Evil with Telepathy?

[SociopathFriend]

Simple enough question.

I have the Telepathy feat.
I am Lawful Evil in the, "I fully intend to make others suffer unless they give me reason not to" variety.
I am in the Curse of Strahd campaign.



Do you have any suggestions or ideas for committing dark and depraved acts specifically regarding Telepathy?

As an example:
I've already told children to seek out and play with sharp knives and even left some daggers around for them to find
I already plan on finding a husband and wife and zapping one or the other with the thought of, "They've been unfaithful to you"
And I plan on finding someone I do not like but cannot attack and 'spam pinging' their mind with the same noise unending

[Ihsan997]

You could always interrupt their conversations with others. Beam distracting words into their mind when someone else is talking so they miss the important part and then answer in awkward and embarrassing ways.

[Mastikator]

AFAIK telepathy allows you to communicate while hidden without revealing your position, even to someone you are hidden from. In other words: intimidate, threaten, coerce.

[Brookshw]

Getting really annoying songs stuck in people's heads.

Sounds like you're going evil for the lulz, is there a goal you're trying to accomplish?

[Elenian]

Your examples seem pretty strongly chaotic to me - are you looking for specifically *lawful* evil telepathy, or will any evil do?

Impersonating someone's deity in order to get them to do what you want seems like a pretty broadly applicable and dubiously moral technique.

[Ihsan997]

Getting really annoying songs stuck in people's heads.

Anybody else remember “It’s the End of the World as We Know It”?

[Gignere]

Simple enough question.

I have the Telepathy feat.
I am Lawful Evil in the, "I fully intend to make others suffer unless they give me reason not to" variety.
I am in the Curse of Strahd campaign.



Do you have any suggestions or ideas for committing dark and depraved acts specifically regarding Telepathy?

As an example:
I've already told children to seek out and play with sharp knives and even left some daggers around for them to find
I already plan on finding a husband and wife and zapping one or the other with the thought of, "They've been unfaithful to you"
And I plan on finding someone I do not like but cannot attack and 'spam pinging' their mind with the same noise unending

This doesn’t sound lawful evil at all. Lawful evil characters don’t do things because they enjoy evil acts, they just don’t mind doing evil things as long as it follows their own personal code. Think very harsh punishments for minor infractions, like torturing someone because they stole something. Think harsh warlord ruling over a country with strict law and extreme punishment.

What you are proposing is more neutral evil or even chaotic evil, which is evil for your own satisfaction and not to further your own code or following some set of laws.

[Segev]

Does your mental "voice" not sound like your own voice, the way your DM is letting you play it?



Don't neglect the other feature of the feat: detect thoughts doesn't allow a save if you're just scanning surface thoughts. Eavesdrop on people's surface thoughts casually, listening for any incriminating or embarassing secrets. Then blackmail them, or telepathically tell those who will use that information to hurt or embarrass them.

You might also use it to learn people's fears or true reactions to things, and then later expose them to those things or expose their true feelings in some way. Or just force them to endure something they don't like but feel the need to pretend they do.

[SociopathFriend]

Your examples seem pretty strongly chaotic to me - are you looking for specifically *lawful* evil telepathy, or will any evil do?

Impersonating someone's deity in order to get them to do what you want seems like a pretty broadly applicable and dubiously moral technique.

My take:

A man walks down the road and sees a puppy. He kicks it- an evil act.
If he does it because he wants to- it is chaotic.
If he does it because he has to- it is lawful.

Lawful vs Chaotic to me is about whether you choose to bind your will to something- an oath, an ideal, etc. And this character has bound himself to force others to suffer- in just about any way he can. If what he personally wants at some point conflicts with acting maliciously towards others- he has to take the malicious option.



With that said:


Does your mental "voice" not sound like your own voice, the way your DM is letting you play it?


The DM ruled my mental voice sounds like me unless I were to take the Actor feat- which was something I was going to suggest down the road and am very surprised the DM volunteered on his own instead.

However if someone has never heard my character speak out loud- there's no way of matching up the voices.

[lall]

When you’re walking through a crowd (so they never hear you talk out loud), there’d be opportunities. “You will die in the next 30 days” would be messed up or hit them with any Vicious Mockery-type burn.

[sithlordnergal]

Heh, I had a similar character. I'd make trouble by pretending I'm a deity, or someone's conscious to try and persuade them to do stuff. I'd also spread false rumors to cause trouble between the NPCs, or deliberately give misinformation to different people. I was also playing a Chaotic Evil, Awakened Maple Leaf...so no-one ever suspected me.

Or I'd use detect thoughts to get surface level emotions, and toy with them. If they're concerned about something, use vague wording to make them more worried. If they're angry, egg them on.

[ProsecutorGodot]

My take:

A man walks down the road and sees a puppy. He kicks it- an evil act.
If he does it because he wants to- it is chaotic.
If he does it because he has to- it is lawful.

Lawful vs Chaotic to me is about whether you choose to bind your will to something- an oath, an ideal, etc. And this character has bound himself to force others to suffer- in just about any way he can. If what he personally wants at some point conflicts with acting maliciously towards others- he has to take the malicious option.
Having a compulsion to act in the most evil way possible given the chance isn't really "lawful" because there's no real reason for it.

In fact, given the reasoning, I'd be even more inclined to call it chaotic. He will, against his own wants or judgement, always act in the most malicious way possible. That's as "arbitrary" a reason as I can imagine, spurred by nothing but a compulsion to act on his "greed, hate or bloodlust". I suppose it doesn't really matter how its classified, but with your character having the potential to be in the same room as Strahd von Zarovich, one of the DND multiverses most loathsome examples of Lawful Evil behavior, your character will be pretty shallow in motivation in comparison.

On topic, as far as using the telepathic feat to mess with people, the detect thoughts portion is important. Ask leading questions to learn about peoples insecurities and fears and abuse those things to intimidate and coerce them into acting as you want. Have separate conversations with individuals where you convince them into believing you're talking complete nonsense to the others out loud and only telling them what your true intentions are. Make promises to someone and, as you walk away, go back on those words said aloud and listen for their breaking down at the realization of your deceptions.

[JackPhoenix]

I am Lawful Evil in the, "I fully intend to make others suffer unless they give me reason not to" variety.

That's not being LE, that's just being a petty anus. And living in Barovia is probably worse than having someone bother them, telepathically or not. Assuming you find someone who has a soul and cares at all in the first place.

[CTurbo]

I know it's off topic from what you asked, but your character is 100% chaotic evil. There is nothing lawful about any of those examples.

A chaotic evil character kicked the puppy because it wanted to and enjoyed doing it. He hates the puppy's very existence.
A lawful evil character didn't mind kicking the puppy, but only did it as a means to an end. He does not care about the puppy.
A neutral character doesn't really want to kick the puppy, but will if they get something out of it. He may feel a little guilty about the puppy, but won't lose any sleep over it.
A good character really doesn't want to kick the puppy, and would only do so as a last resort or if forced. He feels terrible about the puppy.



To answer the actual question, my favorite thing to do with telepathy is to be a Sorcerer and use subtle spell. A level of Bard or Magic Initiate gets you fun stuff like Vicious Mockery, Dissonant Whispers, Command, or Puppet. Mind Sliver and Silvery Barbs work well too. At 2nd level, Suggestion and Blindness/Deafness are a lot of fun to use with telepathy. All spells mentioned except for Suggestion only require the V component which Subtle Spell cancels. Suggestion requires some material components, but isn't too hard to pull off using unnoticed.

[SociopathFriend]

I know it's off topic from what you asked, but your character is 100% chaotic evil. There is nothing lawful about any of those examples.

There is nothing Lawful Good about giving a beggar money because he needs it- yet nobody would seriously argue a Lawful Good character is Chaotic for doing it. The character is Lawful Good because there is an ideal he chases- a framework to his goals- that rules what acts he commits.
My character is the same but inverted- I simply don't care to put the entire reasoning into a thread where it's not the point and it was a mistake to start to.






To answer the actual question, my favorite thing to do with telepathy is to be a Sorcerer and use subtle spell. A level of Bard or Magic Initiate gets you fun stuff like Vicious Mockery, Dissonant Whispers, Command, or Puppet. Mind Sliver and Silvery Barbs work well too. At 2nd level, Suggestion and Blindness/Deafness are a lot of fun to use with telepathy. All spells mentioned except for Suggestion only require the V component which Subtle Spell cancels. Suggestion requires some material components, but isn't too hard to pull off using unnoticed.

Hrm... well that's definitely Evil. Can't argue that.

I already went Monk and Rogue though.

Still a particularly nasty suggestion- which I approve of.

[ProsecutorGodot]

There is nothing Lawful Good about giving a beggar money because he needs it- yet nobody would seriously argue a Lawful Good character is Chaotic for doing it. The character is Lawful Good because there is an ideal he chases- a framework to his goals- that rules what acts he commits.
My character is the same but inverted- I simply don't care to put the entire reasoning into a thread where it's not the point and it was a mistake to start to.

The reason someone would be giving the money to a beggar could absolutely be lawful - many Paladin oaths in particular have tenants of helping those who cannot help themselves. Many societies view acts of charity as a moral obligation of those who are well off enough to spare, so it's lawful in that regard as well.

It's a small part of a larger goal. Not at all comparable to "they're evil for the sake of being evil." Which could have any justification at all. Why did he do A? Because it was the most evil thing he could think of. Why didn't he do A this time? Because he thought B was more evil. Well what's he doing now? Well, he's doing C now, not because he wants to mind you, but because it's the most evil.

But yes, whether the character is lawful or chaotic doesn't really matter on this case.

[Yakk]

L and C are ideals.

The ideal L society is one of rules and procedures and abstractions.
The ideal C society is one of feelings and personal relationships and situations.

A CE ogre doesn't act randomly. The ogre can be loyal to a bigger boss, and can have underlings that are loyal to it. Of course, this loyalty is personal, selfish and conditional (on threats etc).

A L person is loyal to the crown, a C person is loyal to the queen. Both can act similarly. If the queen dies, the C person would only feel obligated to the heir *out of personal respect* for either the queen or a previous bond with the heir. The L person would consider the legitimacy of the transition to the new monarch to determine if their loyalty transferred. If the queen conspired against the nation as a whole, the C person would see no conflict, while the L person would see the queen betraying the crown.

E doesn't mean psychotic. E means values their own personal well being ahead of everyone else's. Someone drops a wallet in a way that nobody else knows you have it and you pocket the money? Evil act. Someone drops a wallet in a way that nobody else knows you have it and you return it? Good act. Spend a bit of time trying to track down the owner, and then give up and keep the cash? Neutral. (all 3 acts are mild)

Torturing arbitrary people because it makes others suffer and you want to make others suffer is not just evil, it is usually a psychiatric problem (psychosis, compulsive disorders, sociopathy, etc). There is a big gap between "evil" and bat**** crazy.

Why your character's psychiatric problem demands you to do evil doesn't really matter on the L vs C axis; the psychiatric problem you control and you gave your character is controlling your character's actions. What matters more is what that psychatric problem - what you - compel the PC to do. And it is you who are making the PC do stuff; you control their motivations and their decision making process.

[Segev]

Honestly, it sounds like the character is inspired by "When You're Evil" by Voltaire.

[Mastikator]

It doesn't really matter what alignment you put on your character sheet. What matters is personality traits, ideals, bonds and flaws. Alignment is at best a short hand for, well, those. But since they're literally on your character sheet so just focus on them. A thing to note is that the ones you get from your background are just suggestions, you can alter them, or use suggestions from other backgrounds, or just invent something that is completely yours.

The character as described, I would not label it lawful evil, nor chaotic evil really. I would describe him as sadistic and malicious, they're definitely a bad person who deserves to be put down, fortunately they're already condemned to a hell called Barovia.

TLDR; alignment shalignment