Temporarily Known Spells

[Burley]

So, a while back I remember arguing about whether my Wizard/Warlock could scribe his Warlock spells into his spellbook, if paying the requisite cost. But, by the RAW, you can only put a spell in a spellbook by copying it from a scroll or other spellbook. Kinda a booboo concept that "I can't write down a spell I know," but oh well.


Until, wait. Because I've got this artificer now and the artificer has an All-Purpose Tool. So, each day I can cast a cantrip of my choice from any spell list as though it were an artificer cantrip. And, also, because I'm trained in Arcana, I can craft a cantrip scroll for 15gp. The entry (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/downtime-revisited#ScribingaSpellScroll) states that, to scribe a scroll, I "must have the spell prepared, or it must be among [my] known spells."

So, when I use the All-Purpose Tool, do I have the cantrip prepared? There's no precedent for "preparing cantrips," because you don't. So, what do you think? Can my screwdriver turn into a pen to write down the spell my screwdriver taught me?

[Dork_Forge]

Off the top of my head I see no issue with it making scrolls of cantrip, but you couldn't then learn those cantrips, just cast the cantrip from the scroll.

[Anymage]

Strict RAW? Cantrips are always known, not prepared. Even the Tasha's rule that lets wizards swap out cantrips, the closest you'd get to the idea of cantrip preparation, says that "you can replace one cantrip you know with another cantrip from the wizard spell list". And All-Purpose Tool says that you can "choose a cantrip that you don't know" with later text only saying that you can cast said cantrip. A strict read says that you can cast it instead of knowing it and that the not-known state doesn't change, so not known and thus not scribeable.

RAI? Being flexible on item prerequisites is very much in the artificer's idiom, and seems to have been left out only because magic item creation is more of an afterthought in 5e. Letting you make items regardless of personal spellcasting prerequisites makes sense to be an added perk to Magic Item Savant. Spell scrolls and minor potions could come on line earlier, and I doubt that a cantrip scroll is going to break anything, but making in-depth rules about what level an artificer would need to be to make what magic items sounds more fiddly than 5e likes.

[JackPhoenix]

"Copying a Spell into the Book: When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it."

[Slipjig]

I'm a little unclear: is you end goal to craft cantrip spell scrolls, or are you trying to fudge the "Cantrips Known" rules so that you know every Cantrip in the game? As a DM, I'd provisionally let you do the former (with the understanding that if it turns out to be a problem, it goes away). But I DEFINITELY wouldn't let you do the latter. It's clearly not RAW: a spell must be 1st level or higher to be scribed into your book. And from a gameplay perspective it would be completely broken, both from a balance AND a "everybody at the table has fun" perspective.

[Chronos]

Cantrip scrolls are pretty underpowered, anyway, since they're a single use of something that's balanced around being at-will. If you want to spend gold on those, go ahead and make as many as you want.

But as others have said, you can't do anything with those cantrip scrolls other than using them to cast the cantrip once.

[Burley]

"Copying a Spell into the Book: When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it."

Yeah, that's for putting a spell in your spellbook and, because of the "decipher and copy" bit, the previous argument resolved that, even if I know a spell as a Warlock, I can't put it in my spellbook unless it is first turned into a scroll.

This conversation is whether an artificer can scribe a cantrip scroll of whatever cantrip is granted by the All-Purpose Tool. The item tells you to choose a cantrip you don't know, but I guess, per the phrasing of the item, you never end up knowing it. You can cast it, but without knowing it? I'm inclined to interpret that as preparing the spell, but yah, Anymage, you don't prepare cantrips.

I guess it's a "No by RAW." Doesn't stop me from spending 10gp more and just scribing 1st level spells, so, whatevs. NBD.

[JonBeowulf]

"Copying a Spell into the Book: When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it."


Yeah, that's for putting a spell in your spellbook and, because of the "decipher and copy" bit, the previous argument resolved that, even if I know a spell as a Warlock, I can't put it in my spellbook unless it is first turned into a scroll.

I don't see how you're getting passed the "it only works for wizard spells" restriction. If it's not on the Wizard list, it can't be added to your book. Whether or not the spell is on a scroll is irrelevant.

[Anymage]

If you want the fluff of saying you have all the cantrips in your book, there's a Tasha's feature that works towards that end. Being able to swap out a cantrip on daily spell preparation feels a lot like preparing your cantrips as part of overall daily spell prep.

If you want to exceed your cantrips known count or get nonwizard spells into your spellbook, you need a feature that explicitly says as much. And while the fluff might be a bit mutable (E.G: taking MI: Warlock and saying that the spells are just odd forms you've adjusted to wizardry), you'll still have to abide by the rules of whatever feature. Your MI spills will still run off of whatever casting stat the relevant class asks for, and nonwizard spells won't interact with wizard subclass features that specify wizard spells. Trying to do otherwise is pretty transparent cheese.

[Burley]

I don't see how you're getting passed the "it only works for wizard spells" restriction. If it's not on the Wizard list, it can't be added to your book. Whether or not the spell is on a scroll is irrelevant.

I guess you don't see. Some spells are on Wizard and Warlock lists. Knowing them as a Warlock doesn't let you scribe them into your spellbook, unless you first create a scroll and copy it.

The conversation now, though, is scribing a cantrip which you have prepared but technically don't know.


If you want to exceed your cantrips known count or get nonwizard spells into your spellbook, you need a feature that explicitly says as much. And while the fluff might be a bit mutable (E.G: taking MI: Warlock and saying that the spells are just odd forms you've adjusted to wizardry), you'll still have to abide by the rules of whatever feature. Your MI spills will still run off of whatever casting stat the relevant class asks for, and nonwizard spells won't interact with wizard subclass features that specify wizard spells. Trying to do otherwise is pretty transparent cheese.

I don't want to exceed my count or anything. I want to produce scrolls, but the Artificer spell list is limited, so, I'm trying to maximize my scrollable options.