Looking for help with a gish class feature

[Calen]

Hi, I am fiddling around with a gish type class and contemplating how to deal with the MADness of the class.

I could...
1. Ignore it. Players choose what ability scores they want to focus on.

2. Allow melee attacks to be made with the casters ability attribute, like Battle Smith.

3. Something kicking around in my mind that I would like some feedback on. I figure this would be level 1 or 2.

-- Feature name TBD -- Your strength and intelligence go hand in hand. If your strength modifier is lower than your intelligence modifier you may add (1? 2? Half proficiency rounded down?) to your strength based attack roles. If your intelligence modifier is lower than your strength modifier you may add (same number) to your spell attacks and saving throws. If both your strength and intelligence modifiers are the same value then you may (add 1 to both your saving throws and spell and melee attacks.//some other bonus?)
Should there be language here that would cap the bonus to the same value you would have at 20[+5]?
I am split between using intelligence and wisdom as the class casting stat. Would that make a difference in anything?

Anything that I am missing here?

Thanks

[MrStabby]

The way I see it is that a Gish type class should be a bit MAD. They tend to be decently powerful and, especially if you look at things like the paladin, its like they get a few feat's worth of cool extra abilities as a nod towards their having to invest in ASIs.

A split between a physical and a casting stat has a lot of good things, from a design perspective. For a start, it keeps different characers using the same class feeling a bit differen as you can bil them in different ways, prioritising different stats. It makes for more ineresting choices and trade-offs in characer development.

As you note, it isn't a binary thing though. Things like the blade pact invocation for warlocks that add Cha to damage (but not to hit) or tools like spiritual weapon that gives a cleric two attacks per round, one of which is a spell attack.

There are other options as well - for example spells to effectively boost power. Mediocre strength can be offset by spells that give advantage like improved invisability or shadows of moil.

As for int or wisdom - it deends on the baance of combat and non combat. Int is probably a bit better out of combat, wis is a lot better in combat as it fuels perception and is the save for a lot of spells.




I wish you luck with this - I have struggled to make a gish homebrew I am genuinely happy with. There seems to be a broad area where they felt to me to be both overpowered and underwhelming.

[Notafish]

-- Feature name TBD -- Your strength and intelligence go hand in hand. If your strength modifier is lower than your intelligence modifier you may add (1? 2? Half proficiency rounded down?) to your strength based attack roles. If your intelligence modifier is lower than your strength modifier you may add (same number) to your spell attacks and saving throws. If both your strength and intelligence modifiers are the same value then you may (add 1 to both your saving throws and spell and melee attacks.//some other bonus?)
Should there be language here that would cap the bonus to the same value you would have at 20[+5]?
I am split between using intelligence and wisdom as the class casting stat. Would that make a difference in anything?


I think a lot depends on the other features in the class, as well as the archetypal theme you are trying to evoke. Not knowing whether this is more of a damage-dealer or a support class, my main question is how well this feature would translate into the fiction. I can easily imagine how an intelligent or wise character would apply their mental acuity to combat; how would a strong but not terribly bright character apply their strength to spell casting (especially within the same class?). This might be something to put as an option in a sub-class, so that the character can choose an option that aligns with other benefits for their particular style of gish.

For bonuses to low stats, I think half-proficiency would work well. For the MAD gishes, I'd make them choose a bonus to attack or damage (but not both).

[Old Harry MTX]

When I created my version of a gish I opted to simply use the spellcaster ability for weapon attacks. This was because the class already had other limitations (I won't go into details, but I tried to write a mechanic to give spells a maneuver-like feeling), and I felt there was room for that. In your case, you should consider the general balance, and as others have said, the role that the class must have. Alternatively, you could just try adding Shillelag to the spell list.

[Calen]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I'll fiddle with it some more. Whenever it gets to a more finished state I'll show up again for more input and critique.