Collector of Stories skill trick

[Darkeness66]

My Player and I have a disagreement. Of course the DM has final say, but I would like input from the community.

Prerequisite

Knowledge (any) 5 ranks,

Benefit

When you attempt a trained Knowledge check to identify a creature or to learn its special powers or vulnerabilities, you gain a +5 competence bonus on the check.


I say you have to buy the trick for each knowledge skill (there are 6 it would apply to). He says buying the trick once applies to all knowledge rolls.

Now at first these seems not that big an issue but when combined with the feat knowledge devotion, it becomes a much bigger issue since your knowledge check gives you bonuses to attack and damage.

[JNAProductions]

I don't see anything that restricts it to one knowledge skill.

I also don't think an extra +1 to-hit and damage is gonna be a big deal. It will consistently be +1 to-hit and damage over what you'd normally get (at least until you could hit 36 without the bonus) but given how wide the numbers get in 3.5...

[Bullet06320]

if you had to take it for each knowledge, there would be wording to that effect, saying it only applies to one knowledge, may be taken more than once for a different knowledge skill, but it doesnt

[Zanos]

It's one of the better skill tricks, and yes it does apply to all knowledge skills after being purchased once.

It's notable that it does not stack with most magic items that grant skill bonuses, since it's a competence bonus, can only be used once per encounter(so only once per monster type, if an encounter has multiple types), and since the skill must be trained you must have at least 1 rank in the knowledge skill you want to apply it to.

[circulated]

I don't see anything that restricts it to one knowledge skill.

I also don't think an extra +1 to-hit and damage is gonna be a big deal. It will consistently be +1 to-hit and damage over what you'd normally get (at least until you could hit 36 without the bonus) but given how wide the numbers get in 3.5...

It's a bit less than an average +1 if you have less than a +15 bonus without it—there's a 10-point spread across +2, from 16 to 25. So if, for example, you have a +10 and roll between 1 and 5, you won't get an extra +1 from it. That being said, it's still +0.75 on average even in that scenario, and my level 5 Ranger has nearly +15 in two Knowledge skills already.

(I'm the player in question, by the way.)

[pabelfly]

I've always treated it as working for all skills.

It's not a big bonus and there's already considerable investment for the build - likely six skill points per level in Knowledge skills, plus Knowledge Devotion and possibly the Education feat as well.

[liquidformat]

I have never been in a game that has the reading You have in 20ish years of 3.5; Actually getting use out of Knowledge devotion is resource intensive and while Collector of Stories skill trick is very helpful it doesn't do much to help you. As already pointed out it is giving you a bonus of around +.75 to attack and damage which frankly has diminishing returns after about level 10. The skill trick is helpful but not over powered as written.

[Chronos]

And the Knowledge Devotion bonus is also typed, and so there are things it doesn't stack with, too. Granted that an insight bonus to attack and damage is relatively rare, but other sources of both exist. For instance, a warblade's Int to damage is an insight bonus, as is a binder's Pact Augmentation bonus to attack.

[sreservoir]

If you don't want it to work with Knowledge Devotion, you're on firmer ground to just deny the interaction, since Knowledge Devotion is mechanically distinct from the a check to identify a creature.

[HalfQuart]

I agree with everyone else that you don't have to take it for each skill. I think you could reasonably limit it to skills that the character has 5 ranks in, but even that isn't RAW since it just says "When you attempt a trained Knowledge check...", trained meaning 1+ rank.

[Jay R]

The description says that the skill trick applies "When you attempt a trained Knowledge check to identify a creature or to learn its special powers or vulnerabilities..."

I am therefore forced to conclude that when your player attempts a trained Knowledge check to identify a creature or to learn its special powers or vulnerabilities, then the skill trick applies.

[pabelfly]

It's a bit less than an average +1 if you have less than a +15 bonus without it—there's a 10-point spread across +2, from 16 to 25. So if, for example, you have a +10 and roll between 1 and 5, you won't get an extra +1 from it. That being said, it's still +0.75 on average even in that scenario, and my level 5 Ranger has nearly +15 in two Knowledge skills already.

(I'm the player in question, by the way.)

This also brings up another point - if you still feel that the feat is too unbalanced after implementing it, you might be able to start using monsters outside of those two skill checks.

The player should consider having at least one point in the other four skills too to get at least a +1 to attacks and damage.

[Troacctid]

It applies to all Knowledge skills that can be used to identify creatures.

[Rijan_Sai]

The main question has (as far as I can see) already been answered (yes, Collector of Stories only needs to be taken once, and (side question) does work with Knowledge Devotion).

But to add even more fun to it: for the low, low cost of one level of Dragonfire Adept, you can also add the invocation Draconic Knowledge for an easy +6 (untyped) bonus to all knowledge checks, (and Spellcraft, but that is irrelevant for this discussion,) and all of the skills count as trained! :smallbiggrin:
(This will work for CoS, but may not work with KD, as that feat has specific wording of requiring at least one rank in the skill... technically just needing to be trained, but I can see the semantic/pedantic restriction being enforced.)