Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023)

[Bartmanhomer]

Hello everyone. Today I'm going to review Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023) Yesterday I saw Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3 in IMAX. I saw the two previous Guardians Of The Galaxy movies and they were good. So anyway this movie is about Rocket about his origin story and Rocket's life is on the line. What I like about this movie is that this movie was very emotional and deep and I cried for 5 to 10 minutes. It has a lot of action in it. There wasn't anything that I dislike about the movie. It's a great movie and I'll recommend it. :smile:

[Talakeal]

Excellent movie, easily the best MCU since Infinity War, although not quite as good as the original. Very emotional. Funny. Great action. But mostly a tearjerker.

Warlock was a bit wasted.


It was nice of Gunn to leave all the characters in a position to return as needed in the future and not kill anyone for shock value or closure. I was really disappointed they didn’t introduce Quasar, and then in the post credit scene I realized they did introduce Quasar and I just didn’t notice.

[Bartmanhomer]

Excellent movie, easily the best MCU since Infinity War, although not quite as good as the original. Very emotional. Funny. Great action. But mostly a tearjerker.

Warlock was a bit wasted.


It was nice of Gunn to leave all the characters in a position to return as needed in the future and not kill anyone for shock value or closure. I was really disappointed they didn’t introduce Quasar, and then in the post credit scene I realized they did introduce Quasar and I just didn’t notice.
Yes, it was a great movie. Marvel is going deep to make emotional movies these days. :smile:

[Anymage]

Between this, D&D, Mario, and the upcoming Spiderverse movie, this is looking to be a good summer. Only catch was that I'd watched this with someone who wasn't up on the whole MCU phase 4, so I had to explain why certain plot threads in 2 had been resolved elsewhere and certain characters had to be adjusted. (The movie touches on some of this for people who might have missed Infinity War/Endgame, but it can still be a bit jarring if you hadn't watched while it was all happening.)

Appreciated the cameos/references. Both the purely easter eggy (Howard the Duck cameos seem to be a thing in GotG), and the plot relevant ones.

Do the big, tentacley monsters with three rows of teeth have an official name in the comics, or are they just big monsters that looked nice? My girlfriend thinks that they look like aboleths (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16762-aboleth), and while I can see a bit of resemblance it seems like a bit of a stretch considering how they occupy very different monster niches.

I find it interesting that the credits show scenes from all three movies, and that we're promised more Star-Lord but no mention of GotG4. There'll most likely be a "getting the band back together" movie, but I'd be curious to see each character's cameos before a new threat shows up to justify said getting back together.

[Bartmanhomer]

Between this, D&D, Mario, and the upcoming Spiderverse movie, this is looking to be a good summer. Only catch was that I'd watched this with someone who wasn't up on the whole MCU phase 4, so I had to explain why certain plot threads in 2 had been resolved elsewhere and certain characters had to be adjusted. (The movie touches on some of this for people who might have missed Infinity War/Endgame, but it can still be a bit jarring if you hadn't watched while it was all happening.)

Appreciated the cameos/references. Both the purely easter eggy (Howard the Duck cameos seem to be a thing in GotG), and the plot relevant ones.

Do the big, tentacley monsters with three rows of teeth have an official name in the comics, or are they just big monsters that looked nice? My girlfriend thinks that they look like aboleths (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16762-aboleth), and while I can see a bit of resemblance it seems like a bit of a stretch considering how they occupy very different monster niches.

I find it interesting that the credits show scenes from all three movies, and that we're promised more Star-Lord but no mention of GotG4. There'll most likely be a "getting the band back together" movie, but I'd be curious to see each character's cameos before a new threat shows up to justify said getting back together.
Don't forget the upcoming Transformer movie this month.

Starlord will be back most likely in Guardians In The Galaxy Vol. 4.

[Talakeal]

Do the big, tentacley monsters with three rows of teeth have an official name in the comics, or are they just big monsters that looked nice? My girlfriend thinks that they look like aboleths (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/16762-aboleth), and while I can see a bit of resemblance it seems like a bit of a stretch considering how they occupy very different monster niches.

Abilisks. Those are the same monsters that the team fought in the opening credits of part 2. AFAICT they are original to the movies.

On that note, I was honestly wondering if some of the high Evolutionary's minions were supposed to be a reference to Brute Force (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09q9h4TTZ60).


Between this, D&D, Mario, and the upcoming Spiderverse movie, this is looking to be a good summer. Only catch was that I'd watched this with someone who wasn't up on the whole MCU phase 4, so I had to explain why certain plot threads in 2 had been resolved elsewhere and certain characters had to be adjusted. (The movie touches on some of this for people who might have missed Infinity War/Endgame, but it can still be a bit jarring if you hadn't watched while it was all happening.)

The Flash has me really excited. I know its a DCU movie so I shouldn't get my hopes up, but seeing Michael Keaton Batman and a Cir-El inspired Supergirl has me really pumped.


Don't forget the upcoming Transformer movie this month.

Damned if it doesn't look amazing.

But at this point we are literally in "Fool Me Seven Times..." territory.

[Bartmanhomer]

Damned if it doesn't look amazing.

But at this point we are literally in "Fool Me Seven Times..." territory.

Well, The Transformers movies never failed me well maybe one Transformer movie that wasn't so great. But the rest was good.

[warty goblin]

Watched it last night. In total I liked it pretty well.

What worked:

The characters were good, and I thought it did a good job of actually propelling them forwards. So many Marvel movies end at the starting point, all the characters emotionally right at the status quo again, it was nice to see one that actually seems to have resolved some issues and moved forward. Also it had some major feels, and for a movie that seems like it should be completely irony soaked ended up pretty sincere.

A fair amount of the humor landed for me. The movies didn't just have quips, but actual jokes.

A fair bit of the action was very much on point.


What didn't

The plot is a vaguely connected mess. Don't think about it.

Thing was too damn long. It didn't feel flabby, though a couple of the action scenes just did not end, but I was extremely ready for the credits by the end. Pare like 10 minutes off and the movie is way better.

The villain was, inevitably, undercooked. Some of this ties in with the plot (don't think about it) but I'm very bored with bad guys whose motivation is "change things, but evil"


Overall I'd say 7.5/10. The emotional beats that land work pretty well, it's got some inventive and fun action bits, but the length and the sloppy mess that is the plot kinda weigh it down.

[Tyndmyr]

This was, all in all, pretty good. Honestly the most enjoyable MCU film in a good while.

[Psyren]

I thought they nailed the High Evolutionary's brand of evil quite well. And best of all,

they might not have killed off a great villain immediately this time, unlike nearly every other MCU big bad.

[Sholos]

Cosmo is a good dog!

[Zevox]

Saw it tonight. The Guardians continue their trend of being the best thing that Marvel makes. Definitely the best Marvel film since at least Thor: Ragnarok. I might actually like it more than the first two Guardians films - think I need to rewatch them, and probably see this a second time, to be sure how I feel about that - which would make it the best Marvel film period, to me. So yeah, suffice to say I liked it a lot.

It's a pretty high compliment that Rocket's backstory and the handling of it reminded of Labrys' from Persona 4 Arena. Once you see the gist of what's going on with it, you know where it's going; it's not going to surprise you in any way. But despite that, it is executed so well that everything hits home anyway. Labrys' maybe had a bit more impact to it for me due to a particular moment that Rocket's didn't have an equivalent to, but still, anything that can remind me so much of something that great deserves major kudos.

It also worked quite well that this villain is just the sort that you love to hate. Everyone else gets to do the comedy, but he's just a complete slimeball with no redeeming qualities that makes you hate him in basically every scene he's in, so you want to see him get his comeuppance, and it is then very satisfying when he does. That honestly worked out better as a villain for the Guardians than Ronan or Ego did, I feel.

I also liked how they handled Gamora. The original's death feels meaningful, and this one is definitively a different person, as she should be. There's hints at the end that it's not impossible she could end up with feelings for Peter too, which also makes sense given she is still Gamora, but it's unlikely because they just haven't had the journey together that Peter and the original Gamora did, and this Gamora wants a different life that doesn't involve hanging around with the Guardians, and Peter ultimately needs to accept that and move on. Very good.

I can really only think of two criticisms. One is that Adam Warlock felt pretty superfluous. Outside of injuring Rocket at the start, which any goon of the High Evolutionary's could in theory have done instead, he's just kind of there, he doesn't do anything too important. Well, saving Quill when he gets spaced I suppose, but that scene was itself pretty superfluous, so eh. Yet this doesn't really bother me because everyone important was handled so well that one superfluous character getting a small-to-moderate amount of screen time just isn't that big of a deal.

The other is that there was not enough Cosmo. Yeah, one of these criticisms is more important than the other.

I do find myself very curious about their future plans at this point. The ending very much had the feeling of being a sendoff to the Guardians, that this would be the last of their films - and if it was, I'd be perfectly happy with that, it's a great ending for them. But then the credits scenes have that glimpse of Rocket's Guardians (including Cosmo!), and the message that Peter will return, so that leaves me unsure. Are we going to get Guardians movies with Rocket's new team? Is Peter doing something solo, or just cameos in other Marvel movies/a role in the future Avengers movies? I won't say no those things, though I do wonder if it might be best to let the team end here, on this very high note that feels like an appropriate ending.

[LaZodiac]

I still need to see Black Panther 2 and Quantumanium, but I decided to jump to the Holiday Special/Volume 3 double feature.

Best Marvel film hands down, imho. Excellent film from beginning to the end.

It speaks to how much Rocket's character growth that he doesn't plug the High Evolutionary in the face with a shotgun. I'm proud of him, even if I was screaming for blood. I do genuinely think this guy is on par with The Purple Man as far as MCU villains go, which is a LOT. The fact that this is technically the first time Rocket uses his full comic book title is also really funny, as an aside.

As someone who loves Nebula, Drax, Mantis, and Rocket, this film was basically made for me. Thank you James Gun.

The only negative I really have is what others have said, about wanting more from certain characters; but "the film left me wanting more, but still satisfied" is a good place to be.

[Psyren]

I agree that they really didn't know what to do with AW.

If they continue on with the new team for space shenanigans, the best use I can see is them running into the Eternals at some point.

[Ionathus]

Without spoiling too much, is GotG III..."smarmy" like its predecessors?

I'm so burnt out on "MCU dialogue" that I just haven't gone back to anything since Endgame (which wrapped up most of what I still cared about). Thor IV had been tempting me back in, but some friends warned me away saying that Waititi was given a little too much free rein and undercut the movie with too many gags/lampshades. I don't think I have much interest in movies that don't feel, for lack of a better word, genuine.

[warty goblin]

Both me and my girlfriend (who likes Marvel a lot more than me, but has generally not cared very much about anything post Endgame) found Love and Thunder painfully unwatchable. Not just eh, but turn it off and make the smarm stop levels of actually bad. I'd say you are 100% justified in avoiding it.

We both liked GotG 3 pretty well. It's still got some smarm, but a lot less, and it generally has proper jokes with setups and punchlines and everything instead of just ironic quips. Really it's a surprisingly genuine and heartfelt movie.

[Psyren]

Without spoiling too much, is GotG III..."smarmy" like its predecessors?

I'm so burnt out on "MCU dialogue" that I just haven't gone back to anything since Endgame (which wrapped up most of what I still cared about). Thor IV had been tempting me back in, but some friends warned me away saying that Waititi was given a little too much free rein and undercut the movie with too many gags/lampshades. I don't think I have much interest in movies that don't feel, for lack of a better word, genuine.

I mean, if you're asking if its quippy... it's Guardians of the Galaxy, of course it's quippy, they practically cemented that style. They're the MCU's Firefly after all.

But like Firefly, the tone can turn on a dime to pathos and even horror.

[Peelee]

it's Guardians of the Galaxy, of course it's quippy, they practically cemented that style.

Did you mean to say GotG there instead of "anything in the MCU"? :smalltongue:

[GloatingSwine]

Thing about Guardians of the Galaxy is that the jokes aren't like the ones in a lot of the rest of the MCU.

In Guardians the characters are joking with each other, not at the audience.

[Peelee]

Thing about Guardians of the Galaxy is that the jokes aren't like the ones in a lot of the rest of the MCU.

In Guardians the characters are joking with each other, not at the audience.

Having only seen phase 1 of MCU (I assume, if the first Guardians is that one), i respectfully disagree. The jokes are the same. Joking with each other is a massive party of why I stopped watching, everyone is always joking with each other all the damn time to the point that out undercuts any tension that the plot tries to build up. Maybe other phases got better at that.

[GloatingSwine]

Having only seen phase 1 of MCU (I assume, if the first Guardians is that one), i respectfully disagree. The jokes are the same. Joking with each other is a massive party of why I stopped watching, everyone is always joking with each other all the damn time to the point that out undercuts any tension that the plot tries to build up. Maybe other phases got better at that.

They're not though.

In most of the movies the jokes and quips are not for, with, or at the expense of a character in the scene. They're quippy dialogue abstracted from context because they exist only between the writer and the audience. This is why everyone's started to notice and dislike this form of dialogue, because it pulls them out of the scene.

About the only other character who escapes it is Spider-Man (in Homecoming and Far From Home) where it's obvious that he's doing it specifically to dispel the tension for himself as a coping mechanism.

The difference is that in general in Guardians other characters react, the joke was present in the room with the characters, not just with the audience.

[Peelee]

They're not though.

In most of the movies the jokes and quips are not for, with, or at the expense of a character in the scene. They're quippy dialogue abstracted from context because they exist only between the writer and the audience. This is why everyone's started to notice and dislike this form of dialogue, because it pulls them out of the scene.

About the only other character who escapes it is Spider-Man (in Homecoming and Far From Home) where it's obvious that he's doing it specifically to dispel the tension for himself as a coping mechanism.

The difference is that in general in Guardians other characters react, the joke was present in the room with the characters, not just with the audience.

They are, though.

Virginia 'Pepper' Potts: I don't think you could tie your shoes without me.

Tony Stark: I'd make it a week.

Virginia 'Pepper' Potts: A week, really? What's your social security number?

Tony Stark: [he pauses]

Tony Stark: Five....

Loki: The Chitauri are coming. Nothing will change that. What have I to fear?

Tony Stark: The Avengers. That's what we call ourselves; we're sort of like a team. "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" type thing.

Loki: Yes, I've met them.

Tony Stark: Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one.

Natasha Romanoff: Tell me about the shooter.

Steve Rogers: He's fast. Strong. Had a metal arm

Natasha Romanoff: Thor, report on the Hulk.

Thor: The gates of Hel are filled with the screams of his victims!

[Natasha glares at him while Bruce groans and puts his head in his hands]

Thor: But not the screams of the dead, of course. No, no... wounded screams... mainly whimpering, a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids and... gout.

Scott Lang: My days of breaking into places and stealing **** are over! What do you need me to do?

Hank Pym: ...I want you to break into a place and steal some ****.

Scott Lang: ...makes sense.

Agent Garrett: [about Thor's Asgard buddies] Is there a Renaissance Fair in town?

Agent Jackson: Call it in.

Agent Garrett: Yeah. Uh, base, we've got, uh, Xena, Jackie Chan, and Robin Hood.

Baron Mordo: [bursting in] Stop! Tampering with continuum probabilities is forbidden!

Dr. Stephen Strange: I-I-I was just doing exactly what it said in the book!

Wong: And what did the book say about the dangers of performing that ritual?

Dr. Stephen Strange: I don't know, I hadn't gotten to that part yet.

Baron Mordo: Temporal manipulations can create branches in time. Unstable dimensional openings. Spatial paradoxes! Time loops! You wanna get stuck reliving the same moment over and over forever or never having existed at all?

Dr. Stephen Strange: They really should put the warnings before this spell

M'Baku: If you say one more word, I'll feed you to my children!

[Ross shuts up, beat]

M'Baku: I'm kidding. We're vegetarians.

Ant-Man: [internally damaging the Iron Man suit] Oh, you're going to have to take this to the shop.

Iron Man: Who's speaking?

Ant-Man: It's your conscience. We don't talk a lot these days.

Maria Rambeau: You call me 'young lady' again, I'll shove my foot up somewhere it's not supposed to be.

[awkward silence]

Talos: Am I supposed to guess where that is?

Nick Fury , Carol Danvers: Your ass

Eitri: You understand, boy, you're about to take the full force of a star. It'll kill you.

Thor: Only if I die.

Eitri: Yes. That's what... killing you means.

Jimmy Woo: You got away with it this time, Scott, but I'll be seeing you again.

Scott Lang: Where?

Jimmy Woo: Huh?

Scott Lang: Where will you be seeing me again?

Jimmy Woo: Like, in general I'll see, like, the next time you... do something bad I'll be there...

Scott Lang: Oh.

Jimmy Woo: ...to catch you.

Scott Lang: You'll be watching and...

Jimmy Woo: Yeah.

Scott Lang: I thought you were inviting me somewhere.

Jimmy Woo: Why would I do that?

Scott Lang: That's what I was wondering. Why would you do that? I...

Jimmy Woo: Like a party? Or dinner or something?

Scott Lang: I don't know, I thought you were...

Jimmy Woo: No, I meant...

Scott Lang: ...planning the evening.

Jimmy Woo: No, I meant to, like, arrest you.

Scott Lang: No, that'd be a little strange.

Jimmy Woo: Like, I'll arrest you later again.

Scott Lang: Take it easy.

Jimmy Woo: Okay.

[turns to leave then turns back to Scott]

Jimmy Woo: Did you want to grab dinner or something? Because, I mean -

[Scott shakes his head no]

Jimmy Woo: Because I'm free...

James Rhodes: If we can do this, you know, go back in time... why don't we just find baby Thanos, you know, and...

[Pantomimes strangulation]

Hulk: Okay, first of all, that's horrible.

James Rhodes: It's Thanos!

Hulk: And secondly, time doesn't work that way. Changing the past doesn't change the future.

Scott Lang: We go back, we get the stones before Thanos gets them, Thanos doesn't have the stones! Problem solved!

Clint Barton: Bingo.

Nebula: That's not how it works!

Clint Barton: Well, that's what I heard.

Hulk: Who told you that?

James Rhodes: Star Trek, Terminator, Timecop, Time After Time...

Scott Lang: Quantum Leap?

James Rhodes: A Wrinkle in Time, Somewhere in Time...

Scott Lang: Hot Tub Time Machine?

James Rhodes: Hot Tub Time Machine, Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, basically any movie that deals with time travel!

Scott Lang: Die Hard? No, that's not one...

James Rhodes: Look, this is known!

Hulk: I don't know why everyone believes that, but that isn't true. Think about it. If you go into the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future!

Nebula: Exactly!

Scott Lang: So, "Back to the Future"'s a bunch of bull****?
https://media.tenor.com/WAQ-f6mj70MAAAAC/toby-the.gif

[LaZodiac]

They are, though.













https://media.tenor.com/WAQ-f6mj70MAAAAC/toby-the.gif

A couple of these aren't quips they're just, conversations characters had, and a lot of them are fairly funny imho. The exchange between Steve and Natasha RE the Winter Soldier isn't quippy it's just a straight up two sentence conversation, and Agent Woo attempted threat seguing into awkward flirting because Scott has a dry wit is an absolute killer of a scene. While people talk about how all the character writing in these films is "same-y" I beg to differ, because each of these lines do characterize the person saying them, and I don't imagine others would say stuff similarly. Thor's bravado is ancient, inbuilt, and befits his norse god feel, where Stark's self aggrandizing ego comes across as the insecure shield that it is.

But hey, to each their own!

[Peelee]

A couple of these aren't quips they're just, conversations characters had, and a lot of them are fairly funny imho. The exchange between Steve and Natasha RE the Winter Soldier isn't quippy it's just a straight up two sentence conversation, and Agent Woo attempted threat seguing into awkward flirting because Scott has a dry wit is an absolute killer of a scene. While people talk about how all the character writing in these films is "same-y" I beg to differ, because each of these lines do characterize the person saying them, and I don't imagine others would say stuff similarly. Thor's bravado is ancient, inbuilt, and befits his norse god feel, where Stark's self aggrandizing ego comes across as the insecure shield that it is.

But hey, to each their own!

I'm not saying they're not funny. I'm saying they're exactly the same kind of dialogue as in GotG. The claim was made that GotG dialogue is different because the characters joke around with each other with them being able to recognize joking lines, but thats not unique for GotG, its true of all MCU movies. They all make quips and jokes at all times which makes characters seem interchangeable. Replace any of the characters in those lines with GotG characters and it fits pretty much the same. The vast majority of the lines could have been delivered by Starlord, eg "He's fast. Strong. Had a metal arm." "But not the screams of the dead, of course. No, no... wounded screams... mainly whimpering, a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids and... gout." *[Guardians of the Galaxy]. That's what we call ourselves; we're sort of like a team. "[Universe]'s Mightiest Heroes" type thing. Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one." There, that's Rogers, Thor, ane Tony Stark, all saying lines you claim characterizes them and all of which could seamlessly be delivered by Starlord in the same situation. The characters do have defining traits that separate themselves from each other, thats absolutely true, but the Marvel Humlr quips aint that. They're lines that any character has rhat could be said by virtually any other character. The only real bucks to this are T'Challa, Steve Rogers and Thor, who have the strongest senses of "well this character would never say that", and by Ragnarok even Thor gets knocked out of that group and into the "literally any other MCU hero in this situation could say this joke and it sounds perfectly in line with that character".

ETA: Which is why i made the (supposed to be one-and-done and not thread-hijacky) joke:

it's Guardians of the Galaxy, of course it's quippy, they practically cemented that style.

Did you mean to say GotG there instead of "anything in the MCU"? :smalltongue:

[Keltest]

I'm not saying they're not funny. I'm saying they're exactly the same kind of dialogue as in GotG. The claim was made that GotG dialogue is different because the characters joke around with each other with them being able to recognize joking lines, but thats not unique for GotG, its true of all MCU movies. They all make quips and jokes at all times which makes characters seem interchangeable. Replace any of the characters in those lines with GotG characters and it fits pretty much the same. The vast majority of the lines could have been delivered by Starlord, eg "He's fast. Strong. Had a metal arm." "But not the screams of the dead, of course. No, no... wounded screams... mainly whimpering, a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids and... gout." *[Guardians of the Galaxy]. That's what we call ourselves; we're sort of like a team. "[Universe]'s Mightiest Heroes" type thing. Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one." There, that's Rogers, Thor, ane Tony Stark, all saying lines you claim characterizes them and all of which could seamlessly be delivered by Starlord in the same situation. The characters do have defining traits that separate themselves from each other, thats absolutely true, but the Marvel Humlr quips aint that. They're lines that any character has rhat could be said by virtually any other character. The only real bucks to this are T'Challa, Steve Rogers and Thor, who have the strongest senses of "well this character would never say that", and by Ragnarok even Thor gets knocked out of that group and into the "literally any other MCU hero in this situation could say this joke and it sounds perfectly in line with that character".

ETA: Which is why i made the (supposed to be one-and-done and not thread-hijacky) joke:


But thats, like, your opinion man. Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the difference between one of your jokes and a joke I cracked, ever? That all people with a slightly wry sense of humor are basically interchangeable?

[Peelee]

But thats, like, your opinion man. Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the difference between one of your jokes and a joke I cracked, ever? That all people with a slightly wry sense of humor are basically interchangeable?

Im telling you that writers who define characters through dialogue write the characters to have effectively interchangeable dialogue. Batman, Superman, and The Flash would have vastly different jokes. They would react differently, you cant take lines from one and substitute another character into that scenario and have the joke still work perfectly. MCU Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and Starlord have the exact same jokes. They're perfectly interchangeable if they were in the others scenarios.

Sure, in the real world you and i could make identical jokes. We're not movie characters who are supposed to be written to have unique personalities. Real people can and do have large similarities like that. Movie characters should not be "star lord but rich and a genius" or "star lord but smart and can do magic" or "star lord but a suited up professional agent of shield". Thats poor writing. Take Futurama, none Benders jokes work for Zoidberg, you cant have Hermes deliver jokes written for Farnsworth, they all have their own distinct characters. Meanwhile thr majority of MCU characters make sarcastic quips that are largely perfectly interchangeable with the biggesr difference being that, for example, Peter Parker does it slightly more often.

[Keltest]

Im telling you that writers who define characters through dialogue write the characters to have effectively interchangeable dialogue. Batman, Superman, and The Flash would have vastly different jokes. They would react differently, you cant take lines from one and substitute another character into that scenario and have the joke still work perfectly. MCU Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and Starlord have the exact same jokes. They're perfectly interchangeable if they were in the others scenarios.

Sure, in the real world you and i could make identical jokes. We're not movie characters who are supposed to be written to have unique personalities. Real people can and do have large similarities like that. Movie characters should not be "star lord but rich and a genius" or "star lord but smart and can do magic" or "star lord but a suited up professional agent of shield". Thats poor writing. Take Futurama, none Benders jokes work for Zoidberg, you cant have Hermes deliver jokes written for Farnsworth, they all have their own distinct characters. Meanwhile thr majority of MCU characters make sarcastic quips that are largely perfectly interchangeable with the biggesr difference being that, for example, Peter Parker does it slightly more often.

Being witty is a character trait. Its not their only character trait, or even their defining one. And indeed, you seem to have mistaken some instances of completely straight and literal dialogue for an attempt at cracking a joke. So I agree, they shouldn't be, and they aren't.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not saying they're not funny. I'm saying they're exactly the same kind of dialogue as in GotG. The claim was made that GotG dialogue is different because the characters joke around with each other with them being able to recognize joking lines, but thats not unique for GotG, its true of all MCU movies. They all make quips and jokes at all times which makes characters seem interchangeable. Replace any of the characters in those lines with GotG characters and it fits pretty much the same. The vast majority of the lines could have been delivered by Starlord, eg "He's fast. Strong. Had a metal arm." "But not the screams of the dead, of course. No, no... wounded screams... mainly whimpering, a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids and... gout." *[Guardians of the Galaxy]. That's what we call ourselves; we're sort of like a team. "[Universe]'s Mightiest Heroes" type thing. Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one." There, that's Rogers, Thor, ane Tony Stark, all saying lines you claim characterizes them and all of which could seamlessly be delivered by Starlord in the same situation. The characters do have defining traits that separate themselves from each other, thats absolutely true, but the Marvel Humlr quips aint that. They're lines that any character has rhat could be said by virtually any other character. The only real bucks to this are T'Challa, Steve Rogers and Thor, who have the strongest senses of "well this character would never say that", and by Ragnarok even Thor gets knocked out of that group and into the "literally any other MCU hero in this situation could say this joke and it sounds perfectly in line with that character".

ETA: Which is why i made the (supposed to be one-and-done and not thread-hijacky) joke:

When Steve gives that description for the Winter Soldier, it's not... intended to be a joke? That's literally describing the guy, that's what Steve is doing. Starlord is a bit of a whiny pissbaby so he'd probably complain more about it- maybe make an allusion to Rocket's propensity for stealing robotic limbs. He'd also never say that Thor line, he's to undignified to use "of course" in that style, nor would he use "a great deal". It wouldn't sound right.

To use the actual film this thread is for as an example: Starlord calling him a stretch faced Robocop looking purple nurple piece of **** is a uniquely "Peter is **** at insulting people" thing. Tony Stark delivering the line wouldn't work because he's not as vulgar, and not as insecure or lacking in confidence. He'd probably call him a psychotic hack with a bad face-lift.

[Peelee]

Being witty is a character trait. Its not their only character trait, or even their defining one. And indeed, you seem to have mistaken some instances of completely straight and literal dialogue for an attempt at cracking a joke. So I agree, they shouldn't be, and they aren't.

Chandler Bing is witty. Jack Sparrow is witty. Gregory House is witty. You'll note that those characters are all witty but none of them could delivery lines written for the others without sounding wildly out of character. "Being witty" is not bad. "Sounding exactly like a dozen other characters in the same franchise" is bad. I don't care that they're witty, I care that they're witty in the exact same way, constantly. I care that Dr. Strange just sounds like Iron Man with a medical degree. If Marvel wants to introduce a plethora of characters, then that's all fine and dandy but they should actually have a plethora of characters, not a large handful of the same character but with a different job and powers to tell them apart.

And if i have mistaken any straightforward dialogue as a joke (the only examole i can think of is Captain America, but cmon, "normal thing normal thing wildly unique thing that should clearly be the most important identifier" is clearly written as a joke), then its not probably because i haven't seen the movie, but please, tell me what was just normal conversation so i can adjust.

When Steve gives that description for the Winter Soldier, it's not... intended to be a joke? That's literally describing the guy, that's what Steve is doing. Starlord is a bit of a whiny pissbaby so he'd probably complain more about it- maybe make an allusion to Rocket's propensity for stealing robotic limbs. He'd also never say that Thor line, he's to undignified to use "of course" in that style, nor would he use "a great deal". It wouldn't sound right.

To use the actual film this thread is for as an example: Starlord calling him a stretch faced Robocop looking purple nurple piece of **** is a uniquely "Peter is **** at insulting people" thing. Tony Stark delivering the line wouldn't work because he's not as vulgar, and not as insecure or lacking in confidence. He'd probably call him a psychotic hack with a bad face-lift.
See above. He was asked to describe a bionic man. The first two words are fast and strong. Congrats, he just described a dozen people in my local gym. Then, third, metal arm. That's clearly written as a joke, in the vein of "murder, kidnapping, and jaywalking". Are you telling me nobody laughed at that line in the theater?

[Keltest]

See above. He was asked to describe a bionic man. The first two words are fast and strong. Congrats, he just described a dozen people in my local gym. Then, third, metal arm. That's clearly written as a joke, in the vein of "murder, kidnapping, and jaywalking". Are you telling me nobody laughed at that line in the theater?

A line can be funny without being a joke Peelee. But also, its still a completely literal and actually informative description, because unlike, say, Iron Man, the arm isnt where all the power comes from. What exactly would YOU say are the Winter Soldier's important combat traits?

As an aside, I could absolutely see Jack Sparrow delivering plenty of House's lines. Maybe not the reverse, because as far as I know House never goes out into the situations that prompt Sparrow's lines in the first place, but thats a matter of circumstance, not character.

[LaZodiac]

Chandler Bing is witty. Jack Sparrow is witty. Gregory House is witty. You'll note that those characters are all witty but none of them could delivery lines written for the others without sounding wildly out of character. "Being witty" is not bad. "Sounding exactly like a dozen other characters in the same franchise" is bad. I don't care that they're witty, I care that they're witty in the exact same way, constantly. I care that Dr. Strange just sounds like Iron Man with a medical degree. If Marvel wants to introduce a plethora of characters, then that's all fine and dandy but they should actually have a plethora of characters, not a large handful of the same character but with a different job and powers to tell them apart.

And if i have mistaken any straightforward dialogue as a joke (the only examole i can think of is Captain America, but cmon, "normal thing normal thing wildly unique thing that should clearly be the most important identifier" is clearly written as a joke), then its not probably because i haven't seen the movie, but please, tell me what was just normal conversation so i can adjust.

See above. He was asked to describe a bionic man. The first two words are fast and strong. Congrats, he just described a dozen people in my local gym. Then, third, metal arm. That's clearly written as a joke, in the vein of "murder, kidnapping, and jaywalking". Are you telling me nobody laughed at that line in the theater?

I'll concede some of Strange's dialogue feels like Tony Stark, but that's because they're basically the same character in terms of vibe anyway. Starlord feels nothing like them.

While it certainly can be read as a joke, there's nothing all that weird about people having artificial arms, especially in their line of work. If anything the humour comes from Steve being so matter of fact about it and not making it a big deal.

[Peelee]

A line can be funny without being a joke Peelee. But also, its still a completely literal and actually informative description, because unlike, say, Iron Man, the arm isnt where all the power comes from. What exactly would YOU say are the Winter Soldier's important combat traits?
He was asked to describe the shooter. Hated the movie and don't remember it well, so i fant remember the context and YouTube is failing. But "fast, strong" describe most of thr villains they seem to face so i wouls just go ahead and figure those are assumed, and regardless if she's asking for identifiers or tactical traits, i would guaranteed leas with "bionic", because, well, "bionic arm". Itd be like asking to describe Falcon and starting with "veteran, black, can fly around on giant ****ing bionic wings". That third one not only should be first, but is probably all you really need among those three.

As an aside, I could absolutely see Jack Sparrow delivering plenty of House's lines.
I disagree. Hell, i can't even see Gay Perry from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and House delivering each other's lines without sounding off, and they're pretty similar characters.

[Keltest]

He was asked to describe the shooter. Hated the movie and don't remember it well, so i fant remember the context and YouTube is failing. But "fast, strong" describe most of thr villains they seem to face so i wouls just go ahead and figure those are assumed, and regardless if she's asking for identifiers or tactical traits, i would guaranteed leas with "bionic", because, well, "bionic arm". Itd be like asking to describe Falcon and starting with "veteran, black, can fly around on giant ****ing bionic wings". That third one not only should be first, but is probably all you really need among those three.

Yes, fast and strong as opposed to, for example, "had a suit of power armor" or "had some kind of electric aura that kept me from touching him" or "Was made of fire" or "Was a giant green rage monster" or "had a gun that could turn people into gold" or "he had some kind of magic barrier he kept blocking me with."

Him being a martial artist is meaningful information Peelee. Its not intended to isolate him in a crowd, its a tactical assessment.

[Peelee]

Yes, fast and strong as opposed to, for example, "had a suit of power armor" or "had some kind of electric aura that kept me from touching him" or "Was made of fire" or "Was a giant green rage monster" or "had a gun that could turn people into gold" or "he had some kind of magic barrier he kept blocking me with."

Him being a martial artist is meaningful information Peelee. Its not intended to isolate him in a crowd, its a tactical assessment.

All of tje things you mention are as opposed to a bionic arm. Iron Man is fast and strong. Hulk is fast and strong. Thor is fast and strong. Hell, Natasha is fast and strong. "Fast and strong" isnt "martial artist" i agree, martial artist is meaningful information, and as such would have been good info to give. It wasn't given. Instead, two descriptors that apply to half the named characters in MCU are the leads, with "metal arm" the single most readily defining difference between Winter Soldier and every other character out there, trails. Again, this is a play off "murder, kidnapping, and jaywalking." Its not only a joke, it's an old joke. If Starlord had met Winter Soldier, it's immediately believable that he'd say this line. Lenny from Law and Order, much beloved for his wit? Not so much.

[Keltest]

All of tje things you mention are as opposed to a bionic arm. Iron Man is fast and strong. Hulk is fast and strong. Thor is fast and strong. Hell, Natasha is fast and strong. "Fast and strong" isnt "martial artist" i agree, martial artist is meaningful information, and as such would have been good info to give. It wasn't given. Instead, two descriptors that apply to half the named characters in MCU are the leads, with "metal arm" the single most readily defining difference between Winter Soldier and every other character out there, trails. Again, this is a play off "murder, kidnapping, and jaywalking." Its not only a joke, it's an old joke. If Starlord had met Winter Soldier, it's immediately believable that he'd say this line. Lenny from Law and Order, much beloved for his wit? Not so much.

Iron man isnt fast and strong, he's just a guy under the armor. Saying Hulk is "fast and strong" is sort of like saying that lung cancer isn't great for your health. Thor is indeed fast and strong without any gimmicks to cause that, and its an important assessment.

And Starlord would never say that line, at least not the way Steve did. If Quill were to say those words, it would be quick and dismissive of the importance of describing him, or in frustration at not knowing anything, and the delivery would be done accordingly, because Quill is a whiner and the joke there would be that he's whining.

[Peelee]

Iron man isnt fast and strong, he's just a guy under the armor. Saying Hulk is "fast and strong" is sort of like saying that lung cancer isn't great for your health. Thor is indeed fast and strong without any gimmicks to cause that, and its an important assessment.

And Starlord would never say that line, at least not the way Steve did. If Quill were to say those words, it would be quick and dismissive of the importance of describing him, or in frustration at not knowing anything, and the delivery would be done accordingly, because Quill is a whiner and the joke there would be that he's whining.

Oh cmon man. I even said "iron man" instead of "tony stark", as I've referred to him constantly so far, to specifically all out the armored hero. Just like Bucky isnt fast and strong, he's just a guy who was brainwashed and trained and fitted with cybernetic limb and kept young from magic or whatever i stopped caring in that movie

Also, you're moving the goalposts. Is "martial artist" no longer a useful assessment? If it is, why didn't he say that? Nearly all the heroes and villains are fast and strong, why is that tactically useful? Wouldn't "expert marksman, martial artist, metal arm" be more useful? You know, information that doesnt apply to everyone and their moms in MCU? Surely "martial artist", since you literally argued that is useful information just a couple posts ago.

But no. Cheap joke.

[Dienekes]

Oh cmon man. I even said "iron man" instead of "tony stark", as I've referred to him constantly so far, to specifically all out the armored hero. Just like Bucky isnt fast and strong, he's just a guy who was brainwashed and trained and fitted with cybernetic limb and kept young from magic or whatever i stopped caring in that movie

Also, you're moving the goalposts. Is "martial artist" no longer a useful assessment? If it is, why didn't he say that? Nearly all the heroes and villains are fast and strong, why is that tactically useful? Wouldn't "expert marksman, martial artist, metal arm" be more useful? You know, information that doesnt apply to everyone and their moms in MCU? Surely "martial artist", since you literally argued that is useful information just a couple posts ago.

But no. Cheap joke.

Peelee, he is fast and strong as stated by Steve when compared to normal people. We even get points of him fighting Steve hand to hand and being able to block and trade blows something we see the best trained of SHIELD can’t do. Because he specifically was experimented on to try and recreate Steve’s success. Steve is saying the guy is in part superhuman.

You’re just wrong here.

Also, just generally as a vibe. Having some humor is not a problem, even what most people comment on with the "Marvel voice." Most great works have some points of releasing tension with humor. Hell Schindler's List has humor. Not a lot, but some. Oskar can be snarky.

The problem came about when the humor became specifically designed to undercut points of emotional clarity, often for no gain. I'm always reminded of Dr Strange, where his moment of triumph and acceptance in his position gets turned into a joke with his cape suddenly flicking at his nose. It didn't add anything but a somewhat cheap laugh, it didn't demonstrate any character or relieve any tension because the cape doesn't really have a character. And the main tension of the scene had already broke with Strange taking his stand.

Now, admittedly, Gunn's Guardians did kind of pioneer that. Mostly coming through Rocket. Such as the "We're all standing now." Bit. But, I think that fit his character very well. And at least when Gunn used it, it became a payoff later when something happens that Rocket can't joke about. When he's morning the loss of his friend and we get the scene just of him cradling a twig and Drax going to silently comfort him. Those moments without the expected humor feel stronger. Now Gunn doesn't do it perfectly, always. But generally I find his efforts stronger than basically the same thing done during Thor: Love and Thunder (and even Ragnarok) as well as Ms Marvel and the last Ant-Man.

[Peelee]

Peelee, he is fast and strong as stated by Steve when compared to normal people. We even get points of him fighting Steve hand to hand and being able to block and trade blows something we see the best trained of SHIELD can’t do. Because he specifically was experimented on to try and recreate Steve’s success. Steve is saying the guy is in part superhuman.

You’re just wrong here.

Dude, I'm not saying he wasn't super humanly fast and strong. Im saying that those traits are not unique. Thanos is fast and strong. Red Skull is fast and strong. Abomination is fast and strong. Loki is fast and strong. If there's a villain in MCU, you fan put down money that the villain will be fast and strong, even when compared to normal people, superhumanly fast and strong, and you'll be pretty profitable. If someone isnt fast and strong,ike Jebediah whatever in the first Iron Man? Then they'll find some way to be fast and strong, like getting another Iron Man suit. Of course he's fast and strong. The movie wouldn't be happening if he wasn't. Captain America, himselr already a superhuman, probably wouldn't be giving information on someone who got away if they weren't fast and strong. You can go ahead and assume that because if one is not fast and strong, then pointing out what other traits they have is more important.

Anyway, we're getting lost in the weeds here. My original comment, that the MCU practically cemented the quippy style, is all i really wanted to say.

ETA: To your edit, i pretty much agree with it all, except that i think Iron Man introduced it rather than Guardians. Guardians might have perfected it but the original GotG movie already gave me Marvel Humor vibes from the previous ones.

[warty goblin]

Im telling you that writers who define characters through dialogue write the characters to have effectively interchangeable dialogue. Batman, Superman, and The Flash would have vastly different jokes. They would react differently, you cant take lines from one and substitute another character into that scenario and have the joke still work perfectly. MCU Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and Starlord have the exact same jokes. They're perfectly interchangeable if they were in the others scenarios.



I think a key difference is that GoTG is vastly less in love with Starlord than Iron Man or Dr Strange movies are with their titular characters. So while Quill quips quite similarly to Tony and Strange, the surrounding material gives much more of a "clueless dork overcompensating" vibe than the "wow you are so cool and strong please come my birthday party please please please" feel of the other two.

That right there makes GoTG a lot more fun to watch for me. I mean all the characters are emotionally inept jerks, but GoTG at least knows that, and realizes that you know it too. Like half the time the joke is Quill sucks, not everybody else sucks and only Tony Stark or Strange is smart enough enough of a jackass to point it out.

[Fyraltari]

Just saw it. I think, as far as MCU movies ho my informal decision to only bother with GotG and Spider-Man is validated so far.

It's funny, it has action, it has mostly beliveable stakes, it's pleasing to look at, the pacing is alright, the characters all behave as they would and all get a good amount of spotlight, the plot is serviceable, the villain makes you want to punch him in the face more with every other word out of his mouth and most importantly it has heart.

Is their any surprising twists? No. Did my eye get a little watery at the end? Yeah.

I have a couple of complaints and questions though.
Rocket's near death experience was odd. I don't see how Lylia (that was the mangoose's name right?) would get a concept of religion before her death, so it probably isn't Rocket imagining that. Does that mean heaven is real in the MCU? Also when Rocket despairs at being the High Evolutionary's tool, I feel like a response along the lines of "you can make your own purpose" would have been better than "you can be God's tool instead!" (Paraphrased). Also that the High Evolutionnary's declaring that there is no god and that's where he steps in was the straw that breaks the camel's back for his assistant. I mean, girl, did you not notice his massive god complex before? I feel like those two sudden bursts of religiosity don't really jive with the rest of the movie.

Also, am I the only one feeling bad for the Hellspawns? They were just as much victim of the HE as the rest, but Chewbacthulhu and his gang don't get a redemption unlike Warlock and some of the humanoid guards.

Also, how did the HE know what modern Earth is like if he only went there a long time ago and has built and destroyed hundreds of planets since?

Also, not a criticism since the HE being deluded fool is very much the point of the character, but it is very funny to me that the main bit of his utopia that we see is one of the worst type of city planning ever (car-centric American suburbia).

This might be from the Thor movie that everyone is saying is bad, but was Nebula's arm akways able to do that? And where did the Soviet telekinetic talking good dog come from?

Edit: as for the discussion going on, I can't really explain why, but GotG humor gives me more of a "bunch of goofy friends goofing together" vibe than the "I'm so cool, look at how cool I am" energy of the Iron Man movies. Like I genuinely believe that these people enjoy each other's company and know when to start ribbing and when to stop. For the most part.

[warty goblin]

Rocket's near death experience was odd. I don't see how Lylia (that was the mangoose's name right?) would get a concept of religion before her death, so it probably isn't Rocket imagining that. Does that mean heaven is real in the MCU? Also when Rocket despairs at being the High Evolutionary's tool, I feel like a response along the lines of "you can make your own purpose" would have been better than "you can be God's tool instead!" (Paraphrased). Also that the High Evolutionnary's declaring that there is no god and that's where he steps in was the straw that breaks the camel's back for his assistant. I mean, girl, did you not notice his massive god complex before? I feel like those two sudden bursts of religiosity don't really jive with the rest of the movie.

Also, am I the only one feeling bad for the Hellspawns? They were just as much victim of the HE as the rest, but Chewbacthulhu and his gang don't get a redemption unlike Warlock and some of the humanoid guards.

Also, how did the HE know what modern Earth is like if he only went there a long time ago and has built and destroyed hundreds of planets since?

Also, not a criticism since the HE being deluded fool is very much the point of the character, but it is very funny to me that the main bit of his utopia that we see is one of the worst type of city planning ever (car-centric American suburbia).

This might be from the Thor movie that everyone is saying is bad, but was Nebula's arm akways able to do that? And where did the Soviet telekinetic talking good dog come from?


Like I said, don't think about the plot. No, seriously, don't. It won't work, this isn't a plot movie. It's a character driven action movie where stuff happens, then more stuff happens that mostly relates to the first stuff. But the third stuff that happens really only needs to loosely connect with the second stuff, and can be pretty unrelated to the first stuff. It's sort of like a JJ Abrams movie, except written by somebody who understands how characterization works.

[JNAProductions]

I enjoyed it thoroughly. Was a good time-though not having seen all of Marvel, there were some things that were kinda out of the blue.

[BloodSquirrel]

This will probably be the only phase 5 project that I'll wind up bothering with. I've heard mixed things, so I'll go in with tempered expectations, but I have at least some investment left with these characters. I'm otherwise completely disengaged with the MCU.

[KillianHawkeye]

Why are the other raccoons still babies at the end?

[Fyraltari]

Why are the other raccoons still babies at the end?

New raccoon babies.

[LaZodiac]

Just saw it. I think, as far as MCU movies ho my informal decision to only bother with GotG and Spider-Man is validated so far.

It's funny, it has action, it has mostly beliveable stakes, it's pleasing to look at, the pacing is alright, the characters all behave as they would and all get a good amount of spotlight, the plot is serviceable, the villain makes you want to punch him in the face more with every other word out of his mouth and most importantly it has heart.

Is their any surprising twists? No. Did my eye get a little watery at the end? Yeah.

I have a couple of complaints and questions though.
Rocket's near death experience was odd. I don't see how Lylia (that was the mangoose's name right?) would get a concept of religion before her death, so it probably isn't Rocket imagining that. Does that mean heaven is real in the MCU? Also when Rocket despairs at being the High Evolutionary's tool, I feel like a response along the lines of "you can make your own purpose" would have been better than "you can be God's tool instead!" (Paraphrased). Also that the High Evolutionnary's declaring that there is no god and that's where he steps in was the straw that breaks the camel's back for his assistant. I mean, girl, did you not notice his massive god complex before? I feel like those two sudden bursts of religiosity don't really jive with the rest of the movie.

Also, am I the only one feeling bad for the Hellspawns? They were just as much victim of the HE as the rest, but Chewbacthulhu and his gang don't get a redemption unlike Warlock and some of the humanoid guards.

Also, how did the HE know what modern Earth is like if he only went there a long time ago and has built and destroyed hundreds of planets since?

Also, not a criticism since the HE being deluded fool is very much the point of the character, but it is very funny to me that the main bit of his utopia that we see is one of the worst type of city planning ever (car-centric American suburbia).

This might be from the Thor movie that everyone is saying is bad, but was Nebula's arm akways able to do that? And where did the Soviet telekinetic talking good dog come from?

Edit: as for the discussion going on, I can't really explain why, but GotG humor gives me more of a "bunch of goofy friends goofing together" vibe than the "I'm so cool, look at how cool I am" energy of the Iron Man movies. Like I genuinely believe that these people enjoy each other's company and know when to start ribbing and when to stop. For the most part.

It was shown at the end of Love and Thunder that Valhalla is a real place heroes go when they die. Lila, who I'm very definitely sure is an otter, and the other experiments went to... I wouldn't say Heaven, but some kind of afterlife where they get to fly about the sky all day, which is their idea of personal perfect freedom and paradise, and the idea that these noble, tortured creatures get to go there is comforting, even if it does raise questions of "what was that, beyond just a generalized afterlife for people who deserve happiness?"

I'm not sure what you mean by Rocket choosing to be God's tool. It felt like the film was very leaning on "make your own purpose". As for the Evolutionary's screaming about how he's a God at the end, that was a moment of weakness. Of course the assistant knew he had a god complex, he's an utter freak- but this outburst, this final scream at the world, made it crystal clear that he cannot be reasoned with and they're going to die if they don't kill him. It's kind of a contrast to our heroes; we see each other in our moments of weakness, at our worst moments, but we still pick each other back up, while the High Evolutionary and his ilk are all using each other. I imagine she's thought about shooting him in the back a lot of times, but the job and money were cushy enough.

It is a shame the Hellspawn have to die, and we even see a bit of Rocket feeling bad about it when the first one hits his part of the Bowie. They deserved better, but probably couldn't ever get it...

While we don't know when he showed up on Earth to study it, the long and short of it is that he tried to emulate Humanity, But Better. What he got was Humanity, But Furries. Or more accurately, American Capitalist Society, But Furries. It's meant to be symbolic of certain people who feel they must control the world and so on and so forth. Quite good, biting but not aggressively so. His Utopia's have always been flawed because ultimately he's a ****ty person, and the fact that he felt this was his greatest work is telling.

[Talakeal]

Rocket's near death experience was odd. I don't see how Lylia (that was the mangoose's name right?) would get a concept of religion before her death, so it probably isn't Rocket imagining that. Does that mean heaven is real in the MCU? Also when Rocket despairs at being the High Evolutionary's tool, I feel like a response along the lines of "you can make your own purpose" would have been better than "you can be God's tool instead!" (Paraphrased). Also that the High Evolutionnary's declaring that there is no god and that's where he steps in was the straw that breaks the camel's back for his assistant. I mean, girl, did you not notice his massive god complex before? I feel like those two sudden bursts of religiosity don't really jive with the rest of the movie.

Also, am I the only one feeling bad for the Hellspawns? They were just as much victim of the HE as the rest, but Chewbacthulhu and his gang don't get a redemption unlike Warlock and some of the humanoid guards.

Also, how did the HE know what modern Earth is like if he only went there a long time ago and has built and destroyed hundreds of planets since?

Also, not a criticism since the HE being deluded fool is very much the point of the character, but it is very funny to me that the main bit of his utopia that we see is one of the worst type of city planning ever (car-centric American suburbia).

This might be from the Thor movie that everyone is saying is bad, but was Nebula's arm always able to do that? And where did the Soviet telekinetic talking good dog come from?

We have seen afterlives in Marvel movies before, and in Moon Knight we are explicitly told that there are many afterlives. I might need to pay more attention to the dialogue, but I don't recall any references to a specific God or religion.

Presumably, HE came to Earth in the 1970s as that is the aesthetic of the civilization on counter-Earth, and the tags on the animal crates imply that is when and where he purchased all of his specimens.

IIRC Nebula cut off her Thanos given mechanical arm in GoTG1 and got a fairly janky new one in GoTG 2, which she proceeded to burn up getting the power stones in End Game. She thanks Rocket for the upgrade in GoTG3, so presumably he made / tinkered with a new one for her between movies and turned it into a big gun, like he does everything. I don't recall what arm she had in Love and Thunder and the Holiday special.

Cosmo was in the Collector's museum in GotG 1 and was featured along with Howard the Duck in the post credit sequence. I don't recall if she was in 2 or Infinity War, but she was in the Holiday Special.

[Devlerbat]

It was nice of Gunn to leave all the characters in a position to return as needed in the future and not kill anyone for shock value or closure. I was really disappointed they didn’t introduce Quasar, and then in the post credit scene I realized they did introduce Quasar and I just didn’t notice.

Is that who that was? I thought they said her name was "Violet" but maybe I misheard, and Rocket actually said "Vell"

[Talakeal]

Is that who that was? I thought they said her name was "Violet" but maybe I misheard, and Rocket actually said "Vell"

He said "Phyla".

[Fyraltari]

'm not sure what you mean by Rocket choosing to be God's tool. It felt like the film was very leaning on "make your own purpose"


I might need to pay more attention to the dialogue, but I don't recall any references to a specific God or religion.

I don't remember the exact lines but, when Rocket is freaking out about them being disposable tools to the High Evolutionnary, Lylla replies "There are the hands that made you and the hands that guide those hands" and something about his story not being finished yet. Implying that the High Evolutionnary was the unwitting agent of a higher power creating Rocket Raccoon to fullfill a purpose other than being a stepstone in the HE's moronic plans.

[LaZodiac]

I don't remember the exact lines but, when Rocket is freaking out about them being disposable tools to the High Evolutionnary, Lylla replies "There are the hands that made you and the hands that guide those hands" and something about his story not being finished yet. Implying that the High Evolutionnary was the unwitting agent of a higher power creating Rocket Raccoon to fullfill a purpose other than being a stepstone in the HE's moronic plans.

I sorta read that as like, guiding your own hands, or being guided by your friends, personally.

[Tyndmyr]

This might be from the Thor movie that everyone is saying is bad, but was Nebula's arm akways able to do that? And where did the Soviet telekinetic talking good dog come from?

Unspoilering because if it happens in the first couple minutes, another movie or the trailer, it's not really a spoiler, yknow?

Tony is seen helping Nebula fix her arm up on the spaceship in Endgame. Presumably any upgrades happened then, or between films.

Cosmo(the dog) was previously revealed in the post credits scene of GotG 2.

[Wintermoot]

Unspoilering because if it happens in the first couple minutes, another movie or the trailer, it's not really a spoiler, yknow?

Tony is seen helping Nebula fix her arm up on the spaceship in Endgame. Presumably any upgrades happened then, or between films.

Cosmo(the dog) was previously revealed in the post credits scene of GotG 2.


There's a blink and you'll miss it line in the movie where Nebula refers to Rocket as the person who upgraded her arm. Presumably in the 6 years the two of them were together when everyone else blipped out of existence.

Cosmo was first seen in GotG 1, when she was in the Collector's menagerie. She's been around, just as a background element.

[JadedDM]

Cosmo was also in the Holiday Special.

[KillianHawkeye]

I sorta read that as like, guiding your own hands, or being guided by your friends, personally.

I agree, this was my interpretation as well. All the choices Rocket made in his life were for his various found families.

[Palanan]

I just watched Quantumania, and my gawd was that a steaming pile of awful.

How does Guardians 3 compare to Quantumania? Because after Quantumania I’m just about ready to give up on the MCU altogether.

[Talakeal]

I just watched Quantumania, and my gawd was that a steaming pile of awful.

How does Guardians 3 compare to Quantumania? Because after Quantumania I’m just about ready to give up on the MCU altogether.

Far better.

I didn’t hate Quantumania, but it was dissapointing. Guardians 3 is easily the best MCU since Infinity War.

Ofc, if you are someone who loved Antman 1 and hated GotG 1, you might feel different.

[Ramza00]

See above. He was asked to describe a bionic man. The first two words are fast and strong. Congrats, he just described a dozen people in my local gym. Then, third, metal arm. That's clearly written as a joke, in the vein of "murder, kidnapping, and jaywalking". Are you telling me nobody laughed at that line in the theater?

You just did the rule of three, which is common form of "slip" (I am not going to use the word joke for there are many types of slip but jokes are slips)

3 is the minimum number to establish a pattern but not the number to do a sequence (which is two), thus the third thing can deviate enough that our brains notice it was not the sequence we were expecting to be next even if its still a valid sequence.

Like me counting 1, 2, 3 or 1, 2, 4 both are valid and easily recognizable patterns but I defined one of these as a slip for my mental circuitry expects one of the patterns and then the other occurred.

Listening to music and not being bored is another type of slip. We expect the next note and when it is slightly off from what we expect we enjoy (or are annoyed.) Likewise the flow state with playing video games is a slip for the flow state is a mixture of the right amount of arousal level (often medium to high challenge) with the right amount of difficulty and matching these two together that triggers flow. Of course part of the enjoyment of this slip this flow is that it does not work 100% of the time, but you need to be batting 80% or higher. I am sorry the MCU slips are sub 80% with you :smallsmile:

=====

Segue but me wishing something in the MCU in the future. I have not seen the Star Wars cartoons, but I was told that supposedly in one of the Legend books it was explained that one of the characters uses banter in order to feel in control of a situation. That said character flirts with Obi Wan for getting the last word helps them manage arousal and fear, likewise it keeps the character occupied and can surprise people.

One type of action hero stuff I like and I wish there was more of is the action hero feeling week and vulnerable, uses jokes to distract themself, and then do things that surprise the audience. Like Die Hard 1 where John McClane is trying to figure out how to problem solve being in a death trap and how can he kill some terrorists with rube goldberg traps and surprises. Can we get some of this in the MCU?

A hero who is an everyman but also punches above their power weight?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Talakeal
Ofc, if you are someone who loved Antman 1 and hated GotG 1, you might feel different.

I managed to enjoy the first Ant-Man because I watched it when I was sick and my brain wasn’t up to much. Very bland origin story made palatable by Paul Rudd and the X-Con guys. Didn’t love it, tolerated it.

I did love Ant-Man and the Wasp, which is one of my favorite MCU movies. It has everything Quantumania doesn’t: goofy fun, quirky humor, intriguing villain, hilarious action and a great soundtrack to sell it all.

On the flip side, I did really hate the first Guardians movie, which is why I’m hesitant here. Not sure if even a certain shiny cameo would be enough for me to like Guardians 3.

[KillianHawkeye]

shiny

If this word implies who I think it does, his appearance is a bit more than a typical cameo.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye
If this word implies who I think it does....

I mean to say. :smalltongue:

Does the BDH quotient help offset the overall guardian-ness?

.

[KillianHawkeye]

Does the BDH quotient help offset the overall guardian-ness?

Big Damn Heroes? :smallconfused:

This film actually felt like less of that, as the conflict was more personal and less galaxy guardianing.


EDIT: And now I wish there was a show on Space HGTV called Gardeners of the Galaxy...


EDIT 2: Oh yeah, I just rewatched Ant-Man 3 now that it's on D+, and I would say that Guardians 3 comparison is more strongly emotional, about as much action (but better, more Avengers-like), and more seriousness overall. GotG3 deals with more serious tone and issues than Ant-Man. The stakes feel higher even though they actually aren't, because of the character portrayals.

This film has the GotG comedy style, but is the most serious and heart-felt film of the trilogy by far.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye
...I would say that Guardians 3 comparison is more strongly emotional, about as much action (but better, more Avengers-like), and more seriousness overall. GotG3 deals with more serious tone and issues than Ant-Man. The stakes feel higher even though they actually aren't, because of the character portrayals.

This film has the GotG comedy style, but is the most serious and heart-felt film of the trilogy by far.

Interesting, thanks. Might just give it a try.

[Dienekes]

I managed to enjoy the first Ant-Man because I watched it when I was sick and my brain wasn’t up to much. Very bland origin story made palatable by Paul Rudd and the X-Con guys. Didn’t love it, tolerated it.

I did love Ant-Man and the Wasp, which is one of my favorite MCU movies. It has everything Quantumania doesn’t: goofy fun, quirky humor, intriguing villain, hilarious action and a great soundtrack to sell it all.

On the flip side, I did really hate the first Guardians movie, which is why I’m hesitant here. Not sure if even a certain shiny cameo would be enough for me to like Guardians 3.

If the shiny cameo is who I think it is. I will point out he is based on his original appearances (especially his appearance in Thor, but less gross in a way I'm not certain I can say on this board) rather than what he develops into after Thomas and Kane got ahold of Him.

I will say, they leave room for the development to run parallel to what happens in the comic.

[Devlerbat]

If the shiny cameo is who I think it is. I will point out he is based on his original appearances (especially his appearance in Thor, but less gross in a way I'm not certain I can say on this board) rather than what he develops into after Thomas and Kane got ahold of Him.

I will say, they leave room for the development to run parallel to what happens in the comic.

As far as I can find the character of the shiny "cameo" is unique to this movie and this is his only appearance in any form of media.

[Dienekes]

As far as I can find the character of the shiny "cameo" is unique to this movie and this is his only appearance in any form of media.

yeah, with the talk about shiny person having a cameo I immediately jumped to Adam Warlock. Forgot about Firefly for a moment there.

[Murk]

I'm not sure I understand the timeline of the flashbacks. Can someone explain how Lylla the otter ended up marrying Hawkeye?

[Talakeal]

I'm not sure I understand the timeline of the flashbacks. Can someone explain how Lylla the otter ended up marrying Hawkeye?

So, it took me a moment to get the joke, and for a moment I was wondering if that literally happened in the comics, and realized I wouldn't be surprised.

[Devonix]

Well finally saw it, still debating if it's gonna take the top spot for me in the trilogy. It's better than the first one but uncertain if I'd place it above 2

[Aedilred]

I enjoyed it, although I still think Vol. 2 is the best of the trilogy by a fair bit. Part of this is just its length. Each Guardians film has got longer, and I'm of a mind that many modern films are too long anyway*, so if they could have found twenty minutes or so to cut in there that would have helped.

I felt it lacked some of the anarchic energy of the first two. Part of this is probably the effective absence of Rocket as we know him from most of the runtime. While I always found Rocket a bit annoying as a character, he did provide a foil for Quill and something for other characters to bounce off. Instead Rocket's incapacity sucked a lot of the life out of the characters around him.

Another part may be the soundtrack. Although I preferred the second film's quasi-thematic approach to the first's poppy jukebox, the laser-focus on the period 1964-1979 helped contribute to the films' sense of retro fun. When they did in vol. 1 it was a somewhat original approach which has been much imitated without a great deal of success. Vol. 2 was remarkable in absolutely nailing the music despite having a more crowded field to stand out in. Expanding the range of music available for the soundtrack means there's more to work with, of course, but it also means it's harder work. And while it may be unfair to complain about what felt like a somewhat route-1 approach taken by including Creep, Badlands, Since You Been Gone, No Sleep Till, etc. when the first two were slinging around Cherry Bomb, Want You Back, The Chain, Ain't No Mountain High Enough and, perhaps most egregiously, Father and Son, I found myself querying the musical choices when they appeared much more than I did in vol. 2.

A minor, but distracting, moment, was Quill's insistent declaration that Rocket was his best friend when the two have generally displayed a frequently aggressive rivalry, and he's often seemed closer to Drax: indeed his relationship with Nebula in this movie seemed uncomplicatedly closer than that with Rocket in the previous ones. There's also Kraglin, of course, who Quill has known for an awful lot longer. It's a very trivial point, and of course none of the others are mortally wounded, so it's understandable that Rocket is the one Quill is concerned about - but it made me stop and go "hmm, really?" in a way that I don't think I was meant to. Incidentally, there was a similar moment in Iron Man Three, where Tony refers (in similar circumstances!) to Happy as his best friend, and while that - like Quill and Rocket - isn't an obviously invalid take, I immediately went down the same rabbit hole of "but what about Rhodey? Happy's your employee: is he really your friend?"

Anyway, if there's a Guardians 4, I'll probably watch it. I'm not sure I'll bother with any more Marvel movies unless the reviews are utterly stellar or they bring back some character we all think is gone forever.




*Part of the reason for this, I think, is digital production and projection. Back in ye olden days, the physical cost of film meant that additional length of film came at a cost, both at the production end (not that that stopped Kubrick from doing a bajillion reshoots on The Shining) and the distribution end. This forced directors and editors to be more disciplined in terms of what they shot and what they included in the final cut, and while there were still some sprawling epics out there, in general a movie that was longer than about 100 minutes had to justify the extra runtime in a way which a modern film, where the cost of employing someone to do the edits is probably greater than the cost of the additional footage on distribution, doesn't. As a result the "default" runtime for a film now seems to be about 120 minutes (about the length of Guardians vol. 1) but they don't necessarily use that additional time particularly well.

The poster-boy for this approach, of course, is The Hobbit, movies which are far too long and indulgent and really needed someone to take less pruning shears and more a large axe to them at every stage of their production and distribution.

[Devlerbat]

So, it took me a moment to get the joke, and for a moment I was wondering if that literally happened in the comics, and realized I wouldn't be surprised.

Really? Personally, I would be surprised if Hawkeye married a talking otter in the comics. Deadpool not so much, but Hawkeye?

Sure, the comics may have done weirder stuff, and those are also surprising, but it would just seem out of character for Hawkeye.

Also I would love it if the next time we see Star Lord is in a second Guardians Holiday special where Peter helps Santa Claus save Christmas. It just seems to me the best way to get Santa in as part of the MCU since Quill is already on Earth and the MCU Guardians franchise is already established as being connected to the holidays.

Though I am sure that this is a "your mileage may very" sort of idea.

[ArthurD]

My opinion is that it's very hard to keep a high level even in the next part after the first one.
In this case, they made a very worthy project. for a third movie, it's super.

[MCerberus]

I think I felt the same thing as is going around the internet after the credits rolled.

"What a fine ending to the MCU."

It wraps up all the themes and important points from the franchise, and wraps them up in a nice little bow. I have no motive to follow any more of this stuff because this is a very satisfying end point. Kind of the epilogue or third act wrapup of the Infinity stone stuff.


Even got one of those Adventure Time style 'not the end, just goodbye'. Love those