Spell Hoarding clarifications

[tepes]

so I had a few questions about the rules and functions of the spell hoarding related abilities of the template in question (source DR #313), and honestly a full breakdown of how it works step by step would be much appreciated in case there's anything else I am not understanding correctly.

1. could a spell hoarding dragon lose ALL of its spells known (thus rendering it functionally unable to spellcast or catch) through use of its 'cast from spell hoard' and/or 'spell hoard burning' ability's? even ones that it has by merit of any wizard levels it possesses?

2.can a spell hoarding dragon have multiple "versions" of the same spell in its spell hoard via its 'spellcatching' ability? this (i would say) is a rather important (and my main) question considering its answers impact on the creatures overall power. particularly the power and viability of 'cast from spell hoard ' and 'spell hoard burning' plummet if the dragon in question completely loses access to a spell with each use

Cast from Spell Hoard (Sp): In times of need, the dragon may cast spells directly from its spell hoard, in much the same way as an ordinary spell caster can cast from a scroll The number of spells per day that the dragon may cast in this fashion is equal to its caster level plus its Intelligence modifier. Such a spell functions as if the dragon had cast it normally (that is, it is cast at the dragon's caster level, and any benefits the dragon would ordinarily gain from feats or items apply), A spell cast in this way is erased from the dragons spell hoard, just as a scroll spell is erased on casting. However* the dragon may later replace that spell by scribing a new version to its hoard.

Wizard Casting; A spellhoarding dragon prepares and casts spells as a wizard* not as a sorcerer. Use its Intelligence score rather than its
Charisma to determine saving throw DCs, bonus spells, and the level of spells available for casting. Spellhoarding dragons do not use spellbooks: they memorize spells From their spell hoards.

Spell Hoard (Su); Any spelt the dragon learns takes physical form on its body as a rune or arcane symbol scribed upon one of its scales. The dragon may prepare spells from those in its spell hoard just as a wizard prepares spells from her spell-book. To add a spell to its spell hoard, the dragon must complete a process similar to how a wizard scribes spells into a spell book.

Spell Hoard Burning (Su): As a free action, a spellhoarding dragon may trade In a spell from its spell hoard to supply the XP and gp costs for a particularly costly spell Each spell level burnt for this purpose generates the equivalent of either 20 XP or too gp. The dragon loses the spell it has burnt from its spell hoard, although it can replace it by scribing another copy. All XP and gp equivalents acquired in this manner remain available until used as components for spellcasting or spellcatching {see below). They cannot be expended for any other purpose.

Spellcatching (Su); Spellcatching is an improved form of counterspelling. It functions like normal counter¬ spelling, except that the dragon may use any spell of the same level or higher as the countered spell so long as it either comes from the same school or has a descriptor In com¬ mon with the spell to be countered. For example, any 3rd-level or higher spell with the fire descriptor or from the evocation school can be used to spellcatch a fireball. The dragon must also expend a gem worth at least 100 gp per level of the spell* or burn spells from its spellhoard to generate the same gp value. If the spellcatching attempt succeeds, the dragon counters the spell and immediately adds it to its spellhoard.

I know that this may be a rather tedious to answer question due to the obscure and somewhat vague nature of the source and do apologize if there inset really a clear and concise answer at all (as i could see that being the case) but thanks in advance :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

The most straightforward way to handle this is probably to say Spellhoard = Spellbook. So a spellhoarding dragon could add spells by transcribing scrolls, copying spells from another spellbook (or, presumably, from another Spellhoard, if you happen to manage to find another cooperative dragon with the same abilities), or copying an already-memorized instance of a spell back into the Spellhoard. A dragon that burnt its entire spellhoard would then be like a Wizard with an empty spell book - they would indeed lose the ability to memorize any new spells, because they have nothing to study from when memorizing, and would need to invest a significant amount of both time and gold into getting access to a source of spells to copy and in re-transcribing those spells into their Spellbookhoard. (Note any spells they -already had memorized- would be usable, but if they spent down their entire spellhoard they would have nothing to use to refresh those spent slots or change their memorized spells to new ones.)

As for the second question - unknown. There is, AFAIK, no rules regarding having a spell copied into a spellbook multiple times, because for most casters there is no reason to ever do so. I'm inclined to say yes, if a dragon really wants to have multiple copies of a spell hoarded they can do so, but it'd mostly be a way of rendering parts of their (physical treasure hoard) into a portable part of their spellhoard, since they'd have had to spend the time and gold originally to copy the spells into their 'spellbook'.. which might be appealing to the kind of dragon that winds up being a Spellhoarder anyways.

[Bphill561]

What's annoying is it is a supernatural ability, but it says you can lose all your spells to a disjunction. That seems like a major drawback. It also states that is the way you remove the dragon's psychosis so it is clearly possible to loss all your spells. In that case though you would eventually revert back to a sorcerer if the condition is removed.

I would definitely put multiple copies in the spellhoard, especially spells you might want to cast in an emergency but not keep prepared. Since it works like a spellbook, I would want to multiclass into Geometer to get those page numbers down assuming it would work on the hoard. There is also a dragon magazine feat that cuts the number of pages in half.

[Malphegor]

Something I keep saying to myself with plans to eventually play a spellhording loredrake tome dragon one day is ‘backup all data you have’.

Spellhoarding is great as it brings back the 2e style ‘tear a page out from your spellbook to cast it as a scroll’ mechanic I wish 3.5 kept, but you don’t want to lose your hoard as much as any dragon does.

The solution?

Just buy spellbooks like a normal wizard to create hardcopy backups in your lair (or create architecture in your lair that functions as spellbooks).

Your scales are thus your ‘travel spellbook’ while you have your deep storage chained to the walls heavily trapped super-arcanuabla made of excessively expensive supermaterials that animate to bite if intruders try to read them without your permission in the place where you keep your gold and princess cages and Three Dragon Ante trading cards and other things dragons hoard.

the scales are how you capture new spells but you eventually between stressful days dissect them and save them somewhere secure in case someone wipes your dragon usb of the files you downloaded.