No equipment party build challenge

[CTurbo]

I've been thinking about how it would play out to have an entire party of characters that have/use almost no material things. Definitely no weapons or armor.

Originally I was thinking only clothes and coin pouch would be allowed, but that would leave no room for material components which would all but kill spellcasting so I concede the usual adventuring bag/pack that all characters would have. Just no weapons, armor, wands, staffs, etc...

Can you build a viable "good" party under these rules? Any book is fine.

As a bonus if you'd like you can use either one of these arrays

16,15,14,12,11,7

18,13,12,12,12,9

[Marcloure]

If you can use component pouch, most full casters would be fine skipping costly spells. If not even that is allowed, then monks, druids, and unarmed barbarians would probably dominate.

[CTurbo]

If you can use component pouch, most full casters would be fine skipping costly spells. If not even that is allowed, then monks, druids, and unarmed barbarians would probably dominate.

Agreed. My party will have a Druid, Monk, and Barb for sure.

Pretty much any of my groups all agree on one house rule about Sorcerers. They do not ever require any material components for spells. They would be a great pick for this.

[Willowhelm]

I've had a (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620645-No-Equipment-Build-Ideas) few (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620892-Help-building-playing-an-quot-Ordinary-quot-adventurer) threads (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629711-5e-(Party)-Throwdown-The-unremarkables) on this kind of thing before. They should serve as a starting point if you're looking for ideas.

[Psyren]

Are spellbooks allowed? Shields?

Assuming no to both:

- Shifter Beast Barbarian (Tank.)
- Small Thri-Kreen Soulknife Rogue (Skills, traps, ranged/melee). Autognome works fine here as well.
- Tortle Land/Stars Druid (Divine caster / controller)
- Lizardfolk Lore Bard (Arcane Caster / Face). Gem Dragonborn Sorcerer works here as well once you're able to get Dragon Hide*.

(For the Gem Dragonborn, you can either start off with Mage Armor and then drop it once you're able to pick up Dragon Hide, boosting Cha, or start as a Draconic sorcerer and then retrain to your subclass of choice with more spells.)

[CTurbo]

Goliath Beast Barbarian 18 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con. AC15. Unarmed Strikes count as magical at level 6.

Wood Elf Way of Mercy Monk 18 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Wis. AC17. Unarmed Strikes count as magical at level 6.

Goblin Moon Druid 14 Dex, 14 Con, 18 Wis. Unarmed Strikes count as magical at level 6.

Half-Elf Draconic Sorcerer 18 Cha, 16 Dex, 15 Con. AC16.

Tortle Diviner Wizard. 18 Int, 13 Con. AC17

[Kane0]

So we're probably looking at a monk, druid, martials with races that provide natural weapons and AC, possibly other casters that rely on spells with only V and S components.

[Rukelnikov]

I was thinking a Dex Bladelock with Improved Pact Weapon and Armor of Shadows, but that's maybe defeating the purpose of the exercise? Are those kind of features allowed? Or spells like Shadow Blade?

Btw, regarding spell components and stuff, I say it'd be more interesting if characters only have their clothes, period, there's still lots of spells without material components, but staples like AoA, Bless, Goodberry and Hex, will range from hard to almost imposible to pull off (petrified eye of a newt for Hex, good luck)

[Kane0]

Wow actually upon checking there is actually quite a large selection of non-material spells to choose from for most, if not all classes.

[Derges]

After it was mentioned in a thread the other day...

Please Mr DM can I use a Minatour's Horn as a weapon for the purposes of paladin smites? If so my horn is the horn that shall pierce the heavens. (Well aware that this is house rule territory)

[stoutstien]

After it was mentioned in a thread the other day...

Please Mr DM can I use a Minatour's Horn as a weapon for the purposes of paladin smites? If so my horn is the horn that shall pierce the heavens. (Well aware that this is house rule territory)

They are already natural weapons so you can smite with them. One of the reasons they changed the wording for all the build in claw/hoof, and other options.
It's still a silly distinction point but it is what it is.

[Dork_Forge]

Honestly I'd vote no component pouch either, there are a lot of spells that don't require components. Shutting down the ones that do isn't really dissimilar from shutting down options that require armor or weapons.

Might do a more detailed thing later, but I think my initial suggestion would probably go to:

- Tabaxi Monk, probably either Mercy or Ascendant Dragon
- Beast Barbarian, I'm thinking Leonin
- Protector Aasimar Divine Soul Sorcerer
- Strength-based plasmoid Fighter unarmed style, probably echo Knight or battle master
- Goblin Bladelock, probably the divine one

[nickl_2000]

I'm building a Loxodon Rune Knight Grappler Fighter with the Unarmed fighting style.

16 (15+1)
11
18 (16+2)
7
14
12

So, we have 16 AC at level 1, 17 AC max when you boost your Constitution higher. You deal 1d8 damage +3 damage with your fists and start with a +5 to your athletics. Since you have two free hands you are grapple two people at once and between your high strength and the Loxodon powerful build you can easily drag anything around. By the rules of the OP, you can etch the runes on something you can hold in your hand and you are allowed money. So you etch the runes on your coins. Then you spend time shoving people over so that they are prone making it harder to hurt you and your AC should be okay in general.

You have the ability to grow to Large at level 3 to be able to grapple even better and more things, plus you get advantage on strength checks to grapple. Then you need to take the Skilled feat to gain expertise in Athletics. Throw in the Frost Rune to give yourself a +2 bonus the Athletics for 10 minutes per short rest and you can grab pretty much anything you like.

You could also substitute Tortle for Loxodon, you don't get powerful build, but you start with 17 AC and don't need to boost your Constitution as high immediately, leaving you the ability to get higher Strength to begin with.

[Amnestic]

A cleric with no material components would still perform adequately. They'd miss out on a few staples (Bless, Spirit Guardians) and amusingly all of their 8th level spells have material components, but they still get damage, healing, and control spells. Conjure Celestial at 7th is even material-less so they've got a solid late-game summon option.

Druids fare less well in my opinion, though they at least get a few 8th level spells they can cast. Their non-material 2nd level spell selection is pretty limited, so they might need to rely on their subclass for help there, or just upcast stuff.

Bard is pretty solid with no material components.

No great surprise, Wizards do fine with no material components due to their massive spell list. Sorcs are likewise not hindered too badly.

Rangers start off okay but get worse into late game (just like normal rangers! wow!)

Warlocks are fine with no material components - they get EB, they'd always be fine, but they've got a decent spread of levelled spells too.

Paladin could just dump all their slots into smiting, but they don't need to. While they lose out on some spells, they keep their Smite spells, Find (Greater) Steed and Destructive Wave. They're minimally affected by this.

Artificers are completely worthless, since they need tools to cast every single artificer spell and items to infuse on, so they're literally unusable. Whoopsie!

So yeah, tl;dr is that spellcasters (except Artificers, obvs) with no material component option can work just fine, it wouldn't be too dissimilar to not having weapons/armour on a martial.

[J-H]

Monk, cleric, druid, sorc, wiz, warlock, unarmed barbarian (feat or beast).
Cleric would need to be a back line cleric.

Losers:
Rogue has no easy access to good unarmed strike improvement and usually wants a bow
Fighters can't sub in magic for everything like full casters. An unarmed fighter is not as good as a Beast or unarmed barbarian.
Bards usually need musical instruments
Artificers are definitely out.
Rangers have nearly no native support outside of a corner case with Unarmed and Hunter's Mark.

You basically end up with a caster party supported by monks or specific barbarians.

[Dork_Forge]

A cleric with no material components would still perform adequately. They'd miss out on a few staples (Bless, Spirit Guardians) and amusingly all of their 8th level spells have material components, but they still get damage, healing, and control spells. Conjure Celestial at 7th is even material-less so they've got a solid late-game summon option.

Druids fare less well in my opinion, though they at least get a few 8th level spells they can cast. Their non-material 2nd level spell selection is pretty limited, so they might need to rely on their subclass for help there, or just upcast stuff.

Bard is pretty solid with no material components.

No great surprise, Wizards do fine with no material components due to their massive spell list. Sorcs are likewise not hindered too badly.

Rangers start off okay but get worse into late game (just like normal rangers! wow!)

Warlocks are fine with no material components - they get EB, they'd always be fine, but they've got a decent spread of levelled spells too.

Paladin could just dump all their slots into smiting, but they don't need to. While they lose out on some spells, they keep their Smite spells, Find (Greater) Steed and Destructive Wave. They're minimally affected by this.

Artificers are completely worthless, since they need tools to cast every single artificer spell and items to infuse on, so they're literally unusable. Whoopsie!

So yeah, tl;dr is that spellcasters (except Artificers, obvs) with no material component option can work just fine, it wouldn't be too dissimilar to not having weapons/armour on a martial.

Just to add, Clerics would be more neutered, since CD often (always?) requires them to use a holy symbol.



Losers:
Fighters can't sub in magic for everything like full casters. An unarmed fighter is not as good as a Beast or unarmed barbarian.


I'm curious, what makes you rate a Fighter so much lower than an unarmed Barbarian, particularly when the former can grab the unarmed style for much better unarmed strikes and grapple damage?

[nickl_2000]

I'm curious, what makes you rate a Fighter so much lower than an unarmed Barbarian, particularly when the former can grab the unarmed style for much better unarmed strikes and grapple damage?

I think the biggest issue with Fighters vs Barbarians is the lack of another way to get your AC up at all. That being said that can be mitigated with a race choice, like I did above.

[da newt]

5 shepherd druids - tortles.

[Amnestic]

Just to add, Clerics would be more neutered, since CD often (always?) requires them to use a holy symbol.


Hadn't considered that.

On review, Turn Undead and Harness Divine Power (the subclass agnostic options) both require a holy symbol to use.
The subclasses that don't need one for their Channel Divinity are: Death, Forge, Grave, Knowledge, Order, Peace, Tempest, Trickery, and War.
So the ones that do need it: Arcana, Life, Light, Nature, Twilight.

[Dork_Forge]

I think the biggest issue with Fighters vs Barbarians is the lack of another way to get your AC up at all. That being said that can be mitigated with a race choice, like I did above.

That's definitely something to consider, but with so many race options that can tackle it I don't think AC is a particular sticking point for any class in this kind of environment.


Hadn't considered that.

On review, Turn Undead and Harness Divine Power (the subclass agnostic options) both require a holy symbol to use.
The subclasses that don't need one for their Channel Divinity are: Death, Forge, Grave, Knowledge, Order, Peace, Tempest, Trickery, and War.
So the ones that do need it: Arcana, Life, Light, Nature, Twilight.

I think this is important for anyone planning Clerics in this challenge, a subclass that doesn't get it's CD is a substantial consideration depending on what the CD is.

[CTurbo]

Originally I was thinking about having the characters only in clothes with NOTHING else, but then I figured at the very least they'd need a coin pouch. It could work like that with them not even being allowed to carry a bag for adventuring gear or material components, but is probably too limiting.

90% of Rituals require material components. Even if you gave the Wizard a spellbook, losing most rituals would hurt really bad.

None of the Warlock pacts would work under these rules either.

No Bard unless you allowed them to use their singing voice as an instrument.

Rogues could work in every aspect except I can't think of any way for them to get their Sneak Attack in except for an Arcane Trickster using Shadow Blade. I think Shadow Blade would be acceptable under these conditions.

Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins would struggle with AC and really have a hard time bypassing immunity to non magical attacks. EK Fighter would be limited to Shadow Blade. I would let a Paladin smite with any race's natural weapon or unarmed strike.

Clerics would also struggle with AC. I would let them use a necklace pendant as a holy focus. They would be fine otherwise.

Barbarians would be the only class that would even consider Str as Dex just got more important than ever I guess unless you were a Tortle.

Magical items would be limited to only things worn(except armor) and nothing carried would be allowed. So any magic robe, ring, necklace, gauntlets, boots etc would be fine, but no weapons, rods, staffs, wands, shields etc would be allowed. I guess some magic gauntlets could help Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins overcome immunity to non magical attacks.

[Amnestic]

No Bard unless you allowed them to use their singing voice as an instrument.

Bards can choose to use an instrument to satisfy material component requirements on spells in addition to the standard arcane focus/component pouch, but unlike artificers they're not required to use it non-M-component spells. They've got enough non-M spells on their list to do just fine even without any items.

Likewise none of their features require an instrument, their words do just fine.

[Dork_Forge]

Originally I was thinking about having the characters only in clothes with NOTHING else, but then I figured at the very least they'd need a coin pouch. It could work like that with them not even being allowed to carry a bag for adventuring gear or material components, but is probably too limiting.

I think you're overestimating the effect for the most part, but I'll say this: Disallowing weapons, armor, and tools is way more severe than components (I mean it literally removes the Artificer as a class entirely), doing all of that and then allowing components seems a bit skewed imo.


90% of Rituals require material components. Even if you gave the Wizard a spellbook, losing most rituals would hurt really bad.

Whilst this is true in terms of how it affects rituals... would this really affect the game as a whole that much? Detect Magic is probably one of the most used rituals, and it survives this.


None of the Warlock pacts would work under these rules either.

Wait what? How so? If you are allowing Shadow Blade, why wouldn't you also allow the Bladelock's created weapon the same? The talisman is worn, the book of shadows is basically the same concept as a Wizard's spell book. Chain does get hard shut down though.


No Bard unless you allowed them to use their singing voice as an instrument.

Why? They don't need instruments to cast spells and their actual features (Bardic Inspiration, Song of Rest etc.) specifically call out that words and oration are applicable.


Rogues could work in every aspect except I can't think of any way for them to get their Sneak Attack in except for an Arcane Trickster using Shadow Blade. I think Shadow Blade would be acceptable under these conditions.

In general Rogues get screwed by this, but Soul Knives are built for this, they're probably one of the strongest choices.


Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins would struggle with AC and really have a hard time bypassing immunity to non magical attacks. EK Fighter would be limited to Shadow Blade. I would let a Paladin smite with any race's natural weapon or unarmed strike.

Magical resistance could be hard, but AC isn't difficult when races can solve it. There are plenty of options for 13 + Dex and you can just default to Tortle if it's a Des dumping build.

Isn't a Paladin smiting with a natural weapon RAW anyway? Natural weapons aren't unarmed strikes, they're weapons that are allowed to be used when you make an unarmed strike.


Clerics would also struggle with AC. I would let them use a necklace pendant as a holy focus. They would be fine otherwise.

This... kind of defeats some of the point as this just gives them a focus.


Magical items would be limited to only things worn(except armor) and nothing carried would be allowed. So any magic robe, ring, necklace, gauntlets, boots etc would be fine, but no weapons, rods, staffs, wands, shields etc would be allowed. I guess some magic gauntlets could help Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins overcome immunity to non magical attacks.

There's a magical tattoo that works for unarmed strikes.

[sithlordnergal]

Hmmm, for no equipment I would make the following:


Lizardfolk Monk of Mercy: This will be a secondary healer, and provides some pretty decent control/damage

Half-Elf Hexblade, with Pact of the Blade: Your melee and ranged fighter, they provide a little bit of spell casting, but their main thing is being in the front-line

Any race, Moon Druid: Moon Druids don't need very much to be extremely effective. They also provide healing and control spells

High Elf, Order of Scribes: You gain a spellbook, and can use your spellbook as a spell casting focus. You also end up being pretty flexible.

[Psyren]

Why pair Lizardfolk with Monk? Monk already gets its own unarmored defense, so the racial one isn't necessary, and the bite is also competing with martial arts/flurry. It seems like a lot of antisynergy to me.

[sithlordnergal]

Why pair Lizardfolk with Monk? Monk already gets its own unarmored defense, so the racial one isn't necessary, and the bite is also competing with martial arts/flurry. It seems like a lot of antisynergy to me.

They actually have more synergy than you might think:


Their basic Bite Attack works with Unarmed Strike, just like a Tabaxi's Claws. However, it starts at a d6 instead of a d4. Its a small damage boost for early levels, effectively giving you a 5th level Mon's Unarmed Strike at level 1

Hungry Jaws allows for a quick way to gain some Temp HP as a Bonus Action that doesn't use up any Ki. Basically, if you were going to use the free Bonus Action Unarmed Strike that Martial Arts gives you, you can use this and gain some Temp HP on top of it.

They have a Swim Speed, and they can hold their breath for 15 minutes. The Monk's Unarmored Movement applies to their Swim speed and their Walking Speed. Plus having a Swim Speed means you can use your Unarmed Strikes and normal Monk weapons underwater without any Disadvantage


The only thing you don't actually need is the Unarmored Defense, but you'll make use of everything else. Its also a really easy way to get Slashing damage with your Unarmed Strike, though I preferred when it was Piercing damage.

Finally...lets be honest, viciously biting someone in the throat to heal them is a hilarious mental image, as is just using Bite attacks as a Monk in general. And it fits surprisingly well with Lizardfolk lore, last time I checked the lore. Unless they changed, most Lizardfolk don't use regular weapons or armor

EDIT: I will admit, the loss of Cunning Artisan does sting a little. Cause it basically meant you'd almost always have a javelin or two that you made yourself. But its not that big of a loss.

[Eldariel]

Meh. If we go hardcore and just go for loincloth, 4 Druids seems pretty good? Make it like Moon, Moon, Shepherd, Shepherd, since those don't really rely on items (Conjure Animals crucially has no material components). Stars needs the map, Wildfire would probably be fine too.

[Phhase]

They are already natural weapons so you can smite with them. One of the reasons they changed the wording for all the build in claw/hoof, and other options.
It's still a silly distinction point but it is what it is.

Huh. But do natural weapon attacks count as unarmed attacks? Can they benefit from unarmed fighting style or Martial Arts Dice?

[Psyren]

They are already natural weapons so you can smite with them. One of the reasons they changed the wording for all the build in claw/hoof, and other options.
It's still a silly distinction point but it is what it is.

... Ehhh.... That's (questionably) true for legacy minotaurs from GGtR - it calls their horns natural melee weapons but then immediately says they make unarmed strikes, so it's unclear - but the horns for the updated ones in MPMM are unequivocally unarmed strikes now, so no smite.


They actually have more synergy than you might think: *snipped for length*


Eh, still seems marginal to me, at least compared to other classes they could take.
Cunning Artisan should be something anyone can do with via tools imo.


Huh. But do natural weapon attacks count as unarmed attacks? Can they benefit from unarmed fighting style or Martial Arts Dice?

Generally, natural weapons are not unarmed strikes or vice-versa. (Source - Sage Advice (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA262)):


Are natural weapons considered weapons?
Things designated as weapons by the rules, including natural weapons, are indeed weapons. In contrast, unarmed strikes are not weapons. They are something you do with an unarmed part of your body.

However, as with unarmed strikes throughout D&D's history, it's a bit complicated. It usually depends on the weapon and what it says. For example., a monk's unarmed strike isn't a weapon, but it doesn't matter most of the time because attacks with them are still weapon attacks. Conversely, a Beast Barbarian Claws/Bite/Tail are simple weapons rather than unarmed strikes.

Most of the racial natural weapons from MPMM onward are modified unarmed strikes.

[Rukelnikov]

Meh. If we go hardcore and just go for loincloth, 4 Druids seems pretty good? Make it like Moon, Moon, Shepherd, Shepherd, since those don't really rely on items (Conjure Animals crucially has no material components). Stars needs the map, Wildfire would probably be fine too.

But stars can create the map even in those conditions, they don't require materials like for summoning a familiar.

[Eldariel]

But stars can create the map even in those conditions, they don't require materials like for summoning a familiar.

But it's a map, not a loincloth! RAGRH!

[Psyren]

But it's a map, not a loincloth! RAGRH!

You probably could make a star map by taking a loincloth and making a few dents/holes in it. One of the suggested star maps in the book is a marked piece of owlbear hide.

In fact, we have a recent popular culture example of a cloth-based star map - in the MCU's Moon Knight, they recover one from an ancient sarcophagus that enables them to find a hidden tomb.

[Eldariel]

You probably could make a star map by taking a loincloth and making a few dents/holes in it. One of the suggested star maps in the book is a marked piece of owlbear hide.

In fact, we have a recent popular culture example of a cloth-based star map - in the MCU's Moon Knight, they recover one from an ancient sarcophagus that enables them to find a hidden tomb.

If you make it on the one around your pelvis, I'm all for it! Wearing the map is fine. Very Druidy, even.

[CTurbo]

I guess every Bard I've ever seen had an instrument so I didn't realize they were optional.

I always thought Paladins could not smite without an actual weapon. Not sure exactly what RAW is when it comes to natural weapons like horns, claws, and bites. This seems to all be up for debate as Jeremy Crawford says unarmed strikes cannot be used to smite with. I guess it's all in the specific wording of each individual race with natural weapons. I just know that me and my groups would allow a Paladin to smite with any type of unarmed strike just for the sake of simplicity.

I didn't think about Soul Knife Rogues, but yeah they sound great for this.

When it comes to the Bladelock, I thought that the pact weapon they create in their hand is an actual weapon and not magical energy like Shadow Blade or the Soul Knife. If it's a literal weapon that you can picked up, put down, or touch in general, I think it defeats the purpose of this exercise.

I'm actually a big fan of the 5e Lizardfolk and I think it makes an excellent Monk. The Lizardfolk Monk I played with was great and I loved using Flurry of Bites and tailwhip martial arts. Yeah the Natural Armor feature was wasted and the Hungry Jaws feature is pretty lame, but everything else was great. I dominated the underwater encounter, and was able to keep plenty of darts and blowgun needles around which we were able to poison and use a few times to great success. I really enjoyed my Lizardfolk Barbarian that I would grapple, restrain, and viciously bite the enemy before the Beast Barbarian was a thing. I also enjoy RPing a Lizardfolk. One of our party members just died? Well we can use his body for stuff give me a few minutes haha. Definitely an under-rated race to me.

[Psyren]

I always thought Paladins could not smite without an actual weapon. Not sure exactly what RAW is when it comes to natural weapons like horns, claws, and bites. This seems to all be up for debate as Jeremy Crawford says unarmed strikes cannot be used to smite with. I guess it's all in the specific wording of each individual race with natural weapons. I just know that me and my groups would allow a Paladin to smite with any type of unarmed strike just for the sake of simplicity.

They're on record as not liking that because it makes Paladins punch harder than Monks (Crawford stated this in the pre-survey video for the Paladin). Same reason they're not fans of unarmed strike + sneak attack. They're also iffy on ranged smites because Paladins might outshoot Rangers and outthrow Barbarians.

They're trying both out in the most recent Paladin playtest, but he's already expecting them to nerf punch-smites in some way, if they don't just remove it again altogether.


I didn't think about Soul Knife Rogues, but yeah they sound great for this.

As long as you cover the AC deficiency they'd excel here. I particularly like Thri-Kreen because not only do they solve that problem, they're naturally psychic, making soulknives an easy thematic fit. They even have added synergy in normal games (where weapons are allowed) because they can hold one in their extra hands, allowing them to keep both primary hands free for psychic blades on their turn while still making opportunity attacks on an enemy's turn without any awkward juggling.



I'm actually a big fan of the 5e Lizardfolk and I think it makes an excellent Monk. The Lizardfolk Monk I played with was great and I loved using Flurry of Bites and tailwhip martial arts. Yeah the Natural Armor feature was wasted and the Hungry Jaws feature is pretty lame, but everything else was great. I dominated the underwater encounter, and was able to keep plenty of darts and blowgun needles around which we were able to poison and use a few times to great success. I really enjoyed my Lizardfolk Barbarian that I would grapple, restrain, and viciously bite the enemy before the Beast Barbarian was a thing. I also enjoy RPing a Lizardfolk. One of our party members just died? Well we can use his body for stuff give me a few minutes haha. Definitely an under-rated race to me.

To be clear, I love Lizardfolk, just not as monks. And if I wanted an aquatic monk I think there are better options there too.

[Dork_Forge]

Generally, natural weapons are not unarmed strikes or vice-versa. (Source - Sage Advice (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA262)):



However, as with unarmed strikes throughout D&D's history, it's a bit complicated. It usually depends on the weapon and what it says. For example., a monk's unarmed strike isn't a weapon, but it doesn't matter most of the time because attacks with them are still weapon attacks. Conversely, a Beast Barbarian Claws/Bite/Tail are simple weapons rather than unarmed strikes.

Most of the racial natural weapons from MPMM onward are modified unarmed strikes.

To expand on this, natural weapons granted from races tend to include the qualifier that they can be used to make unarmed strikes. The only one that is missing this I can think of is the Dhampir, of course before they dropped natural weapon language for the race redos.


So a Tabaxi from Volo's could be a Paladin and could smite with an unarmed strike, because they're using a weapon do make that unarmed strike.

[sithlordnergal]

To be clear, I love Lizardfolk, just not as monks. And if I wanted an aquatic monk I think there are better options there too.

That's kind of funny, I find Lizardfolk, Tabaxi, and races with a Fly speed make the best Monks. With the Lizardfolk, its mostly the Temp HP and Bite attack, while Tabaxi its the movement speed boost, and other races have the Fly speed.