Atropal Scion rebuking - RHD or RHD + class levels?

[redking]

Rebuke Undead (Su): An atropal scion can rebuke or command undead as a cleric of the same level as the atropal scion's HD.

I am inclined to think that class levels of the Atropal Scion count for its ability to rebuke undead, as it states HD. But sometimes HD and RHD are used interchangeably. What is the consensus?

[Beni-Kujaku]

RAW‚ all HD‚ including class levels‚ so an Atropal Scion Commoner 5 would rebuke as a 14th level cleric‚ and an atropal scion cleric 5 would rebuke as a 9+5+5=19th level cleric‚ since rebuking levels stack.
RAI‚ the atropal scion was never intended to have class levels‚ only advance through RHD‚ so the question is moot.
The LA assignment thread was derailed talking about the wight-creating aura and didn't really touch upon if the Scion could reach ETL 9‚ ETL 19 or ETL 29.

[redking]

RAW‚ all HD‚ including class levels‚ so an Atropal Scion Commoner 5 would rebuke as a 14th level cleric‚ and an atropal scion cleric 5 would rebuke as a 9+5+5=19th level cleric‚ since rebuking levels stack.
RAI‚ the atropal scion was never intended to have class levels‚ only advance through RHD‚ so the question is moot.


Excellent point. Does Advancement: 10-13 HD (Medium); 14-27 HD (Large) mean that they must advance in this manner, or merely that they can advance in this manner?

I am thinking of the Atropal Scion necromancer Xingax (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Xingax), who is a necromantic artisan. Although this character is from the 4E days, and thus cannot be directly connected to 3.5e rules, he did have spellcasting abilities. In my headcanon, he was a dread necromancer. Actually, the lore of Xingax's background is more consistent with an Atropal, rather than the lesser Atropal Scion, but Xingax's actual powers are more consistent with the lower powered version.


Before he had a chance to be born, Xingax was torn from his mother's womb by her mate, though it was unknown if the being was his father. It was believed that if his mother carried him to term and gave birth, Xingax would have been born a demipower of the Abyss.Following his "creation", Xingax spent nearly all of his existence within the Abyss.

If Xingax was a dread necromancer, then his RHD would stack with rebuking from DN, so no problem. If he was a regular necromancer wizard, then he's going to be somewhat lacking.

[Chronos]

When a class description says that something scales with "level", it means level in that class. By analogy, I would assume that when a monster ability says that something scales with "hit dice", it means hit dice of that monster, i.e., racial hit dice.

[Biggus]

Excellent point. Does Advancement: 10-13 HD (Medium); 14-27 HD (Large) mean that they must advance in this manner, or merely that they can advance in this manner?


My understanding is that any creature with Int 3+ can take class levels at least in principle. There are lots of stat blocks for creatures with class levels which have HD advancement listed in their MM entry in 3e. There are lots of dragons and demons with class levels for example.

[redking]

So RHD it is. That certainly ensures that there aren't unintended consequences. For one, a Atropal Scion with levels of cleric would get 2X rebuking.