Another Revised Mountain Giant

[Metastachydium]

Okay, so this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?655890-3-5-Giant-character-help-rules-items) reminded me of these poor fellers and that the previous fix circulating here downsized them to Gargantuan (with Powerful Build (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?649410-Mountain-Giant-revised-PEACH), but still). So I made a Colossal fix myself. Like kinem before, I tried to stick close to the original's abilities, which includes sticking with the thing using a "mountain giant club", which I elected to turn into an actual exotic weapon (one-handed, if anyone wondered), however. The one major change (besides giving the giant a DR which it should have, frankly, had to begin with) is that I ditched the odd Summon Giants thing and slotted in… Well, something more unusual, but also, I believe, more fitting. Now, here we go:

Mountain Giant
A mountain giant resembles a titanic hill giant, standing more than 80 feet tall and weighing as much as 170 tons. Thick, jet-black hair frames a face with bulbous features and a skin tone that can be any shade from tan to reddish brown. The typical mountain giant wears only minimal clothing apart from its armour —often just a breechcloth and a shirt made of rough animal hide that barely covers a large
pot belly.

Mountain giants speak Giant and sometimes Common, Dwarven or Orc.

Size/Type: Colossal Giant [Earth]
Hit Dice: 30d8+360 (495 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 80 feet (8 squares), climb 40 feet
Armor Class: 36 (-8 size, +6 stone plate, +3 hide shield, +25 natural), touch 5, flat-footed 36
Base Attack/Grapple: +22/+57
Attack: +1 mountain giant club +34 melee (4d10+20, 19–20/×3) or slam +33 melee (2d6+19) or +1 warsling +34 ranged (6d6+20, ×4) or rock +34 ranged (18d6+19)
Full Attack: +1 mountain giant club +34/+29/+24/+19 melee (4d10+20, 19–20/×3) or 2 slams +33 melee (2d6+19) or +1 warsling +34 ranged (6d6+20, ×4) or rock +34 ranged (18d6+19)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./30 ft.
Special Attacks: Crush, fling, maneuvers, rock throwing, trample 4d8+19
Special Qualities: DR 20/–, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, rock catching, scent
Saves: Fort +29, Ref +16, Will +22
Abilities: Str 49, Dex 10, Con 35, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 14
Skills: Climb +27, Jump +44, Listen +8, Spot +8, Survival +8
Feats: Brutal Throw, Cleave, EnduranceB, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (mountain giant club), Improved GrappleB, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Parrying Shield, Power Attack, Steadfast Determination
Epic Feats: Epic Reflexes, Legendary Leaper
Environment: Temperate or cold mountains
Organization: Solitary or family (2 plus 1-3 noncombatants)
Challenge Rating: 17
Alignment: Usually chaotic (any)
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: –

Combat
Mountain giants attack in a straight-forward manner, stepping forth to overrun opponents whenever possible. They also enjoy picking up foes and hurling them against a mountainside. Many an armed foe has foiled a mountain giant's initial grab attempt only to be scooped up by the monster's other hand.

In melee, mountain giants use their height to smash their clubs down on the heads of their foes. Against groups of smaller foes, mountain giants prefer their trample or crush attacks.

Crush (Ex)
A mountain giant that jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 44) or be pinned, automatically taking 20d6+28 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes half the indicated crush damage each round.


Fling (Ex)
A mountain giant that successfully grapples a foe two or more size categories smaller than itself can hurl the creature as a standard action. A flung creature travels up to 120 feet and takes 12d6 points of damage. A creature that is flung off a mountain take this amount of damage or the appropriate falling damage, whichever is greater. The giant also can throw the flung creature as though it were a boulder. In this case, the flung creature takes 12d6+19 points of damage, and any opponent it strikes takes 4d8+19 points of damage.

Maneuvers (Ex)
A mountain giant can use the Ancient Mountain Hammer, Colossus Strike, Earthstrike Quake and Irresistible Mountain Strike maneuvers as a 20th level warblade. The effect of these maneuvers applies to all thrown weapon attacks made by a mountain giant.

Rock Catching (Ex)
A giant of at least Huge size can catch Small, Medium-size, Large, or Huge rocks (or projectiles of similar shape). A Colossal giant can catch rocks of up to Colossal size. Once per round, a giant that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC to catch a rock is based on the rock's size (see table below). If the projectile has a bonus on attack rolls because of magic, the DC increases by that amount. The giant must be ready for and aware of the attack.

Rock Size DC
Small 10
Medium15
Large 20
Huge 25
Gargantuan 30
Colossal 35

Rock Throwing (Ex)
An adult giant is an accomplished rock thrower, so it receives a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when throwing rocks. A giant of at least Huge size can hurl rocks weighing 60 to 80 pounds each (Medium-size objects) up to five range increments. A Colossal giant can hurl rocks weighing 160 to 200 pounds (Huge objects).

Trample (Ex)
A succesful DC 44 Reflex save halves damage.

Skills
Mountain giants have a +8 racial bonus on Spot and Survival checks. They also have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. Due to its immense strength, a mountain giant suffers no armour check penalty on skill checks it makes.


♣

Changelog:
–Added warsling to available weapons;
–default gear includes magical manufactured weapons by default;
–maneuvers apply to thrown weapon attacks;
–Rock Catching DCs are lowered by 5 points;
–added Endurance (for Steadfast D.) and Improved Grapple (for ease of Flinging) as bonus feats;
–slotted Parrying Shield in as a regular feat;
–removed all ACP ever.

–Increased Crush damage, because seriously: by RAW, it could deal more by accidentally faceplanting on someone.

More might follow. Stay tuned.

[Silva Stormrage]

While I appreciate giving them maneuvers and other such abilities I feel like this monster just flat out loses against flying enemies and spellcasters in particular. It just isn't a CR 17 threat against spellcasters at that level.

Weaknesses I notice:

Poor Will Save
No real ranged option
No magical option (Can't hit incorporeal enemies)
Lack of options in combat beyond "Hit Things"


Now those would be fine on a lower CR monster but CR 17? Any mid op party is going to shred it regardless of how scary it is in melee. Some random spitball ideas if you want to keep it at CR 17.


Give it some way to ground fliers. Some kind of "Pull to earth" (SU) ability that drags flying enemies to the ground dealing damage/knocking them prone if they fail a STR check or something
Let them use their maneuvers with their thrown rocks.
Possibly let them generate boulders more easily so they always have a ranged weapon
Some sort of earth SLAs like stoneshape, xorn movement, wall of stone, etc.
Give it some kind of earth glide ability to prevent it from just being CC'ed into the ground
Give it the steadfast determination feat so it can add it's con mod to will saves
Give it the ability to either make a stone weapon it's holding magical or similar

[Yakk]

The rock catching DCs at the high end are short hand for "no" in this stat block. I assume because it is copy/pasted from elsewhere?

Some kind of "I'm the size of a hill, spells that target creatures don't really work well" feature would make sense.

Ancient Mountain Hammer (single attack for +12d6 damage, ignore hardness and DR)
Colossus Strike (single attack for +6d6 damage, fort save or go flying 1d4 squares)
Earthstrike Quake (20' radius knock prone as an action. Can also disrupt spellcasting)
Irresistible Mountain Strike (+4d6 damage and save against losing their standard action)

I get the draw of referring to other texts, but these are all pretty lame. Most of them are traps.

I'd make "knock flying and prone" be a built-in feature. Any creature the mountain giant hits that is huge or smaller must make a fort save or be knocked prone and be pushed 2d4*10 feet.

Ignoring hardness and DR? Just make it built-in. It is a mountain.

That leaves IMS and EQ.

I'd give the giant the ability to move at half or even full speed while making a full attack. Call it "long legs" or whatever.

Let it give up 1 attack in exchange for a ground stomp each turn.

For IMS, give it a 17-20/x2 crit range, and have the "be dazed and lose your standard action" thing happen on a crit. That'll happen often enough.

As for any damage, you are in control of it. Set the damage where you want, you don't need Warblade maneuvers to do it.

...

For magic resistance, we could give it lice. Those lice are small sized creatures. And some ability to redirect magic to the lice.

[Metastachydium]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! It's much appreciated.


While I appreciate giving them maneuvers and other such abilities I feel like this monster just flat out loses against flying enemies and spellcasters in particular. It just isn't a CR 17 threat against spellcasters at that level.

[Sad tarrasque vocalizations.] That's kind of something the CR system has issue modelling appropriately (I mean the tarrasque itself only really warrants a 17 (20? Come on!) if we flat out ignore the Wish-slinging that comes online for Warlocks at level 12), but yeah, I may have to adjust it even further down. Can you believe that the MM2 (because of course) official variant had a listed CR of 26 while being worse in every way I can imagine?


Weaknesses I notice:
[LIST]
Poor Will Save

Luckily, good feat choices can handle that as you pointed out below (above?).


No real ranged option

Possibly let them generate boulders more easily so they always have a ranged weapon

I mean, it lives in the mountains and has Ancient Mountain Hammer. If it ever runs out, it can just make more. But yeah, I think I'll give it a warsling.


No magical option (Can't hit incorporeal enemies)

Fair. At this level, I might as well make its weapons magical, I suppose.


Lack of options in combat beyond "Hit Things"

This is one thing I like about the idiotic simplicity of this critter, actually. It just bruises, but does it bruise!


Let them use their maneuvers with their thrown rocks.

Why not all thrown ****? Good idea, I'll do that.


Some sort of earth SLAs like stoneshape, xorn movement, wall of stone, etc.
Give it some kind of earth glide ability to prevent it from just being CC'ed into the ground


I'm not sure. I get what you mean, but I'd like to keep it as Ex as possible.


The rock catching DCs at the high end are short hand for "no" in this stat block. I assume because it is copy/pasted from elsewhere?

Like I said, I was trying to stick close to the original, official statblock from MM2. It's right from there, naturally.


Ancient Mountain Hammer (single attack for +12d6 damage, ignore hardness and DR)
Colossus Strike (single attack for +6d6 damage, fort save or go flying 1d4 squares)
Earthstrike Quake (20' radius knock prone as an action. Can also disrupt spellcasting)
Irresistible Mountain Strike (+4d6 damage and save against losing their standard action)


Taking away enemy actions always has some utility and "sorry, no DR/hardness for you" has the same going for it. The other two just felt way too thematic to not put them there.


I'd make "knock flying and prone" be a built-in feature. Any creature the mountain giant hits that is huge or smaller must make a fort save or be knocked prone and be pushed 2d4*10 feet.

I mean, CS is a tad redundant, given Fling is there, see what I mean? (But note to self: Fling can use some more love.)


As for any damage, you are in control of it. Set the damage where you want, you don't need Warblade maneuvers to do it.

I've been doing that, big time with everything else, believe me. Its offical club back in MM2 used to deal 4d8; its rocks? The same. 4d8 (I mean, it's literally in the text: 160 to 200 pound rocks – we have rules for this, WotC!). The Crush attack? 2. d. ****in'. 6. And please don't be too hard on the poor maneuvers either. What they replace was the mighty ability of having a 75% (!) chance to fail summoning what might amount to 2 ogres if succesful, once a day.


...

For magic resistance, we could give it lice. Those lice are small sized creatures. And some ability to redirect magic to the lice.

…
…
…
You are a wicked, wicked man.

[Metastachydium]

For magic resistance, we could give it lice. Those lice are small sized creatures. And some ability to redirect magic to the lice.

My. I can't believe I'm doing this, but… Well, here you go:

Mountain Louse
Mountain lice are sizable, mid-brown or gray insects with thick legs and a bloated abdomen. These chewing lice live on (and off) massive mountain-dwelling creatures such as rocs and mountain giants, hiding among hair, feathers or fur and feeding on dead skin or debris.

Size/Type: Small Vermin
Hit Dice: 1d8+3 (7 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 15 feet (3 squares), climb 15 feet
Armor Class: 13 (+1 size, +2 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-6
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d3-2)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d3-2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: –
Special Qualities: Bond, bound dodging, darkvision 60 ft., frenzy of fear, vermin traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +3
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 17, Int –, Wis 12, Cha 1
Skills: Climb +10
Feats: Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Any mountain
Organization: Solitary or crawl (7–304)
Challenge Rating:
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 1–3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: –

Combat
Mountain lice leave the fighting to their hosts, if bonded and if at all possible. Crawls that are not bonded might try to mob opponents of Large size or smaller to chase them away with bites.

Bond (Ex)
Mountain lice are rarely, if ever encountered alone. Instead, they tend to live bonded to a host that is at least Gargantuan in size. Mountain lice bond as a crawl (3d%+4 lice per host) and occupy the same space as their host. This imposesno penalties on the host or any of the lice.

Bound Dodging (Ex)
Mountain lice form a strong bond with their host, and one to their own benefit as well. Mountain lice bound to host always share the host's initiative count and the result of its Reflex saving throws. Bound mountain lice are never flat-footed unless their host is flat-footed as well.

Frenzy of Fear (Su)
Mountain lice are not truly parasitic, insofar as they confer a curious benefit to their host. Whenever their host encounters enemies that use magic, if the lice are aware of these foes, they begin frantically moving about all over the host's body, as if in panic. While the crawl is so frenzied, targeted spells and spell-like-abilities with the host as their target have a 30% chance of hitting a bonded mountain louse instead, so long as there are at least 7 lice alive and present on the host.

Skills
Mountain lice have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. Mountain lice use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb checks.