The Great Tome of Battle to Pathfinder 1 Standard Upgrade Project

[Aotrs Commander]

I am tentatively looking at upgrading the Tome of Battle stuff to Pathfinder 1 (well, more specifically 3.Aotrs) standards.

I'm starting this thread so that, as/when/if I decided to go through this, I can hopefully toss some ideas out, and also help anybody else who wants to do this. So hopefully, maybe, what am going to do might become some sort of useful resources for any other person looking at this, though at this stage maybe the boat has sailed largel, I dunno.

I will, if this gets any kind of responses (please rules talk to me, playground, no one else ever does) use this OP as sort of an index, so I might spoiler more stuff for neatness as this expands.



Edit 12/06/2023 Adding an index log for posts; 22/6/2023 added it up to the top. It is the intention, if ANYONE expresses interest, that once I have completed the project in bits here, to slap it into a google doc with a link here and make necessary adjustments to regular PF1 (as opposed to the native 3.Aotrs I'm writing my documents in). Ostensibly, then, the bits I'm posting in the thread is for thoughts, feedback and commentary.



Changes since last edit will be noted in each post in green.

General Revision Notes, Crusader (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656450-The-Great-Tome-of-Battle-to-Pathfinder-1-Standard-Upgrade-Project&p=25792389#post25792389)
Martial Traditions Overview (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656450-The-Great-Tome-of-Battle-to-Pathfinder-1-Standard-Upgrade-Project&p=25799905#post25799905)
Feats (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656450-The-Great-Tome-of-Battle-to-Pathfinder-1-Standard-Upgrade-Project&p=25800792#post25800792)
Marshal, Warblade (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656450-The-Great-Tome-of-Battle-to-Pathfinder-1-Standard-Upgrade-Project&p=25807300#post25807300)
1st level Maneouvres and Stances (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656450-The-Great-Tome-of-Battle-to-Pathfinder-1-Standard-Upgrade-Project&p=25807441#post25807441)






First of all, I need to specifically address Red Fel. If that sounds mean, it's only because the very first thing I did when I started considering this was doing a google search and finding a load of threads on the Playground on the subject wherein Red Fell popped in to keep saying "Just use Path of War, dude."

So to pre-empt that from Red Fel, if he's still around, or from anyone else: thank you for trying to be helpful, but, politely, no, for several reasons.

First and most importantly of all, every single active or previous party bar one has or had a ToB character. I am not going to turn around to say to the players "because of what someone online said, rather than tweak your character to bring it up a bit, we're going to completely scrap your entire character and rebuild it from the ground up to be totally different." That's not fair and probably the single most asshatish thing I can think of for a DM to do. (Like if I was playing PF soulknife (I WISH) and someone came along and said "just play a kineticist with kinetic blade and flavour it," I'd be fracked, because I wanted to play a soulknife.) So I am not doing that.



Second: there is no Just. Everything I add is curated. It must be extracted from it's original source (unless that source is EXPLICTLY the 3.5 PHB I, II, Spell Compendium, XPH, Complete Psionic or ToB itself, which I have currently not entirely coverted over to digital and have phyiscal copies of). I literally do not have any more space in my 90-litre backpack for more books. All content NOT from those books (pertainign to characters, anyway) has to be copied, copy-pasted or transcribed to my relevant documentation (with all the chaff stuff omitted), reformated, checked for balance and compatibiltiy with other rules (e.g Sonic => Thunder damage, upgraded if a poot option) and often added to the indexed list. (Such is the fate of the majority of all the other books from 3.5 and PF1, whether I have a hard-copy or not.) So EVEN IF I was "just" going to use Path of War, I would have to copy everything ANYWAY.

Hell, one of the things this pass it to actually start seeing how much IS actually left in those aforementioned books TO transcribe. (I checked; between the first four sources only, there is now only 135 feat out of over 2000. No idea about spells, but I have a strong tempation to see about just copying all of the feats. Spells are more tricky anyway, since my spells document is already 300 pages.)

So there is no "just use Path of War as a quick option" because there IS no quick option.



Third: I looked at the Tob martial classes, and nothing about them struck me as meriting inclusion in and of their own right. I didn't look at any of them and go "wow," I'm afraid. I already have 62 base classes. Some of them (notaly Warload) are straight up more complicated to faff about with than what they would replace (sublime marshal, the ToB version of the marshal from the old WotC boards, basically) and I would like to keep adepts as, like as relatively simple to play as possible. That's kind of part of their point. They are for people who don't WANT to have to play primary prepared spellcasters (or the Brawler). For this reason, I am very hestiant to straight-up give them more maneouvres (unless it makes generating them easier, more of that in a bit).



So, my approach is going to be thus: Plumb Path of War for ideas. I just straight-up don't want to add a boatload of new schools anyway either, so what I intend to do is go through them (or some selected ones) and let the current ToB schools (including the four additional homebrew schools I ALREADY have) kill them and take their stuff and use that to broaden their parametres, as well as buffing up those schools. (If there's a particularly good replacement ToB = PoW, I might just change the names.) This exercise will mandate me reprinting the ENTIRE of maneouvre cards anyway (and potentially making my little index card boxes too full), so there's a limit to what I want to add which is, again, partly limited by sheer physical practicaility. If I can't fit all the cards in the three card index boxes, it's too much.



So then. First of all, let me summarise the current status of the three ToB class you will be familiar with. They are fairly short, but I spoilered them for conveniance anyway (I actually thought they were longer).


In addition to these are the marshal (slightly tweaked sublime marshal) and the Sekkou (and psionic/adept ninja-like class). I'm not going to bother posting those up for dissection at the moment, because that's a frack ton of formattin effort that's at best ancillary to what I'm aiming to do. If people are REALLY interest in that, I can, like, slap 'em in a google docs or something and link it.)











Edit: Full changes now documented in appropriate post.

Schools: Access to Eternal Mount (homebrew mounted, from the WoC boards), Falling Star (ranged, from the WoC boards) and Unquiet Twiliet (undead themed, homebrew).

Smite: Updated to 3.Aotrs standard. For a PF1 upgrade, just update to Paladin standard and let it work on anything (but not get any extra damage on anything.)

(3.A Smite has been reworked across the entire board for all character classes and abilities that grant Smite to be per-encouter and add D6 plus D6 3/HD. 3.Aotrs paladins/antipaladins get the PF version of smite (after a lot of consideration) as Castigate [Evil], which comes at the opportunity of trading per-encounter smites for daily ones, but that's not really important here.)

Stances: Five stances, at 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, 17th (fixing to a sensible progression.)

(Aside from skills (but not skill points), but not really important here.)





AC bonus renamed to Swordsage's Defence, basically just to solely ensure less wording about it not stacking with similar bonuses along with equally renamed class feaures:

Swordsage’s Defence: Starting at 2nd level, you can add your Wisdom bonus to AC, so long as you wear light armour, are unencumbered, and do not use a shield. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. However, you lose this bonus when you are immobilized or helpless. This does not stack with any other class ability that grants a Wisdom or Intelligence-based AC bonus (e.g. Monk’s Defence).

Schools: Access to Unquiet Twiliet (undead themed, homebrew).

Stances: Six stances and 1st, 2nd, 5th, 9th 15th and 20th. The 15th level stance is delayed a level, but now means you can ACTULLY TAKE 8th LEVEL STANCES before 20th level.


Codified Unarmed Sworsage Alternative Class Feature

Unarmed Swordsage
Level: 1st
Replaces: Light Armour Proficiency
Benefit: You gain the unarmed damage progression of a Monk of your Swordsage level (including for any effects which would increase unarmed damage based on monk level, such a Monk’s Belt). Your Swordsage’s Defence only applies if you are wearing no armour, are unencumbered and not using a shield.

No other changes. (Aside from skills (but not skill points), but not really important here.)





Edit: Full changes now documented in appropriate post.

Schools: Access to Eternal Mount (homebrew mounted, from the WoC boards).

Stances: Four stances and 1st, 6th, 10th 16th (the latter delayed to that you actually can pick a 3rd level stance before 10th level. And, looking at that progression with fresh eyes today, I still don't like it, but it was a "minimum changes" kind of thing. Gonna fix that.

No other changes. (Aside from skills (but not skill points), but not really important here.)




Current Manouvre Changes:

Minimal - since it would require changing my cards, I basically have done very little and what has been done has been to homebrew and written on the cards in pencil currently.

The pertinent one is:

Martial Spirit Stance:
Damage healed changed from 2 per hit to 5+Initiator level.

2 hit points is fine at level one, but when I asked my (9th level) Crusader payer about it, he pointed out it's already kind of awful. I thought about it a bit on the spur of the moment and that was what I told him to correct it to with his pencil. I'm not sure if that's too much (100 hp/round at 20th is very good for no action cost) BUT that could be spread across six to eight characters, not four.) I am considering 5+ 1/2 initator level, (so 15/hit at 20th) but, yeah, I think it's very debatable. The amount it heals should be meaningful, but maybe not too much. I'm not sure whether it matters as this point.

For reference, nearly all healing spells have been significantly buffed, because they didn't heal enough (especially in an enviroment where everything basically has maximum hit points and needs them). Currently, the standard ones (look like:
CLW: 5 + D8/level, max 3D8
CMW: 10 + D8/level, max 5D8
CSW: 15 + D8/level, max 7D8
CCW: 20 + D8/level, max 10D8
CLW,M: 25 + D8/2 levels, max 7D8
CMW,M: 30 + D8/2 levels, max 10D8
CSW: 35 + D8/2 levels, max 13D8
CCW: 40 + D8/2 levels, max 15D8

(Yes, the corresponding Inflicts are the same, meaning they are now something to worry about!)




Current Proposed Changes:

Fix stances for Warblade to be better. Maybe improve stance numbers generally, but some of that is going to require checking to see if there are enough stances characters can qualify for.

Likely as part of whole process: standardised maneouvre pre-reqs based on level. (Yes, this might mean you can't get Insightful Strike without getting something else first, look, if it's that important... And probably is, because everybody does it, so might just make that straight-up a special feature if that one maneouvre, okay? It was the only 3rd level one without a prereq, that was probably really an oversight on WotC's part, they didn't exactly do that bang-ip of a job with ToB, did they.)

Manouvres Readied/Known:

What prompted this whole thread was, because I started thinking about this this morning, and I have a rule that, if I start thinking about something in detail I have already committed to doing it.

So. As I said, I do not particularly want to balloon out the numder of maneouvre known. The duration of combats is short (average 2-3 rounds), and pertinently, the ability to have aty-will powers is not the ability to fight all day. The amount of encounters you can fight per day is strictly determined by the primary spell casters - or more correctly, the amount of healing spells (or nonspell healing resources) the party has access to. So I just don't see the value in making the players have to deal with lots more cards.

HOWEVER. Frankly, building an adept PC always gives my gyp, like making a wizard if 3.5 without retroactive skill points. Because I have to work out what maneouvres they know at that level, and then back work how many maneouvres they swap out for ones of higher level and at what level they do so. It's a pain in the arse.

So, today, my first idea was, sod it. Change the feature so that you can only swap manouvres for ones of the SAME level, but instead just get a new manouvre. Of course, actually looking at it, all that achieves is them all getting ten more maneouvres.

(I thought for a moment that's maybe me re-onventing Path of War's wheel, but not, they gave than more maneouvres and ALSO retained the same problem (and bugger making my job as DMing even HARDER! I like to use Warblades as a relatively easy way to buff monsters with extra classes levels that's a bit different from Fighter...))

So maybe if I do do something like that, I need to reduce the amount of times they can swap out stuff, or add new maneouvres slightly less often, and only allow them to swap out for the same level. (say, extra 5 maneouvres over 20 levels, but you can only swap out for the same level). I will clearly have to play with the numbers some more, it's not As Simple As That.


This would also creat problems with the second idea I'm considering, which was "should I just get rid of readied maneouvered for everone but the Crusader?" It would remove some of the overhead (i.e, in having basically three sets of cards to seperate week to week with your one paperclip; maneouvres you know which aren't readied, readied and expended maneouvres.

I thinking that might be okay in theory, but not if I balloon out the number of maneouvres known.

Crusaders pose a special problem, largely mandating the reason we have the cards at all (though it beats having ANOTHER document that has to be passed around, or printing cards for EACH character special-like, bugger that!) The random mechanic is interesting but it falls down a little if combats don't generally last 4 or more rounds. The player also said, that, despite his best efforts, the physical differences in the cards means it doesn't always help. My thnking was "well, if we change it so that readied-known, then all he has to do is remove three cards which aren't readied. Regardless of whether you word it as "you get a random selection of manouvres (equal to your readied - 3)" or just a much simplifed "pick three maneouvres you star combat with out being readied." It's of a muchness.

So maybe the whole random mechanic itself is maybe a bit flawed, especially if you have more maneouvres than Tob gives you. Because looking at Path of War's Mystic, which has roughly the same mechanic, but they let you choose the ones you start combat with - when you have five maneouvre and a choice of two to start with, that's big. But by the time you have, like, 5/8 at 10h level, you're going to have taken all your best ones ANYWAY, AND the combat's going to be over before you get the extra three. Even less care if you take Extra Granted Maneouvre (and which crusader/mystic wouldn't). And that's assuming you DO use a maneouvre every round. But as my crusader player said, he's 9th level now and has two attacks. Currently, his maneouvres often don't give enough of a benefit to be worth an extra attack (especially with the party buffs).

Perhaps, then, that whole mechanic should be changed. So, beat with me here.

So, terminology change. Let's assume for the moment I keep the fact you can't "load/prepare" all the maneovres you know. Unlike a caster, you're likely going to have more "prepared" than "unpreparaed", so let's instead call the ones in the stack the Reserve.

We let all the classes have a small reserve (ostensibly moving those low level maneouvers you would have swapped out to a reserve, allowing us to add ten extra maneouvres to my life easier without ovferloading too much stuff). However, Crusaders, instead of having to randomly pick some of their "loaded" manouvers to be granted and arse about, once per round, get to choose a maneouvre to move out of their reserve. And on every 4th round of combat, instead of doing that, they refresh their stack and those extras go back into the reserve.

Thsi will get us LARGELY the same effect, except that a) we have simplfied the terminology, such that readied/granted meaningfully disappears (and now they only have to worry about what's in reserve and what isn't, like all the other classes) b) remove the random aspect which is big at bottom level and icnreasingly meanignless the higher you go up the level tree. (And my weekly parties are expected to - and DO - go from, if not 1-20, at least 1 to 17/18.)

Thoughts?

Anyone?

(Did I just spend two hours before breakfast typing this all up for nothing when I could have spent the time converting the Bloodrager or that frag-damn kineticist? You decide.)

[Crake]

NGL, aside from the obviously-needs-to-be-fixed-in-general issues, like stance progression, swordsage level 1 skill points, and so on, I don't think ToB needs any particular changes to be pathfinder compatible. Seems like you've done some other things, like add in some homebrew disciplines, which I can't really comment on, but yeah, the book itself can probably just be converted one-for-one over to pathfinder.

[Aotrs Commander]

NGL, aside from the obviously-needs-to-be-fixed-in-general issues, like stance progression, swordsage level 1 skill points, and so on, I don't think ToB needs any particular changes to be pathfinder compatible. Seems like you've done some other things, like add in some homebrew disciplines, which I can't really comment on, but yeah, the book itself can probably just be converted one-for-one over to pathfinder.

I think the manouvres do need a bit of a going over, especially since I've seen what high level play is like. 9th level maneouvre that just deals a single hit that does a hundred damage is actually a bit paff, for instance, when compared to a full attack from a (ironically) rogue/swordsage - only single-wielding - where's it's easier just to roll 45D6 digitially! So I think it needs some refinement.

But yes, ToB classes themselbes by default shouldn't need a great deal of a buff, which is why my current tweaks have been small (technically, I think the smallest of any class from 3.5) because ToB was in a pretty good place in 3.5, really. But adding some additional (curated) content doesn't hurt.

(Actually, despite the homebrew schools, I think only one character ever dipped into it (the ranged one) - though the sekkou has it's own one as well. The majority of the ToB characters have been the three base classes, and then as often as not sprinkled in to other builds.)

[Kish]

You'll need to do something with the maneuvers that presume the existence of a Concentration skill.

Props for doing this and not just handwaving in Path of War, btw.

[Aotrs Commander]

You'll need to do something with the maneuvers that presume the existence of a Concentration skill.

Props for doing this and not just handwaving in Path of War, btw.

That, at least, is no a problem, since I retained Concentration for that purpose among others.

The thing is now that casters don't HAVE to take it, since they can substitute their caster (etc) level plus key ability modifer for a concentration check. But of course you get a +3 trained from the skill if you take it, so it is worth having if your Con is less only a couple of points less than your casting stat. Ort is your a [kineticist], for straight-up that extra +3 bonus...!

(Though we as a group all also have to remember that's an option after twenty years...! The 18th level cleric, drudi and wziard probably dind't need to keep investing, since I suspect their CL+ abililty was probably quite a bit better than their Concentration skill by the end, oops. Well, nevermind...!)

(I also kept Jump as a seperate skill and Search, but made the uses of search vrs Perception MUCH more defined, Search is explcitly "picking stuff up and touching it" not just looking for it (Perception). But that's also here nor there...!)

[icefractal]

Re: annoyance of tracking maneuver replacements -

I'd just let people change their entire maneuver list every level, to whatever they qualify for. Because of prerequisites, I don't think this would be too crazy, but if it was you could simply set a cap on how many maneuvers of each level you can have. Three, maybe. With 1st obviously excluded.

Same thing I do with Sorcerers (or would, IIRC nobody has played one in my game). Much less bookkeeping, easier to make a high-level one, makes bad choices easier to fix. As far as consistency, IME that's more about sticking to a concept than it is about having the exact same moves available.

[QuadraticGish]

I think it would be a good idea to follow one of PoW's ideas and let each class get the same number of stances. You should think about accounting for the Unorthodox Method trait which let's you swap one for school for any other school. Standardizing the saving throws on maneuvers to use a class specific initiator modifier would be easier to remember than writing down what ability score each discipline uses, especially if someone is multiclassing between initiators.

I do have an alternative idea for dealing with your card problem. The Voltatic introduced sparking (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Sparking), and it uses one of PF's existing optional systems (combat stamina) to pay for maneuvers at a rate of cost = maneuver level. You still need to track maneuvers known and readied, but you can use any maneuver you have readied as long as you can pay the stamina for it(and have the action available) so you don't need to deal with expending maneuvers. You might also like it since combat stamina already has interactions with the standard combat feats. For the Crusader, you could have it function as his arsenal slowly opening up as the battle rages on until he gets them all.

[Aotrs Commander]

First of all, let me introduce you to what I'm going to call the Throllgar Test, which will be applied to all the stuff I'm doing as a sanity check.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Primary-Gallery/i-PWBjmSR/0/6b00e7b1/X3/Throllgar%20V3%2001-X3.jpg

Throllgar is an example of an actual practical character that have had extensive experience suffering from, from my last Rise of the Runelords campaign. He's dwarf Barbarian 13/Fighter 5, who uses TWF and Shock Trooper's Heedless Charge (the fighter levels were mostly there to get it that feat quicker and for, amusingly enough, the copoius bonus feats, since 3.Aotrs fighters get one feat a level) in concert with the Lion Totem alternate class feature to have Pounce from level 1. Throllgar has eight attacks (foru from left axe, foru from right axe), plus his bite; plus one additional attack at full attack bonus from his 3.Aotrs Action Surge 5th level Fighter Class Feature, plus likely one Adjunct Attack* from Haste or Wrath of the Righteous or something. So that is eleven attacks per round. Adn between buffs, Heedless Charge and the ruddy cleric casting that one 3.5spell that makes everyone's weapon Brilliant Energy, he usually is not going to miss.

Thus, he's a great litmus test for "would this addition make Throllgar substantially worse (for the DM)" or "would this be broken in a party which Contained Throllgar?" Because it's not theorycrafting, it's an example of an actual, real character that might one day potentially get used again.



*Adjunct Attack: 3.Aotrs terminology to actually codify that tiresome [excrement] of "doesn't stack with haste or speed weapons" nonsense, so that can die, along side the "as the Fear spell but" and "like Haste/Slow but" and the evn-more bullcrap 3.5 "we have Staggered as a condition but instead of using it we'll just describe what Staggered does without labelling it" rubbish that also plagues 3.5 and PF1 both...





Re: annoyance of tracking maneuver replacements -

I'd just let people change their entire maneuver list every level, to whatever they qualify for. Because of prerequisites, I don't think this would be too crazy, but if it was you could simply set a cap on how many maneuvers of each level you can have. Three, maybe. With 1st obviously excluded.

Same thing I do with Sorcerers (or would, IIRC nobody has played one in my game). Much less bookkeeping, easier to make a high-level one, makes bad choices easier to fix. As far as consistency, IME that's more about sticking to a concept than it is about having the exact same moves available.

I honestly don't think that would help, for reasons I'll go into in a moment.


I think it would be a good idea to follow one of PoW's ideas and let each class get the same number of stances.

That's a good idea, especially since even a cursory look at Path of War showed they devianted from Tob's standartd of stances only at certain levels (1/3/5/7/8).


You should think about accounting for the Unorthodox Method trait which let's you swap one for school for any other school. Standardizing the saving throws on maneuvers to use a class specific initiator modifier would be easier to remember than writing down what ability score each discipline uses, especially if someone is multiclassing between initiators.

Was going to say that is strictly unecessary as (most...) ToB maneuvres that have a save give the relevant ability modifier. But I think you meant "so you know what abilitiy modifiers your character needs" and that's a fair point. BUT I have to balance that again what my current play has so I don't screw him over when I change. But, in isolation, that's a good idea, because standardisation is very much a problem currently.



I do have an alternative idea for dealing with your card problem. The Voltatic introduced sparking (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Sparking), and it uses one of PF's existing optional systems (combat stamina) to pay for maneuvers at a rate of cost = maneuver level. You still need to track maneuvers known and readied, but you can use any maneuver you have readied as long as you can pay the stamina for it(and have the action available) so you don't need to deal with expending maneuvers. You might also like it since combat stamina already has interactions with the standard combat feats. For the Crusader, you could have it function as his arsenal slowly opening up as the battle rages on until he gets them all.

That doesn't solve the problem that's, like actually the problem. You're just swapping the cards for another pool that has to be kept track of, and means instead of having the cards to flip over, you're back to having looking them up out of a book or having (me, basically) do the extra work of printing a new summary sheet every time you level up. (I have one player who does his own digital character sheet that does that himself, and he doesn't liem prepared spellcasters for that explict reason.)



So, on Monday, I jotted down what number of manuvers my crusader player has. (I spent yesterday finishing off the Bloodrager.)

Today, I thought "I'll just have a quick look before breakfast and eyeball out what it would do if do what I'm thinking about."

It is now quarter to one, I've not had breakfast yet and I should technically really Do Some Proper Work today really.

To work out what maneouvres you could have at what level (in the Best Case Scenario, where you trade out your lowest-level maneouvre for the highest available), I had to Make A Table. And, when comparing it to my scribbled note, either I missed a card, or my player didn't pick his 5th level maneouvre for 9th level. I mean, that sort indicates a problem right there, don't it? And he hasn't swapped out many of his maneouvres, seemingly, as currently hes has 4 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd and 1 4th (he should have 1 5th too, my my estimation).

So. What has become apparent is that both Tob and Path of War, with their "you can swap out maneouvres for whatever level you like" and inconsistent pre-reqs (since Path of War likewise doesn't appear to have a completely standard system of pre-reqs) is that they were entirely focussed on characters as grown organically from first upwards. That sort of think - rather like wizard skill points in 3.5 - is fine for when you are doing it level by level.

But it's a MASSIVE pain to do when you're NOT starting it from level one and advancing one level at a time, because then you HAVE to. (I was never more pleased than when PF1 introduced the idea of retroactive skill points, years before I moved anything else, I took that immediately, because I was SO TIRED of the extra effort I had to make when making wizard NPCs and having to arse about with thei skill points.)

As it stands, when I want to make, say, an 9th level NPC to bolster the crap I already did because I expected six players and I now have eight1 the job takes much longer, because I have to frack about working out what that Best Case is (or save and consult The Table, which is different, of course, for each adept class) AND then check each maneouvre for pre-reqs. Whereas with, say a caster or manifester, I just know how much crap they have at each level (because psions don't swap their powers out and casters that do can only do it for the same level) and just pick the damn powers/spells off the power/spell list. (Hell, you could even have a School/Discipline Specialist aking to wizard/psion even.)

(Side note: If you're entirely copying-up, re-writing all the text anyway, find a new Thing to call martial stuff that is not either School or Discipline as so not confusing with spells or powers (an no, you've abused [x] Path] already to work out of confusions already...)

The pre-req system is all very flavourful an all, but I already knew under standard ToB it basically forced you down the route of basically You Get Basically One School.

So, I'm frankly now sitting here thinking, "but WHY, thought?" Why should maneouvres need additional gating that spells do? Because, realistically "you can use them an unlimited number of times per day" is not true, because the amoiunt of Fights Per Day is 100% limited by the entirely NOT unlimited times per day access to HEALING. (Same applies to invokers.) That and 3.Aotrs explcitly has Long-Term Exhaustion rules which knacker you if you start to try and do stupid thngs like cast crap for a hundred rounds or more.

So I am starting to think, you'know what? Bollocks to all that school flavour stuff that we don't and never will pay attention to anyway, why not just treat them like schools of magic or psionic disiplines? (Even keys into the "you have one initiating stat per class" thing.)

Ditch the pre-req almost entirely. "But Aotrs, what about when someone dips a level into an adept class at high level, because it's really good for that, you don't want Throllgar to take a level of a ToB class as his 19th level and immediately get four or five 6th level manouvres, do you?"

Almost, I said, Almost.

Instead, there is one line that says "in order to learn a manouver of a given level, you must know a number of manouvres of lower level equal to half (round down) that manouver's level. E.g., you must know at least one manouvre of 1st level to learn a 2nd or 3rd level manouvre, or four manouvres of 1st to 8th level to learn a 9th level manouvre. This does not apply to stances (which progress based on class level) or manouvres with the [Easy] (name pending) descriptor. Note that single-classed adept character will meet these requirements automatically through normal advancement, and thus this is only important for multi-class characters."

There. Now if Throllgar picks up a level of Crusader or Swordsage or something as his 19th level, he's got to at least learn one first level maneouvre and one third and one of 1st to 5th to get a 6th. Reasonably easy, yes?



Next, there now comes the question of swapping out verses new maneouvers.

So, if instead of swapping out (or at least, swapping being limited to ones of the same level), you just an extra maneouvre learned at that level? Well, that takes the Crusader from 14 over 20 levels to 23 over 20 levels. It would mean my 9th-level crusader would go from the nine (he's supposed to have) plus three stances, to twelve plus three stances.

It basically means, like psionists, you get basically 2 manouvres of each level, plus however many first you get. Notably, with the current swapping out rules, you can't do better than that unless you sacrifice a higher level power/manouvre to learn a lower level one ANYWAY.

I was at first going "yeah, but then they have more manouvers known than even Path of War gives them..." But, y'know, maybe that's not too terrible. At 20th level, a swordsage is already going to have twenty-five frag-damn cards before stances, what's adding another nine to the pile at that point? Still less spells than a Sorcerer and that's the Worst Case. Especially when only a dozen of those are not going to be in the Reserve.

Three more cards is not going to overload my current player, either.

So I think that, ultimately, that's probably fine, because the trade off is it makes it MUUCH easier to keep track of how many maneouvres you have at each level and to meet pre-reqs without it becoming a buracratic chore.



The next major barrier is that the Path of War schools don't map terribly well to ToB schools, which presents a challenge. On the one hand, for those of you playing along at home, if we treat maneouvres more like spells or powers or invocation, who gives a crap is a manouver appears on more than one of them, right? But it will mean having to basically go through each discipline one by one to raid for stuff and I can start to see why nobody else was dumb enough not to just Red Fel this whole question.



But Golden Lion seemed a logical place to start for White Raven, so I had a quick look. Bearing in mind what my player said, one criterion has to be Must Be Worth Doing Over A Full Attack. That means stuff that does damage better do quite a bit of damage or give something really good.

I have wasted way too much time already today (it's taken my an hour and a quarter to write this guff and I still haven't had breakfast yet, good job I had already decided this week was at least SEMI-holiday...), so I'll confine my observations specifally to the top one, Lord of the Pridelands, since while the others all looked fine (or maybe in need of a slight buff), that one stood out to a cursory inspection as just... Yeah. Spent a standard action to give every ally within 60 a +2 morale bonus to attack, damage, AC and saving throws for each ally (maximum +10) for 1 round.

Yeah that's... Clearly not designed around the expectation that the party size is six to eight (before companions or summons). It means, in practise, a +10 morale bonus to attack, damage, AC AND saves for the whole party. It basically means, for half-to-a-third of modal expected combat duration, it might as well mean "the party is untouchable for a round, sod off DM, you just get to mark damage off." +10 to attack and damage is already huge. +10 to AC is massive, and +10 to save on top. No. No, that's just silly. Let me put it this way, in any encounter wherein an NPC has it, there are going to be at least six enemies. So then it reads "yep, for the next round, the monsters are untouchable, for any caster that's not currently Playing God with lots of no save spells, and the martials are basically screwed." Like the 3.5 Holy Word spells, it's an encounter-winner right there. The RotRL party was VERY heavily into buffs, so I know EXACTLY how powerful that crap is (by the end, they were regularly on +7 or 8 to attack and damage as a matter of course).

Again; Throllgar Test. So that's an extra 110 damage right there, JUST from Throllgar, not counting the buffs to save and AC. (I mean, if he Heedless Charges, +10 to AC still won't matter when he's also at -22, but...) And he was regularly hitting for D10+D6+48 on a Heedless Charge already (yes, he DID break 700 damage in one round once...) By the time you add in the rest of the party - and because we actually lost players, there were only six of them at the time - that's damage that outpaces most 9th level spells BEFORE you account for the AC and save bonuses. WAAAY too much in my experience.

So that, strikes me as needing to be revised to a choice of EITHER Attack and Damage OR AC OR saves and I'd further say for a large party expectation, you could probably stand to reduce the bonus down to +1/ally, because +5 to 7 is still a bigger single bonus than I could think of, even if it means that Good Hope is going to be overwritten so you only get +3 to 4 on top of your usual bonus. Especially as you can do that EVERY encounter. (You MIGHT pursuade me to downgrade it to a move action with the nerfs if you are particularly convincing.)



Right, I 'spose I better actually Have Breakfast and myabe TRY doing some Actual Work. (The problem being when your work requires creativity and your creative process are stuck on the 3.Aotrs revisions. I almost have to take work time to get this through so I CAN actually get back to doing work. (I mean, it's not like I make any money fracking anyway, are it?)




1Yeah, I'mma not actually going to do that, I'm going to make the difference by spamming 3.Aotrs Defiant templates on all the boss monsters, but the for the sake of argument...

[Aotrs Commander]

Now that I have mostly dealt with the feats, time to go back to this, so I can actually FINISH the feats.

(Note: Permission to double post asked and granted, just so we're all clear.)


Edit Log: Changes since last edit in green.
12/6/2023: Added crusader initiation modifer (Cha) and relevant section of key abilites.
13/06/2023: Changed wording of Crusader's recovery method to explictly call it a cycle (makes it easier to refer to).
15/06/2023: Added universal maneouvre prerequsites.
22/06/2023: Reformatted tables (frag that was more work than it should be) added final class tweaks.
24/06/2023: Added Battle Prayer (pinched from epilektoi), re-worded recovery method.


General Revision notes.

Stances and Maneouvres are now classified under "martial technqiues" (conveniant header), disciplines and renamed to "traditions" (because then it's not clashing with psionic disicplines and 3.Aotrs has a polci of "if its different, it has a different name" hense why there are no ", psionic" powers left unnamed..). Practioners of martial technqiues are left as "martial adepts."

Manouvres not readied are called your Reserve. (Mostly just for ease of the crusader's mechanic, honestly.)

Other than that, and some clarifications on grapple (with the relevant sections shown below), base mechanics are copy-pasted out of Path of War (because it was very slightly easier than from ToB) and aren't changed.



Initiating Maneouvres and Stances
To initiate a stance or manoeuvre, the character must be able to move.

Unlike some abilities, while initiating, the character do not need to be able to speak, unless specifically mentioned in the manoeuvre’s description. A character initiates a manoeuvre by taking the manoeuvre’s specified initiation action. It may require an Immediate, Swift, Move, Standard, or even a Full-Round action to initiate. Initiating a manoeuvre can be likened to that of a spell being cast or psionic power manifested. Only a manoeuvre that is currently readied and unexpended may be used.

Stances are initiated as a Swift action. A stance remains in effect indefinitely and is never expended. The benefit of the chosen stance continues until the character changes to another stance they know as a Swift action, ends it as a Swift action, or is rendered Helpless, Paralysed, Petrified, Pinned or Unconscious or is killed. A stance is also ended if the character is Grappled unless the stance specifically can be used while Grappled.

Concentration
Concentration is not required to initiate a stance or manoeuvre, as with spells or psionic powers. Even if a character us injured or affected by hostile manoeuvres, powers, or spells while assuming a stance or initiating a manoeuvre, they do not lose it.

However, enemy interference still could make certain manoeuvres impossible to complete. For example, if an enemy readies an action and disarms a character when they start start their turn, they are no longer able to use a manoeuvre that requires them to be wielding that weapon.

If a character initiates a manoeuvre and thereafter can’t use it during their turn, the manoeuvre is still considered expended. They are still considered to have spent its initiation action.

A character does not provoke attacks of opportunity when they initiate a stance or manoeuvre unless otherwise stated in its description. However, some manoeuvres allow for movement, the ability to charge, or take other actions that can provoke attacks of opportunity. These actions provoke attacks of opportunity as normal unless specifically stated otherwise in the manoeuvre’s description.

Any manoeuvre which requires precise and careful action is impossible to use while Grappled or Pinned.

I have now begun to do the revisions of the classes, before I get to maneuovres. First up both alphabetically, and because there is an active PC, is Crusader.

Change Notes:

First of all and likely most contraversially, you will note "Aotrs, you got rid of that cool randoimistion mechanics!" Yup.

There are a couple of reasons. One, notoriously "Aotrs Hate RNG."

Two, the pure physical practicality. My player has noted that, despite his best efforts, that the cards are simply not identical enough to make randoly drawing them easy, because given he's not trying to cheat, he can basically tell which cards are which. On top of that, it's a pain to have to keep track week-to-week of which maneouvres are readied/expended, which aren't readied, and which are granted/not granted; that's a whole extra stack to have to find some way to paperclip and if the player is away that week, for someone else to have to work out.

Three, the mechanic has something a base flaw. It cycles on a 3-4 round cycle, but combats most often don't last more than 2-3 rounds anyway. On top of that... Path of War gives the mystic, which uses the mechanic, a lot more manouvers, but sticks with the 3-random, because obviously extended that cap makes it even less likely to happen. But the provlem is, mystics choose their granted maneouvres anyway, and get random draws. Now, while there crusader only has 5-7 readied maneouvres, three is a significant chunk. But as the mystic gets more and more, that three (or less, with Extra Granted Maneouvre) becomes less and less meaningful. At 9th level, where my PC is, a mystic has 5 chosen and trhee randoms. There now already have more maneaouvres than there are likely combat rounds (heck, the crusader does, even), so those three random ones are... Kind of pointless, since they are going to be the ones the player cares least about. Even more so if there's two of them.

So I thought about it and decided to straight-up scrapped the idea of the random. Instead, every round, a Crusader gets to pick a maneouvre from their Reserve. Their readied maneouvres now basically are just their granted maneouvres, eliminating the whole "granted" concept. When the crusader has gotten three maneouvres out of their reserve (so three rounds, two with whatever Extra granted manouvres is renamed to, which will I think give you two on the first round), they put three maneuovres that they like back into the reserve and refresh. While this removes the random element (though, like, randomly pick from your reserve is you like?) it also means the refresh is a bit more dynamic and you can adapt (in a long enough combat) by basically a limited change to your readied maneouvres over time.



Stances: Changed to Path of War progression, unliaterally (as they did) to all martial adept classes. Also changed the previous ruling and let stances be subject to initator level, not class level as previously ruled.


Swappable manouvres. Now limited to level, across all adept classes. The trobule with the previous system is it was VERY CLEARLY only designed with players running organically created characters up through the levels. With a starting higher level character, or the long-suffering DM, making an adept NPC was a freaking pain. Because, like wizards with non-retroactive skill points, I basically had to go back through the class to work out what the maximum level maneouvres they could have because of the swapping out and the pre-reqs and it was just a pain. I mean, I had to make a sodding table to work it out to be able to make a coherent decision on what to change (and found out my players even missing a maenouvre.) So, bollocks to that, frankly.

Instead, I just straight-up added a new maneouvre to the progression at 4th and onward even level instead. Same maximum level of maneouvres, just less booking keeping for ME. in the end, I figure it was worth the extra physical load of More Cards.

Smite was changed to bring it in-line with 3.Aotrs smite (for those of you playing along at home, feel free to replace it with the PF version of smite). Added some additional progression, because smite always felt a little-bit bolted on and it's not like the crusader was exactly swimming in class features anyway.

As always, thoughs, comments, errors welcome (even if in the end I don't agree, it's worth the debate!)

I'm not pushing this change "live" until I have sorted the actual maneouvres (and cards) out, since it will mean by player getting and extra 1st level stance and three more maneouvres, so I want him o have the expanded choice.

Key abilities are in red because I have to have a look at this an implement something in a way which does not screw over the existing character by lumping him with effectively a casting stat that didn't exist before. I checked - his Charisma is 14, so switching maneouvres from a physical abiltiy score (in ToB) to Cha means a 3-point reduction in save DC.

I'm actually also very dubious on the benefits of the change from DCs based on the ability score given in the maneouvre itself (often linked to school) to a global casting stat. Which is what it is. What WAS wrong with having DCs based on Str anyway? Now, on the one hand, I can see an arguement for making stuff (like say Desert Wind) that's Su being based on a mental stat when it's already based on a mental stat... But I've having a hard time justfying why Stone Vice (which involves thwacking someone so hard you basically drive them into the ground like a tent peg for a few seconds can be better done by Str 8 a Wizard with a one level dip into Warblade (the most logical canidate for Int-based Initiation modifer) than Billy Bigsword the Barbarian who has also taken a one-level dip into Warblade.

So I'm trying to work out how to approach this. At the moment, I've very tempted to say to have that mental iniation modifer, but also have some maneouvres (like the aforementioned) from ToB keep their Str modifier. If anyone wants to make me an arguement wuith a better approach, I'm listening.

Edit: as of 12/06/2023 update, initation modifiers will be applied universally, except for some traditions where something will substutute as a special rules (e.g. Stone Dragon).

[S](Apologies for the table not being great, I couldn't immediately figure out how to change the inidivual colum width and I'd used enough of my workign day putting the table in as it was - I will, as they say "fix it in post" later if so informed. I have half an idea somewhere on the boards there may have even been a class table templte proper, but I have no idea where, so I had to do this all by hand.)

Updated formatting.



Note: features seperated by a slash pertain to default PF1 or 3.Aotrs where there is variance; stuff pertinent only to 3.Aotrs is simply in brown.

CRUSADER
Key Abilities:None: typically Strength (Stone Dragon tradition DCs), Charisma (Initation Modifer). Note that most Crusader traditions (apart from Falling Star and Unquiet Twilight have very few maneouvres to which the initator modifer applies.)
Hit Die: D10
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Autohypnosis (Wis)/Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Martial) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex)
Skill Points per level: 4+Int mod
Starting Gold: 240






Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Manoeuvres Known
Manoeuvres Readied
Stances
Special


1st
+1
+2
+0
+0
5
2
1
Battle Prayer, Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+0
5
2
2
Indomitable Soul


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+1
6
3
2
Zealous Surge


4th
+4
+4
+1
+1
7
3
2
Steely Resolve 10


5th
+5
+4
+1
+1
8
3
3
—


6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+2
9
4
3
Smite 1/Encounter


7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+2
10
4
3
—


8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+2
11
4
3
Steely Resolve 15


9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+3
12
5
4
—


10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+3
13
5
4
Die Hard, Smite 2/Encounter


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+3
14
5
4
—


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+4
15
6
5
Steely Resolve 20


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+4
16
6
5
Mettle


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+4
17
6
5
Smite 3/Encounter


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+5
18
7
6
—


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+5
19
7
6
Steely Resolve 25


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+5
20
7
6
—


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+6
21
8
7
Smite 4/Encounter


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+6
22
8
7
—


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+6
23
8
7
Steely Resolve 30



Class Features

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Crusaders are proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light, medium, and heavy armour, and all shields.

Battle Prayer (Su): When you require more strength, or are left with few options, you may take a moment to pray, bolstering yourself through faith. As a Full-Round action, expend all your maneouvres in a show of divine force and fill your Reserve Buffer to 3. As your Reserve Buffer is full, at the end of the turn, your end and restart your recovery cycle as normal.
In addition, until the start of your next turn, you gain a +1 bonus to saving throws equal to your Furious Counterstrike bonus and DR/— equal to equal to five times your Furious Counterstrike bonus.

Manoeuvres: You begin your career with knowledge of five martial manoeuvres. The traditions available to you are Devoted Spirit, Eternal Mount, Falling Star, Stone Dragon, Unquiet Twilight, White Raven. Once you know a manoeuvre, you must ready it before you can use it.
A manoeuvre usable by crusaders is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Your manoeuvres are not affected by spell resistance, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate one.
You learn additional manoeuvres at higher levels, as shown on the table. See the table below to determine the highest-level manoeuvres you can learn. To learn a martial technique of higher levels, you must know a number of martial techniques of lower level as indicated on the table.
[/COLOR]
Highest Level Techniques Known




Initiator Level
Techiques Known
Prerequisite Techniques


1st-2nd
1st
—


3rd-4th
2nd
—


5th-6th
3rd
1


7th-8th
4th
1


9th-10th
5th
2


11th-12th
6th
2


13th-14th
7th
3


15th-16th
8th
3


17th+
9th
4



You can retrain your known manoeuvres and stances; this retraining takes 2 days per level of the new manoeuvre and requires a trainer who can initiate the desired manoeuvre or enter the desired stance. The new manoeuvre or stance must be part of your available traditions for the class, and must be of an equal level to the manoeuvre or stance it replaces.
A crusader’s initiation modifier is Charisma.

Manoeuvres Readied: You can ready two manoeuvres you know at 1st level. You ready manoeuvres by praying for 5 minutes. The manoeuvres you choose remain readied until you decide to pray again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time in order to ready your manoeuvres; any time you spend 5 minutes in prayer, you can change your readied manoeuvres. You begin an encounter with all your readied manoeuvres unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a manoeuvre, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied manoeuvres can be used once per encounter (unless you recover them, as described below).

You recover your maneouvres when you fill your Reserve Buffer, which happens in a cycle automatically. This starts at 0. At the end of each of your turns in combat, you select one manoeuvre from your Reserve. This maneouvre becomes readied and available for use on your next turn. Each maneouvre so readied adds 1 point to your Reserve Buffer. When your Reserve Buffer reachs 3 (i.e., you have draw three maneouvres from your Reserve), at the end of your next turn, you do not select a maneouvre from your reserve. Instead, you return any three of your maneouvers to your Reserve (they may be either readied or expended) and all of your remaining maneouvers are refreshed, your Reserve Buffer reset to 0 and the cycle begins again.

You may end and restart your cycle early by using Battle Prayer.

Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one stance from any tradition open to crusaders, the maximum level of which is determined from the Highest Level Techniques Known above. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 11th, 15th, and 18th level choose additional stances. Unlike manoeuvres, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you are currently using as a Swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with manoeuvres, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.

Steely Resolve (Ex): Your supreme dedication and intense focus allow you to temporarily set aside the pain and hindering effects of injuries. When an opponent strikes you, the injury does not immediately affect you. You have a delayed damage pool that allows you to forestall the effects of many injuries. This pool begins at 0 with each encounter. When you are attacked, any hit point damage the blow deals is added to your delayed damage pool. At the end of your next turn, you take damage equal to the total stored in your delayed damage pool, which then resets to 0. Any healing you receive can either increase your current hit point total as normal or reduce the total damage in your delayed damage pool. When you receive healing, you choose whether it affects your damage pool, your hit points, or both (you can split the amount of healing as you wish). Most crusaders opt to keep as much damage in their delayed damage pool as possible to maximize the benefit of their furious counterstrike ability (see below). Special effects tied to an attack, such as energy drain, stun, and so forth, still affect you as normal, and their effects are not delayed by this ability. For example, if you are bitten by a venomous spider, you must still attempt a Fortitude save against the poison immediately, even though the bite damage shifts into your delayed damage pool. By the same token, any other special attack that imposes a condition, such as a medusa’s petrifying gaze, takes immediate effect on you. At 1st level, your delayed damage pool can hold up to 5 points of damage. Any damage beyond that comes off your hit points as normal. The maximum damage your pool holds increases by 5 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level.

The 20th level increase is considered a capstone.

Furious Counterstrike (Ex): You can channel the pain of your injuries into a boiling rage that lets you lash out at your enemies with renewed vigour and power. Each attack that strikes you only pushes you onward to greater glory. During your turn, you gain a bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls equal to the current value of your delayed damage pool (see steely resolve, above) divided by 5, and rounding down (minimum +1). You can only gain a maximum bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls of +6 from furious counterstrike. Use the table below to quickly determine the attack bonus and damage bonus from furious counterstrike, based on the amount of damage in your delayed damage pool. This ability’s benefits last until the end of your turn.




[tr]
Delayed Damage Pool Points
Furious Counterstrike Bonus


1–9
+1


10–14
+2


15–19
+3


20–24
+4


25–29
+5


30+
+6



Indomitable Soul (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, you draw upon the power of your unwavering faith to steel yourself against the enemies you face. Your personality, energy, and dedication to your faith make it possible for you to shrug off attacks that target your willpower. You add your Charisma bonus as a bonus on Will saves. This bonus does not stack with that from a paladin’s Divine Grace ability.

Zealous Surge (Ex): Your boundless energy and dedication to your cause allow you to throw off the effect of a special attack, spell, or other attack that would otherwise hinder or harm you. Once per day, from 3rd level on, you can opt to reroll a single saving throw. You must abide by the result of the new, second saving throw, even if it is lower than the first. This ability does not require an action. You simply decide to use it after seeing the result of your saving throw roll but before the DM tells you if it fails or succeeds.

Smite (Ex): Driven by the courage of your convictions and the ironclad strength of your beliefs, you can strike back at those who dare stand against your cause. Starting at 6th level, once per encounter, you can concentrate all your anger, hatred, and determination into a single attack. This requires no actions, but you must choose to smite before making your attack roll. You add your Charisma bonus to your attack roll and deals an extra 2D6 damage. At 9th level, and every three levels thereafter, the smite damage increases by +D6. Your smite is only discharged on a hit (regardless of what you hit) or at the end of the encounter. You retains the bonus to hit until your smite is discharged.

This ability qualifies you for Smite feats.

At 10th level and every 4 levels thereafter, you gain an additional use of smite per encounter.

Die Hard (Ex): At 10th level, you gain Die Hard as a bonus feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

Mettle (Ex): You can resist magical attacks with greater effectiveness than other warriors. Beginning at 13th level, by drawing on your boundless energy and dedication to your cause, you can shrug off effects that would hinder even the toughest warrior. If you succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an attack that would normally produce a lesser effect on a successful save (such as a spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), you instead negate the effect. You do not gain the benefit of mettle when you are unconscious or sleeping.



I actually wrote this on Tuesday, but I was waiting for Mod permissions so not to double post. Not done anything else in the meantime (I've been having a bad couple of days, actually), but I have started to compile the maneouvres into a document so I can revised them and worked out HOW I'm going to do this, which is, I think, level by level and try and even the quanties out a bit. One of the things I looked at was PoW's stance scaling, and that'll be appluied back.

I am sticking with (when presented properly) Martial Spirit's new 3+ 1/2 initator level hit points, it's difference but about the same magnitude as the similar Path of War ability.

Sticking with changing pre-reqs to a unified system (i.e. (half level round up) -1) with some explict exceptions (e.g. Insightful Strike) determiend by keyword. Still debating whether to make prerequsites only limited by level (i.e., to learn any maneouvre of 3rd level, you need at least one 1st level maneouvre) oir whether to stick with by tradition (i.e. you must know 1st level white raven to learn 3rd level white raven).



Won't be much done now for about another week, since I'm away on Saturday (and like yesterday, unlike the past few weeks, I'm not up to Rules Stuff for what remains of today), but I wanted to get this at least up.

[Aotrs Commander]

I decided to tackle the presumed-simply job of updating the traditions skills and weapons => weapon groups.

This of course ended up sidetracking me off to add some additional weapons (sodding polearms, which nobody ever uses anyway, but I'm trying to persuade people to try..)

I am hoping to crank out stuff faster now I'm back, though to some extent I'm still figuring out how to approach the maneouvres themselves, whether to copy them all up (which I've started) and then go through and revise, or go level-by-level. Tomorrow, I am half-intending to try and sort some feats (notably tacking Extra Granted Maneouvre, Martial Study and Martial Stance, which will need changes/replacement.)


Edit Log: Changes since last edit in green.
13/06/2023 Missed adding Natural weapons group to Tiger Claw.
20/06/2023 Added note to Devoted Spirit about alignment (since prereqs are otherwise deleted).


Martial Traditions Overview


Weapon groups, provided for context.
Axe weapon group: Bardiche, Battleaxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, Heavy Pick, Light Hammer, Light Pick, Maul, Pickaxe, Throwing Axe, Waraxe, Warhammer
Bow weapon group: Composite Longbow, Composite Shortbow, Longbow, Shortbow
Close weapon group: Chakram, Gauntlet, Heavy Shield, Light Shield, Needle Claw, Punching Dagger, Spiked Gauntlet, Stake, Tonfa, Torch, Unarmed Strike
Concussion weapon group: Bec De Corbin, Club, Greatclub, Heavy Mace, Light Mace, Maul, Morningstar, Sap
Crossbow weapon group: Hand Crossbow, Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Repeating Light Crossbow, Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Dashing weapon group: Dagger, Dogslicer, Fighting Fan, Fuma Shuriken, Kukri, Kunai, Punching Dagger, Heavy Whip, Rapier, Siangham, Sickle, Short Sword, Spiked Gauntlet, Starknife, Wakizashi, Whip
Exhaled weapon group: Blowgun, Blowpipe
Firearm weapon group: All one-handed, two-handed, and siege firearms
Flail weapon group: Dire Flail, Light Flail, Heavy Flail, Meteor Hammer, Nunchaku, Three-Section Staff
Flurry weapon group: Kama, Nunchaku, Quarterstaff, Sai, Shuriken, Siangham, Three-Section Staff, Tonfa
Heavy Blade weapon group: Bastard Sword, Falchion, Greatsword, Longsword, Katana, Scimitar, Scythe, Two-Bladed Sword
Light Blade weapon group: Dagger, DogslicerG, Fighting Fan, Fuma Shuriken, Kukri, Rapier, Sickle, Short Sword, Wakizashi
Natural weapon group: all natural weapons and unarmed strikes.
Polearm weapon group: Polearm weapon group: Bardiche, Bec De Corbin, Fauchard, Glaive, Glaive-Guisarme, Guisarme, Halberd, HorsechopperG, Lance, Longspear, Naginata, Pike, Poleaxe, Spear, Shortspear, Trident
Siege weapon group: All siege weapons
Sling weapon group: Sling, War Sling
Spear weapon group: Javelin, Lance, Longspear, Pike, Spear, Shortspear, Trident
Splash weapon group: All splash weapons
Thrown weapon group: Bolas, Boomerang, Chakram, Club, Dagger, Dart, Fuma Shuriken, Heavy Bolas, Javelin, Lasso, Light Hammer, Net, Spear, Sai, Shortspear, Shuriken, Stake, Throwing Axe, Throwing Shield, Trident
Tribal weapon group: Atlatl, Boomerang, Club, Dagger, Greatclub, Handaxe, Heavy Shield, Light Shield, Spear, Shortspear, Throwing Axe, Unarmed Strike

Traditions

Desert Wind
Associated Skill: Acrobatics
Associated Weapon Groups: Axe, Concussion, Heavy Blade, Spear

Notes: While Path of War's disciplines mostly only have three groups, a couple have more, so for ease, I'm just going to leave this unchanged.

Devoted Spirit
Associated Skill: Intimidate
Associated Weapon Groups: Close, Concussion, Heavy Blade
Special Rules: Some maneouvres of the Devoted Spirit tradition are alignment-based. To learn these maneouvres, your alignment must match the descriptor of the maneouvre.

Notes: This was what caused the side-track, since "maul" was not in 3.Aotrs and I had to work out whether I really wanted it (in the end, I took the earth-breaker (which I hadn't bothered with before) and called it "maul" and in the process of Doing Weapons Research, ended up adding the Bec De Corbin (subsuming Lucerne Hammer, since they are very similar game stats and I can gaurentee no fracker will use one anyway...) and the Poleaxe (new)... Having determined that, Close was a logical one to add because shields (vis a vis PoW Iron Tortoise).

Diamond Mind
Associated Skill: Concentration
Associated Weapon Groups: Heavy Blade, Light Blade, Spear

Notes: For those playing without Concentration, I recommend substituting Sense Motive or possibly even Autohypnosis.

Eternal Mount
Associated Skill: Ride
Associated Weapon Groups: Heavy Blade, Light Blade, Spear
Special Rules: Some manoeuvres of the Eternal Mount tradition target your mount. These manoeuvres have a range of 0 ft., even if they affect you and your mount. For the purpose of determining whether a target is a mount, a mount is a friendly creature that is large enough to carry you and whose squares you occupy.
If a manoeuvre has a duration, you must stay mounted on your mount or the manoeuvre immediately ends. If a manoeuvre with a duration has an additional effect that depends on you being mounted, you immediately lose the additional effect if you dismount, but the manoeuvre otherwise functions as usual.

Falling Star
Associated Skill: Perception
Associated Weapon Groups: Bow, Crossbow, Exhaled, Firearm, Sling, Thrown
Special Rules: Falling Star's unconventional use of ranged attacks operate slightly differently than melee attacks when it comes to maneuvers. If a maneuver specifies a range of 'ranged attack,' it refers to an armed attack made with a thrown or projectile weapon; such an attack provokes attacks of opportunity as normal unless the maneuver specifies otherwise. These attacks are made within the usual range of the weapon, including all penalties if the target lies beyond the first range increment.
Furthermore, some supernatural Falling Star maneuvers (those marked with a * below) take 1 round to initiate. These operate like the Summon Nature's Ally spells do, in that the initiation takes a full-round action and continues past the end of your turn until the start of your next turn (this can be split using the Start/Complete Full-Round Action technique as normal). If you are damaged during this time, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10+maneuver level+damage dealt) or have the maneuver fail. Normally, maneuvers do not require concentration; Falling Star supernatural maneuvers that take 1 round to initiate do.

Notes: Okay, so here we have a bit of a problem. The original Falling Star would have given Bow and Thrown; the PoW ones give Bow, Crossbow, Firearm and Thrown. 3.Aotrs has Slings as their own group, and Exhaled (blowpipes) too... So I didn't see much alternative to going "all the ranged weapons?" Except for Rays.

Falling Star was also one I did have a player use previously in a campaign, and it was a bit... Variably balanced. For one, skimming through the maneouvers, it has save DC stats all over the place. I may ditch it entirely for Gale Tempest, which I suspect will likely be a bit more cohesive and playtested. Expect this to see significant revisions when I get down to going through the maneouvres themselves.

Iron Heart
Associated Skill: Acrobatics
Associated Weapon Groups: Axe, Heavy Blade, Spears

Notes: Iron Heart was supposed to be "do gooder with generic weapons" seemingly, and it only would have had axe and heavy blade, so I figured, like sod it, Spears, the most common of all weapons? (I considered polearms, but felt that, as a Team-based Weapon, they'd fit better rounding out Whit Raven.) I an open to an arguement for light blades instead if anyone wants to make one.

Setting Sun
Associated Skill: Sense Motive
Associated Weapon Groups: Close, Flurry, Light Blade

Shadow Hand
Associated Skill: Stealth
Associated Weapon Groups: Close, Flail, Light Blade

Spirit Fox
Associated Skill: Acrobatics
Associated Weapon Groups: Close, Flurry, Light Blade

Stone Dragon
Associated Skill: Acrobatics
Associated Weapon Groups: Axe, Close, Concussion, Heavy Blade
Special Rules: Some Stone Dragon maneouvres use your Strength bonus in place of your initiator modifier for save DCs. Stone Dragon manoeuvres can be initiated only if you are in contact with the ground.

Notes: I almost dropped the "only on the ground clause;" but then realised as part of my Don't Screw Existing PCs policy, a lot of Stone Dragon strikes use Str as the DC modifier. That seemed like a fair trade to let them keep that, balanced by the "can't use if off ground."

Tiger Claw
Associated Skill: Jump
Associated Weapon Groups: Axe, Close, Light Blade, Natural

Unquiet Twilight
Associated Skill: Knowledge (Religion)
Associated Weapon Groups: Close, Heavy Blade, Light Blade

White Raven
Associated Skill: Diplomacy
Associated Weapon Groups: Axe, Heavy Blade, Polearm

Notes: As with Iron Heart, ToB only gave 'em axe and heavy blade. As polearms are really a formation weapon, this seemed a natural fit here instead of Iron Heart.

[Aotrs Commander]

Feats done for the most part.

Primarily, this was tidying up stuff like skills and weapon to weapon groups but also sorting out maneouvres and recovery and whatnot. Feats unchanged from ToB are not done in full, and I've included a short list of PoW feats (also unchanged) that I have imported wholesale that I recommend be used even if you're not going full PoW.

As noted previous consider the Falling star stuff very nominal at present.

Edit Log: Changes since last edit in green.
22/06/2023: Various tweaks from a discovered simialr project.
24/06/2023: Reworded Extra Reserve Maneouvre to match new crusader wording; fixed Blade Meditation

Martial Feats:

Unchanged from Path of War:
Advanced Study (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/feats/advanced-study-combat/)
Daisho Expertise (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/feats/daisho-expertise-combat/)
Martial Charge (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/feats/martial-charge-combat/)
Weapon Group Adaptation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/feats/weapon-group-adaptation-combat/)

Unchanged from ToB:
Avenging Strike
Desert Fire
Evasive Reflexes
Falling Sun Attack
Ironheart Aura
Rapid Assault
Shadow Trickster
Snap Kick
Superior Unarmed Strike
Tiger Blooded
Unnerving Calm (but replace Concentration with Autohypnosis if not using Concentration skill)

Psychic Renewal

Clarion Commander
Faith Unswerving
Sun School


Deprecated:
Scribe Martial Script (Use Path of War's method of using Scribe Scroll or Scribe Tattoo). I have never heard anyone even talk about martial scripts, let alone use them, let alone consider taking an item creation feat at the best of times.
Martial Stance




General/Combat Feats

Adaptive Style
With just a short period of meditation, you can change your maneuvers and tactics to meet the threat you currently face.
Prerequisites: Initiator level 1st
Benefit: You can change your readied maneuvers at any time by taking a Full-Round action. This refreshes and resets your maneouvres as if you had taken a Short Rest. If you are a Crusader, you return any additional granted maneouvres to your Reserve and begin the cycle of receiving them again on your next turn.
Normal: You can change maneuvers only by spending 5 minutes to do so.

Notes: As ToB classes are retaining their refresh methods, Adaptive Style may as well stay. Note that "short rest" here is essentially a more codifed version of "1 minute's rest after combat signifying the end of the encounter", as 3.Aotrs shamelessly stole the terminology of short and long rest from 5e.

Blade Meditation
You have learned a meditation that grants you insight into the martial traditions you have studied.
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate three manoeuvres of a single tradition.
Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a tradition. You gain a +2 bonus to saving throw DCs when using maneuvers of the selected tradition and a +2 bonus on checks involving the traditons's key skill.
When you wield a weapons from that tradition’s weapon group, you gain a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls.
At 12th level, Fighters increase this bonus by +2. Brawlers, Samurai and Swashbucklers count their class levels as fighter levels (and they all stack) for this purposes as do Warblades using their class level –2.

At 12th level, Fighters increase this bonus by +2. Brawlers, Samurai and Swashbucklers count their class levels as fighter levels (and they all stack) for this purposes as do Warblades using their class level –2.
Special: If you ever has fewer than three manoeuvres known from the specialized tradition, then you lose the benefits of this feat until such a time that you do.

You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different tradition.

Notes: Blade Meditation stabs Discipline Focus and steals its stuff. And, as with many such feats in 3.Aotrs, if 3.5/PF1 do it differently, it does both. As this is strictly an upgrade to Blade Meditiation, I left Blade Meditation's prereqs - after all Weapon specialisation and ray specialisation have to wait for 4th level AND this adds DC and skills too. Again, if you're not using Concentration, substitute another skill (Knowledge (Martial) or Autohypnosis seem logical) or just drop it entirely. Changed my mind.

Speaking of fighters, this seemed a good place to add one of the infrequent "Fighters get special stuff on top of feats" lists; on top of this, I will be adding archtypes to the mentioned classes for limited adept progression, because it seems like a natural fit, so it's not entirely dependant on being cross-class.

Desert Wind Dodge
Your training in the Desert Wind discipline allows you to dance across the battlefield like a blistering sirocco.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, one Desert Wind manoeuvre
Benefit: If you move at least 10 feet from your original position, you gain a+1 Dodge bonus to AC and deal an extra 1 point of Fire damage with any attack you make with a eapon from the Axe, Concussion, Heavy Blade or Spear weapon groups. This benefit lasts until the start ofi your next turn.
Special: Desert Wind Dodge can be used in place of Dodge to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. If you already have Dodge when you select Desert Wind Dodge, you can choose to lose the Dodge feat and gain a new feat in its place. You must meet the prerequisite for the new feat.

Devoted Bulwark
Because of your staunch devotion to your cause and your Devoted Spirit training, you can stand your ground even in the face of an enemy's resounding attack.
Prerequisites: One Devoted Spirit manoeuvre
Benefit: If an enemy deals damage to you with a melee attack, you gain a +1 morale bonus to your AC and CMD until the end of your next turn.


Eternal Charger
The Eternal Mount tradition teaches martial adepts to initiate mounted charges with devastating consequences. You have mastered the art of charging to the extent of being able of defending yourself while charging.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, one Eternal Mount manoeuvre.
Benefit: If you are mounted, you do not take the usual –2 penalty to AC you incur while charging.
Normal: You incur a –2 to Armour Class while charging.

Extra Reserve Manoeuvre
You are especially devout or insightful, and you have more control over which of your martial manoeuvres are currently granted than other crusaders.
Prerequisites: Crusader level 1st.
Benefit: You increase your number of readied maneouvres by 1. Your Reserve Buffer only needs 2 points to end to restart your recovery cycle, and you likewise only have to return two maneouvres to your reserve at the end of your cycle.
Normal: A Crusader’s recovery cycle restarts when their Reserve Buffer has 3 points and they have to return three maneouvres to their reserve at the end of the cycle.

Notes: Replaces Extra Granted Maneouvre

Extra Readied Manoeuvre
You have learned how to increase your ability to maintain martial forms in your mind.
Prerequisite: Ability to initiate a martial manoeuvre.
Benefit: Choose a martial disciple class you have levels in. Your manoeuvres readied for that class increases by one.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times, applying it to multiple classes (if you possess multiple initiator classes) or multiple times to single class. This feat may not alter manoeuvres readied from the Martial Training feat chain.

Falling Star Shot
The Falling Star style teaches you how to affect a battle through ranged attacks. You can shoot an opponent in precisely the right way to disrupt his defence or his offense.
Prerequisites: One Falling Star strike.
Benefit: As a Standard action, you can make a ranged attack roll. If this attack succeeds, the target takes a –2 penalty on his Armour Class or melee attack rolls. You choose which penalty the target takes before you make the attack roll. This penalty lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

Lance of the Fates [Combat]
As a trained student of both Falling Star and more traditional paths of the Sublime Way, you can grasp the inner secrets innate to blade magic, and apply the techniques of one school to the other.
Prerequisites: Two Falling Star manoeuvres, 2 ranks in Perception, two manoeuvres from any other single school, 2 ranks in that school’s key skill, base attack bonus +3.
Benefit: When you initiate a manoeuvre from a trained school that has a range of “melee attack” and affects a single target, you may also expend a readied Falling Star manoeuvre of equal or greater level. If you do, the manoeuvre you initiate has its range replaced with “ranged attack” (as defined above). All other limitations of the manoeuvre apply as normal.

If you initiate a Falling Star manoeuvre with a range of “ranged attack”, you may also expend a readied manoeuvre from a trained school. If you do, the Falling

Star manoeuvre has its range replaced with “melee Attack” (as defined in the Tome of Battle). All other limitations of the manoeuvre apply as normal.

Manoeuvres expended to power Lance of the Fates are expended without effect, but may be recovered normally.

For the purpose of this feat, a “trained school” is a school from which you know two or more manoeuvres and have 2 or more ranks in its key skill.
Special: To use this feat, you must be under the open sky, as you would for a Falling Star supernatural manoeuvre.

Martial Rider
You are skilled at making your mount fight along with you in battle.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: You treat any mount as if it was trained for war. This means that you can make your own attacks while your mount attacks if you make a successful DC 15 Ride check. In addition, you don’t have to control your mount in battle. (See the Ride skill.)
If you have at least 2 ranks in Ride, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make while mounted. This bonus increases to +2 at 7 ranks, +3 at 12 ranks, +4 at 17 ranks and +5 at 22 ranks. Your mount gains this bonus as well.
Normal: A mount must be trained for combat riding with a DC 20 Handle Animal check.
Special: Martial Rider can be used in place of Mounted Combat to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Mounted Combat

Martial Study [Combat]
You’ve learned the basics in a martial tradition.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +3 or Knowledge (Martial) 3 ranks.
Benefit: Select a martial tradition. The associated skill for this tradition is now a class skill. Your initiation modifier is chosen from Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Your martial initiator level for manoeuvres granted by this feat is equal to half your character level + your initiation modifier. You may select any two manoeuvres from the 1st level manoeuvres from this tradition, and you may ready one of your manoeuvres for use. You may recover one manoeuvre by expending a Full-Round action to recover it.
Special: You may select this feat up to 6 times. Each time, the Base Attack Bonus and Knowledge (Martial) prerequisites increase by +2.

Each time you select this feat, you learn new maneouvres or stances as indicated on the table below, of up to the level indicated. You must meet the initator level requirements to select a maneouvre or stance of that level. You can ready a number of these maneouvres equal to the number of times you have taken this feat.


Selection
Maximum level of Manouvres


1
2 × 1st


2
2 × 2nd or 1 × 2nd plus 1 × 2nd stance


3
1 × 3rd plus 1 × 3rd stance


4
2 × 4th


5
1 × 4th; 2 × 5th or 1 × 5th plus 1 × 5th stance; swap one manouvre of 4th level or lower for one of the same level


6
1 × 5th; 2 × 6th or 1 × 6th plus 1 × 6th stance; swap one manouvre of 5th level or lower for one of the same level



If you ever gain levels in a martial adept class or possess them previously, these maneuvers continue to use their own initiator level and recovery method, independent of your martial adept level. Those wishing to add new maneuvers from a discipline that is already available to their class should instead select the Advanced Study feat instead.

Notes: This and the following feat were the hardest to deal with. On the one hand, Martial Training is better in most regards than Martial Study and Martial Stance... But on the other, you could use the latter to get a manouvre and stance from level 1. On top of that, six layered feats wouldn't sit in my feats table and the extra entries were really unnecessary. Martial Study thus killed Martial Training and stole its stuff, and compiled back to one feat you selected more than once. (It is not the only feat where each selection increases the pre-reqs, I should note, so there's standing president in 3.Aotrs.) In keeping with my "I don't want to freaking back-work martial adept NPCs" I took the same approach as with the character classes - swap out restricted to same level, but also maneouvre of the level you hace swapped to.

Martial Stance was transmuted into Martial Talent, which is changed into basically a martial equivalent of Hidden Talent, ad you-can-only-take-it-at-1st-level. That patches the holes reasonably.

Martial Talent [Combat]
You have mastered the fundamentals of a martial discipline, and you are now able to master one of its stances.
Prerequisites: This feat can only be taken at 1st level.
Benefit: Select one 1st level maneouvre from any martial tradition. You learn this maneouvre.
If you have a level in a martial adept class, this maneouvre is added to your maneouvres known for that class.

If you do not have levels on a martial adept class, you instead can ready your chosen maneouvre. You can recover it by using a Full-Round action. Your initiator level for this maneouvre is half your character level (minimum 1).

Special: If you later gain a level in martial adpet class or take the Martial Study feat, you may associate the maneouvre gained from this feat to either the class or the Martial study feat. If you do so, you lose the ability to ready or recover it seperately, but it instead becomes an extra maneouvre known for for that class or the Martial Study feat.

If you associate it with the Martial Study feat after taking this feat, the maneouvre granted by this feat is treated as being one of the manouvres granted by Martial Study for the purposes of initator level and recovery. In addition, you can choose to learn a 1st level stance instead of one of the 1st level maneouvres when you take that feat.

Shadow Blade
In the course of your training in the Shadow Hand discipline. you learn to use your natural agility and speed to augment your attacks with certain weapons.
Prerequisites: One Shadow Hand manoeuvre.
Benefit: While you are in a Shadow Hand stance and attack with a Close, Flail or Light Blade weapon, you can add your Dexterity modifier as a bonus on melee damage for attacks made with the weapon.
Special: Shadow Blade can be used in place of Weapon Finesse to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. If this substitution allows you to gain a benefit that normally applies to all finesse weapons (those described in the Weapon Finesse feat description), it instead applies only to Close, Flail or Light Blade weapons.

Silence The Unquiet
You can strike the Undead with deadly precision that others lack because you know exactly where to land your blows and cause most damage.
Prerequisites: One Unquiet Twilight manoeuvre
Benefit: You gain the ability to inflict precision damage to Undead.

Notes: In 3.Aotrs, Undead are immune to precision damage (but not critical hits). If Undead are already vulnerable to precision damage, then I suggest replacing this with a +4 bonus to confirm critical hits against Undead.

Song of the White Raven
The White Raven discipline shows you how to rouse determination and fervor within your allies' hearts. Such teachings can augment and improve your musical ability.
Prerequisites: Bardic performance (Inspire Courage), one White Raven manoeuvre.
Benefit: While you are in any White Raven stance, you can activate your bardic performance ability to inspire courage as a Swift action. Your crusader and warblade levels stack with your bard levels to determine the bonus granted by your Inspire Courage ability.

Stone Power
The principles of the Stone Dragon discipline teach you how to gather and focus your raw, physical strength into an attack.
Prerequisites: Str 13, one Stone Dragon manoeuvre
Benefit: You can choose to take a −1 penalty on attack rolls and combat manoeuvre checks to gain 2 temporary hit points. This bonus is increased by half (50%) when you are using a shield of any kind. When your base attack bonus reaches +3 and every +2 thereafter, the penalty increases by −1 and the temporary hit point bonus increases by 2. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an Attack action or a Full Attack action with a melee weapon, or when you are initiating a manoeuvre. The penalty to attack rolls and temporary hit points gained from use of this feat last until the start of your next turn.
Special: Stone Power can be used in place of Power Attack to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Power Attack.

Notes: Stone Power stabs Martial Power and takes its stuff. I don't consider the effort to create a replacement feat for Stone Power and the really niche appeal of the feat itself to be worth just taking Martial Power directly. (Strictly, 3.A would be Str 12, since this current pass eliminates all odd feat pre-reqs.)

Sudden Recovery
You can instantly recover your focus, balance, and personal energy after using a martial manoeuvre.
Prerequisites: Ability to initiate martial manoeuvres.
Benefit: As a Free action, after you’ve use a martial strike, counter, or boost, you may instantly recover that maneuver. You may do this once per day.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times, gaining multiple uses per day.
If you have at least one level of Fighter, you can use this feat an additional time per day, plus one additional time for every 5 levels of fighter, but you can only use these additional uses to recover maneouvres granted by the Martial Study or Martial Talent feats.

Notes: Sudden Recovery stabs Lightning Recovery and steals its stuff. This is another "Fighter get to have special feat abilities" as well.

Twilight Power
You can channel necromantic energies much more efficiently when invoking Unquiet Twilight's powers.
Prerequisites: Caster level 1st, One Unquiet Twilight stance
Benefit: You gain +2 to your save DCs on Necromantic spells while in an Unquiet Twilight Stance.

Vital Recovery
Preparing yourself to execute more of yourmaneuvers gives you the chance to catch a quick second wind and recover from damage you have sustained in the fight.
Prerequisites: Two martial manoeuvres.
Benefit: Each time you recover one or more expended maneuvers during an encounter, you heal 3 points of damage + 1 point per character level. You can only gain this benefit once per round, regardless of how many maneouvres you recover.

White Raven Defence
The White Raven discipline has taught you to shine as a gleaming beacon of hope and endurance amid the chaos of battle. Not only do you aid your allies, but you also draw strength and support from them.
Prerequisites: One White Raven manoeuvre.
Benefit: When you are in a White Raven stance and adjacent to at least one ally, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and CMD. Furthermore, when you are wielding an Axe, Heavy Blade or Polearm weapon, each ally adjacent to you gains a +1 bonus to AC. These bonuses don't apply when you're Flat-Footed.

White Raven General
As an experienced White Raven adept, you understand that a general is only as good as the troops he leads, and as such you have learned to adapt your commands to fit the situation, inspiring your troops to execute somewhat more complicated tactics than normal.
Prerequisites: Imperative Aura, Command Presence +2, three White Raven martial techniques (at least one of which must be a stance)
Benefit: While in a White Raven stance, you may project a second minor aura. Doing so takes a separate Swift action from projecting your other auras or assuming the stance, and can be done any number of times while in the stance. If you enter a stanceless state or any stance from a tradition other than White Raven, this second aura fades.
Normal: You may only have one minor aura and one major aura active at the same time.
Special: If you possess the Battlefield Adaptation ability, you may adjust this additional aura at the same time you change your other auras or your stance.

Notes: Class specific feat for Marshal class (see later in project!)



Divine Feats

Divine Spirit
The fervour and dedication of the Devoted Spirit discipline, combined with your fanatical adherence to a divine power, turns you into a font of spiritual energy. With only a moment's focus, you can channel power to enhance your fighting talents.
Prerequisites: Channel Energy, one Devoted Spirit stance
Benefit: While in a Devoted Spirit stance, you can expend 1 channel use as an Immediate action to heal yourself a number of hit points equal to 2 points per character level.


Psionic Feats

Instant Clarity [Psionic]
You have sharpened your concentration to the point that you can focus your psionic abilities with just an instant's thought.
Prerequisite: Concentration 4 ranks
Benefit: You can take a Swift action to become psionically focused after successfully initiating a martial strike. You can use this ability three times per day.
Special: Instant Clarity can be used in place of the Psionic Meditation to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Psionic Meditation.
Normal: A character without this feat must take a Full-Round action to become psionically focused.

Notes: Again, if not using Concentration, substitute Autohypnosis.



Tactical Feats

Astral Arrow
As an initiate of the Falling Star style, you know that an adversary subdued in ranged combat poses no threat in melee. You use your skill with ranged weapons to subdue and confound your opponents. You have learned the Astral Arrow fighting form, a set of combat manoeuvres that are based upon the Falling Star philosophy, to enhance these tactics.
Prerequisites: Falling Star Shot, base attack bonus +6, two Falling Star manoeuvres .
Benefit: The Astral Arrow feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Intervening Shot: To use this option, you must select an ally who threatens an opponent, and you must ready an action to fire when that ally attacks that opponent. If your ally successfully attacks that opponent, you may add a +2 bonus to either your attack roll or your ally's, representing the foe's inability to defend himself from two attacks at once. You must announce that you are using this ability before you or your ally makes an attack roll; therefore, neither of you gains any bonus if your ally misses.

Mark of Stars: To use this option, you must successfully attack an opponent with a Falling Star strike. On your next turn, you must hit that foe again and make a DC 20 Spellcraft check. If you succeed, the target is surrounded by motes of light, reminiscent of stars, that negate any concealment for D6 rounds. If the target is the target of an effect that grants him concealment (such as Blur or Invisibility) after he is affected by this effect, this effect immediately ends.

Unfettered Flight: To use this option, you must make a ranged attack. If the ranged attack misses, the ranged weapon continues in a straight line as if it was never meant to hit the target of the attack. If the ranged weapon comes into an occupied square, you may make a ranged attack against that creature instead, albeit at a –2 penalty. You must announce that you are using this option before you make your attack roll. Using this option is a Standard action.

Distant Horizon
An initiate of the Setting Sun sometimes learns a set of combat manoeuvres that combine to create the Distant Horizon fighting form. This form teaches you how to recognize an opponent's weaknesses in the current moment, as well as in the future. A blow struck now ruins an opponent's defences against your next volley of attacks.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Falling Sun Attack, base attack bonus +6, two Setting Sun manoeuvres
Benefit: The Distant Horizon feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Continued Push: To use this option, you must move an opponent at least 5 feet with a bull rush attack or a Setting Sun strike. On your next turn, you gain a +4 bonus to CMB on combat manoeuvres checks you make against that foe.

Turn the Tables: To use this option, a foe must charge you and either miss you with his charge attack or be unable to attempt the attack (perhaps because of your use of a manoeuvre). On your next turn, you can make a charge attack against that foe even if you cannot move more than 5 feet. You can also make a charge attack against that enemy even if you cannot charge in a straight line.

Lasting Weak Spot: To use this option, you must hit a foe that you flank with at least two melee attacks on your turn. On your next turn, as a Standard action, you can make a single melee attack against your foe with a−2 penalty. If this attack hits, your foe takes an extra 1 point of damage from every melee attack that hits him for the next minute.

Everlasting Harmony
You know the teachings of the Eternal Mount by heart. When you are mounted, you move as if you were one with your mount. Because of this, you have mastered several tactics together with your mount that would make others fall off of their mounts at the least.
Prerequisites: Mounted Combat, Ride 1 rank, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: The Everlasting Harmony feat enables the use of three tactical options. Your mount must be trained for combat riding in order to use any of these tactical options (see the Handle Animal Skill in the Player’s Handbook).
Defend as One: You may use the Mounted Combat feat against more than one attack. However, you suffer a –2 penalty on each consecutive attempt to use the Mounted Combat feat.

Ride as One: To use this option, you must be mounted. As a Swift action, you may choose one square that is adjacent to your mount. You treat this square as if you occupied it for the purpose of determining your reach and threatened area, replacing your normal reach and threat area. (If you are Large or bigger, you effectively shift your reach and threatened area by 5’.) Your actual space (or spaces if Large or bigger) are treated as having total cover relative to your new, effective position.

Strike as One: To use this option, you or your mount must attack an opponent. If the attack succeeds, you must make a Ride check as an Immediate action. Prior to making the roll, you must determine the DC of the check; either DC 10 to gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls or DC 20 to gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls. If you make the check, both you and your mount gain the bonus against that opponent until the end of the turn.

Gloom Razor
The teachings of the Shadow Hand discipline allow you to confuse your enemies. Your attacks and parries are infused with the stuff of shadow. Through careful training and discipline, you learn to use your ki to inhibit a foe's fighting ability with your shadowy nature.
Prerequisites: Stealth 6 ranks, Shadow Blade, base attack bonus +6, two Shadow Hand manoeuvres
Benefit: The Gloom Razor feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Lingering Gloom: To use this option, your opponent must miss you due to Concealment. On your next turn, you can make a Stealth check opposed by your foe's spot Perception check as a Swift action. If this check succeeds, you gain the benefit of an Invisibility spell against that foe until the end of your turn.

Moving Shadows: To use this option, you must deal damage to an enemy with a melee attack and move at least 10 feet during your turn. On your next turn, you can treat that enemy as Flat-Footed against the first melee attack you make in that round.

Shadow Slip: To use this option, you must make a successful melee attack against an opponent you flank. On your next turn, you can make a DC 20 Acrobatics check if you are adjacent to your foe. If this check succeeds, as a Free action you can move to any square adjacent to your opponent without provoking attacks of opportunity from any opponent.

Perfect Clarity of Mind and Body
Your mastery of the Diamond Mind discipline allows you to tap into reserves of spiritual and physical strength that other warriors cannot imagine using. Through focus, dedication, and a heightened awareness of your inner talents, you push yourself beyond your limits.
Prerequisites: Unnerving Calm, base attack bonus +6, two Diamond Mind manoeuvres
Benefit: The Perfect Clarity of Mind and Body feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Coiled Spring: To use this option, you must use the Total Defense action and move no more than 5 feet on your turn. On your next turn, you gain a +30-foot bonus to your land speed and a +2 bonus to AC and CMD as you burst across the battlefield. You can make a single attack after moving in this round, if you don't move more than double your modified speed.
Pearl Mind: To use this option, you must first defeat an enemy in a duel of wills (see Master Rules under Intimidate). On your next turn, you gain a +4 morale bonus on any roll you make to disarm, feint, or trip that enemy.
Press The Advantage: To use this option, you must damage, disarm, or trip an opponent. On your next turn, you can make a DC 20 Concentration check against your opponent as a Free action. If this check succeeds, your foe takes a −2 penalty on attack rolls for 1 round.


Reaping Talons
When fighting with the Tiger Claw discipline's preferred weapons, you can use a variety of combat options that maximise the benefits of wielding two weapons.
Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6, two Tiger Claw manoeuvres
Benefit: The Reaping Talons feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Focused Assault: To use this option, you must fight defensively, use the Total Defense action, or use the Combat Expertise feat. You must also wield any two Axe, Close, Light Blade or Natural weapons and move no more than 5 feet. Keep track of each opponent that attacks you after you take that action. On your next turn, as a Full-Round action, you can make a single melee attack against each of the opponents that attacked you on the previous round at your highest attack bonus. You must still threaten the enemies you attack with this option.

Cornered Predator: To use this option, you must hit your foe with two attacks that each use one Axe, Close, Light Blade or Natural weapon. On your next turn, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls against this foe for each opponent that threatens you.

Talon Shield: To use this option, you must hit the your foe with two attacks that each use one Axe, Close, Light Blade or Natural weapon. On your next turn, if you fight defensively or use the Total Defense action, you gain a +2 shield bonus to AC against that foe (in addition to the normal AC bonus granted by that action.

Scorching Sirocco
As a student of the Desert Wind, the burning fury of the desert sirocco is at your command, in battle, you call upon its power to burn your enemy and lend you speed.
Prerequisites: Desert Wind Dodge, base attack bonus +6, two Desert Wind manoeuvres.
Benefit: The Scorching Sirocco feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Dance of Flames: To use this option, you must move at least 10 feet and initiate a Desert Wind stance. On your next turn, you gain a +2 bonus on Acrobatics checks. If you succeed on an Acrobatics check to avoid an attack of opportunity, the opponent whose attack you avoided takes 1D6 points of Fire damage as mystical flames twirl around you.

Fan the Flames: To use this option, you must deal fire damage to a foe. On your next turn, you can attempt a DC 20 Acrobatics check as a move action. You must be adjacent to the target to use this ability. If you succeed, your opponent catches fire.

Mark of Fire: To use this option, you must deal fire damage to a foe with a Desert Wind strike. On your next turn, you must deal fire damage to that foe again and make a DC 20 Spellcraft check. If you succeed, the flames spread across your target, granting your allies a +2 bonus on attack rolls and CMB against her for 1 round.

Shards of Granite
Like the great Stone Dragon, you hammer through your opponents' defenses using raw, brutal strength. Each blow sunders steel, shatters bone, and cleaves through flesh. With each successive attack you make, you hit with greater force.
Prerequisites: Stone Power, base attack bonus +6, two Stone Dragon manoeuvres
Benefit: The Shards of Granite feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Battering Smash: To use this option, you must make a successful melee attack using an Axe, Close, Concussion, Heavy Blade weapon and use your Stone Power feat, with an additional −3 penalty. If you hit, you ignore the target's hardness (if any).

Eviscerating Strike: To use this option, you must hit the same creature at least two times in the same round using an Axe, Close, Concussion, Heavy Blade weapon. On your next turn, you ignore any penalty you take on your attack roll from your Stone Power feat when making a roll to confirm a critical hit.

Unstoppable Onslaught: To use this option, you must make a successful melee attack using an Axe, Close, Concussion, Heavy Blade weapon, and use your Stone Power feat, with an additional −3 penalty. If you hit, your melee attacks against that creature on your next turn overcomes its Damage Reduction (if any).

Notes: With some of the "just use combat expertise/power attack with -5 or more" stuff, I've just replaced it with "use feat", but in this case, given how freaking powerful it would be, I felt the additional -3 penalty for, like, being able to ignore damage reduction essentially entirely was warrented.

Stormguard Warrior
The Stormguard Warrior feat encompasses a number of the more advanced tactics and techniques you would use as a student of the Iron Heart school.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with Axe, Heavy Blade or Spear weapon, Ironheart Aura, base attack bonus +6, two Iron Heart manoeuvres.
Benefit: The Stormguard Warrior feat enables the use of three tactical options.

Channel the Storm: To use this option, you must choose to refrain from making one or more available attacks of opportunity against a single opponent. On your next turn, you gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls for each attack that you refrained from making against the same opponent. You gain this bonus only against an opponent that you refrained from making an attack of opportunity against in the previous round.
Combat Rhythm: To use this option, you can choose to make melee touch attacks in place of normal melee attacks against an opponent. These touch attacks deal no damage. For each melee touch attack that hits, you gain a +5 bonus on melee damage rolls against that same foe on your next turn.

Fight the Horde: To use this option, you must deal damage to at least two different foes on your turn with melee attacks or Iron Heart strikes. On your next turn, if you fight defensively or use your Combat Expertise feat (if you have it), you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls against any foe you damaged with a melee attack or Iron Heart strike during the previous turn.

Twilight Master
Prerequisites: Silence the Unquiet, Base Attack Bonus +6, two Unquiet Twilight manoeuvres
Benefit: The Twilight Master feat allows the use of three tactical options.
Slay the Unliving: To use this ability, you must be in an Unquiet Twilight Stance and successfully hit a Construct (or similarly unalive creature) with a Unquiet Twilight strike that deals negative energy damage (it does not matter if the creature is immune to negative energy). You may then make a DC 25 Knowledge (Religion) or a DC 20 Knowledge (Arcana) check. If you succeed, you gain a +2 to attack and damage against that creature until the end of the encounter (this bonuses does not stack with itself) as you use the burst of negative energy to track the creature's animating or powering force and know where to strike to disrupt it best.

Death Beacon: To use this ability, you must be in an Unquiet Twilight Stance and deal negative energy damage (or inflict at least one negative energy level) to a foe in melee with a melee attack (or touch spell or power). You may then make a DC 20 Knowledge (Religion) check as a Free action. If you succeed, all animated Undead under your control gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls against that foe until the start of your next action.

Power of Death: To use this ability, you must kill a foe with negative energy damage (or negative energy levels) and not animate that foe with any manoeuvres . As an Immediate action, you may make a DC 20 Knowledge (Religion) check. if you succeed, you gain a +1 bonus to weapon damage rolls for 1 minute.

[Aotrs Commander]

After consideration, I have decided to just have all martial techniques (that is maneouvres and stances) have a global pre-req of a requirement of a number of manouvres of lower level of (1/2 (level - 1)), round down. (I.e. 3-4 = 1, 5-6 = 2, 7-8 = 3, 9 = 4) and disregard both the school requirement (making them more like spells, invocations and powers) and any existsing variance in pre-reqs. It's just easier. (Revised Crusader above.)




My next step, after consideration, is the labourious task of copy/pasting and formatting the ToB maneouvres into my document, so that I can then go through later for balance checks, at which point I'm planning to go through level by level, comparing all ToB to Path of War.

As I'm doing this, I'm catching a few tweaks (like skill changes etc), but nothing more extensive.

As usual, of course, I got part-way through and then ended up going back to sort stuff out: to twit, I realised I had not been implementing any unoffical ToB errata (found something from 2011 (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0), actually thought it was official for a bit), because I was copy/pasting from a PDF, not looking at my actual hardcopy where it's likely marked in pencil (since that would also require me emptying my 90-litre RPG backpack to get to it.) So, back through everything done so far to fix THAT first1. Net result, I only got as far as Desert Wind reformatted and Devoted Spirit with the errata...



Meanwhile, a couple of issues have come up that seem like they could use some feedback.


First of all, tradition (i.e. discipline) exchanges. On the one hand, I don't especially feel like making a load of special archetypes for the sake of it. I am not using Path of War's martial traditions (which is why I was comfortable pouching "traditions"); I unilaterally disregard anything tied to fluff organisations in my mechanics on principle. (PrCs etc.) I also don't use traits, except at the very start of adventure paths, and then either a) straight out of the campaign's player's guide and b) straight otu of the Pathfinder Traits book. I thus just REALLY don't want to have to compile trait document or list on top of everything else JUST to accomodate the Unothadox Method.

So, this leaves me as I see with two options.

1) Make it a feat. That seems a little steep for the cost, so it'd have to do something else as well.

2) Make in an alternate class feature. (3.Aotrs tends to be a bit lose with ACF verses archetypes, the twain are essentially the same, but the ACFs are usually defined as just being a single feature like in 3.5.) On the one hand, that's easy, okn the other... How to balance it as a swap. Using PoW's admittedly easier method of just getting the extra skill would mean you'd be getting a variant tradition and potentiall class skill for free. Removing the class skill (but noly it if isn't tied to another tradition) sounds like it would be more of a pain.

One option would be to have the swap be you swap the tradition, but you DON'T get the skill, so that'd be a slight trade-off.

Any suggestions?



Secondly, in looking that up I came across Path of War's retraining rules.


Retraining: Initiators can retrain their known manoeuvres and stances; this retraining takes 2 days per level of the new manoeuvre and requires a trainer who can initiate the desired manoeuvre or enter the desired stance. The new manoeuvre or stance must be part of the initiator’s available disciplines for the class, and must be of an equal or lower level to the manoeuvre or stance it replaces. Note that this is unrelated to the ability of initiators to swap manoeuvres for higher-level ones at certain initiator levels; that swap represents the initiator’s evolving style of combat, does not require a trainer, cannot replace stances, and can happen only once at a given level.

So. As it stands, I have removed the ability to swap low-levels for high levels (instead you just get more maneouvres) but you can only swap maneouvres like you could spells.

Obviously, I can't do both of these.

The question remains, then, which way to go.

One, Leave it as it is, you can't swap out maneouvres easily, like you can't spells or powers and stuff (except at level up, where I am usually willing to let people swap stuff out, though not to the point that you would make a build where that was a key feature.)

Two: Let everyone retrain their maneouvres as much as they like within those time limits like path of war and drop the class-level-based swapping entirely. I'm (increasingly, the more I think about it) leaning towards that on the basis that it actually uses less paragraph space, but I'm open to any counter-arguement.




1I'm fracking NOT errata'ing Snap Kick, we've been playing with it as an extra bonus attack (on top of Flurry, TWF and Haste) and solely because I am NOT, repeat NOT going through my mate's level 15 monk attack rountines (because he decided to do TWF fighting with a monk with flurry and have Kama with DIFFERENT BONUSES) again, not even if that was in 2016 according to the email, just FRACK NO. I don't care how overpowered it is, nothing is worth retraeding this:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Primary-Gallery/i-vrTbw8p/0/6285ced1/L/MonkFlurryTooComplex-L.png

[nonsi]

Is there a reference to Eternal Mount discipline?

[Aotrs Commander]

Is there a reference to Eternal Mount discipline?

Probably not at the moment, since I think it was originally WotC forums; but Eternal Mount, Falling Star, Unquiet Twilight and Spirit Fox are all obviously not ToB. As I get to the point I've started actually parsing through the maneouvres (y'know, after I've applied unofficial errata and formatted everything...), it's all coming up here. I mean, I have, like, a PDF version compiled at the time which if you are really deseperate I could google drive or something, but...

[nonsi]

Here are the range disciplines that I once suggested as essential for the ToB classes:
Falling Star (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?10707-Maneuvers-Falling-Star-Discipline)
Iron Rain (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?145803-Iron-Rain-ToB-saturation-archery)

I also found this:
Fox's Guile (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?223452-My-Arm-is-My-Brother-s-My-Sword-is-My-Sister-s-ToB-Discipline-3-5-PEACH)

[Aotrs Commander]

Noted; though interestingly enough, that Falling Star is completely different to the one from the WotC forums (which was Tempest Stormwind).

I am finding I have so much overload at the moment that I'm starting to feel snowed under. So I have slated to basically mostly take the coming week off (we have had family over from Austrailia this weekend, so I'll need a day or two to recover anyway) and I am going to try and blitz through this, because I want it done and out of my way.

[Aotrs Commander]

I have completed opass obne through the ToB unofficuial errata. Tomorrow (around Family Is Over From Austrailia Stuff), I am hoping to get the stuff formatted and ready to actually have a proper look over.

I have decided to go with the "you can just train out maneouvers/stances for ones of the same level whenever you like if you have a teacher."

Still not sure what to do about the tradition exhanges.




But, in the meantime somethign to chew over. As I was looking over Aura of Triumph, I decided the wording really wasn't very clear. It says


AURA OF TRIUMPH
Devoted Spirit (Stance) [Good]
Level: Crusader 6
Prerequisite: Two Devoted Spirit
maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Targets: You and one ally within 10 ft.
Duration: Stance
You channel the power of good through your body and soul, infusing the area around you with a soft, golden radiance. With each blow you strike against evil, you feel invigorated and driven onward.

While you are in this stance, you and any ally within 10 feet of you both heal 4 points of damage with each successful melee attack either of you makes against an evil target.

Wording is not great. Does it mean you select one ally when you enter the stance? every round? It doesn't say anything like that, and my reading of the text suggests that it is INTENDED that everytime you or a mate within 10 foot or you lamps an evil creature, you and that mate heal. Meaning if you have, like six mates stood within 10 foot of you wellying some evil creature, you get a lot of healing.

But if anyone wants to offer me a different interpretation, please do.

As also 4 hit points (like martial spirit's... And all the Cure spells...) is a laughable amount of hits, I'm increasing it to be more in line. Thus, My current proposed revision for this specific maneouvre is



Aura of Triumph
Devoted Spirit (Stance) [Good]
Level: 6th
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: 10-ft.
Duration: Stance
You channel the power of good through your body and soul, infusing the area around you with a soft, golden radiance. With each blow you strike against evil, you feel invigorated and driven onward.

While you are in this stance, each time your or any ally within 10 feet of you makes a succesful melee attack against an evil target, you and that ally both heal both heal 3 plus ½ your initiator level points of damage.

(For comparison, CLW is revised to be 5 + D8/level (max 3D8) and scales up from there. For the sake of compatibility, I will try and use a slightly less buffed healing stat (I'm going to improve it all slightly whatever) when I post up stuff proper here, with the 3.A values noted beneath, but I figured I ought to at least share my internal healing balance point. My determination is that a healing spell MUST heal at least as more damage that an offensve spell can deal out and probably slightly more, and certainly more than a sinlge weapon hit. Yes, this DOES likewise make Inflict spells something to be afraid of, but...!)

That said, this might be slightly too much even fore here (the healing is the same as the revised version of Martial Spirit, but for the Crusader, you could potentially get a crazy amount of healing if you're stood next to a couple of fighters, and it is obvious an effect that SIGNIFICANTLY gets stronger in larger parties. (The crusader in my current party is one from eight characters, three of which are also frontline fighters, so he could very easily be getting healing from eight-nine attacks per round - none of them dual-wield - by the time he would qualify for this feat, for, what, 8 points of damage each, so 72-80 damage per round... Which might be a bit much. (I mean, if he were placed into the last party at level eighteen, he could have been getting a craxy amount of hits back per round!) Four, however, is sod-all or a bit less and essentially largely nothing for the allies to heal. So one option might be to say allies heal 3 + 1/2 IL, crusader heals fixed, or 3+ 1/2 IL plus fixed amount for each hit after the first or something, but it's getting progressively more complex at that point. I'm open to arguements!



It is is NOT supposed to work with every mate you have withi ten foot, it ought to read something like this instead:

Range: Personal
Targets: You and one ally within 10 ft.

While you are in this stance, you select one ally. When that ally is within 10 feet of you both heal, 4 points of damage with each successful melee attack either of you makes against an evil target.


Thoughts?

[Kish]

Wording is not great. Does it mean you select one ally when you enter the stance? every round? It doesn't say anything like that, and my reading of the text suggests that it is INTENDED that everytime you or a mate within 10 foot or you lamps an evil creature, you and that mate heal. Meaning if you have, like six mates stood within 10 foot of you wellying some evil creature, you get a lot of healing.

Indeed, I don't think it's ambiguously worded at all: that's what it says.


As also 4 hit points (like martial spirit's... And all the Cure spells...) is a laughable amount of hits, I'm increasing it to be more in line.

See, your objections amount to, "It's too strong and too weak." It's a low base amount of healing because it does scale sharply with how many companions you have within 10 feet of you.

[Aotrs Commander]

Indeed, I don't think it's ambiguously worded at all: that's what it says.

The bit that doesn't help is "range: personal" and "Targets: You and one ally within 10ft."

Because, well, if it works how I'm reading the text... It's not a Target spell, it's an area. But if you take the target line as read, you can read the text as meaning it only affects one ally, not every ally. That sort of ambiguity is something I'm trying to eliminate.

But you have convinced me that it was supposed to be every ally in 10-foot, so, I'll keep the revisied wording.



See, your objections amount to, "It's too strong and too weak." It's a low base amount of healing because it does scale sharply with how many companions you have within 10 feet of you.

4 hits is far too small. That's ONLY ever significant in a high level party. Again, digging out the Throllgar test, he (and the crusader) would be getting (most likely) 44 hits per round, which is quite substantial...

But when this crusader's party started (we lost and replaced three players since), the front line was Just The Crusader (and maybe the rogue), so it would have been next to nothing.

But, you know what, in the cold light of day, it's a valid point. The scaling is simply too difficult to control; you CAN'T balance it by melee attack, because it's either so small as to be pointless, or you have a massive party that makes it super powerful and somewhere in the middle is a poiint at which it's kind of okay, but the window for that is simply way too small. I didn't see an analogue for Martial Spirit in this in Path of War, though I think I did see something like it, but limited the healing to once per round.

I think - and this is why these sort of conversations are necessary - that there does need to be some sort of limitation. Martial Spirit (and 3+ 1/2 IL) is probably fine, since a crusader by themselves isn't going to generate THAT many attacks (unlike a TWF Barbarian/Fighter...!), so that's probably fine... But. Hm. Maybe on the safe side, both of these should be limited to say "you cannot benefit from this stance more times than you have attacks based attack bonus" (or rather, "you can benefit from this stance once per round, plus once per round for every 6 point of Base Attack Bonus.") That way the healing can remain decent at low party sizes, and under control in large party sizes; and at 20th level, 52 hits per round is very solid*, but it's not bonkers.


*When everything has maximum hit points and needs it; for more standard PF1, you can probably afford to drop it bit, to like, 3 plus one point for every 4 IL (i.e. a bit more than half).

[Aotrs Commander]

Still workingn through, got as far as diamond Mind.

Some thoughts:

Wow, there is a LOT of purple prose in the ToB maneouvrss, far more than in the spells or anything else. I'm 75% inclined to delete the second paragraph of gumph (the non-italised stuff), it's more than a bit pointless...



Insightful Strike (and Greater Insightful Strike).

But how good are they really? I distantly remember the last time I had players use them, that I allowed something to be added to the Concentration check but damned if I can remember what (and I can't ask one the players, he's dead.) The text is pretty clear you aren't supposed to get ANYTHING, no buffs, no weapon bonuses, no Sneak Attack or weapon training or owt.

So how much are you actually doing really? Assume Concentration (or replacement skill) is a class skill, and one rank per level... that's 13.5 damage, plus character level, plus Con.

Normal weapon damage is going to be 2.5 to 7 damage, plus Str/Dex... But in my experience, most characters don't have Con that much higher than Str (especially by the time you've starting sinking money into +stat items0, so there's a very good chance Con is downgrade. But for fairness, let's take the 9th fighter my my current part, and he's got Str/Con 18. Lt's prented he's going to take a level of Warbalde or summat as his tenth level.

He's dealing D8+15 damage plus D6 energy on a hit with his longspear, which is 23 damage. With standard buffs (dragin shaman aura plus Good Hope), that goes up to 27.

If he had Insightful Strike, it would be dealing 10.5+3+10+4 = 27.5

Half a point more. For a single attack. Hrm.

Okay, the party's Rogue/Paladin. He's dealing... D6+6 +5D6? (Assuming SA and Aotrs-version D6 smite, which he can do 4/enc)... 27? (31 with buffs)

...

Crusader? He's on D10+6 (Str/Con +5)... Actually quite poor by comparison...! Okay so that's only 11.5 compared to 27.5, that's a big step-up, at least?



"But Aotrs, you could easily buff Concentration!" I mean, sure, you could take Skill Focus (for another +3/+6)... Or buy a skill bonus item (something that literally no player has ever done since 3.0 came out in my experience, but) and blow 40 grand... For another +20 damage once per encounter (maybe a couple of times if it's a long encounter). In concert (and breaking even the tenuous WBL I use), Mr Fighter above would then be... Doing 3 points (+20+6) over his Full Attack action. (Assuming he DOESN'T Power Attack or anything...)

I mean, for the Crusader, it's a big damage boost for sure, but it's not exactly BROKEN good, since you're giving up all your buffs and bonuses and such.

I'd be tempted to say let it have some of the bonuses, but then you have to be very specific about what bonuses apply and it could get confusing. (Hell, it's fairly unambiguously worded as it is, and yet I still apparently made some exceptions before so...)

What do we think, playground, is Insightful Strike alright where it is or could it use a small boost or something?



Edit: Up to Setting Sun.

Another query.




Lightning Throw
Iron Heart (Strike)
Level: 8th
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: 30-ft. line
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
You throw your weapon through the air, sending it flying end over end to strike with uncanny accuracy and terrible force. It leaves in its wake a trail of battered enemies.
The Iron Heart tradition’s more esoteric teachings allow a student to transform any melee weapon into a thrown projectile. By focusing your concentration and attuning your senses to your weapon’s balance, you can throw almost anything.
When you use this strike, you make a single melee attack (even though you are throwing your weapon). You compare this to the AC or each creature in the manoeuvre’s area. For each creature you hit, you deal damage equal to your normal melee damage (including damage from your Strength modifier, feats, magical abilities on your weapon, and so forth), plus an extra 12D6 points of damage.
If you roll a critical hit, it only applies to the first creature.
Each creature in the attack’s area can make a Reflex save with a DC equal to the result of your attack roll. A successful save halves the damage dealt.
Your weapon automatically returns to your hand at the end of the round.

Clarifications in green, since it was Implied but Not Stated, given it wanted you to make a single melee attack, but didn't say anything else.

An attack roll, plus a reflex saving throw... Seems a bit redundant, though. One feels it should be either an attack roll or a Reflex save (DC 18 + your initiation modifier).

Thoughts?

[Aotrs Commander]

So, I had the genius idea for Insightful Strike of Actually Looking At The Last Warblade Player's character Sheet. therein, I found that Insightful Strike was written down on his weapons (by me...) with +5 +D6 Fire next to it, which told me, yes, I HAVE been allowing some modifiers. From contest of charatcer sheet, I was allowing his weapon feats (Weapon Spec (+2), Melee weapon Mastery (+2) and probably a mis-applied Blade Meditation (+1?) and D6 Fire from his weapon crystal. It looks as though I had basically been disregardng the final sentence of Insightful Strike and basically just subbing Concentration in for weapon damage dice, weapon enhancement bonus and Str modifier.

I had a think about it, and went "okay, so really, would changing it to be "normal melee damage plus Concentration check" damage really be too bad? A concentration check is going to be basically 10.5 (D20) plus 3 (trained skill bonus) plus 1 per character level, plus Con modifier (so about 1 to 6). Call it worst and say 6 (a bit under 2D6). That's basically as near as dammit to 6D6 (10.5+3 +2D6), plus 1/HD. Compared to other 3rd level strikes, which are +3-4D6 plus an effect (which Insightful Strike doesn't get AND you have to invest in a skill which you otherwise wouldn't (Concentration in 3.Aotrs, recommended Autohypnosis otherwise), so it can be afford a bit of leeway.)

Bit too much? Okay, let's say it removes weapon damage dice, weapon enhancement bonus and Str mod, but keeps all other modifiers. That's now basically +4D6 (13.5) + 1/HD. For something that ONLY deals damage, it's got to compete with a Full Attack.

(For comparison, this warblade 11 was D8+13+D6 (Str 24 (+7), Weapon Spc (+2), Melee Wpn Mastery (+2), +2 sword) for a average of 21 damage. With a concentration that said it was +23. (Not qutie right, I fear, 11 ranks +3 trained +4 Con +2 trait, but there's another misc +3 (in my writing) with no obvious source (missed skill focus? This particualr character did get through three players though) and very incorrectly, a -1 ACP (also in my writing). So, for the sake of arugement, let's remove the last one and assume he does have Skill Focus (Concentration). So Concentration of +24.

So Insightful Strike by the book should be dealing average 34.5 damage. But his base melee attack does 21 on average, and he gets three of those; AND they all benefit from damage buffs.

The way we had apparently been playing it would have had it as 64 (21+43 damage), as much as all three melee strikes. Given that there is SOME level of diminishing returns, that would be a bit much.

So, let's look at what I'm suggesting... Just straight +Concentration check to damage would be adding +34.5 damage. In place of Str/Wpn damage/ wpn enchancement would be a total of 34.5+4+D6 => 42, equal to two melee hits. And subject to any party buffs (bearing in mind this was The Throllgar's party - the warblade's players moved or died) which would at the time have been around another I'd say +5+2-3D6 (per hit, too) which by-the-book Insightful Strike would have given up.

...

Yeah, it's a bit more faff, but I think I'm going to have to give it to my pre-lockdown ruling and change it to the last one. (Again, the "but a +20 skill check items!" comes at teh cost of, like, losing a chunk of weapon enhancement bonus that applies to every attack, not just one.)



Another one to chew over.

Ghost Blade
Shadow Hand (Strike, Su)
Level: 6th
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
A smile brightens your foe’s eyes; they have
dodged your blow. But that was merely the ghost blade. The real blade is cutting swiftly from underneath, and yet they still smile…
As you strike at your opponent, you create an illusory double of your weapon. This double slashes at your opponent, tricking them into mistaking it for your attack. In truth, the illusion cloaks your real attack.
As part of this manoeuvre, you make a melee attack. Your opponent is caught Flat-Footed against this strike, as the hidden attack from a new direction ruins their defenses.


That's a 6th level Su strike which... Lets you attack the opponent's flat-footed AC. Bear in mind that, aside from Assassin's Stance, no ToB class has access to SA. So it is at best a fairly marginal attack boost. Notably, Sapphite Nightmare Blade (1st level strike) is argueably better, since your attack deals more damage in exhange for having to make a skill check. Or Strike of the Broken Shield, which does more damage and has a Reflex save, but makes the target Flat-Footed for more than one attack. Automatic flat-footed for a single normal damage attack seems very weak-sauce for a 6th level strike, is what I'm saying. (Compared to, say the very next one in the list, Hand of Death, which is 4th-level save-or-be-Paralysed...) Am I missing something here?



And phew, I made it past te ToB traditions and on into Unquiet Twight, so tomorrow it is only Spirit Fox and Eternal Mount to format.



As I've being doing this, I have decided on my final approach. What I'm going to do here is as I intended, go through each level of techniques one by one, and balance between them. I decided I'm maybe not going to raid Path of War wholesale (though I will obvious adjust to Maneouvres to the Path of War ones which are basically the same with the serial numbers filed off) in case I do ever want to add more traditions. I am also feeling disinclined to add more new maneouvres, since this is taking long enough and I think, actually, having gone through literally all of them, it doesn't matter so much - especially with the old prerequisites being eased off.

I will present the maneouvres largely as I have written, and where PF1 conflicts with 3.Aotrs, I will endeavour to remember to cirrect the wording and put the 3.Aotrs differences in the notes below. Once I'm done, I will compile a google document with allof the technqiues in alphebetical order (like my own document) to hopefully PF1 standard for general use. HOWEVER, I'm not going to do that unless at least someone is interested in it (since if I'm mainly talking to myself, not a lot of point, since my own master document will have what I need.)

I have gone back and forth on exactly how many maneouvres known/readied to give the classes. For the time being, I have elected to go for, as with the Crusader, the standardised PoW stance progression. I will be giving the Warblade (and mny Sekkou) the same 3 to 10 readied progression as three of the PoW classes; Swordsage to be determined. For maneouvres known, I will be sticking with my "just add an new manouvre at 4th and every 3 thereafter" onto the old progression (so every class gets 9 extra maneouvres). If this becomes cumbersome in actual play, I will go back to the "swap out lower for higher" progression BUT it will then mandatorily require all classes have a maneouvre-level-based table ala spells to summarise the maximum levels of maneouvres you could have at a given level.

I looked at it hard yesterday, and basically, there really isn't that much difference in the top level maneouvres in the cuirrent ToB/PoW system. you still basically get 2 manouvres of each level (except for 9th, which you can get up to 4). I looked a whether the removal of the pre-reqs would enable you to get more 9ths that you "should..." But under even PoW standards, to get four 9th levels each with four prereqs was basically still very possible by the time you'd counted stances and well as maneouvres known, so I'm not going to lose any sleep about it.



I plan, then, tomorrow, to finish off the initial pass through the aforementioned traditions (where they are then in a fit state to be properly editied). I will probably try and do the classes next as well (and post them). I am still very much dubious about Falling Star. My mate who had used it down the club actually said that I should replace it when I mentioned I was considering it, which has fairly heavily swung my opinion. Though it means replacing the Falling Star feats (or re-naming them!) to fall into line. As such, I will be basically having a pass on that as I go through the meanouvres properly and working out even if I want it in.

(As a side note - I am definitely NOT making up three style feats for each tradition like Path of War has. That's just too much stuff!)

I MIGHT consider porting another tradition or so from Path of War in while I'm doing this (though that would have little bearing on this thread). I am leery because a) more work, and b) there are physical constriaints as to how many cards I can fit in the index card files. Which i literally cannot fit any more of into my 90-litre backpack, so that's a hard cap. Hopwever, my players are volenteering to laminate the cards - they have party buff cards which are just laminated paper - which might recude the volume enough to make it physically possible.




While I think, some general notes for when I'm presenting the manouvres themselves.

1) Aotrs Cross-Indexing rule: We are not making a bound hard-copy, so we are not at home to Mister "as the spell." You are only allowed "as the spell" or "as [spell/power/maneouvre], except" ONLY if said reference is directly next to the call in the list (i.e. [x], [x] greater.). Nobody likes having looked up a spell, to have to look up another spell (in a different book) to find the rules. This goes double for actually physical cards; therefore anything that said "as the spell" etc. has been deleted and replaced with the full text.

2) Pronoun Trouble: As the duck said. We are no longer at home to alternating genders (I am slowly going through an eliminating them from my classes1), it's "you" or "they/them." Yes, it's a minor point, but at least one of my players commented on it once and I am hell-bent on making this as nonhumanfactional as possible. If you see an errant "he/she/him/her" in the texts, please let me know so I can corrent it.

(There is one deliberate exception in a line about "he who seizes the initiative also seizes victory" in Battle Leader's Charge. I have left that, since while I would cheerfully replace it with "them as seizes the initiative also seizes victory" it's a bit too broad Derbyshire for general consumption, I fear.

3) It's All Spelled Wrong! No, it's in UK English, its all spelled right for the first time...



1Which of course runs the risk of me missing the odd tense change such that you have to read in the voice of Popeye. (Actual Typo I Foiund While Searching For an Example: "At first level you starts with knowledge of three manoeuvres from the traditions of Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Spirit Fox, Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw."

[Aotrs Commander]

Edit Log: Changes since last edit in green.

24/06/2023: Updaed marshal recovery methods.

Crusader: Updated in its post.

MARSHAL
Key Abilities: Charisma (Maneouvre save DC, special abilities)
Hit Die: D8
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, Geography, History, Local, Martial, Nobility and Royalty, Religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). In addition, marshals receive an additional class skill depending upon their command style.
Skill Points per level: 4+Int mod
Starting Gold: 240





Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Minor Auras
Major Aura
Manoeuvres Known
Manoeuvres Readied
Stances
Special


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
1
0
3
2
1
Command Style, Imperative Auras, Expert Commander, Teamwork Feat


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3
1
1
4
3
2
Command Presence +1


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
2
1
5
3
2
Solo Tactics, Teamwork Feat


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
2
1
6
3
2
Bonus Feat


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
3
2
7
4
3
Teamwork Feat, Improved Expert Commander


6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+5
3
2
8
4
3
Command Presence +2


7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+5
4
2
9
4
3
Teamwork Feat


8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+2
4
2
10
5
3
Bonus Feat


9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+6
5
3
11
5
4
Teamwork Feat, Greater Expert Commander


10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+7
5
3
12
5
4
Command Presence +3, Battlefield Adaptation


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7
6
3
13
6
4
Teamwork Feat


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8
6
3
14
6
5
Bonus Feat


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8
7
3
15
6
5
Teamwork Feat, Battlefield Expert Commander


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9
7
4
16
7
5
Command Presence +4


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+9
7
4
178
7
6
Teamwork Feat


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+5
8
4
18
7
6
Bonus Feat


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
9
4
18
8
6
Teamwork Feat, Master Expert Commander


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
9
4
20
8
7
Command Presence +5


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+6
10
4
21
8
7
Teamwork Feat


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+6
10
5
22
9
7
Bonus Feat, Shining Beacon of Authority



Class Features

Weapon and armour proficiency: Simple and martial weapons; light, medium, and heavy armour; shields (but not tower shields).

Imperative Auras (Ex): You exert an effect on yourself and your allies in your vicinity. You learn to produce different effects, or auras, over the course of your career. You may project one minor aura and (starting at 2nd level) one major aura at a time.

Projecting an Imperative Aura is a Swift action. The aura remains in effect until you use a Free action to dismiss it or you activate another aura of the same kind (major or minor). You can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before you take your first turn (but see below on major auras).

Activating an Imperative Aura involves haranguing, ordering, directing, encouraging, cajoling, or calming allies. You size up the enemy, allies, and the terrain, then give allies the direction that they can use to do their best.
Unless otherwise noted, your Imperative Auras affect all allies within 60 feet (including yourself). You do not need line of effect, but an ally must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher and be able to hear and understand your language to gain the bonus. Your auras are dismissed if you are Dazed, Unconscious, Stunned, Paralyzed, silenced or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by your allies.

You begin play knowing one minor aura of your choice. At each level indicated in the table above, you learn either a minor or a major aura, as appropriate. Your minor auras are fixed, but you may exchange one major aura you know for another major aura at level 6 and every 4 levels after that (10th, 14th, and so on).

All bonuses granted by your auras are morale bonuses that do not stack with each other. (You may change this to a competence bonus via the Tactical Commander feat.) Your Imperative Auras overlap and do not stack with the Imperative Auras from other sources (such as other Marshals).

An Imperative Aura stacks with your commander aura if you have one.

Auras are listed in the spoiler box below.

Minor Aura: A minor aura grants you and your allies a morale bonus equal to your Charisma bonus to certain rolls.

Major Aura: Beginning at 2nd level, you can project a major aura in addition to your minor aura. A major aura grants you and your allies a morale bonus equal to your Command Presence (see below) to certain rolls. The bonus from a major aura only applies during an encounter; although it may be active before the encounter begins, your team is not in the proper state of mind to benefit from it until the encounter starts. Benefits from an active major aura apply to each individual on their first turn with no particular action on your part.

Additionally, an ally (but not you) under your major aura adds your Command Presence bonus to all morale checks. If your aura(s) would otherwise boost these allies’ Will saves for that morale check, all pertinent effects stack (an exception to standard stacking rules).

You may select a Draconic Aura in place of a major aura. This Draconic aura is treated both as a major aura for your own class abilities, and a Draconic Aura for the purposes of interaction with other auras (i.e., it overlaps and does not stack with other Draconic Aura of the same effect). You may select any draconic aura except for Power and Vigour.

Command Style: At 1st level, you choose a Command Style. Once chosen, it cannot be changed. Your command style grands you access to an additional marshal Tradition (in addition to White Raven). You also gain an additional class skill and adds bonus feats to the list from which he can select from his bonus feat class feature.

You may select from the following Command Styles

Artillery Captain: You deal expertly with distance, prediction, position, and timing.
Tradition: Falling Star
Style Skill: Acrobatics
Style Feats: Deadly Aim, Falling Star Shot and Skill Focus (Perception)

Cavalry Leader: You have learned how to fight not only together with your allies, but with their mounts and your own as well. You can charge with your cavalry across the battlefield as well as you can fight together with your own mount.
Tradition: Eternal Mount
Style Skill: Ride
Style Feats: Eternal Charger, Martial Rider, Mounted Combat

Crusade Commander: You are fiercely dedicated both to a cause and to your troops, although how you views your troops depends on that cause. You draw upon your zeal to inspire youself and and their troops to supernatural levels.
Tradition: Devoted Sprit
Style Skill: Crusade Commanders do not gain an additional class skill.
Style Feats: Devoted Bulwark, Intimidating Prowess, Persuasive

Crypt Commander: You are a specialist in commanding (or opposing) Undead troops.
Tradition: Unquiet Twilight
Style Skill: Knowledge (Arcana)
Style Feats: Silence the Unquiet, Tactical Commander, Twilight Power
(Note most of those in command of Undead armies will typically want to take Tactical Commander to change their Imperartive Aura bonus to one which will affect Undead.)

Siegemaster: Your command style reflects defence with sheer brute force. You are always keenly aware of defences, either holding or breaching them and are adept at looking for weak points.
Tradition: Stone Dragon
Style Skill: Perception/Search
Style Feats: Power Attack, Skill Focus (Search), Stone Power

Strategic Champion: You focus on tactics on many more levels than a typical Marshal.
Tradition: Diamond Mind
Style Skill: Concentration
Style Feats: Insightful Reflexes, Skill Focus (Concentration), Unnerving Calm

Warrior-Chief: You lead by example, fighting right alongside your troops as a significant threat on the battlefield.
Tradition: Iron Heart
Style Skill: Acrobatics
Style Feats: Ironheart Aura, Skill Focus (Acrobatics), Weapon Focus

Manoeuvres: You begin your career with knowledge of three martial manoeuvres, drawn from the White Raven tradition and the tradition you gain from your command style. Once you know a manoeuvre, you must ready it before you can use it.

A manoeuvre usable by marshals is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Your manoeuvres are not affected by spell resistance, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate one.
You learn additional manoeuvres at higher levels, as shown on the table. You must meet a manoeuvre’s prerequisite to learn it. See the table below to determine the highest-level manoeuvres you can learn.

Highest Level Techniques Known




Initiator Level
Techiques Known
Prerequisite Techniques


1st-2nd
1st
—


3rd-4th
2nd
—


5th-6th
3rd
1


7th-8th
4th
1


9th-10th
5th
2


11th-12th
6th
2


13th-14th
7th
3


15th-16th
8th
3


17th+
9th
4



You can retrain your known manoeuvres and stances; this retraining takes 2 days per level of the new manoeuvre and requires a trainer who can initiate the desired manoeuvre or enter the desired stance. The new manoeuvre or stance must be part of your available traditions for the class, and must be of an equal level to the manoeuvre or stance it replaces.

A marshal’s initiation modifier is Charisma.

You qualify for feats and prestige classes as if your Marshal levels were Warblade levels (for instance, if a feat requires “warblade level 1st”, a first-level Marshal meets that requirement).
Manoeuvres Readied: You can ready both of the manoeuvres you know at 1st level, but as you advances in level and learns more manoeuvres, you must choose which manoeuvres to ready. You ready manoeuvres by discussing tactics with at least one of your allies for 5 minutes (an “ally” for purposes related to readying and recovering manoeuvres is an intelligent creature who would fight alongside you in combat, and the ally must have a means of communication with you). Manoeuvres chosen to be readied remain readied until you decide to discuss a change in plans with your allies again. Rest is not required to ready manoeuvres; any time you could plan new battle tactics, you could change your readied manoeuvres.

You begin an encounter with all your readied manoeuvres unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiates a manoeuvre, you expends it for the current encounter, so each of your readied manoeuvres can be used once per encounter (until you recover them, as described below).

You recover manoeuvres by directing your allies, getting them back into position and signalling that they’re ready to work alongside you again. You must make a successful Diplomacy or Intimidate check (DC 20) to do so. This check takes a Full-Round action. Alternatively, you may elect to speed up this process, taking only a Standard action to do so, although the DC increases to 30.

At least one ally must be able to hear you and signal in response for you to recover your expended manoeuvres. These Diplomacy or Intimidate checks do not have any other effect on your allies (such as heartening them or pressing them to work harder); their only effect when used this way is to attempt to recover your manoeuvres. If you have no allies, your skill check is assumed to automatically fail (i.e. you do not need to roll it), but you still partially recover maneouvres as noted for a failure.

If this check is successful, all of your expended manoeuvres become readied, and you may also freely change your your stance or your projected imperative auras without having to use Swift actions. If the check fails, you recover a number of maneouvres equal to your initiator bonus (minimum 2) and you cannot change stances or auras as part of this action.

Alternately, you may take a brief pause in battle and recover a single maneouvre of yourchoosing by spending a Standard action on your turn.

Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one stance from any tradition open to marshals, the maximum level of which is determined from the Highest Level Techniques Known above. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 11th, 15th, and 18th level choose additional stances. Unlike manoeuvres, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you are currently using as a Swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with manoeuvres, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.

Expert Commander (Ex): At 1st level, as a Standard action, you can grant any one teamwork feat you possesses to all allies within 30 feet who can see and hear you. Allies retain the use of this teamwork feat for 3 rounds plus 1 round for every two levels knight levels you possess. Allies do not need to meet the prerequisites of these teamwork feats. You can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day at 4th level and for every 4 levels thereafter.

Teamwork Feat: At 1st level, and every two levels thereafter, you gain a bonus Teamwork feat. Your must meet the prerequisites of the selected bonus feat.

As a Standard action, you can choose to learn a new bonus teamwork feat in place of the most recent bonus teamwork feat you have already learned. In effect, you lose the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. You can only change the most recent teamwork feat gained. Whenever you gain a new teamwork feat, the previous teamwork feat becomes set and cannot be changed again. You can change her most recent teamwork feat a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier.

Command Presence: You personify leadership, and exude an air of confidence that others find heartening. From 2nd level on, you project this presence most commonly through a Major Aura, although you also gains a bonus based on your command presence rating to other command-related mechanics. You gains a bonus equal to twice your Command Presence bonus on Diplomacy checks, opposed Charisma checks (typically to assert authority), saving throws against fear, rally checks and skill checks made as part of a duel of wills. Furthermore, you add your command presence to your Leadership score, and one-half your command presence to your commander rating.

Solo Tactics (Ex): At 3rd level, all of your allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as you for the purpose of determining whether you receives a bonus from your teamwork feats. Your allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for you to receive the listed bonus.

Bonus feat: At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, you gain a bonus feat. You must meet all the prerequisites for this feat. The feat maybe be any Teamwork feat, or drawn from the following list or the feats mentioned in your command style:

Adaptive Style, Alertness, Clarion Commander, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Leadership, Mounted Combat, Negotiator, Persuasive, Point Blank Shot, Scribe Martial Script, Skill Focus (Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Sense Motive), Quick Draw, Tactical Commander, Tower Shield Proficiency, Warlord, White Raven Defence, White Raven General.

If Leadership feat is permitted, if you have a Leadership score (character level + Charisma modifier + command presence + other modifiers based on reputation) of at least 8, you can take Leadership as one of these bonus feats, even if you are not yet 6th level. However, if your Leadership score drops below 8 before you attain 6th level, you loses feat (your soldiers grow disheartened and desert) until you meet either prerequisite again. You may subsequently take Leader feats you qualify for as bonus feats.

Improved Expert Commander (Ex): At 5th level, using your Expert Commander ability becomes a Move action.

Greater Expert Commander (Ex): At 9th level, using your Expert Commander ability becomes a Swift action.

Battlefield Adaptation (Ex): At 10th level, you have seen enough battles to be able to simultaneously see how to adjust your personal combat style and direct you troops simultaneously as the tide of battle shifts. As a Swift action, you may activate or change any combination of your stance, minor aura and major aura as you sees fit.

For instance, Sir Alerias, a 10th level Marshal, is directing his troops aggressively, using the Over the Top minor aura, the Motivate Attack major aura, and the Leading the Charge stance. After leading a successful charge, he adjusts his tactics and the orders he gives his team, spending a Swift action to change his minor aura to Master of Tactics and his stance to Tactics of the Wolf (while he could change his major aura as part of this action, he elects to keep using Motivate Attack).

Battlefield Expert Commander (Ex): At 13th level, the range of your Expert Commander ability increases by 30 feet to 60 feet.

Master Expert Commander (Ex): At 17th level, whenever you use your Expert Commander ability, you grant any two teamwork feats that you know.

Shining Beacon of Authority (Ex): (Capstone) At 20th level you become a thing of beauty and terror on the battlefield. Your merest presence is enough to turn the tides of nearly any war as your troops are inspired to superhuman levels, and enemy forces cower in terror, fearfully whispering your name amongst themselves.

Shining Beacon of Authority is a special martial stance, and follows all the rules relating to stances, except that it can only be entered while in an encounter. While in Shining Beason of Authority Stance, you may not change your auras, but the radius of your auras and the range of your Tactical Commander ability doubles. If you initiate Shining Beacon of Authority Stance from a stanceless state, as part of the activation, you may also select a minor and a major aura to project.

You may choose to focus on either allies or enemies.

If you focus on allies, you may choose to either double all morale bonuses that you and your allies are benefitting from, regardless of source. If you have the Tactical Commander feat, you may choose instead to double all competance bonuses (but not both). You are treated as being in a White Raven Stance for while in this mode.

If you focus on enemies, you apply the effects of your auras to the enemies as a penalty equal to your granted bonus. E.g., if you used Motivate Attack and Watchful Eye auras, the enemy would take a −5 penalty to attack rolls (equal to your Command Presence bonus) and CMB and a penalty on Reflex saves equal to your Charisma bonus.) Note that as this is a penalty, type is irrelevant. An enemy must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher and be able to hear the Marshal to be affected (though comprehension is not required). You are treated as being in a stance of your Command Style discipline while in this mode.

You can use this stance for a number of rounds per day equal to your Constitution modifer (or your Charisma modifier if you lack a Constitution score). It otherwise ends if you unable to maintain your Imperartive Aura, or at the end of the encounter. (It is impossible to motivate or demotivate troops to this degree outside of the pressures of combat.)

Alternative Class Features
Adrenaline Boost
Level: 4th
Replaces: Bonus Feat
Benefit: You can exhort your allies to discover a reservoir of energy they didn’t think they had. Once per day for every four marshal levels, as a Standard action, you can grant temporary hit points equal to your marshal level to any or all of your allies within 30 feet (but not to yourself). If the ally’s current hit point total is no more than half his maximum hit points, the number of temporary hit points granted to that character is doubled (to twice your marshal level). The temporary hit points last for up to 1 minute per marshal level.
This ability only affects allies with an Intelligence score of3 or greater who can hear you and understand your language.
If you use this ability on a creature that still under the effect of a previous use, the new temporary hit points overlap and do not stack the temporary hit points the creature had remaining.

Unorthodox Method:
Level: 1st
Replaces: One tradition
Benefit: You trade one of your class’s available tradition for a different tradition of your choice. You gain the new tradition’s key skill as a class skill.


Minor Auras

Accurate Strike: Morale bonus on rolls made to confirm critical hits.

Art of War: Morale bonus on CMB and CMD for bull rush, disarm, sunder and trip combat manoeuvres.

Defensive Awareness: Morale bonus on flat-footed and touch Armour Class and flat-footed CMD (to a maximum of that ally’s normal Armour Class and CMD).

Demand Fortitude: Morale bonus on Fortitude saves.

Determined Mind: Morale bonus on Concentration checks and rolls to overcome spell resistance (and manifester level checks made to overcome power resistance). The bonus applies to powers, spells, psi-like or spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or any other ability that is activated or cast within your aura’s radius (and affects that effect for its duration).

Force of Will: Morale bonus on Will saves. This stacks with the Bolstering Voice stance. (This is an exception to normal stacking rules.)

Master of Opportunity: Morale bonus to Armour Class against attacks of opportunity.

Master of Tactics: Morale bonus on damage rolls when flanking and CMB and CMD for reposition combat manoeuvres.

Motivate Agility: Morale bonus on Dexterity checks, Dexterity-based skill checks, and initiative checks and on CMB and CMD for dirty trick and steal combat manoeuvres.

Motivate Endurance: Morale bonus on Constitution checks and Constitution-based skill checks. Additionally, creatures gain a number of hit points equal to the Marshal’s Charisma bonus times his command presence +1. For example, a first level Marshal (with no command presence) would grant those under the aura a number of hit points equal to his Charisma bonus. These are not temporary hit points, nor are they bonus hit points per hit die. These hit points go away if Motivate Endurance ends for any reason, which may prove hazardous or even fatal in some situations.

Motivate Power: Morale bonus on Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks and CMB and CMD for combat manoeuvres. Those under the effect of Motivate Power treat their Strength score as 1 higher per point of bonus for purposes relating to carrying capacity, including lifting and pushing/dragging objects.

Over the Top: Morale bonus on damage rolls when charging and on CMB and CMD for Overrun combat manoeuvres. This only applies to the first attack made after a charge if the ally is capable of making more than one such attack. The effect applies to the charge action, even if the end of the charge is outside the area of your aura.

Watchful Eye: Morale bonus on Reflex saves.

Major Auras

Hardy Soldiers: The Marshal’s allies gain damage reduction equal to the Marshal’s command presence. For example, if the Marshal is 10th level, you are you aliies affected gain DR 3/-.

Motivate Ardour: Morale bonus on damage rolls.

Motivate Attack: Morale bonus on melee attack rolls and CMB.

Motivate Care: Morale bonus to Armour Class and CMD.

Motivate Urgency: Allies’ base land speed is increased by a number of feet equal to 5 x the Marshal’s command presence. For example, the allies of a 10th-level Marshal (+3 command presence) add 15 feet to their base land speed. Your allies must start, but do not need to end, their movement within your aura radius to gain this bonus.

Precision Teamwork: When an ally uses the Aid Another action successfully, the recipient of that action gains an additional bonus on that roll equal to the Marshal’s command presence. Multiple Aid Another attempts stack this way as normal for Aid Another (this is an exception to normal stacking rules).

Resilient Troops: Morale bonus on all saves.

Steady Hand: Morale bonus on ranged attack rolls and CMB.

Draconic Auras

Energy: Bonus to the save DC for your totem energy. The bonus applies to powers, spells, psi-like or spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or any other ability that either has the appropriate descriptor or deals damage of the chosen type that is activated or cast within your aura’s radius (and affects that effect for its duration). If you do not have a totem dragon choose one type of energy from Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire when you gain the aura. The energy type cannot be changed.

Energy Shield: Any creature striking you or your ally with a natural attack or a nonreach melee weapon is dealt 2 points of energy damage for each point of your aura bonus. The energy type is that of your totem dragon's damage-dealing breath weapon (if you have one). If you do not have a totem dragon choose one type of energy from Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire when you gain the aura. The energy type cannot be changed.

Insight: Bonus to Knowledge, Linguistics and Spellcraft checks.

Power: Bonus to melee damage rolls equal to your aura bonus.

Presence: Bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks equal to your aura bonus.

Resistance: Resistance to your totem dragon's energy type equal to 5 × your aura bonus. If you do not have a totem dragon choose one type of energy from Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire when you gain the aura. The energy type cannot be changed.

Resolve: Bonus to Concentration checks and on saves against fear, paralysis, and sleep effects.

Senses: Bonus to Perception and Search checks, equal to your aura bonus plus 1.

Spell Power: Bonus to caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance (and manifester level checks made to overcome power resistance). The bonus applies to powers, spells, psi-like or spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or any other ability that is activated or cast within your aura’s radius (and affects that effect for its duration).

Stamina: Bonus to Constitution checks (but not Constitution-based skill checks) and Fortitude saves.

Swiftness: Bonus to Climb, Fly, Acrobatics checks made to jump/Jump, and Swim checks. It also increases your climb, fly, and swim speeds by 5 × your bonus. (The aura doesn't grant you a climb, fly or swim speed it you don't already have one. If you have land speed, you do gain a Climb speed of the noted amount and the +8 bonus to Climb checks for having a Climb speed.) Your allies must start, but do not need to end, their movement within your aura radius to gain this bonus.

Toughness: DR 1/Magic for each point of your aura bonus (up to 5/Magic at 20th level).

Vigour: Fast Healing 1 for each point of your aura bonus, but only affects characters at or below one-half their full normal hit points.






Notes: The Marshal was still looking a bit lacking from it's WotC board days. I thus have standardised it's maneouvre progression (and giving it basically one less meanouvre readied than the Warbalde/PoW standard 3 to 10 progression). The Solo Tactics/Expert Tactician/ Teamwork Feat is something I have added today, since it made sense, was easy to nick and fitted perfectly. Is it maybe too much? I dunno, but like the Hexblade, if I've over-tuned it, great, at least the mark is straddled, right?



WARBLADE
Key Abilities: Intelligence (Maneouvre save DC, special abilities)
Hit Die: D12
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Autohypnosis (Wis)/Concentration (Con),, Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History), (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Martial) (Int), Profession (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skill Points per level: 4+Int mod
Starting Gold: 200






Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Manoeuvres Known
Manoeuvres Readied
Stances
Special


1st
+1
+2
+0
+0
5
3
1
Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+0
6
4
2
Uncanny Dodge


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+1
7
4
2
Battle Ardour (Critical Confirmation)


4th
+4
+4
+1
+1
8
4
2
—


5th
+5
+4
+1
+1
9
5
3
Bonus Feat


6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+2
10
5
3
Improved Uncanny Dodge


7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+2
11
5
3
Battle Cunning (Damage)


8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+2
12
6
3
—


9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+3
13
6
4
Bonus Feat


10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+3
14
6
4
—


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+3
15
7
4
Battle Skill (CMD)


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+4
16
7
5
—


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+4
17
7
5
Bonus Feat


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+4
18
8
5
—


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+5
19
8
6
Battle Mastery (Attacks of Opportunity)


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+5
20
8
6
—


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+5
21
9
6
Bonus Feat


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+6
22
9
7
—


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+6
23
9
7
—


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+6
24
10
7
Stance Mastery



Class Features
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: You are proficient with simple and martial melee weapons (including those that can be used as thrown weapons), light and medium armour, and all shields except tower shields.

Manoeuvres: You begin your career with knowledge of six martial manoeuvres. The traditions available to you are Diamond Mind, Eternal Mount, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven. Once you know a manoeuvre, you must ready it before you can use it.

A manoeuvre usable by warblades is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Your manoeuvres are not affected by spell resistance, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate one.

You learn additional manoeuvres at higher levels, as shown on the table. You must meet a manoeuvre’s prerequisite to learn it. See the table below to determine the highest-level manoeuvres you can learn.

Highest Level Techniques Known




Initiator Level
Techiques Known
Prerequisite Techniques


1st-2nd
1st
—


3rd-4th
2nd
—


5th-6th
3rd
1


7th-8th
4th
1


9th-10th
5th
2


11th-12th
6th
2


13th-14th
7th
3


15th-16th
8th
3


17th+
9th
4



You can retrain your known manoeuvres and stances; this retraining takes 2 days per level of the new manoeuvre and requires a trainer who can initiate the desired manoeuvre or enter the desired stance. The new manoeuvre or stance must be part of your available traditions for the class, and must be of an equal level to the manoeuvre or stance it replaces.

A warblades’s initiation modifier is Intelligence.

Manoeuvres Readied: You can ready three of the manoeuvres you know at 1st level, but as you advance in level and learn more manoeuvres, you must choose which manoeuvres to ready. You ready your manoeuvres by exercising for 5 minutes. The manoeuvres you choose remain readied until you decide to exercise again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready your manoeuvres; any time you spend 5 minutes in practice, you can change your readied manoeuvres. You begin an encounter with all your readied manoeuvres unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a manoeuvre, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied manoeuvres can be used once per encounter (until you recover them, as described below). You can recover all expended manoeuvres with a single Swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round by making a melee Attack or melee Full Attack action or using a Standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a manoeuvre or change your stance while you are recovering your expended manoeuvres, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.

Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one stance from any tradition open to warblades, the maximum level of which is determined from the Highest Level Techniques Known above. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 11th, 15th, and 18th level choose additional stances. Unlike manoeuvres, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you are currently using as a Swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with manoeuvres, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.

Battle Clarity (Ex): You can enter a state of almost mystical awareness of the battlefield around you. As long as you are not flat-footed, you gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus on your Reflex saves.
Weapon Aptitude (Ex): Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You treat your warblade levels as fighter levels for the purposes of feat prerequistes that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your warblade level –2 (minimum 0). This stacks with any fighter levels you have for these purposes. (Note that this does not count as having levels of fighter for those feats that have additional special effects for levels of fighter unless otherwise noted.)

You also have the flexibility to adjust your weapon training. Each morning, you can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). You must have the newly designated weapon available during your practice session to make this change. For example, if you wish to change the designated weapon for your Weapon Focus feat from greatsword to longsword, you must have a longsword available to practice with during your practice session. You can adjust any number of your feats in this way, and you don’t have to adjust them all in the same way. However, you can’t change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet the prerequisite for some other feat you possess. For instance, if you have both Weapon Focus (longsword) and Weapon Specialization (longsword), you can’t change the designated weapon for Weapon Focus unless you also change the weapon for Weapon Specialization in the same way.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, you can react to danger before your senses would normally allow you to do so. You do not lose your Dexterity bonus to AC when you are Flat-Footed and against invisible attackers (and thus also when Blinded). However, you still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC when it is denied from any other source (such as by Paralysed or Stunned). IIf you already have Uncanny Dodge from a different class, you automatically gain Improved Uncanny Dodge instead.

Battle Ardour (Ex): The sheer love of battle lends uncanny strength to your blows. Starting at 3rd level, you gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus on rolls made to confirm critical hits.

Bonus Feat: At 5th level, you gain a bonus feat from the list given below. You must meet the prerequisite for the feat you select. Every four levels thereafter (at 9th, 13th, and 17th level), you choose another bonus feat from the list.

Bonus Feat List: Acrobatic, Agile, Athletic, Blade Meditation, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Ironheart Aura, Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, Run, Stone Power, Tiger Blooded, Unnerving Calm, White Raven Defence

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level and higher, you can no longer be flanked. This defence denies a sneak-attacking character the ability to Sneak Attack you by flanking you, unless the attacker has at least four more levels of classes which grant Sneak Attack than you have of levels of classes which grant Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Battle Cunning (Ex): Your instinct for seizing the moment gives you a significant advantage over foes unprepared for your attack. At 7th level, you gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus on melee damage rolls against flat-footed or flanked opponents.

Battle Skill (Ex): You anticipate your enemies’ ploys and tactics. At 11th level, you gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus to your CMD.

Battle Mastery (Ex): You notice the most subtle openings and cues offered by your opponents. At 15th level, you gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence bonus on melee attack rolls, CMB and melee damage rolls made whenever you make an attack of opportunity.

Stance Mastery (Ex): (Capstone) At 20th level, you can have two stances active simultaneously. When you use a Swift action to initiate or change your stance, you can initiate or change one or both stances.

Alternative Class Features
Unorthodox Method:
Level: 1st
Replaces: One tradition
Benefit: You trade one of your class’s available tradition for a different tradition of your choice. You gain the new tradition’s key skill as a class skill.


Notes: Minimal changes to Warblade.



I'm going to leave it there for today, because formatting these things is a sodding nightmare (and I'm not entirely sure if I'm talking to myself again at this point). I have finished the formatting, so my next job (while there's still a bit of not-quite-work-time left in the day is to start going through the 1st level manouvres, finally.

(I really want to try and get all this sorted before Monday when the next session starts and the current Crusader levels up if I possibly can...)

[Aotrs Commander]

So, first thing out of the gate... Path of War disciplines have 6 1st level (2 stances, four misc) which is literally twice what most of the ToB schools have. Bollocks. (And it seems four of every other level bar the single 9th).

Whelp, there does the idea of not having to do much extra, dun't it? I was already planning on trying to even the schools up, but looks like I've got more work ahead that I'd like.

Okay, so I think I will go back to my Plan B, and I will wholesale yoink PoW manouvres into the ToB schools - but like spells and powers (and real martial arts), we'll be assuming that the ToB and PoW traditions share some moves.

That will be a secondary job; my first one will be to at least update the existsing ToB maneouvres.

Randomly, as I started looking, I noticed that Ghost Blade (6th level maneouvre) is replicated eaxtly by Dimensional Strike (Veiled Moon, level 1).

Yeah, I rather thought that was very crap...!




Manouvres and Stances Level 1

Global Note: Eternal Mount was created on the WotC boards by Magocrat and contributed to by Flamewarrior, JiCi, periscope, Tempest Stormwind and myself (though I'm fragged it I remember what if anything I actually contributed specifically - probl'y just sanity checking).



Blood in the Water
Tiger Claw (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
The smell of blood drives you into a fury. As you slash into your foe, each fresh wound you inflict spurs you onward.

While you are in this stance, you whip yourself into a terrible rage. You gain a +2 bonus to confirm critical hits while in this stance. This bonus increases by 1 for every 8 initiator levels. When you score a critical hit against an opponent, you enter a near frenzied state from the sight and smell of blood. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls for each critical hit you inflict.

If you go more than one minute plus one minute for every 8 initiator levels without achieving a critical hit, the stance ends and the bonus disappears.

Bolstering Voice
White Raven (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: 60-ft.-radius emanation centered on you
Duration: Stance
Your clarion voice strengthens the will of your comrades. So long as you remain on the field of battle, your allies are strengthened against attacks and effects that seek to subvert their willpower.

The discipline of the White Raven stresses that an army is effective only when its members are motivated to fight. In the face of a daunting enemy or unexpected hardship, the most skilled warrior is worthless if they lack strength of will. When you adopt the bolstering voice stance, you shout encouragement to your allies, disparage your foes, and lend much-needed support to raise your allies’ spirits. By drawing on the example you set, your allies harden their will to fight and battle on despite your enemies’ attempts to turn them aside.

While you are in this stance, you and all allies within range who can hear you gain a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, or a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against fear effects. These bonuses increase by +1 for every 8 initatior levels.

Burning Blade
Desert Wind (Boost, Su)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn

Your blade bursts into flame as it sweeps toward your foe in an elegant arc.

A subtle yet precise twisting of your blade unlocks the power of flame. When you initiate this manoeuvre, fire trails from your melee weapon. For the rest of your turn, your melee attacks deal an extra 1D6 points of Fire damage + 1 point per initiator level.

Child of Shadow
Shadow Hand (Stance, Su)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
As you move, shadows flutter and swarm around you. Even under the bright desert sun, you are difficult to spot as long as you remain in motion.

As an initiate of the Shadow Hand school, you learn to channel and control dark, shadowy energies.

This energy flows around you like a concealing robe, hiding you from your opponents as they attempt to strike you.

If you move at least 10 feet during your turn, you gain Concealment against all melee and ranged attacks until the start of your next turn. You also gain the standard benefits of Concealment, but you cannot use this stance to Hde in Plain Sight; you must still use some other terrain feature that normally allows you to use the Stealth skill. The fluttering shadows make it difficult to specifically target you, but your enemies are aware of your position.

The miss chance increases by 5% for every four initator levels.

Claw of the Grave
Unquiet Twilight (Boost, Su)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of Turn
You focus the power of death into your blade. A cold chill surrounds the weapon and the whispers of the damned become faintly audible as it sweeps through the air.

For the rest of your turn, your melee attacks deals an extra D4 points of negative energy damage +1 per initiator level.

Crushing Trample
Eternal Mount (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Full-Round action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
You charge to your foe, knocking him down to the ground with your momentum.

As part of this maneouvre, you make an Overrun combat maneouvre against your target. You gain a +2 bonus to your CMB. If you are mounted, this bonus increases to +4. If the attack check succeeds, your target takes 1D6 points of damage.

Distracting Ember
Desert Wind (Boost, Su)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: 30 ft.
Effect: One summoned fire elemental
Duration: End of turn
A wave of heat sweeps over the area, forms a small dust funnel, and ignites into flame next to your foe.

This boost allows you to conjure a Small Fire Elemental to threaten your enemy, providing you or an ally with the benefit of a flanking position. You can use this ability to place the elemental in any space within range. The elemental remains until the end of your current turn. It threatens all creatures within its reach. It takes no actions or attacks of opportunity during your turn.


Fell Charge
Eternal Mount (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Full-Round action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
You dash across the battlefield. Using your momentum, you deal an amazing blow to your foe.
As part of this maneouvre, you must make a charge with a Heavy Blade, Light Blade, Spear weapon against your target. If you successfully hit your opponent, you may make a Ride check and compare the resul to your target's AC. If the check is equal to or greater than the target’s, your weapon's damage roll is multiplied by two.

If you are mounted, your attack roll is treated as if it was 2 higher than it actually was for the purpose of determining whether the attack threatens a critical hit. This bonus does
not apply to your roll to confirm the critical hit.

You may only make one attack as part of this maneouvre. This extra damage does not stack with the Spirited Charge feat.

Hunter’s Sense
Tiger Claw (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You sniff at the air like a hunting animal.

After you focus your mind, an array of scents that normally eludes your awareness become clear to you. Your mastery of the Tiger Claw discipline allows you to become attuned to the feral side of your personality. On a fundamental level, you begin to think more like a wild beast and less like a civilized creature. Your enemies are prey to be hunted down and slain. Your allies are packmates. This shift in view spreads to your physical senses.

As long as you are in this stance, you gain the Scent special ability and you gain a +10 enhancement bonus to your base land speed.

Impact Hammer
Spirit Fox (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
You channel your will into a single stroke that knocks you foe sliding back through the dust.

As part of this maneouver, you make a single melee attack. If you hit, you deal an extra +D8 damage and, make a free Bull Rush combat maenouvre against the target without provoke an attack of opportunity. If you succeed, you push the target back 5 feet away from you.

Assuming your attack check is high enough, you can push your target back more than 5 feet (as normal for a Bull Rush, but without having to follow).

Iron Guard’s Glare
Devoted Spirit (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
With a quick snarl and a glare that would stop a charging barbarian in their tracks, you spoil an opponent’s attack. Rather than strike their original target, your enemy turns their attention toward you.

While you are in this stance, any opponent that you threaten takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls and CMB against your allies. This penalty does not apply to attacks made against you. Enemies you threaten become aware of the consequences of the stance. This penalty increases by 1 for every 8 initiator levels.

Island of Blades
Shadow Hand (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You cloak yourself in a swirling nimbus of shadow energy. These shadows spin and flow around you, preventing any creature near you from being able to anticipate your attacks.

Your turn your enemies’ strengths against them, improving your combat ability as well as that of an ally. When you and a comrade move to attack an opponent, you time your attacks and position yourself to frustrate your opponent’s defenses.

If both you and an ally are adjacent to the same creature, that creature is consider flanked. You can gain this benefit against multiple opponents at the same time, as can your allies. If both you and an ally are adjacent to the same two creatures, both creatures are considered flanked.

Leading the Attack
White Raven (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee atack and 60 feet.
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round
You boldly strike at your enemy. As you attack, you shout a war cry to demonstrate that victory is at hand. This attack inspires nearby allies to join the fray with renewed vigor.

When you make an attack, your allies take heart in your example and fight with renewed purpose. By stoking the fire of battle in your allies’ hearts, you inspire them to greater heroics.

As part of this manoeuvre, you make a single melee attack. If your attack is successful, you and all allies within 60 feet gain a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls and CMB for 1 round against the creature you hit.

Leading the Charge
White Raven (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: 60-ft.-radius emanation centered on you
Duration: Stance
You fire the confidence and martial spirit of your allies, giving them the energy and bravery needed to make a devastating charge against your enemies.

The White Raven discipline teaches that tactics, leadership, and planning can overcome an opponent’s superior individual abilities. This stance embodies that teaching, allowing you to spur your allies on to greater feats of martial skill.

While you are in this stance, you and all allies in the area who can hear you gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to your initiator level when making a charge action.

Mach Punch
Spirit Fox (Strike, Su)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action.
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
You move up and strike your foe with one motion to fast he doesn't have time to dodge.

Upon initiating the manouvre, you may move to up your speed in a straight line. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After this movement (or if you decline to move), you make a single melee attack. If your foe fails a Reflex save (DC 11 + your initiation modifier) they are Flat-Footed against the attack. Your attack deals normal damage.

Martial Spirit
Devoted Spirit (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
As you cleave through your foes, each ferocious attack you make lends vigor and strength to you and your allies.

While you are in this stance, you or an ally within 30 feet heals 3 plus ½ your initiator level points of damage each time you make a successful melee attack against a hostile creature. This healing represents the vigor, drive, and toughness you inspire in others. Your connection to the divine causes such inspiration to have a real, tangible effect on your allies’ health.

Each time you hit an opponent in melee, you can choose a different recipient within range to receive this healing.

You can grant this healing to yourself or others no more than once per round, plus once per round for every 6 points of your base attack bonus (i.e., no more times than your base number of iterative attacks).

Mighty Throw
Setting Sun (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
You use superior leverage and your Setting Sun training to send an opponent tumbling to the ground.

As part of this manoeuvre, you make a Trip combat maneoevre against the target. You can attempt this Trip attack on a target regardless of size. You may substitute your Dexterity modifier for your Strength modifier (or vise versa) on this attack check and you get a +4 bonus. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and your opponent cannot try to Trip you if you fail.

If you succeed in tripping your foe, you throw it up to 10 feet away from you. The target falls Prone in the destination space. You choose where it lands. You must place the target in an empty space. If you lack the distance to throw your target into a clear space, it falls Prone in its current space.

An enemy you throw with this manoeuvre does not provoke attacks of opportunity for passing through enemies’ threatened areas as part of the throw, and you can throw an enemy
through occupied squares.

Punishing Stance
Iron Heart (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You chop down violently with your weapon, lending extra force to your blows. These attacks come at a cost, as your enemies slash at your undefended legs and flanks.

You hold your weapon overhead, allowing you to chop down with superior force. However, this fighting stance leaves you vulnerable to an opponent’s attacks. Only an initiate of the Iron Heart tradition can manage the perilous balance between trading attack power for defense. A lesser warrior would leave himself nearly helpless to resist an opponent’s attacks.

While you are in this stance, you deal an extra 1D6 points of damage with all melee attacks. This damage bonus increases by 1D6 for eight initiator levels. You also take a –2 penalty to AC and CMD, because this fighting stance emphasizes power over a defensive posture.

Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Diamond Mind (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Your study your enemy for a brief moment, watching their defensive manoeuvres and making a strike timed to take advantage of a lull in their vigilance.

The sapphire nightmare blade is one of the most basic, but important, manoeuvres that a Diamond Mind adept studies. It illustrates that a keen mind can pierce even the toughest defenses.

You attempt a Autohynosis/ Concentration check as part of this manoeuvre, using the target creature’s AC as the DC of the check. You then make a single melee attack against your target. The attack is also part of this manoeuvre. If your Autohynosis/ Concentration check succeeds, the target is Flat-Footed against your attack, and you deal an extra 1D6 points of damage.

If your check fails, your attack is made with a –2 penalty and deals normal damage.

Shadow Blade Technique
Shadow Hand (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
You weave your weapon in an elaborate pattern, creating an illusory double that glows with white energy. As you make your attack, both your true weapon and the illusion slash at your foe.

This manoeuvre allows you to create a mystical double of your weapon. As you attack, your foe must decide which weapon to defend against. In most cases, the illusory weapon distracts your foe and allows your true attack to
hit. In some cases, both attacks strike home. In this case, the shadow blade discharges its magic and imbues your attack with cold energy.

As part of this manoeuvre, you make a single melee attack against an opponent with Advantage. Unlike on a normal roll with Advantage, you can select which of the two die results to use. If you use the higher die result, resolve your attack as normal. (Your mystic double misses, but your true attack might hit.) If you use the lower die result, or if both die results are the same, your attack deals an extra 1D6 points of Cold damage as both the mystic double’s attack and your true weapon strike home.

Shared Defence
Eternal Mount (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: 0 ft.
Target: You and mount; see text
Duration: Stance
You and your mount shift positions so as to thwart attacks made on the other as much as you can. You place your trust in your mount, just as your mount places its trust in you.
While you are in this stance, you and your mount can claim cover from one another, just as if you had made a successful Ride check. You must be mounted in order to initiate this stance. If you dismount, this stance immediately ends.

Stance of Clarity
Diamond Mind (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You focus your efforts on a single opponent, studying his moves and preparing an attack. Your other opponents fade from sight as your mind locks onto your target.

This stance allows you to focus on a single opponent to the exclusion of all others. You read your foe’s fighting stance, their favored attacks, and the methods they used to train. By combining these factors into a single analysis
of their abilities, you see how to foil their attacks.

While you are in this stance, you must choose a single opponent as your target at the start of your turn. You gain a +2 insight bonus to AC and CMD against that foe until you change the target of this stance. You take a –2 penalty to AC and CMD against all other oponents while using stance of clarity. The insight bonus increases by 1 fo every six initiator levels, but the AC penalty remains the same.

Steal Vitality
Unquiet Twilight (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 round
Your blow transfers the small amount of negative energy released by the injury and syphon it to bolster you own defences.

You make a single melee attack as part of this strike. If the attack hits, the target takes melee damage normally and takes a −2 penalty of all saves for 1 round. You gain a +2 bonus to all saves for 1 round. The penalty and bonus both increase by 1 for every 8 initiator levels.

Steel Wind
Iron Heart (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: Two creatures
You swing your weapon in a broad, deadly arc, striking two foes with a single, mighty blow.

Through a combination of sheer power and unmatched talent, you make an attack that injures multiple opponents.

As you initiate this strike, you make two melee attacks, each against a different foe that you threaten. Resolve each attack separately.

Steely Strike
Iron Heart (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round; see text
You focus yourself for a single, accurate attack, shrugging off your opponent’s blows and ignoring the need for defense as you make your assault.

The Iron Heart discipline teaches focus, allowing you to engage and defeat one opponent at a time. Your other enemies mean nothing to you as you press your attack.

You make a single melee attack as part of this strike with a +4 bonus to the attack roll and CMB and +D6 damage on a succesful hit. All opponents other than the one you attacked gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls and CMB against you for 1 round.

Step of the Wind
Setting Sun (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You walk across rubble and other broken terrain with deceptive ease, allowing you to take advantage of your opponents as they struggle to move at full speed.

You are so closely attuned to your environment that you easily pick out steady spots in rough terrain. While others struggle to move over broken ground, you slip across it with ease. When you fight on rough ground, you turn the uneven footing into an advantage. By gauging how an opponent distributes their weight, you strike at just the right moment and in the precise spot needed to send them tumbling to the ground.

While you are in this stance, you ignore penalties to speed, movement, or skill checks associated with movement (such as Acrobatics, Jump, and Climb checks) incurred by moving through difficult terrain. If you attack an opponent standing on difficult terrain while you are in this stance, and if that foe takes a movement penalty for moving through difficult terrain, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls made against that enemy. If you make a Bull Rush, Drag, Resposition or Trip combat maneouvre against this foe,this bonus increases to +4. You also gain a +4 bonus to CMD on the same combat maneouvres made against you by that foe. These bonus increase by 1 for every 8 initiatior levels.

Stone Bones
Stone Dragon (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round
You focus your energy to enhance your defenses, drawing on the power of your weapon’s impact with a foe to toughen yourself against a counterattack.

The Stone Dragon tradition teaches its disciples to shrug off attacks through a combination of mental focus, pure toughness, and resilience. When you make a successful melee attack, you attune your mind and body to such an incredible extent that only the sharpest weapons can injure you. Lesser armaments cause mere bruises and minor cuts.

When you use this manoeuvre, you make a single melee attack. If this attack hits, you gain Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine for 1 round.

Stonefoot Stance
Stone Dragon (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You crouch and set your feet flat on the ground, drawing the resilience of the earth into your body.

The students of the Stone Dragon discipline model their defenses after the earth itself. The wind might batter the mountain, the river might cut through the plains, but in the end the stone and rock shrug off such assaults.

While you are in this stance, you gain a +2 bonus on Strength checks, CMB and CMD. You also gain a +2 bonus to AC against creatures of a size category larger than yours.

This stance immediately ends if you move more than 5 feet for any reason, such as from a Bull Rush attack, a Telekinesis spell, and so forth.

These bonus increase by 1 for every 6 initiator levels.

Sudden Leap
Tiger Claw (Boost)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
You leap to a new position in the blink of an eye, leaving your opponents baffled.

You make a Acrobatics check to jump/Jump check as a Swift action, with a +10 competence bonus and you are treated as if you had a running start.

Twilight Eyes
Unquiet Twilight (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
Darkness and twilight become clear as day to your sight.

While you are in this stance, you gain the See in Darkness special ability and can see perfectly, even in total or magical darkness. In addition, you gain Low-Light Vision. If you already have Low-Light Vision, you gain the ability to see three times the distance of a normal human in dim light instead of twice.

Vanguard Strike
Devoted Spirit (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
You batter aside your foe’s defenses with a vicious, overwhelming attack, leaving them vulnerable to your allies’ blows.

As part of this manoeuvre, you make a melee attack against an opponent you threaten. If this attack hits, all your allies gain a +4 bonus on ranged and melee attacks and CMB against that target until the start of your next turn. This functiona at any range, but your allies must be able to see or be within Blindsight range of the target.

Way of the Fox
Spirit Fox (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
When you strike, you know just how to shift your weight into the attack to knock your opponent off-balance.

While in this stance, you gain a +2 bonus to confirm critical hits, and whenever you inflict a sucessful critical hit, you make a free Trip combat maneouvre against the target with a +2 bonus. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and your opponent cannot try to Trip you if you fail. These bonus increase by 1 for every 8 initiator levels.

Will Beyond Death
Unquiet Twilight (Stance)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You focus your spirit and anchor your will more firmly to your form, so that the powers of the gods cannot stay you.
While you are in this stance, you gain +2 Channel Resistance verses the type of energy (negative or positive) which harms you, or increases your existing Channel Resistance by +2
This bonus increases by 1 for every 6 initiator levels.
This stance has no effect if you are not harmed by by either type of energy.

Wind Stride
Desert Wind (Boost)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round
A warm breeze swirls about you as you move speedily away.

The desert wind envelops you and carries you across the battlefield, giving you a burst of speed to move around and through your enemies. Until the end of your turn, you gain a +10-foot enhancement bonus to all your speeds and you do not need to move in a straight line while running or charging for one round.

Wolf Fang Strike
Tiger Claw (Strike)
Level: 1st
Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
You lash out in a blur of movement with two weapons, hacking into your foe with a combination of feral strength and speed.

You tap into the speed and strength embodied within your feral spirit.

You must fight with two weapons to use this manoeuvre. If you carry only one weapon, you can choose to make an unarmed strike with your off hand (as an unarmed attack) if you so wish.

As part of this manoeuvre, you make an attack with both weapons you wield against one opponent. Both attacks must target the same creature, and you take a –2 penalty on each attack roll. You attacks deal weapon damage as normal.




Okay so. Things aren't quite as bas as I thought. Most of the strikes seem to be actually still be reasonably balanced against Path of War, it was mainly adding some scaling to the stances. That hopefully means this is MARGINALLY less of a nightmare than I thought it might be. (Since I've, like, done 1/9 levels of maneouvres... Though they do get smaller the higher you go up.)

However... Falling Star.

I keep looking over my set of rules and it's just... Elecletic at best. As my player-what-used it was okay with my taking it out... I think I'm going to do that.

(For the sake or arguement, here's the PDF (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dDKBopBf4WC2cQ6HpnB8ijIxLz5ugRmM/view?usp=sharing), freshly upload to my google drive. See what I mean? Also, Terror of the Vast Expanse is FRACKING broken, so much so both me and my player hard nerfed the saving through to a reasonable 14+ mod. Saves based on damage are TRIVIAL to buff to the point they may as well read "you just fail, mate," which basically gave the character an automatic no-save fear effect on any enemy he liked.)

Problem is, I then have to replace it. Which means on the one hand taking out all the feats. And on the other, having to make new feats to balance internally against what the ToN traditions have (two feats, one tactical feat) instead of the Path of War three style feats.

I'm also not quite sure which ranged discipline from PoW to replace it with (Tempest Gale...?) as a basic generic, or whether to cry and add two. But in doing so, that ABSOLUTELY commits me to probably to pretty much doubling the size of the Tob Schools (else I'll have to take, like half of PoW school). Or do I kludge up a new tradition from Falling Star by pasting parts of the PoW stuff onto the husk of Falling Star?

The limitation of trying to get enough of the not-maneouvres done so I can start spellchecking and printing stuff for Mondey evening is starting to press a bit heavily too.

[Aotrs Commander]

For the sake of arguement, I have updated the stuff in the current posts. But that's as far as I think this is going here.

I have basically done the classes and am well into sorting the maneouvres. However, given the ringing silence for the last basically week's worth of work (seriously, I put off doing Actual Work to get ahead of this because it was bothering me it was piling up), at this point, I don't feel it is worth my time to spend the considerable effort to post it up here, as there is no commentary or back-and-forth.

(Not that I would have been able to in the massive effort to try and get as much as possible ready for Monday anyway.)

My time is limited and if I'm just using my own judgement anyway, there's very little point in shouting into the void for the sake of it. (And I spend ALL my time doing that for work and I'm frankly sick of it.) I will put a note in the thread when I have "finished" properly, and if anyone is then interested, they can PM me or something and I can send you the relevant files or something (though you'll have to do your own 3.Aotrs extractions at that point).

[DammitVictor]

I don't have much useful to say, but I'm working on a similar project-- rebuilding 5e around Path of War-- and I just wanted to express my appreciation and encouragement. You've convinced me to give ToB a closer look and to compare its martial disciplines more closely to PoW's to see what should be ported over whole and what should be absorbed into the overall system.

So, thank you for this and thank you for that.

[Aotrs Commander]

I don't have much useful to say, but I'm working on a similar project-- rebuilding 5e around Path of War-- and I just wanted to express my appreciation and encouragement. You've convinced me to give ToB a closer look and to compare its martial disciplines more closely to PoW's to see what should be ported over whole and what should be absorbed into the overall system.

So, thank you for this and thank you for that.

I have, technically, done (in that I have at least made a full pass of the manouvres in ToB (and the homebrew three schools/disciplines/traditions I also used; I did in the end ditch Falling Star for Tempest Gale officiall). I am now in the process of laboriously copying up the cards (and perform a Second Paragraph Fluff-ectomy) as I do so; I was going to post up to say I'd finished when that was actually done.

(I may still round out the stuff up to closer to the numbers of manouvres/stances of Path of War, but I felt the next job was to actually Make Cards and get them sorted out before I did any more.)

If is would be of use to you, I could provide the documents as required (either by google doc or PM me am email or something), where at least you can see the stuff I considered needed addressing and such.