Shillelagh

[Pex]

My inner rules lawyer itch is agitating.

I'm in a game where for several rounds of play the druid player casts and attacks with Primal Savagery then as a bonus action casts and attacks with Shillelagh. Is this correct? My understanding of Shillelagh is the spell only enchants the quarterstaff. To attack with it is its own Attack action. You do not make an attack with that same bonus action, so the druid's attack routine Primal Savagery/Shillelagh can't work. The DM is not having an issue with it. I haven't said anything. I'm pretty sure I'm right, but if I make note of the error I know I would be such an annoying $#&@! ruining a player's fun presuming the DM hadn't already house ruled to allow this as opposed to neither understanding how the spell works.

Rules lawyers get a bad rep, with good reason, but they (we) can be a force of good when players and the DM really want to play by the rules. The Rules Lawyer is teaching, not trying to (mis)interpret a rule to get away with something to Win D&D. However, you have to pick your battles. Don't yuck the yum.

[LibraryOgre]

My understanding of Shillelagh is the spell only enchants the quarterstaff. To attack with it is its own Attack action.

This is correct. The cantrip says

"The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon,"

It says nothing about making an attack with it, as you get for Green Flame Blade and the like; it just gives you a magical weapon that you wield with your casting stat. It's a bonus action every 1 minute... it's cheap for the value.

[Keltest]

You are correct. Shillelagh only enchants the weapon, it doesnt let you attack with it.

[Theodoxus]

There aren't many spells that are bonus action, that do something and then let you attack as well. Spiritual Weapon would be the most famous of these.

Compare the wording:

Shillelagh
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Touch
Duration: 1 minute
Effect: "The wood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued with nature's power. For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon..." (meaning you have to use the attack action, which was already subsumed by the Cast a Spell action of Primal Savagery.

Spiritual Weapon
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 60 feet
Duration: 1 minute
Effect: "You create a floating, spectral weapon within range that lasts for the duration or until you cast this spell again. When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon."

Now, as you noted, it's possible the DM has ruled that Shillelagh follows the same basic idea as Spiritual Weapon (that would be a massive increase in power for a cantrip, but I don't think it really breaks anything, Druids aren't exactly melee powerhouses when in caster form - and Shillelagh doesn't scale in damage).

So, if possible, I would check with the DM out of game just to see if he's made a change, didn't realize it was wrong, or didn't even register what the player was doing... I wouldn't point it out at the table, unless it's AL... and even then, I'd caution against it... I made the mistake of correcting an AL DM the first night I ever played, telling him that Initiative is an ability check and Halfling Luck worked on it (it wasn't even my character, just didn't want the guy playing the halfling Rogue to be screwed out of initiative). DM had the hate on me for months afterwards.

[diplomancer]

Saying what a rule is is not rules-lawyering. Rules-lawyering is getting several different rules and trying to squeeze new rules out of their interactions in order to get some advantage.

After you've said what the rule is, if the DM disagrees, stop. It's then not about rules lawyering, but about being annoying and disrupting the flow of the game.

In this particular case, because it's about someone else's character, it's best to deal with it away from the table directly with the DM. Once the DM is informed on what the rule is, he can decide whether to enforce it or not. If he chooses, for whatever reason, not to enforce it, either deal with it or leave, don't argue about it with him.

[LudicSavant]

My understanding of Shillelagh is the spell only enchants the quarterstaff.

Your understanding is correct.

And for the record, speaking as both a longtime GM and player, I enjoy having people who know the rules at my table. I would have considerably more of an issue with a player who started namecalling another for just sharing their awareness of the rules. Shame on them if they mistreat you so for pointing this out.

[Kane0]

My party currently features a nature cleric, shillelagh followed up by spiritual weapon is his bread and butter. Honestly the cantrip would probably have worked better in bladetrip style, so you could do that in the same turn and you dont have to spam it every minute to keep it running.

[Theodoxus]

I agree Kane0. I'm sure if it came out in a splat after SCAG, it would have worked similarly. Although, I think if it was a bonus action cast/attack, it would still be too powerful, so it would probably still not work with a primal savagery attack in the same round...

[Kane0]

Shillelagh (bladetrip version)
Transmutation cantrip
Cast time: action
Range: touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: instant

One club or quarterstaff you are holding is imbued. Make an attack with the weapon, using your casting stat for attack amd damage. This weapon attack is consistered magical for the purposes of overcoming damage resistance and immunity.
At levels 5, 11 and 17 this attack deals an additional 1d6 damage

[Tanarii]

Definitely no attack.

Speaking of Shillelagh and rules lawyering ...
https://youtu.be/2ONqZ8Mxweo


My party currently features a nature cleric, shillelagh followed up by spiritual weapon is his bread and butter.
But hopefully not on the same round. :smallamused:

[Kane0]

But hopefully not on the same round. :smallamused:

If he has it precast he can open with it, but most of the time its a two-turn setup. Sometimes he will use spike growth instead though, we are often outnumbered

[Mastikator]

My party currently features a nature cleric, shillelagh followed up by spiritual weapon is his bread and butter. Honestly the cantrip would probably have worked better in bladetrip style, so you could do that in the same turn and you dont have to spam it every minute to keep it running.

heythatsillegal.gif

But weirdly it's perfectly fine if he does spiritual weapon and then shillelagh

[Kane0]

Thats what i meant. ‘Followed up’ in the sense of next turn.

[kazaryu]

My inner rules lawyer itch is agitating.

I'm in a game where for several rounds of play the druid player casts and attacks with Primal Savagery then as a bonus action casts and attacks with Shillelagh. Is this correct? My understanding of Shillelagh is the spell only enchants the quarterstaff. To attack with it is its own Attack action. You do not make an attack with that same bonus action, so the druid's attack routine Primal Savagery/Shillelagh can't work. The DM is not having an issue with it. I haven't said anything. I'm pretty sure I'm right, but if I make note of the error I know I would be such an annoying $#&@! ruining a player's fun presuming the DM hadn't already house ruled to allow this as opposed to neither understanding how the spell works.

Rules lawyers get a bad rep, with good reason, but they (we) can be a force of good when players and the DM really want to play by the rules. The Rules Lawyer is teaching, not trying to (mis)interpret a rule to get away with something to Win D&D. However, you have to pick your battles. Don't yuck the yum.

as others have said, you're correct about the spell.

if its something you want to bring up, but you're worried about it harming peoples fun, you might consider approaching the DM independently and seeing if they're aware and they're just letting the druid do it as a houserul or w/e.

obviously you probably shouldn't insist on him kiboshing it, unless its actually ruining your fun. but it sounds like your best bet is to talk to the DM