny Servant, Fabricate, Polymorph; You have excellent crowd-control options, as sorcerers usually do. You get to pair this with Rogue for the best mundane-utility class in the game (with possible exception of Artificer).

And you still eventually get up to 8th level spells. Might as well cap with all the Wizard rituals. That's a pile of utility that you get to add on. Take it earlier if you're interested in more options instead of more powerful options. I probably would be.

Clause

2023-09-10, 12:29 AM

Six issues with this build:

4) This build doesn't have access to Shadow Blade. Shadow Blade can't be taken with the Shadow Touched feat, since it's a 2nd level spell, not a 1st level spell. It's also not an option with the Adept of the Black Robes or Initiate of High Magic feats either. Your only class that gets 2nd level spells known is Bard, Shadow Blade is not a Bard spell, and you don't have enough Bard levels to take it as a Magical Secret.

Not only that, even if you did have access to Shadow Blade, you still wouldn't be able to use the Black Robes' Life Channel with your Shadow Blade attacks. That ability only applies to damage-dealing spells that involve an enemy failing a save, and the Shadow Blade spell doesn't involve any saving throws.

(You could potentially gain access to Shadow Blade by going Adept of the Red Robes instead, since it's an Illusion spell. But Red doesn't get Life Channel, though the two don't play nice together anyway as discussed above, so that may not be a problem if you're dead-set on getting Shadow Blade.)
.

Shadow blade is a second level illusion spell.. adept of black hobes give acces to this. See the description:

"Prerequisite: 4th Level, Initiate of High Sorcery (Nuitari) Feat

You chose the moon Nuitari to influence your magic, and your ambition and loyalty to the Order of the Black Robes has been recognized, granting you these benefits:

Ambitious Magic. You learn one 2nd-level spell of your choice. The 2nd-level spell must be from the Enchantment or Necromancy school of magic. You can cast this feat’s 2nd-level spell without a spell slot, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again. You can also cast this spell using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spell’s spellcasting ability is the one chosen when you gained the Initiate of High Sorcery feat."