SangoProduction
2023-04-20, 02:23 PM
Preamble: I wanted to make a build that replicated, as closely as possible, Pyke from League of Legends. Admittedly, inspired to do so by Falconshield's new song.
Weapon: Harpoon. Too bad a harpoon is an exotic weapon... but it is treated as a spear, if you aren't proficient. Still has the rope, which can be explicitly customized in length. (Which shouldn't need to be explicit, but you know how people can get.) The only difference is the grapple property, and losing 10 ft of range increment. (Which... is fair enough. A rope is hardly a light thing, even when it's perfectly spooled and not tangling up.)
Abilities: Gift of the Drowned Ones - Regenerates hp. (At such an incredible rate that you have to kill him 4-5 times to actually kill him.)
Bone Skewer - Either stabs an enemy, or launches his harpoon dag pulls an enemy towards him.
Ghostwater Dive - Enters stealth with move speed
Phantom Undertow - A damaging and stunning dash.
Death From Below - A dash AoE damage effect that executes.
So, to address them in order of how interested I am in them. (Don't worry, I'll wrap them up into a single build at the end.)
No, really, this isn't needed. Don't look!We got our weapon, so let's have it actually skewer people, using the lancer sphere.
Normally, impale requires a melee attack roll, but Ranged Impale lets it be used at range. While I would definitely say it can count as controlled using the trailing rope, I would not say that the spear is being "wielded" for the purpose of Ragdoll Swing. (Oh, they are battered for the duration, giving -2 to CMD, which will be useful for pulling them.)
... There is also nothing that inherently states that you can perform Drag or Reposition attempts using this rope, once impaled. But it does say that you can (and must) make strength checks against impaled creatures in order to move. So that's a pretty heft implication that you could pull them.
Terrifying Pierce lets you intimidate them on impale (as an immediate action). Reduces attack by -2, which also applies to CMB/CMD.
Maneuvers: Now, we need to deal with handling the combat maneuver: Pull. Which has next to no support in the base Pathfinder. Thankfully, it's grouped into Brute sphere, in Spheres of Might.
Obviously, you take Imp. and Great. Pull.
Then, in the Brute sphere, you take: Quick Force, to attempt it as a move action (since you probably attacked as a standard)
Dominos also gives a free trip attempt, even if the drag was performed as a free action.
War sphere: features the following talents:
Tactical Momentum: Spend 1 momentum for +1/2 CAM to CMB. Very poor bonus, unless you're a primary caster.
Strike: Rallies yourself for a spell point to use a combat manuever... against an opponent you threaten. Which isn't useful for what we're trying to do.
There's the issue
Mageknight has:
Mystic Maneuver, which does the maneuver as a swift action with bonus equal to 1/2 level. That is quite literally perfect.
Mystic Might: Size Change to large for +1 CMB, and strength for another +1. Not a perfect analogue for pyke.
Enchanted Touch Spend spell points for enhancement bonuses. Should be done by your actual weapon, honestly.
Raging Combatant: +4 to strength and Con. Quite perfect. Even gets that regen thing, effectively.
Penetrating Blow: spell point for touch attacks for the round. (Very useful, as Impale applies -2 to hit.)
With the addition of a CAM requirement, we are splitting between dex, strength, and CAM (and whatever Con we want). Not great. Let's get rid of Dex from that with Crushing Thrower from Equipment sphere.
... Oh my, and that lets you... hold up.
Hold on a minute there. The author's note says that the explicit intent is to let you use melee-only abilities with thrown attacks.
We can impale and just not worry about Drag at all. Neat.
Crushing Thrower from Equipment sphere gives us the ability to make thrown attacks count as melee, explicitly including for the purpose of melee-only abilities and feats, and for strength bonus, using 2-handed thrown weapons, and strength to hit.
Lancer Sphere gives us impale. If we hit at -2 to hit, we pull them to our reach.
So... I guess that's really all there is to say on that. I mean, Mageknight still has Penetrating Blow, which lets you target touch
Imbued Weapon lets us instead use a Long Spear with a rope, so that we have more versatility in where we pull them, but nothing about that really fits pyke. But still useful for doubling the range increment back to normal. And it does let you just use your casting ability modifier. Given that we don't care about rooting them, that works perfectly fine.
As a nice-to-have, you might want to consider the Sniper sphere. Or, since you are going to be using that standard action to attack one way or another...
Spell Attack (champion feat)
Would let talents with (strike) count as a special attack action, letting you impale with that strike.
Let's continue this in its own section.
Shapes:
Energy Strike - For the harpoon strikes
Energy Leap - For the dash
Explosive Orb - For the ultimate
Feats:
Spell Attack - For the harpoon strikes
Improved Energy Leap - for the ultimate
Types:
Drowning (because of course) - Basically only being able to move is one step below stunned. Spell point.
Numbing - -2 reflex for 1d4 rounds. no spell points. Great as a set up with Energy Strike
Disintegrate - Execute if it brings them below 0 hp. (Generally not worth considering in a real at-the-table game. But still.)
Note: Since we are probably going to take Mageknight, this means lower, and lower DC, even if we are fully primary statted. That's just what happens when you have half as much caster level.
In game, he just floats around a bit at lightning speed. But the fluff of the ability is that he dives under water to ambush his target. While on land.
Ok, well, there's two methods to do that, incorporeality, or earth glide. Burrow also works.
Which one would have the fewest opportunity costs?
Well, one level of Wraith gets you incorporeality.
In order to get Burrow (and swim, I guess), you'd need Eternal Transformation (Anthropomorphic, selecting traits from Elemental). Anthro so you retain arms for the spear. You should select the Water and Earth movements.
For the Earth Glide itself, you also need Elemental Purity (CL 7 minimum, aka level 14 without boosters), and then Improved Transformation in order to apply those to your transformation.
So, one level of Wraith it is. Possibly 2, so that you can possess water or earth, and "become" the associated elemental, giving you the related movements.
You may want to say that he can't move through walls, so incorporeality doesn't fit. But... he can. Sure, not with Dive, but with dash. So he does have that ability.
Phantom Undertow: Energy Leap, Drowning, Destructive Blast. See Destruction Sphere spoiler.
Death From Below: See Destruction Sphere spoiler. The only thing difficult to pull off is the execute. But not really, because you could take Disintegrate (as an advanced talent).
Gift of the Drowned Ones: This is so trivial, I'll just say "Life sphere." Take your pick. I don't even care.
Total recommended Talents: 4 destruction (+1 advanced) (+2 feats)
1 equipment
1 lancer
At only 6-7 talents, that's incredibly achievable at an early level, even without dipping Conscript and Incanter
It takes 4 levels of Mageknight to accomplish all 3 recommended Mystic Combats, though you can reduce that by 2 levels per feat you spend (to a minimum of 2 levels)
1 or two levels of Wraith gets the Ghostwater Dive.
Martial Mageknight gives you access to a martial tradition, which allows for the two martial talents mentioned, plus 1 discipline (probably picking up harpoon proficiency, if your DM's anal about modifying weapons as written), and 1 other "thematic" talent.
So... let's see, Wraith 2 / MK 2 Human has 3 feats, and 3 magic talents +4 martial talents, +1 choice of magic or martial talent.
This nabs you all the recommended feats, features and talents, with some martials left over.
If you desperately want that regeneration, take Incanter 1, in place of the second Wraith level to grab Life sphere (and any drawbacks you wish.
In Conclusion
Neat, so Pyke can be replicated, well enough, in just 4 levels.
Well, That took a fair few hours to do 4 levels of content. lol
Weapon: Harpoon. Too bad a harpoon is an exotic weapon... but it is treated as a spear, if you aren't proficient. Still has the rope, which can be explicitly customized in length. (Which shouldn't need to be explicit, but you know how people can get.) The only difference is the grapple property, and losing 10 ft of range increment. (Which... is fair enough. A rope is hardly a light thing, even when it's perfectly spooled and not tangling up.)
Abilities: Gift of the Drowned Ones - Regenerates hp. (At such an incredible rate that you have to kill him 4-5 times to actually kill him.)
Bone Skewer - Either stabs an enemy, or launches his harpoon dag pulls an enemy towards him.
Ghostwater Dive - Enters stealth with move speed
Phantom Undertow - A damaging and stunning dash.
Death From Below - A dash AoE damage effect that executes.
So, to address them in order of how interested I am in them. (Don't worry, I'll wrap them up into a single build at the end.)
No, really, this isn't needed. Don't look!We got our weapon, so let's have it actually skewer people, using the lancer sphere.
Normally, impale requires a melee attack roll, but Ranged Impale lets it be used at range. While I would definitely say it can count as controlled using the trailing rope, I would not say that the spear is being "wielded" for the purpose of Ragdoll Swing. (Oh, they are battered for the duration, giving -2 to CMD, which will be useful for pulling them.)
... There is also nothing that inherently states that you can perform Drag or Reposition attempts using this rope, once impaled. But it does say that you can (and must) make strength checks against impaled creatures in order to move. So that's a pretty heft implication that you could pull them.
Terrifying Pierce lets you intimidate them on impale (as an immediate action). Reduces attack by -2, which also applies to CMB/CMD.
Maneuvers: Now, we need to deal with handling the combat maneuver: Pull. Which has next to no support in the base Pathfinder. Thankfully, it's grouped into Brute sphere, in Spheres of Might.
Obviously, you take Imp. and Great. Pull.
Then, in the Brute sphere, you take: Quick Force, to attempt it as a move action (since you probably attacked as a standard)
Dominos also gives a free trip attempt, even if the drag was performed as a free action.
War sphere: features the following talents:
Tactical Momentum: Spend 1 momentum for +1/2 CAM to CMB. Very poor bonus, unless you're a primary caster.
Strike: Rallies yourself for a spell point to use a combat manuever... against an opponent you threaten. Which isn't useful for what we're trying to do.
There's the issue
Mageknight has:
Mystic Maneuver, which does the maneuver as a swift action with bonus equal to 1/2 level. That is quite literally perfect.
Mystic Might: Size Change to large for +1 CMB, and strength for another +1. Not a perfect analogue for pyke.
Enchanted Touch Spend spell points for enhancement bonuses. Should be done by your actual weapon, honestly.
Raging Combatant: +4 to strength and Con. Quite perfect. Even gets that regen thing, effectively.
Penetrating Blow: spell point for touch attacks for the round. (Very useful, as Impale applies -2 to hit.)
With the addition of a CAM requirement, we are splitting between dex, strength, and CAM (and whatever Con we want). Not great. Let's get rid of Dex from that with Crushing Thrower from Equipment sphere.
... Oh my, and that lets you... hold up.
Hold on a minute there. The author's note says that the explicit intent is to let you use melee-only abilities with thrown attacks.
We can impale and just not worry about Drag at all. Neat.
Crushing Thrower from Equipment sphere gives us the ability to make thrown attacks count as melee, explicitly including for the purpose of melee-only abilities and feats, and for strength bonus, using 2-handed thrown weapons, and strength to hit.
Lancer Sphere gives us impale. If we hit at -2 to hit, we pull them to our reach.
So... I guess that's really all there is to say on that. I mean, Mageknight still has Penetrating Blow, which lets you target touch
Imbued Weapon lets us instead use a Long Spear with a rope, so that we have more versatility in where we pull them, but nothing about that really fits pyke. But still useful for doubling the range increment back to normal. And it does let you just use your casting ability modifier. Given that we don't care about rooting them, that works perfectly fine.
As a nice-to-have, you might want to consider the Sniper sphere. Or, since you are going to be using that standard action to attack one way or another...
Spell Attack (champion feat)
Would let talents with (strike) count as a special attack action, letting you impale with that strike.
Let's continue this in its own section.
Shapes:
Energy Strike - For the harpoon strikes
Energy Leap - For the dash
Explosive Orb - For the ultimate
Feats:
Spell Attack - For the harpoon strikes
Improved Energy Leap - for the ultimate
Types:
Drowning (because of course) - Basically only being able to move is one step below stunned. Spell point.
Numbing - -2 reflex for 1d4 rounds. no spell points. Great as a set up with Energy Strike
Disintegrate - Execute if it brings them below 0 hp. (Generally not worth considering in a real at-the-table game. But still.)
Note: Since we are probably going to take Mageknight, this means lower, and lower DC, even if we are fully primary statted. That's just what happens when you have half as much caster level.
In game, he just floats around a bit at lightning speed. But the fluff of the ability is that he dives under water to ambush his target. While on land.
Ok, well, there's two methods to do that, incorporeality, or earth glide. Burrow also works.
Which one would have the fewest opportunity costs?
Well, one level of Wraith gets you incorporeality.
In order to get Burrow (and swim, I guess), you'd need Eternal Transformation (Anthropomorphic, selecting traits from Elemental). Anthro so you retain arms for the spear. You should select the Water and Earth movements.
For the Earth Glide itself, you also need Elemental Purity (CL 7 minimum, aka level 14 without boosters), and then Improved Transformation in order to apply those to your transformation.
So, one level of Wraith it is. Possibly 2, so that you can possess water or earth, and "become" the associated elemental, giving you the related movements.
You may want to say that he can't move through walls, so incorporeality doesn't fit. But... he can. Sure, not with Dive, but with dash. So he does have that ability.
Phantom Undertow: Energy Leap, Drowning, Destructive Blast. See Destruction Sphere spoiler.
Death From Below: See Destruction Sphere spoiler. The only thing difficult to pull off is the execute. But not really, because you could take Disintegrate (as an advanced talent).
Gift of the Drowned Ones: This is so trivial, I'll just say "Life sphere." Take your pick. I don't even care.
Total recommended Talents: 4 destruction (+1 advanced) (+2 feats)
1 equipment
1 lancer
At only 6-7 talents, that's incredibly achievable at an early level, even without dipping Conscript and Incanter
It takes 4 levels of Mageknight to accomplish all 3 recommended Mystic Combats, though you can reduce that by 2 levels per feat you spend (to a minimum of 2 levels)
1 or two levels of Wraith gets the Ghostwater Dive.
Martial Mageknight gives you access to a martial tradition, which allows for the two martial talents mentioned, plus 1 discipline (probably picking up harpoon proficiency, if your DM's anal about modifying weapons as written), and 1 other "thematic" talent.
So... let's see, Wraith 2 / MK 2 Human has 3 feats, and 3 magic talents +4 martial talents, +1 choice of magic or martial talent.
This nabs you all the recommended feats, features and talents, with some martials left over.
If you desperately want that regeneration, take Incanter 1, in place of the second Wraith level to grab Life sphere (and any drawbacks you wish.
In Conclusion
Neat, so Pyke can be replicated, well enough, in just 4 levels.
Well, That took a fair few hours to do 4 levels of content. lol