Best way to scale up for High Dex Char

[incog64]

I am a first level wood elf character and I have 20 dex (18+2) ultimately I will have a TWF build. What is the most effective way to use all my dex since I will be be past my studded leather soon with regards to dex bonus. I am leaning towards getting nightscale armour soon but I see a lot of talk about bracers of armour.

Thanks.

[RNightstalker]

Bracers of Armor go up to +8 for 64,000. That's essentially plate armor with unlimited max dex. There's an optional rule in Arms & Equipment Guide that lets you put armor enhancements up to a total bonus of +13. If you want to wear actual armor, Gnome Twistcloth has an unlimited dex bonus.

[Thunder999]

Bracers of Armour are your eventual best option, but not for a while, Celestial Armor is a +8 armour bonus (potentially improved to +10 if you increase the enhancement bonus, say with a Cleric's Magic Vestment) and +8 max dex and costs less than +5 bracers of armour. As a result you might actually wear it even if you have a +10 dex bonus simply because the +7 Bracers you'd need for better total AC are so much extra gold.
If you have positive wisdom there's always the consideration that Bracers of Armour work with a Monk's Belt.

[pabelfly]

To go another way, there's the Nimbleness enchant. It increases your armor's max dex bonus by 1 and reduces armor check penalty by 2. +1 Enchant, Magic Item Compendium.

[Anthrowhale]

You may enjoy the budget AC calculator (http://www.wdtaylor.net/calculator.html).

In terms of options, Mithril Chahar-Aina (Oriental Adventures), Mithril Dastana (Oriental Adventures), and a Mithril Chain Shirt with the Reinforced and Segmented properties from Dragon #358 gives an armor bonus of +7, zero armor check penalty, and a max dex bonus of +7.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Probably among the best of multiweapon fighter-type builds is the King of Smack. Look it up here (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1542). (Don't click the link for the original build; WotC closed down those boards years ago.)

Note that the build uses claws primarily, but they can also be used as secondary attacks while making full attacks with weapons not held in your hands, whether that be boot blades, braid blades, unarmed strikes, or others, as well as weapons held in any additional hands you may have (such as from being thri-kreen, installing a warforged mighty arms graft, or by binding the girallon arms soulmeld).

Going psywar means you rely heavily on Wis, so grabbing a level of monk or a monk's belt (and the Tashalatora feat) will give you a lot of bang for your Max Dex-less buck.

[Gruftzwerg]

Bracers of Armor go up to +8 for 64,000. That's essentially plate armor with unlimited max dex. There's an optional rule in Arms & Equipment Guide that lets you put armor enhancements up to a total bonus of +13. If you want to wear actual armor, Gnome Twistcloth has an unlimited dex bonus.

Sadly that rule sole allows for Armor Special abilities and not for the regular enhancement bonus armor can have. Still nice, but you can't get more armor class than +8 from it.

[incog64]

Everyone - Thanks for the feedback.

[Biggus]

A couple of other options:

If Dragon magazine content is available, in #358 (p.42) there's a nice cheap option for a small boost: segmented armor increases MDB by 1 for only 200-300GP.

In MIC (p.20) there's Millenial Chainmail which also has +8 MDB. It's a relic but you don't need the relic power to get the Dex bonus, and its base price is 8,150GP compared to 22,500GP for Celestial Armor.

[Eladrinblade]

I am a first level wood elf character and I have 20 dex (18+2) ultimately I will have a TWF build. What is the most effective way to use all my dex since I will be be past my studded leather soon with regards to dex bonus. I am leaning towards getting nightscale armour soon but I see a lot of talk about bracers of armour.

Thanks.

Depends on what your DM will allow. A feycraft Celestial Armor with the nimbleness enhancement added has +8 max dex with 0 acp. However, that's a ways off. A mithril chain shirt is only 1100gp or something, has +6 max dex. Items of mage armor and shield are probably the next best choice. It'll be a long time before bracers of armor pay off.

[Rebel7284]

What exactly is your planned built? There are very nifty things you can do with Dex besides just armor class. Shadow Blade comes to mind.

[incog64]

What exactly is your planned built? There are very nifty things you can do with Dex besides just armor class. Shadow Blade comes to mind.

See below for my leveling plan. I plan on being a speed based TWF.

Taking dips in Barbarian for, Pounce and Cloistered cleric for knowldege devotion and access to cleric wands.

Planar Ranger is the base class to get a celestial owl as a companion will be my "radar" and start my TWF.

We use flaws so I have bonus feats will use them primarily for shadow blade.

1 dip in blade dancer to double my speed.

10 levels of dervish.

Total 1 6 2 10 1
Level Barbarian Ranger Cloistered Cl. Dervish Blade Dance

1 Barbarian
2 Ranger
3 Cloistered Cleric
4 Ranger
5 Ranger
6 Ranger
7 Dervish
8 Dervish
9 Dervish
10 Blade Dancer
11 Ranger
12 Ranger
13 Cloister Cleric
14 -20 Dervish

[Anthrowhale]

Rage is incompatible with Dervish, so it's tempting to consolidate by just using a cloistered cleric with Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, and the War Domain for some deity with the shortsword as a favored weapon.

Ranger ACs are super fragile, so it's not clear to me they are worthwhile. For a more robust AC that is compatible with the build, consider Wild Cohort.

You might want to look into the Hit and Run fighter ACF since it combos well with high dex.

There is a Graft in Dragon #318 called the "Golden Dancing Pegleg" which grants mobility and spring attack.

[incog64]

Rage is incompatible with Dervish, so it's tempting to consolidate by just using a cloistered cleric with Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, and the War Domain for some deity with the shortsword as a favored weapon.

Ranger ACs are super fragile, so it's not clear to me they are worthwhile. For a more robust AC that is compatible with the build, consider Wild Cohort.

You might want to look into the Hit and Run fighter ACF since it combos well with high dex.

There is a Graft in Dragon #318 called the "Golden Dancing Pegleg" which grants mobility and spring attack.


Great point about rage but Spirit Totem Lion Barbarian gets pounce which is what the dip is for. Once I start dervishing, I am not that worried about rage.


I have Kelanen (war and travel) as my god and I get access to Knowledge through Cloistered Cleric. I will be using my ranger skill points to boost my knowledge checks.

I rolled an 18 dex, so I have 20 dex as a level one. With studded leather my ac is 17, first level. Not so bad.

The third level of dervish gives me spring attack as a bonus.

Shadow blade adds dex to my damage already.

I appreciate the feedback though. Any other thoughts>

[Anthrowhale]

Great point about rage but Spirit Totem Lion Barbarian gets pounce which is what the dip is for. Once I start dervishing, I am not that worried about rage.
Travel devotion is more flexible than pounce since a charge must be made in a straight line. Of course, you could also have both.

In either case, I'd be tempted to at least start out as a cloistered cleric so you can use all those skill points to elevate your knowledge checks and then benefit immediately from Knowledge Devotion and Weapon Focus.

One useful trick for later levels is that you can use the retraining rules to take 4 skill points from one skill and invest them in another even if they are cross class.


Shadow blade adds dex to my damage already.

Hit-and-run fighter adds a competence bonus equal to your dex bonus while shadow blade adds your dex modifier directly. They should be cumulative since they are different types.

[incog64]

Travel devotion is more flexible than pounce since a charge must be made in a straight line. Of course, you could also have both.

In either case, I'd be tempted to at least start out as a cloistered cleric so you can use all those skill points to elevate your knowledge checks and then benefit immediately from Knowledge Devotion and Weapon Focus.

One useful trick for later levels is that you can use the retraining rules to take 4 skill points from one skill and invest them in another even if they are cross class.

Hit-and-run fighter adds a competence bonus equal to your dex bonus while shadow blade adds your dex modifier directly. They should be cumulative since they are different types.

This build has both TD and Pounce. Pounce in Travel devotion out (swift action).

My DM believes barbarian is more of a lifestyle than a class. So if you want Barbarian you have to start as a Barbarian.

Definately will look in to retraining.

THanks for the feedback.

[Maat Mons]

The Revenant Blade PrC would mesh well with some of what you're aiming for.

[lylsyly]

Take a look at the Crafty Hunter Barbarian Variant in UA Or The SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarian) since are not concerned with Rage. Trade away your rage for a Favored Enemy.

[incog64]

The Revenant Blade PrC would mesh well with some of what you're aiming for.

Thanks for the feedback

[incog64]

The Revenant Blade PrC would mesh well with some of what you're aiming for.

Thanks for the feedback

[Anthrowhale]

This build has both TD and Pounce.
Ah, great. You'll be super-mobile.

Have you considered the Urban Companion ACF? At level 20, it might have 150hp (=3/4 of your hp) while the celestial owl will have only 4hp.

[incog64]

Ah, great. You'll be super-mobile.

Have you considered the Urban Companion ACF? At level 20, it might have 150hp (=3/4 of your hp) while the celestial owl will have only 4hp.

My thoughts on the celestial owl is that he will do my scouting. I am going make a magical item of speak with animals or give him something to speak (depending on cash) and since celestial owls have 3 intelligence, he should be able tell me everything that i need in regards to scouting. In my mind, I am like an apache helicopter and he is my radar.

[Anthrowhale]

My thoughts on the celestial owl is that he will do my scouting. I am going make a magical item of speak with animals or give him something to speak (depending on cash) and since celestial owls have 3 intelligence, he should be able tell me everything that i need in regards to scouting. In my mind, I am like an apache helicopter and he is my radar.

In your current build plan, the Urban Companion could be an owl starting with an intelligence of 7 as per the familiar progression. You also gain: natural armor+2, Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, and empathic link as per a familiar. Additionally, the owl can talk to other owls and you lose no xp as per a normal familiar. The only drawback I see is lack of darkvision due to the missing celestial template, which is probably addressable with a magic item.

[incog64]

In your current build plan, the Urban Companion could be an owl starting with an intelligence of 7 as per the familiar progression. You also gain: natural armor+2, Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, and empathic link as per a familiar. Additionally, the owl can talk to other owls and you lose no xp as per a normal familiar. The only drawback I see is lack of darkvision due to the missing celestial template, which is probably addressable with a magic item.

Very interesting. Thanks for the note. What book is this from?

[Anthrowhale]

Very interesting. Thanks for the note. What book is this from?

It's a cityscape web enhancement here (https://web.archive.org/web/20201112031718/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

My DM believes barbarian is more of a lifestyle than a class. So if you want Barbarian you have to start as a Barbarian....Maybe he should take some anger management classes?

[RNightstalker]

Doing Cloistered Cleric at first level will net a higher total of skill points as someone else mentioned. Also, since you have the Cleric class to gain spellcasting ability, there's a Champion of the Wild ACF for your ranger class that will net you another feat for giving up your ranger spellcasting. If you're concerned about AC, you might want to consider trading out Barbarian for Scout. There's a feat that will allow your ranger and scout levels to stack with regards to favored enemies and skirmishing, which will add to your AC.

[incog64]

It's a cityscape web enhancement here (https://web.archive.org/web/20201112031718/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a).

Thanks. It looks like a beefy familiar. Since it is an ACF, I think it still works with Planar Ranger. Thouhgts?

[incog64]

...Maybe he should take some anger management classes?

Lol, he is pretty chill though.