Does ferocity/rage work knowledge devotion

[incog64]

If you use knowledge devotion and later go into rage, do you lose the benefits of knowledge devotion. I am taking a dip in cloistered cleric and barbarian for a TWF build. Good ole pounce and travel devotion away.

Knowledge devotion is a feat and the ferocity description says feats work.

"While in a state of ferocity, the barbarian cannot use any Charisma- or Intelligence-based skills (except for Intimidate), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except item creation feats and metamagic feats."

[Eldonauran]

I don't see why not. So long as you aren't attempting to make the knowledge check DURING a rage. A Rage would prevent you from making the Int-based skill check to activate the effects of the feat, but it should not end the effects if they are already present.

[incog64]

I don't see why not. So long as you aren't attempting to make the knowledge check DURING a rage. A Rage would prevent you from making the Int-based skill check to activate the effects of the feat, but it should not end the effects if they are already present.

Thanks. I'm knew so I try do a little research before I talk to my dm.

[Crake]

I don't see why not. So long as you aren't attempting to make the knowledge check DURING a rage. A Rage would prevent you from making the Int-based skill check to activate the effects of the feat, but it should not end the effects if they are already present.

While this is the correct answer by RAW, I can see a DM saying that the spirit of the rules would mean that, mid rage, a barbarian wouldnt have the mental faculties to make judgements based on their knowledge check, and hence not receive any bonus.

[incog64]

While this is the correct answer by RAW, I can see a DM saying that the spirit of the rules would mean that, mid rage, a barbarian wouldnt have the mental faculties to make judgements based on their knowledge check, and hence not receive any bonus.

Fair but my counter point would be that, that "knowledge" would be "instinct".

[Biggus]

While this is the correct answer by RAW, I can see a DM saying that the spirit of the rules would mean that, mid rage, a barbarian wouldnt have the mental faculties to make judgements based on their knowledge check, and hence not receive any bonus.

I also wondered about whether it was in the spirit of the rules, but I reached the opposite conclusion. If you briefly pause to remember what you know about an opponent before letting the rage overtake you, it should be easy enough to take what you remembered ("try to hit here, here or here") with you into a state of rage. While you're full of emotion in rage, you're not mindless; you can still use all your combat feats except Combat Expertise, you still know friend from foe, and you can end the rage voluntarily at any time. If we were talking about the Frenzied Berserker's frenzy ability I could see more of a RAI/RAMS argument against it.

[Crake]

Fair but my counter point would be that, that "knowledge" would be "instinct".

Except it's clearly not, because you need to use a knowledge check to access it, which is an intelligence skill, something not normally accessible to you while raging. If it was something wisdom based, which happens to be the one mental ability based skills barbarians can use while raging, then I would as a DM probably agree, but knowledge is very much booky int-based learning, not instinctual wis based understanding.


I also wondered about whether it was in the spirit of the rules, but I reached the opposite conclusion. If you briefly pause to remember what you know about an opponent before letting the rage overtake you, it should be easy enough to take what you remembered ("try to hit here, here or here") with you into a state of rage. While you're full of emotion in rage, you're not mindless; you can still use all your combat feats except Combat Expertise, you still know friend from foe, and you can end the rage voluntarily at any time. If we were talking about the Frenzied Berserker's frenzy ability I could see more of a RAI/RAMS argument against it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I would rule it this way, more that, I would 100% understand if a DM decided to rule otherwise, and would not personally argue against it.

[incog64]

Except it's clearly not, because you need to use a knowledge check to access it, which is an intelligence skill, something not normally accessible to you while raging. If it was something wisdom based, which happens to be the one mental ability based skills barbarians can use while raging, then I would as a DM probably agree, but knowledge is very much booky int-based learning, not instinctual wis based understanding.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I would rule it this way, more that, I would 100% understand if a DM decided to rule otherwise, and would not personally argue against it.

Fair enough.