Half-elf, half-orc and tieflings as templates instead of discrete races?

[redking]

Is it crazy to have hybrid creatures as templates instead? I note that if you want a half-elf gnome, you can't do that. Instead you are locked into half-elf half human (called a half-elf). Same with the half-orc. But what if they could breed with any humanoid?

Half-Elf Template
To apply the half-elf template to a humanoid creature, apply the following changes to the base creature:

1. Size: The base creature's size remains unchanged.
2. Speed: The base creature's land speed remains unchanged.
3. Special Qualities: The base creature gains the following special qualities:
a. Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.
b. Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
c. Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
4. Skills: The base creature gains a +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks, and a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks.
5. Languages: The base creature retains its automatic languages and gains Elven as an automatic language. It can also learn any bonus languages available to the base creature.
6. Favored Class: The base creature can choose its favored class from its original favored class (before applying the template) or Wizard (the favored class of elves). When determining whether a multiclass half-elf takes an experience point penalty, their highest-level class does not count.

Half-Orc Template
To apply the half-orc template to a humanoid creature, apply the following changes to the base creature:

1. Size: The base creature's size remains unchanged.
2. Ability Score Adjustments: The base creature's ability scores are adjusted as follows: +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma. Its starting Intelligence score must be at least 3.
3. Speed: The base creature's land speed remains unchanged.
4. Special Qualities: The base creature gains the following special qualities:
a. Darkvision: Half-orcs (and orcs) can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
b. Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
5. Languages: The base creature retains its automatic languages and gains Orc as an automatic language. It can also learn the following bonus languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.
6. Favored Class: The base creature can choose its favored class from its original favored class (before applying the template) or Barbarian (the favored class of half-orcs). A multiclass half-orc's chosen favored class does not count when determining whether they take an experience point penalty.

Tiefling Template
Tiefling is an inherited template that can be added to any creature with the humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A tiefling retains all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here. The tiefling template represents the distant evil outsider ancestry, such as a demon or devil, within the base creature's bloodline.

Examples of creatures that could have the tiefling template include humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, orcs, and goblinoids.

Size and Type: The base creature's type changes to outsider (native). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

Hit Dice: Change all of the base creature's racial Hit Dice to d8s.

Speed: Tiefling retains the base creature's speed.

Armor Class: The base creature's natural armor bonus increases by +1.

Attack: A tiefling retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains a claw attack if it didn't already have one. If the base creature can use weapons, the tiefling retains this ability. A tiefling fighting without weapons uses its claw attack when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead.

Full Attack: A tiefling fighting without weapons uses its claw attack (see above) when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its claw as a natural secondary attack.

Damage: Tieflings have claw attacks that deal the indicated damage plus their Strength bonus.

Special Attacks: A tiefling retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the following special attack.

Darkness (Sp): A tiefling can use darkness, as the spell, once per day. Its caster level is equal to its character level.

Special Qualities: A tiefling retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains the following.

- Darkvision out to 60 feet.
- Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.
- +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.

Skills: A tiefling gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) × (Hit Dice + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the tiefling gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature's list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class.

Environment: Same as the base creature.

Organization: Solitary or family.

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +1.

Alignment: Usually evil (any).

Advancement: By character class.

Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +1.

Has anyone ever done this at their table? All I did was take the relevant parts of half-elf, half-orc and tiefling races and change it to a template.

Edit: just in case, a half-human template.

Half-Human Template
To apply the half-human template to a humanoid creature, apply the following changes to the base creature:

1. Size: The base creature's size remains unchanged.
2. Speed: The base creature's land speed remains unchanged.
3. Special Qualities: The base creature gains the following special qualities:
a. Human Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-human is considered a human.
b. Adaptability: Half-humans receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level.
4. Skills: The base creature gains an additional skill point at each level. If the base creature already had extra skill points per level (such as from a racial trait), this bonus stacks with the existing bonus.
5. Languages: The base creature retains its automatic languages and gains Common as an automatic language. It can also learn any bonus languages available to the base creature or humans.
6. Favored Class: The base creature can choose its favored class from its original favored class (before applying the template) or any one additional class. When determining whether a multiclass half-human takes an experience point penalty, their highest-level class does not count.

So what do you do in the instance of a hybrid of orc and elf? First you decide which ancestry the base creature favours biologically. If it is majority orc, then it is an orc base creature with the half-elf template applied. Any variant works the same way.

[Malphegor]

There’s some precedence to this in the form of stoneblessed letting one count as a member of X race if you complete it. So for that one can say your standard dwarf/gnome/goliath is equivalent to a 3 level racial class applied onto a relatively basic and bland nothing base race

[Vaern]

Time to apply half-dragon dragon cheese and roll up a half-orc orc :D

[St Fan]

How do you get a half-elf half-orc with these templates?

[H_H_F_F]

Well, first, make sure it's "any corporeal humanoid except elves/orcs/humans", to avoid shenanigans. You could also do what WoTC didn't and limit to "only one half-something template can be added to a character."

As a warning, even if you make them exclusive, if you implement these templates at LA 0, you're never going to see any player not take them. If I'm playing a humanoid warblade who isn't a skill monkey, I'm taking half orc. Period. If I play anything with marshal, I'm playing half human. If I don't have a use for skill focus and can't sacrifice Int/Cha, I'm always, always a half elf. It's free immunities and bonuses with no cost.

That is, except for opportunity cost, which could increase diversity if you started offering a whole host of "half" templates. But at this point, you'll eventually find yourself thinking "oh man, I'm sick of every party being entirely made of half-lings (no relation to halflings), I should start offering cool traits that only "pure" races get!"

And at that point, you're sort of back at square one, except you've added a whole lot of homebrew.

If all you're concerned with is flavor, yoy could always say "in my world, forest gnomes are half elf gnomes, and wild elves are half-azurin elves" and so on and so forth.

As LA 0 templates, they're too mechanically mandatory for my liking.

[SirNibbles]

I generally like the idea of half race templates. I'd suggest looking at the BoEF as a resource to limit which races are able to interbreed.

As others have said, the balance could be a bit better.

[Xihirli]

How do you get a half-elf half-orc with these templates?

Make an orc with the half-elf template or the other way around.

[redking]

How do you get a half-elf half-orc with these templates?

Apply the template to the base creature, then it became half-X.

For example, you've got a base creature orc. Then you apply the half-elf template. What you have as a result is an orc half-elf, not a half-orc, half-elf. If you did it the other way around and applied the half-orc template a base creature elf, you'd have an elf half-orc. It's up to the DM and player to decide which race is the base race.

[Beni-Kujaku]

One way to balance these templates to not be auto-pick would be to have them not gain the base race's 1st level feat‚ like a regular half-elf doesn't gain a human's bonus feat. That would make the templates still interesting (if someone is planning on taking Skill Focus anyway‚ or thinks getting +2 Str is worth a feat) but not overwhelming. A human with the half-elf template would still be slightly stronger than a regular half-elf since it's got 1 more skill point per level‚ but since the regular half-elf/orc are kinda underpowered as is‚ that would not be so bad.

[H_H_F_F]

One way to balance these templates to not be auto-pick would be to have them not gain the base race's 1st level feat‚ like a regular half-elf doesn't gain a human's bonus feat. That would make the templates still interesting (if someone is planning on taking Skill Focus anyway‚ or thinks getting +2 Str is worth a feat) but not overwhelming. A human with the half-elf template would still be slightly stronger than a regular half-elf since it's got 1 more skill point per level‚ but since the regular half-elf/orc are kinda underpowered as is‚ that would not be so bad.

Just make them a feat! Like Otherworldly, Jotunbrud, etc. A first-level only feat, instead of a template. Make it a feat category, too - "split heritage". The prereqs are "any corporeal humanoid aside from X", the special section is "if you have this feat, you cannot have any other split-heritage feat".

Definitely works, IMO.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Just make them a feat! Like Otherworldly, Jotunbrud, etc. A first-level only feat, instead of a template. Make it a feat category, too - "split heritage". The prereqs are "any corporeal humanoid aside from X", the special section is "if you have this feat, you cannot have any other split-heritage feat".

Definitely works, IMO.

Yeah, that's better. More in line with the rest of the game, too.

[St Fan]

Template or feat, you'd need to exclude changelings among the prerequisites.

It's mentioned in Races of Eberron that any mixed marriage between a changeling and another race has 50/50 chances of producing either a changeling or a full member of the other race (the latter case can be raised to 100% with the Racial Emulation feat). There is no half-changeling.

[redking]

One thing that some of the comments are missing is that you could as the race of the template. For example, I'd guess a lot of people would be looking at the half-elf template and thinking it's only a benefit to apply to a human base creature. But if you apply the half-elf template to a human, you are considered an elf for all effects. "Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf".

That means no able learner. No other human exclusive feats. I think, anyway.

[Vaern]

One thing that some of the comments are missing is that you could as the race of the template. For example, I'd guess a lot of people would be looking at the half-elf template and thinking it's only a benefit to apply to a human base creature. But if you apply the half-elf template to a human, you are considered an elf for all effects. "Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf".

That means no able learner. No other human exclusive feats. I think, anyway.

Half-elves are already considered elves in Core and can't take human exclusive feats. The Elven Blood trait in the template description is pulled straight from the core description of half-elves, verbatim.
Races of Destiny has a sidebar on the same page as Able Learner which also clarifies that half-elves and half-orcs are not treated as humans for the purpose of game effects according to the Core rules, and can not take such feats unless either a variant rule is in play to allow it (which is detailed within the same sidebar) or the character in question has taken the Human Heritage feat to be treated as a human.

[SpyOne]

One thing that some of the comments are missing is that you could as the race of the template. For example, I'd guess a lot of people would be looking at the half-elf template and thinking it's only a benefit to apply to a human base creature. But if you apply the half-elf template to a human, you are considered an elf for all effects. "Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf".

That means no able learner. No other human exclusive feats. I think, anyway.

Good catch there.

Though I am not sure that was the intent, nor that it ought to be.
I don't think that a Kobold should take no additional damage from Kobold Bane weapons just because he's part Elf. The idea is that he's both Kobold and Elf. Sort of.

Ideally they'd take less damage from Bane weapons, and only have access to some feats with a racial prerequisite. Which just makes it massively complicated.
:(

[SirNibbles]

Time to apply half-dragon dragon cheese and roll up a half-orc orc :D

While it is 3rd-party content, this is actually covered in BoEF:




Children resulting between the coupling of a half-breed and full-blooded member of a related race are considered to be full-blooded as it pertains to statistics and racial abilities. For example, if a half-elf mates with an elf and gives birth, the child will be born an elf, despite its "three-quarters" blood. Other than cosmetic differences, including sleight variations of height, weight, hair color, and so on, the child will have the same abilities as a full-blooded member of that race.

Book of Erotic Fantasy, page 26


___

Also included in the BoEF is this chart of who can procreate with whom. The list of races is rather short, but it does make some distinctions which are very logical. For example, Lizardfolk and Elves can't breed because lizards lay eggs (despite being of the humanoid type). Some other limitations, such as those of dwarves, seem to be a carryover from Tolkien's Middle Earth.

Compared to the way it was originally published, I've changed Y to O, N to X, and M to ? for the purposes of readability (too many lines). O means yes, X means no, and ? means maybe.




Interspecies Crossbreeding
Bugbear Celestial Centaur Dragon Dryad Dwarf Elf Fiend Giant Gnoll Gnome Goblin Half-Elf Half-Orc Halfling Hobgoblin Human Kobold Lizardfolk Merfolk Minotaur Nymph Ogre Orc Satyr Sprite
Bugbear O O X O O X X O ? X X ? X O X O X X X X X O ? O ? O
Celestial O O O O O O O X O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O
Centaur X O O O O X X O ? X X X X X X X ? X X X X O X X O O
Dragon O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O
Dryad O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O X O O O O O O O
Dwarf X O X O O O X O X X X X X X X X X X X X X O X X ? O
Elf X O X O O X O O ? X X X O X X X O X X O X O X X O O
Fiend O X O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O
Giant ? O ? O O ? ? O O ? X X ? ? X ? O X X ? O O O O X ?
Gnoll X O X O O X X O ? O X X X X X X X X X X X O ? X X O
Gnome X O X O O X X O X X O X X X X X X X X X X O X X ? O
Goblin ? O X O O X X O X X X O X O X O X X X X X O ? O ? O
Half-Elf X O X O O X O O ? X X X O X X X O X X O X O X X O O
Half-Orc O O X O O X X O ? X X O X O X ? O X X X X O O O O O
Halfling X O X O O X X O X X X X X X O X X X X X X O X X ? O
Hobgoblin O O X O O X X O ? X X O X ? X O X X X X X O ? ? ? O
Human X O ? O O X O O O X X X O O X X O X X O X O O O O O
Kobold X O X O O X X O X X X X X X X X X O ? X X O X X O O
Lizardfolk X O X O X X X O X X X X X X X X X ? O X X O X X X X
Merfolk X O X O O X O O ? X X X O X X X O X X O X O X X ? O
Minotaur X O X O O X X O O X X X X X X X X X X X O O ? X O O
Nymph O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O
Ogre ? O X O O X X O O ? X ? X O X ? O X X X ? O O ? ? ?
Orc O O X O O X X O O X X O X O X ? O X X X X O ? O ? ?