"Double Dragon" (Echo Knight/Monk) Build Help

[Psyren]

I recently watched Matt McMuscles 10 hour review of every Double Dragon game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEn1ALxpFAg) (...I... spend a lot of time on Youtube while working...) and it got me thinking about how I would go about making a "Double Dragon" build in D&D. Since controlling two characters is out for most people, I was thinking I'd use Echo Knight, both to live up to the name and to simulate your shadow clone from the first game.

Questions I was hoping the Playground could help with:


1) Which Monk subclass do you think pairs best with Echo Knight and why?

2) What's an ideal level breakdown between the two classes? I want at least 3 levels of Fighter of course, but should I be going for more?

3) What race works best with this concept? (Vuman seems ideal but I'm open to others.)

4) Should I even be going with fighter/monk for this or is there a better option? Say a straight unarmed fighter?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I wouldn't think more than 4 levels of fighter for the ASI unless you're not going past 4 of monk for some reason.

One consideration. The mastery for dagger, Sickle, Light Hammer are all that you can 2 weapon fight without using your bonus. Would that be more beneficial than trying to juggle echo and martial arts?

[Psyren]

I wouldn't think more than 4 levels of fighter for the ASI unless you're not going past 4 of monk for some reason.

One consideration. The mastery for dagger, Sickle, Light Hammer are all that you can 2 weapon fight without using your bonus. Would that be more beneficial than trying to juggle echo and martial arts?

That's indeed part of what I'm debating, whether delaying the Fighter 4 feat/ASI is worth the extra ki and progression from Monk, as well as what order to take things in.

Regarding Masteries - I'm holding off on OneD&D stuff until the Monk UA is out, so this would be a 5.0e build for now. I'd gladly make a 5.5e version once we have that though, and it might end up substantially stronger! I'm also happy to include a 1st-level feat, as well as any starting feat if going Vuman or CL.

As for the Echo, while you need a bonus action to create it, you can move it for free right? That would leave the bonus action available for Martial Arts/Flurry unless it's targeted. It's a valid concern though, I may have to have it use throwing weapons to avoid it getting hit and eating my bonus action to recreate.

[Arkhios]

1) Astral Self + Echo Knight = You're essentially Jotaro Kujo as you can make any and all of your attacks either from your space or that of the echo's in whichever combination you want to. Every attack. Including those you make with the arms of the astral self. Since Martial Arts starts as very low, I wouldn't say no to taking the unarmed fighting style anyway for this concept.

[CTurbo]

Take just a single level of Monk for Dex attacks and Martial Arts and stay mostly fighter. Unarmed Fighting Style of course. Echo Knight would be fine.

[BerzerkerUnit]

I recently watched Matt McMuscles 10 hour review of every Double Dragon game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEn1ALxpFAg) (...I... spend a lot of time on Youtube while working...) and it got me thinking about how I would go about making a "Double Dragon" build in D&D. Since controlling two characters is out for most people, I was thinking I'd use Echo Knight, both to live up to the name and to simulate your shadow clone from the first game.

Questions I was hoping the Playground could help with:


1) Which Monk subclass do you think pairs best with Echo Knight and why?

2) What's an ideal level breakdown between the two classes? I want at least 3 levels of Fighter of course, but should I be going for more?

3) What race works best with this concept? (Vuman seems ideal but I'm open to others.)

4) Should I even be going with fighter/monk for this or is there a better option? Say a straight unarmed fighter?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

I ran one of these and it worked pretty well.
I thought Astral Self paired best but most will probably say Kensei mechanically.

My PC died due to enemy mind whammy forcing me to betray the party and try to solo a dungeon.

Overall build for me was Fighter3/Monk6 and it worked well in a large group (more PCs means fewer turns for each so I felt comfortable spending resources often).
I chose emerald dragonborn, dumped everything but Dex, con, wisdom so I could start with 16 in each using Tasha’s character building, then focused on Wisdom.

If you’re in a smaller group, you may choose to play more conservatively, but your level 4 F3/M1 can action surge for 6 attacks. It feels 👍

[Psyren]

Thanks all for the replies!


1) Astral Self + Echo Knight = You're essentially Jotaro Kujo as you can make any and all of your attacks either from your space or that of the echo's in whichever combination you want to. Every attack. Including those you make with the arms of the astral self. Since Martial Arts starts as very low, I wouldn't say no to taking the unarmed fighting style anyway for this concept.


I ran one of these and it worked pretty well.
I thought Astral Self paired best but most will probably say Kensei mechanically.

Astral Self definitely seems like a winner here the more I think about it. The natural reach on the arms could help protect my echo, and the flavor is a great fit as the Astral Self and the Echo could be variants on the same theme/aspect/entity, so I can go Monk 5 but still feel like a "double dragon" even if I wait totake levels in Fighter. I'm open to other suggestions though!


Overall build for me was Fighter3/Monk6 and it worked well in a large group (more PCs means fewer turns for each so I felt comfortable spending resources often).
I chose emerald dragonborn, dumped everything but Dex, con, wisdom so I could start with 16 in each using Tasha’s character building, then focused on Wisdom.

1) What order did you take those levels in?
2) Why Emerald Dragonborn specifically?


If you’re in a smaller group, you may choose to play more conservatively, but your level 4 F3/M1 can action surge for 6 attacks. It feels 👍

My thought is saving Action Surge + Unleash Incarnation for when I really need to delete something nasty immediately :smallcool:


Take just a single level of Monk for Dex attacks and Martial Arts and stay mostly fighter. Unarmed Fighting Style of course. Echo Knight would be fine.

My issue here is I want at least monk 6 for the magical punches and stunning strike the level prior. I'll definitely do a fighter-forward punching build in the future though, particularly if 1DnD goes the way I think it will and magic BPS becomes a lot less important.

My initial thought is Monk 6/Fighter 3/Monk X - but again, open to suggestions on a different configuration.

[animorte]

My initial thought is Monk 6/Fighter 3/Monk X - but again, open to suggestions on a different configuration.
I was actually thinking, in this circumstance, that I would go Monk 1/Fighter 3/Monk 6/henceforth.

You get martial arts and unarmored, but get to the Echo much faster without sacrificing too much of the Monk feel. It really depends on your personal preference in which is more important, Arms or Echo. My opinion votes for the Echo to get that double feel online sooner.

[Arkhios]

I was actually thinking, in this circumstance, that I would go Monk 1/Fighter 3/Monk 6/henceforth.

You get martial arts and unarmored, but get to the Echo much faster without sacrificing too much of the Monk feel. It really depends on your personal preference in which is more important, Arms or Echo. My opinion votes for the Echo to get that double feel online sooner.

I concur. I'm playing an Echo Knight/Wizard who is currently at Ftr 4/Wiz 1, and I can say hands down that you won't need the Extra Attack all that much. Especially if you start with monk, even less so.

I'd say this is a good way to go: Monk 1 -> Fighter 3 -> Monk 6 -> ?