Gloom Stalker build help

[huginn]

Hello
I am making a Gloom Stalker starting at lvl 5 with race being variant human and was planning on using druidic warrior fighting style to get Shillelagh and polearm mastery as my my feat

However DM decided that we roll stats and I had got lucky. 10,13,15,15,18,18 with those stats pretty much any MAD build is much more viable and I am becoming a little indecisive. Part of the reason why I leaning towards PAM is group has 1 person with sharpshooter, 2 with sword and shield and 1 with greatsword. I prefer using weapons no one else is using also we will be spending bulk of the time underground with most combat being close range

With those stats I can get an halberd, PAM along with sentinel and/or GWM
What I been debating is
1)What to do to at levels 4,8 and possibly 12. Get sentinel or GWM first at level 4 or some other feat? Resilient con has some merit as DM seems to like using poison. With an 18 strength I probably can put off an ASI until 8 or 12.
2)fighting style-defense or blind fighting. Druidic warrior may have some merit

In case this matters I am taking favored foe and deft explorer
I am open to suggestions about other builds

[Bobthewizard]

Skip druidic warrior. With those stats you don't need shillelagh. Put your 18's in STR and WIS. Bump one of the 15's to 16 and put it in CON. You could put the other +1 into STR to set up a half-feat at 4. PAM at level 1 is great.

I prefer spear and shield over halberd. Then take dueling fighting style for +2 damage. If you want a halberd, take defense fighting style to make up for the lack of a shield. I'd bump STR to 20 at 4, either with a +2 or a STR half-feat (slasher/piercer, HAM, or skill expert).

You might want to consider another race. A race the gives you +2 STR would let you start with a 20 STR, then you'd take PAM at 4 and you'd be in the same place as human but with better racial abilities.

[da newt]

I love a Gloomstalker - my preference is to dip Twilight Cleric for 300' dark vision, ADV on initiative, cantrips and spells, and then go SS. With your stats and Vhuman, you can also add Xbow Xpert and go Jon Wick with a hand Xbow. Zephyr Strike and Archery FS are handy for offsetting the -5/+10 when you can't get ADV other ways, and the underdark is a great place to be INV to folks w/ dark vision, and you'll want good stealth to really take advantage of being INV.

My concern is that it sounds like your party is all weapon all the time - no casters. Is this a party choice?

[diplomancer]

Skip druidic warrior. With those stats you don't need shillelagh. Put your 18's in STR and WIS. Bump one of the 15's to 16 and put it in CON. You could put the other +1 into STR to set up a half-feat at 4. PAM at level 1 is great.

I prefer spear and shield over halberd. Then take dueling fighting style for +2 damage. If you want a halberd, take defense fighting style to make up for the lack of a shield. I'd bump STR to 20 at 4, either with a +2 or a STR half-feat (slasher/piercer, HAM, or skill expert).

You might want to consider another race. A race the gives you +2 STR would let you start with a 20 STR, then you'd take PAM at 4 and you'd be in the same place as human but with better racial abilities.

I definitely agree that, if the two 18s are before racial, V. Human is not the best choice. Bugbear pairs particularly well with Gloom Stalker, if the race fits the campaign. If you still want to go PAM, you can start with Str 20, Wis 19, get PAM at 4, Fey-Touched (Gift of Alacrity) at 8, you'll have a very powerful first round. Even if it's still after racial, would still be worth it, I think.

You could also choose to go Dex and Wis instead of Str and Wis and get at least one Monk level. Your AC will be about as good (better later), you can wield your staff/spear two handed for 1d8 damage instead of a d6, and your Martial Arts attack is the same damage as the PAM bonus action attack (no reaction attack, though, but I'm not sure the full feat is worth it just for the reaction attack). 2 Ki is just about enough to have one extra attack on the first round of 2 different combats, which enhances your alpha strike, so two levels of Monk at least will be good (and both the extra movement and the extra reach from Bugbear will help increase your chances of getting in those first round attacks you so want to capitalize on).

[CTurbo]

I'd definitely go Bugbear and PAM. I don't think I would consider GWM. The only "problem" I can see is despite going Str, you really don't want heavy armor because stealth is always going to be important for you. This could possibly be an extreme niche circumstance that the Medium Armor Master feat makes sense as you could wear Half-Plate and still have an AC of 19 with the Defense Fighting Style.

I could see some merit in sticking with Dex and taking a level or 2 of Monk. Martial Arts would end up being similar to PAM in the end. Maybe long term 6 levels of Shadow Monk on your Gloom Stalker would be amazing.

[huginn]

I definitely agree that, if the two 18s are before racial, V. Human is not the best choice. Bugbear pairs particularly well with Gloom Stalker, if the race fits the campaign. If you still want to go PAM, you can start with Str 20, Wis 19, get PAM at 4, Fey-Touched (Gift of Alacrity) at 8, you'll have a very powerful first round. Even if it's still after racial, would still be worth it, I think.

The stats are before any racial adjustments and bugbears may not work in this campaign. as they have been attacking the area along with Orcs and Kobolds. When the DM allows bugbears it will the legacy one
I was considering V. Human as it would give two 18's and two 16's. I did look at some races that give me a 20 strength but then I have a 15 I have to put somewhere and do I leave it at 15? I was considering half orcs and dwarves. I and another player lost the characters we had due to failed con saves against poison and rolling ones on death saves.



My concern is that it sounds like your party is all weapon all the time - no casters. Is this a party choice?

Party has a paladin with great sword,ranger using sword and shield but sometimes 2 short swords,bard with long bow and sharpshooter and cleric with mace and shield. A another person may join us and she have a druid she was already suppose to join us but has personal issues to take care first. The paladin is only one that is in way anyway optimized

[Ir0ns0ul]

It seems your party has very good melee coverage, I would double down at long range, but get Crossbow Expert to differentiate from the Bard. I would go Custom Lineage to get 20 DEX and CBE since the beginning. Then Resilient CON at 4 and Sharpshooter at 8.

[CTurbo]

As somebody who almost always gets to roll for stats and build characters using similar stat lines, I usually try to find a character concept that utilizes such stats and that often leads me to playing Barbs, Monks, Paladins, and fancy off the wall multiclasses. That doesn't mean you can build a really good Gloom Stalker though. You just need to figure out what you want. I know I always take the opportunity to start with 20 in my main stat. I know I would personally rather start 20, 18, 16, 15 than 18, 18, 16, 16. That 4th 15 seems very unimportant to me.

I would choose a race that gets you the 20. You could even be a Mountain Dwarf and start 20 Str and 20 Con. Grab Fey Touched at 4 or 8 to bump Wis to 16. Dwarven Resilience gets you advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage. You could go PAM at 4 or 8

I got it! Go Yuan-Ti for total poison immunity lol 18 Str, 15 Dex, 18 Con, 13+1 Int, 15 Wis, and 10+2 Cha. Still bump Wis to 16 with Fey Touched and grab PAM at 4 and 8.

[Mastikator]

One of the benefits of Shillelagh that should be taken into consideration is that it counts as a magic weapon and thus bypasses non-magic damage resistance. I'd probably want both Shillelagh, PAM and duelist. You can get all three as a 5th level variant human ranger, grab PAM at level 1, duelist at level 2, then at level 4 grab magic initiate for druid and take Shillelagh, another druid cantrip like guidance or thorn whip, and a 1st level spell, like goodberry or healing word.

With those excellent rolled stats I'd honestly go:
STR 10
DEX 18
CON 15 +1
INT 15 +1
WIS 18
CHA 13

Grab perception proficiency and with Canny (from Tasha's) expertise in perception, you will be the master of perception.
Also grab stealth and with high dex you will have good stealth. Then take the spell Pass Without Trace and now your whole group is nearly undetectable.
Your AC with studded leather and a shield would be 12 + 4 + 2 = 18, good enough for level 5. Your attacks are +7 to hit, 1d6+6 + 1d6+6 + 1d4+6 (plus one more attack at round 1 with 1d6+1d8+6), all magic bludgeoning. You'll have quite a lot going for you.

At level 8 I'd max out wisdom.

[Leon]

I'd go Monk 2/ Ranger 3+ Nice mix of mobility, defense and stealth.

[diplomancer]

I really don't think raising your 4th best stat is a very good idea, and as I like Res (Con) too much, I'd probably not raise it either, leaving it at 15 at first.

So, here's a list of possible options.

1: Go Mountain Dwarf (if using Tasha's both for ASI's and for swapping proficiencies), start with 20 in both your main stats. Get PAM at 4, Res(Con) at 8
2: go V. Human, raise your two main stats, get PAM, and round them up to 20 at level 4. A bit like Mountain Dwarf, you end up with better speed and one more skill, but no poison resistance and fewer tool proficiencies.
3: go Custom Lineage. The advantage here over V. Human is that you don't have to raise your Wis just yet, leaving it at 18, so you can already grab Res(Con) at 4, or some other feat (Resilient is better at higher levels).


And I'd still say that, with these amazing stats, Monk is a very good dip option, that gives you better AC and allows you to skip PAM while keeping some of its benefits. Main problem is level 5 itself if you don't take PAM; you don't want to start as Ranger 4/Monk 1, but as a Ranger 5 you still wouldn't have a bonus action attack. Going Monk also allows you to use a staff/spear with Dex, which is also good. I'd probably start level 5 with Rapier and Shield, and switch it out to just Quarterstaff/Spear at level 6 (with better AC!).

Main difficulty is Fighting Style, I believe Blindfighting would be your best choice. Mariner (UA) if DM allows it would also be very good.

[CTurbo]

I still like the Monk dip idea too. If you can use Tasha's optional rules on ASIs, Mountain Dwarf with a 20 Dex and 20 Wis seems like a no brainer. If not, Hill Dwarf could still be a good idea. Put 18 in Dex and you could either have 20 Con and 16 Wis or flip them and start with 17 Con and 19 Wis and +1/+1 them at level 8. Any race that gives you +2 Dex and +1 Con would have you starting 20 Dex, 16 Con, 18 Wis.

The only possible downside to Monk is no shield or PAM with reach, but with a high Dex/Wis you wouldn't need a shield anyway.

I'd start Monk 1/Ranger 4 and then obviously go Ranger for a while. Eventually more Monk levels would add a lot. I definitely wouldn't go past Ranger 11.

[Foxydono]

With those stats I would try a build custom lineage Bladesinger with a 1 level barb dib (pre Tasha's I believe this is possible?). You need a high Int, Dex and Con to make it work. You can start off with warcaster and 20 int, 18 dex and 15 con. Your base AC will be 15 with unarmored defense, with Bladesinger it goes up to 20 and with the shield spell 25, but correct me if I am wrong. You are also proficient in Con saving throws, meaning you have a (with bladesong active) 3 (prof bonus) +2 (con) +5 (int) = +10 and advantage on maintaining concentration.

At level 5, assuming normal enemies for that level, won't be able to touch you. You want to go first starting with bladesong, so I'd take alert as my second feat. At level 9 take resilient Wisdom to get +6 to Wis saves or skill expert for 1 more con and expertise in arcana. Not being able to cast 3rd level spells and not having a 2nd attack will cripple you a little starting off, but by 6th level (3rd level spells- haste?!) and 7th level (extra attack) you will be a force to be reckoned with.

I am not saying the above build is better then a gloom stalker, because that is a very solid class. But, a full blown caster that can tank and do solid melee damage is good to have in any party. If you stick with gloom stalker, I would consider going half elf with elven accuracy. Your stats would be 20, 20, 16, 15, 13, 10. Furthermore, going rogue after level 5 is a good way to go. Crits go well with sneak attack and expertise and cunning action (or steady aim) will give you many options to play with.

Anyway, do what you think is fun to play. You can't really go wrong in 5e!

[Gignere]

With those stats I would try a build custom lineage Bladesinger with a 1 level barb dib (pre Tasha's I believe this is possible?). You need a high Int, Dex and Con to make it work. You can start off with warcaster and 20 int, 18 dex and 15 con. Your base AC will be 15 with unarmored defense, with Bladesinger it goes up to 20 and with the shield spell 25, but correct me if I am wrong. You are also proficient in Con saving throws, meaning you have a (with bladesong active) 3 (prof bonus) +2 (con) +5 (int) = +10 and advantage on maintaining concentration.

At level 5, assuming normal enemies for that level, won't be able to touch you. You want to go first starting with bladesong, so I'd take alert as my second feat. At level 9 take resilient Wisdom to get +6 to Wis saves or skill expert for 1 more con and expertise in arcana. Not being able to cast 3rd level spells and not having a 2nd attack will cripple you a little starting off, but by 6th level (3rd level spells- haste?!) and 7th level (extra attack) you will be a force to be reckoned with.

I am not saying the above build is better then a gloom stalker, because that is a very solid class. But, a full blown caster that can tank and do solid melee damage is good to have in any party. If you stick with gloom stalker, I would consider going half elf with elven accuracy. Your stats would be 20, 20, 16, 15, 13, 10. Furthermore, going rogue after level 5 is a good way to go. Crits go well with sneak attack and expertise and cunning action (or steady aim) will give you many options to play with.

Anyway, do what you think is fun to play. You can't really go wrong in 5e!

Full Bladesinger with the same stats would have the same AC with just studded leather hell if they decide to use mage armor the full Bladesinger would have 21 AC. Don’t see the point of the barbarian dip at all. With 15 con the first feat you’ll want is resilient con anyway.

[Foxydono]

Full Bladesinger with the same stats would have the same AC with just studded leather hell if they decide to use mage armor the full Bladesinger would have 21 AC. Don’t see the point of the barbarian dip at all. With 15 con the first feat you’ll want is resilient con anyway.
You are completely right. I made a mistake thinking you can't use armor at all, but you can wear light armor with the same effect. There is no point going barbarian. Makes it an even better choice though if you ask me.

[diplomancer]

I mean, with these stats you can do pretty much anything you want, but OP asked for suggestions for Gloomstalker :)

[Foxydono]

I mean, with these stats you can do pretty much anything you want, but OP asked for suggestions for Gloomstalker :)
On the buttom he said he was also open for suggestions on other builds. Hence my take on the bladesinger, alongside my view in the gloomstalker. Of course he is free to play what he likes regardless. Just giving him some ideas to play with.

[CTurbo]

With stats like he has, no reason he couldn't be a Gloom Stalker + Bladesinger multiclass.

Put the two 18s in Dex and Int and you'll want them both to 20
Put the two 15s in Con and Wis and you'll want them at least to 16 and would be fine leaving them there.

Choose a race that boosts 2 out of 4 of those. If you choose a +2/+1 race, you'd only need 1 ASI to max your other main stat and 1 half feat like Res(Con) to have 20, 20, 16, 16

At that point just figure out the class split you want.

Gloom Stalker 3/Bladesinger 17?
Gloom Stalker 11/Bladesinger 9?
Gloom Stalker 15/Bladesinger 5?
Gloom Stalker 18/Bladesinger 2?

You have so many options.

Wear light armor and take Defense fighting style? Wear no armor and use Mage Armor and take Dueling style? You could even go with the TWF style. Either option gets you 18AC normally and 23AC in Bladesong.

Throw in 1 level of Monk and bump Wis to 20 also and you could have 25AC while in Bladesong.