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Fixer
2007-12-05, 09:23 AM
Ok, what can you substitute for Favored Enemy on a Ranger? My wife doesn't want the favored enemy part and I am having a heck of a time finding something decent to replace it with.

Kizara
2007-12-05, 09:28 AM
Replace it with Favored Terrain. The actual original mechanics for which were originally presented in the 3.0 Manual of the Planes (good book btw), but basically.

1) Take favored enemy.
2) Rename it favored terrain.
3) Choose a type of terrain (where you currently live would be the obvious choice) and then gain the standard fav. enemy bonuses there.

Is this better then favored enemy? It's situational, but generally yes.
Does this matter? No, cause ranger isn't that good in the first place.

Shishnarfne
2007-12-05, 09:35 AM
See also Horizon Walker in the DMG for favored terrains... I'd limit the planar ones for later, if at all, if you choose that route.

Fixer
2007-12-06, 09:04 AM
That is it? Nowhere in any of the other books are there substitution levels or alternate abilities for Favored Enemy?

That bites.

playswithfire
2007-12-06, 09:41 AM
This wouldn't technically be an official variant, but if a barbarian can do this (d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm)):

Gain
Favored enemy (as ranger); archery combat style, improved archery combat style, and archery combat style mastery (as ranger).

Lose
Rage, greater rage, indomitable will, tireless rage, mighty rage.

I would assume it could be done in the reverse, making the ranger more like a barbarian, though losing the combat style features may be too high a price to pay, but maybe the DM would allow for a partial swap.

Fixer
2007-12-06, 09:44 AM
This wouldn't technically be an official variant, but if a barbarian can do this (d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm)):

Gain
Favored enemy (as ranger); archery combat style, improved archery combat style, and archery combat style mastery (as ranger).

Lose
Rage, greater rage, indomitable will, tireless rage, mighty rage.

I would assume it could be done in the reverse, making the ranger more like a barbarian, though losing the combat style features may be too high a price to pay, but maybe the DM would allow for a partial swap.

Actually, her character already did the swap for the combat style/improved combat style/combat style mastery for wild shape (which, using the variant from PHBII, she traded for Shapechange). She REALLY wanted the shapechange ability. Not as fond of the Favored Enemy. So far the terrain variant seems the only option.

playswithfire
2007-12-06, 09:48 AM
scrolling further down that page, there's the Paladin variant that does this

Gain
Favored enemy (as ranger; may only select aberrations, dragons, giants, monstrous humanoids, evil outsiders, or undead).

Lose
Lay on hands, turn undead, remove disease.

So, again, reverse that (and possibly make the paladin abilities Wisdom based, maybe dropping one of the three in exchange) and have a more in touch with the divine ranger, though the terrain option isn't too bad either

its_all_ogre
2007-12-06, 09:54 AM
the more simple one is to add a feat at levels 1 5 10 15 10.
may not be what is wanted though, does lack that special something, but there you go!

Fixer
2007-12-06, 09:54 AM
Yeah. Her character concept is that of a gay male Krynnian minotaur who fell in love with a sailor (didn't say what he was) but he left him heartbroken and now he's very moody. He is a hunter (specializing in dungeons) and prefers to hunt in animal form.

Doesn't strike me as the divine type. I appreciate the effort (and I hope someone will appreciate this one day when this comes up in a Google search, which is what I've been doing for the past two days) but this is one variant that I don't think she'll go with (as twinky as it is).

Person_Man
2007-12-06, 10:09 AM
You might want to consider giving her Skirmish progression instead of Favored Enemy. The rumor is that Rangers will be getting Skirmish in 4th ed anyway.

Fixer
2007-12-06, 10:14 AM
You might want to consider giving her Skirmish progression instead of Favored Enemy. The rumor is that Rangers will be getting Skirmish in 4th ed anyway.
I wouldn't mind that, but since that isn't documented anywhere as a legitimate exchange of abilities anywhere I have seen I would have to get committee approval for it. So far no one has had to do that. That would be my final option, but thank you.

playswithfire
2007-12-06, 10:18 AM
Yeah. Her character concept is that of a gay male Krynnian minotaur who fell in love with a sailor (didn't say what he was) but he left him heartbroken and now he's very moody. He is a hunter (specializing in dungeons) and prefers to hunt in animal form.

Doesn't strike me as the divine type. I appreciate the effort (and I hope someone will appreciate this one day when this comes up in a Google search, which is what I've been doing for the past two days) but this is one variant that I don't think she'll go with (as twinky as it is).

There's certainly comedic potential (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0219.html)in the lay on hands ability, but the extra divinity doesn't quite fit the character. A trimmed down version of the barbarian swap might work. Gain rage 1 more time per day every time you gain a favored enemy, but never greater rage, indomitable will or mighty rage. Or the skirmish damage sounds good, depending on how the character fights

Fixer
2007-12-06, 10:25 AM
There's certainly comedic potential (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0219.html)in the lay on hands ability, but the extra divinity doesn't quite fit the character. A trimmed down version of the barbarian swap might work. Gain rage 1 more time per day every time you gain a favored enemy, but never greater rage, indomitable will or mighty rage. Or the skirmish damage sounds good, depending on how the character fights
From my understanding of the character (starting at level 1) her combat tactics will be as follows (and probably remain the same until she can shapechage into larger and more dangerous creatures):
Shapechange into Predator Form. Bite things until they stop moving.
Against flying things, change back into minotaur form and shoot with bow and arrows.

Here is the concept. (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dch332f9_17fzv7pg) No real details in it yet, just the crunchy bits she lets me do. She will fill in the details later.

prufock
2007-12-06, 10:31 AM
Are you asking for official variants, or just suggestions? You could always advance the animal companion progression to match the druid's.

Fixer
2007-12-06, 10:54 AM
Official variants do not require committee approval, so those are what I am hoping for.

Unofficial suggestions are welcome as well, especially if there's a really good idea involved.

TempusCCK
2007-12-06, 11:01 AM
I just set up a Ranger for one of my players that involved trading the Combat Styles, and favored enemies for a couple of extra feats and a half-assed Sneak attack progression, making, in essense, a half-fighter, half-rogue wilderness survivor hybrid. I'm really looking forward to trying it out.

Alex12
2007-12-06, 11:04 AM
In Masters of the Wild, there's a variant that lets you apply the bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks against the favored enemy rather than damage, Bluff, and Sense Motive checks. Using this also lets you act as if you had the Dodge feat against the favored enemy. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?

Fixer
2007-12-06, 11:15 AM
Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?
Yes, thank you. :)

prufock
2007-12-06, 12:41 PM
I noticed that you're using the shapechanger variant, making my suggestion of improved animal companion progression pointless, since you have to give up the companion. That said, shouldn't she be giving up the ranger's animal companion as well?

Is there a particular reason she wants to go ranger/warshaper rather than druid/warshaper?

Fixer
2007-12-06, 12:45 PM
I noticed that you're using the shapechanger variant, making my suggestion of improved animal companion progression pointless, since you have to give up the companion. That said, shouldn't she be giving up the ranger's animal companion as well?

Is there a particular reason she wants to go ranger/warshaper rather than druid/warshaper?
None of us were allowed to choose our initial race/class. That was done by committee to force everyone to try something new. My wife was elected the Krynnian Minotaur Ranger while I was voted the Dwarf Rogue (I had never played a dwarf before). We also have a Warforged Paladin, Elan Druid, Gnome Bard, and Halfling Wizard.

After all, having Player X play the 13th version of "Gary the Fighter/Rogue" just because he's comfortable with it gets boring.

prufock
2007-12-06, 12:57 PM
None of us were allowed to choose our initial race/class. That was done by committee to force everyone to try something new. My wife was elected the Krynnian Minotaur Ranger while I was voted the Dwarf Rogue (I had never played a dwarf before). We also have a Warforged Paladin, Elan Druid, Gnome Bard, and Halfling Wizard.

After all, having Player X play the 13th version of "Gary the Fighter/Rogue" just because he's comfortable with it gets boring.

Ah, that's cool. I haven't run into that problem yet. I tend to play with varied groups of players, and the players like to experiment with new things. Plus we switch up games between D&D, Star Wars, and Mutants and Masterminds. I think you've got a good concept, though, forcing people into unusual roles. Assigning (either randomly, by DM fiat, or by committee) is something I'd actually like to try at some point. Maybe the next time I'm the GM.

In any case, I do think she should probably drop the ranger's animal companion, since shapechange requires druids to drop the animal companion along with wildshape.

Fixer
2007-12-06, 01:00 PM
In any case, I do think she should probably drop the ranger's animal companion, since shapechange requires druids to drop the animal companion along with wildshape.
Done. I forgot about that. Although... ranger animal companions aren't as powerful as druid animal companions so she's getting a little something extra there. I should probably yank the fast movement as well to try to balance.

prufock
2007-12-06, 01:04 PM
Done. I forgot about that. Although... ranger animal companions aren't as powerful as druid animal companions so she's getting a little something extra there. I should probably yank the fast movement as well to try to balance.

Well, shapechanging will probably give her better speed anyway, so she won't be losing much. But hey, rangers are weak compared to druids anyway, so a tiny power boost won't be terribly unbalancing.

JaxGaret
2007-12-06, 06:39 PM
Well, shapechanging will probably give her better speed anyway, so she won't be losing much. But hey, rangers are weak compared to druids anyway, so a tiny power boost won't be terribly unbalancing.

QFT.

There is a variant in Dragon 324 that essentially trades the Favored Enemy for a Smite Evil progression. You could change it to Smite Law.

There's also the Urban Ranger from UA that gets Favored Enemy Organization in its place. You could make it Favored Enemy (Sailors), due to his... familiarity with them. :smallwink: