Rebel7284
2023-05-03, 02:34 PM
So Sharn...
Anauroch, the Empire of Shade p. 153
At +5LA 4HD it's not for most games. However, it's a silly, silly race that opens up SO much cheese and that makes it a favorite of mine!
:smallbiggrin:
- Casting as Favored Soul 6 and Sorcerer 6. That's 12 levels of spellcasting progression total on an ECL 9 creature.
- 3 standard actions/turn is a very big one, even though it has a limitation that if it uses those actions to cast spells, they need to come from separate spell lists.
- Regeneration
- SR/DR/Immunities
- Evasion
[I have some questions at the end of the post]
At first glance, it looks like getting 9th level spells is impossible since you're three levels behind a Sorcerer/Favored Soul which means missing out by one level, however, there are ways around it.
The more complicated and cheesy one first:
Sharn/Eldritch Master 2/Nar Demonbinder 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Eldritch Master +1
(needs flaws for sure)
- Favored + Primary Contact to enter Eldritch Master early
- Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell for 4th level spells requirement
- You need to buy a Codex Anathema to qualify for Nar Demonbinder since your HD is a bit low. However, your ECL is high enough that it should be reasonably affordable.
- Some feat to expand your spell list (Arcane Disciple? Bloodline?)
As an upside, you end up casting as Favored Soul 12/Sorcerer 6/Nar Demonbinder 7+ which is fairly flexible especially with the bonus spells from Eldritch Master. Independent Action MAY even allow you to cast 3 spells per turn since
though the two spells must come from the lists of different classes due to the peculiar structure of a sharn’s mental processes.
Well you have three separate casting classes, so I don't see why you can't satisfy this limitation while casting 3 spells. :smallbiggrin:
However, after a bunch of research and coming up with a brand new entry trick to Arcane Hierophant, I realized there is a simpler way.
First of all, be playing with LA buyoff. In general, it's considered a balanced alternative rule since the benefits of LA races typically get weaker and weaker as you level. Admittedly, LA buyoff does encourage players to start with LA+1 races since those can be bought off reasonably painlessly. However, it's essential here to get 9th before epic with less cheese. For a 5LA 4HD creature, LA buyoff happens at level 19, which HURTS, but is worth it.
Sharn Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10
Take Knowledge Devotion to add Knowledge Nature to your skill list (and also helps with damage output, so hurray!)
Find the core Hierophant class with Druid levels and Power of Nature (Su) and hire them to give you Trackless Step once a week for a full week. As a SU ability, it's can't be dispelled. With that said, having to renew it every week is a weakness since depending on your DM, you might lose your casting if you're stuck somewhere long enough.
if the Hierophant just happens to have Extend Supernatural Ability feat, you can then renew every two weeks.
With all of those limitations in mind, you're still getting double 9s on a Sharn chassis.
So focusing on that second build, once we have the casting what do we do with the feats and what should the build focus on?
Feats Because of its independent action ability and 20 Dexterity, a sharn’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make fifteen additional attacks of opportunity, but no more than [B]five attacks of opportunity with any given attack.
AOOs: Being able to AOO 5 times for every opportunity is kinda silly. That's 5 trip/knockback/etc attempts possibly from Hex portals so you can keep yourself far away! Give this character a Spiked Chain or three! With that said, AOO builds require a TON of feats to do very well and as a caster, you will likely have a good amount of battlefield control without having to resort to hitting things, so probably not the best focus, although picking up Combat Reflexes is probably still good.
(Natural) Weapons: Sharn have 9 claws and 3 bites for a grand total of 12 natural attacks. Improved Natural Attack definitely does things. Amulet of Mighty Fists is nifty too. There is a bit of tension, however, with the fact that every manufactured weapon you use removes a claw attack or two. Weapons can have useful special abilities, offer reach, etc, so Improved Multiweapon Fighting might be better than natural weapons, or just skip the gish things and focus on casting.
Metamagic: Usually what brings casters over the top in terms of power is heavy metamagic use, especially Persistent Spell. However, that usually requires specific classes. The only method I can think of that greatly reduces metamagic costs without needing extra class levels is Node Spellcasting -> Metanode Spell. Persist all your buffs in the morning for free in your underground fortress, then teleport to your next adventure. With that said, with it taking 4 feats total to Persist Spells and potentially another weakness if someone can take over your Earth Node, it may not be the right choice in every game.
Alternatively: If you can get yourself multiple or a multiclass Hierophants, Gift of the Divine (Su) can transfer Turn Undead to you so you can do the regular Divine Metamagic. With that said, I would only do this if the Hierophant is a cohort that travels with you since you ideally need to refresh those daily. Also doesn't work with your arcane spells.
General: Versatile Spellcaster, Craft Contingent Spell, Leadership (for that Hierophant). All incredible feats.
Cheese++: Multiple Head Casting (https://web.archive.org/web/20170330172227/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20010223a) while this feat was meant for Ettins, Sharn Definitely qualify to take it three times for an extra three standard actions. Yes, this would mean up to 6 standard actions per turn. It's unclear how (and if) this interacts with Independent Action's limitation that spells cast must come from a different class. Since the actions are coming from a different source, presumably it doesn't interact at all. Even with 2 spell lists, you may run out of spells fairly rapidly if you're firing 5-6 of them per turn. Also Un-updated 3.0 content that was meant to be published at a later time, but never was (presumably replaced with Multivoice in Savage Speciest, but we don't know for sure)
Bonus dirty trick: One of the main drawback of Sharn is Inviolate Form. While the base form on Sharn is VERY good, being able to change to other forms for utility would be nifty. Luckily, Trait Removal spell from Serpent Kingdoms can get rid of it for hours/level if necessary! Shapechange is just that broken.
Questions for the playground:
1. What feats would YOU chose?
2. Is there any way to become immune to Lawful weapons (so that Regeneration can't be bypassed)
3. Any thoughts about what Item slots Sharn would have? I presume one extra ring and no shoes.
4. What are y'all thoughts about where to draw the line for "spells and effects that would significantly change its bodily form or composition"
- Size changing effects such as Righteous Might: I am leaning towards not affected.
- Aspect of the Deity (Lesser/Greater): I am leaning towards affected.
- Fuse arms: I am leaning towards not affected.
- Mantle of the Fiery Spirit: I am leaning towards affected
Anauroch, the Empire of Shade p. 153
At +5LA 4HD it's not for most games. However, it's a silly, silly race that opens up SO much cheese and that makes it a favorite of mine!
:smallbiggrin:
- Casting as Favored Soul 6 and Sorcerer 6. That's 12 levels of spellcasting progression total on an ECL 9 creature.
- 3 standard actions/turn is a very big one, even though it has a limitation that if it uses those actions to cast spells, they need to come from separate spell lists.
- Regeneration
- SR/DR/Immunities
- Evasion
[I have some questions at the end of the post]
At first glance, it looks like getting 9th level spells is impossible since you're three levels behind a Sorcerer/Favored Soul which means missing out by one level, however, there are ways around it.
The more complicated and cheesy one first:
Sharn/Eldritch Master 2/Nar Demonbinder 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Eldritch Master +1
(needs flaws for sure)
- Favored + Primary Contact to enter Eldritch Master early
- Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell for 4th level spells requirement
- You need to buy a Codex Anathema to qualify for Nar Demonbinder since your HD is a bit low. However, your ECL is high enough that it should be reasonably affordable.
- Some feat to expand your spell list (Arcane Disciple? Bloodline?)
As an upside, you end up casting as Favored Soul 12/Sorcerer 6/Nar Demonbinder 7+ which is fairly flexible especially with the bonus spells from Eldritch Master. Independent Action MAY even allow you to cast 3 spells per turn since
though the two spells must come from the lists of different classes due to the peculiar structure of a sharn’s mental processes.
Well you have three separate casting classes, so I don't see why you can't satisfy this limitation while casting 3 spells. :smallbiggrin:
However, after a bunch of research and coming up with a brand new entry trick to Arcane Hierophant, I realized there is a simpler way.
First of all, be playing with LA buyoff. In general, it's considered a balanced alternative rule since the benefits of LA races typically get weaker and weaker as you level. Admittedly, LA buyoff does encourage players to start with LA+1 races since those can be bought off reasonably painlessly. However, it's essential here to get 9th before epic with less cheese. For a 5LA 4HD creature, LA buyoff happens at level 19, which HURTS, but is worth it.
Sharn Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10
Take Knowledge Devotion to add Knowledge Nature to your skill list (and also helps with damage output, so hurray!)
Find the core Hierophant class with Druid levels and Power of Nature (Su) and hire them to give you Trackless Step once a week for a full week. As a SU ability, it's can't be dispelled. With that said, having to renew it every week is a weakness since depending on your DM, you might lose your casting if you're stuck somewhere long enough.
if the Hierophant just happens to have Extend Supernatural Ability feat, you can then renew every two weeks.
With all of those limitations in mind, you're still getting double 9s on a Sharn chassis.
So focusing on that second build, once we have the casting what do we do with the feats and what should the build focus on?
Feats Because of its independent action ability and 20 Dexterity, a sharn’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to make fifteen additional attacks of opportunity, but no more than [B]five attacks of opportunity with any given attack.
AOOs: Being able to AOO 5 times for every opportunity is kinda silly. That's 5 trip/knockback/etc attempts possibly from Hex portals so you can keep yourself far away! Give this character a Spiked Chain or three! With that said, AOO builds require a TON of feats to do very well and as a caster, you will likely have a good amount of battlefield control without having to resort to hitting things, so probably not the best focus, although picking up Combat Reflexes is probably still good.
(Natural) Weapons: Sharn have 9 claws and 3 bites for a grand total of 12 natural attacks. Improved Natural Attack definitely does things. Amulet of Mighty Fists is nifty too. There is a bit of tension, however, with the fact that every manufactured weapon you use removes a claw attack or two. Weapons can have useful special abilities, offer reach, etc, so Improved Multiweapon Fighting might be better than natural weapons, or just skip the gish things and focus on casting.
Metamagic: Usually what brings casters over the top in terms of power is heavy metamagic use, especially Persistent Spell. However, that usually requires specific classes. The only method I can think of that greatly reduces metamagic costs without needing extra class levels is Node Spellcasting -> Metanode Spell. Persist all your buffs in the morning for free in your underground fortress, then teleport to your next adventure. With that said, with it taking 4 feats total to Persist Spells and potentially another weakness if someone can take over your Earth Node, it may not be the right choice in every game.
Alternatively: If you can get yourself multiple or a multiclass Hierophants, Gift of the Divine (Su) can transfer Turn Undead to you so you can do the regular Divine Metamagic. With that said, I would only do this if the Hierophant is a cohort that travels with you since you ideally need to refresh those daily. Also doesn't work with your arcane spells.
General: Versatile Spellcaster, Craft Contingent Spell, Leadership (for that Hierophant). All incredible feats.
Cheese++: Multiple Head Casting (https://web.archive.org/web/20170330172227/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20010223a) while this feat was meant for Ettins, Sharn Definitely qualify to take it three times for an extra three standard actions. Yes, this would mean up to 6 standard actions per turn. It's unclear how (and if) this interacts with Independent Action's limitation that spells cast must come from a different class. Since the actions are coming from a different source, presumably it doesn't interact at all. Even with 2 spell lists, you may run out of spells fairly rapidly if you're firing 5-6 of them per turn. Also Un-updated 3.0 content that was meant to be published at a later time, but never was (presumably replaced with Multivoice in Savage Speciest, but we don't know for sure)
Bonus dirty trick: One of the main drawback of Sharn is Inviolate Form. While the base form on Sharn is VERY good, being able to change to other forms for utility would be nifty. Luckily, Trait Removal spell from Serpent Kingdoms can get rid of it for hours/level if necessary! Shapechange is just that broken.
Questions for the playground:
1. What feats would YOU chose?
2. Is there any way to become immune to Lawful weapons (so that Regeneration can't be bypassed)
3. Any thoughts about what Item slots Sharn would have? I presume one extra ring and no shoes.
4. What are y'all thoughts about where to draw the line for "spells and effects that would significantly change its bodily form or composition"
- Size changing effects such as Righteous Might: I am leaning towards not affected.
- Aspect of the Deity (Lesser/Greater): I am leaning towards affected.
- Fuse arms: I am leaning towards not affected.
- Mantle of the Fiery Spirit: I am leaning towards affected