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JNAProductions
2023-05-21, 04:07 PM
The Goal
A four man party that can consistently kill a Tarrasque plopped at an arbitrary distance away (probably 600' because Longbow) before it reaches melee and without expending resources other than ammo. The less magic items used, the better.

Bugbear Champion 20
Equipment: Longbow Of Warning with lots and lots of arrows
Starting Stats: Dexterity of 17, everything else irrelevant
ASIs: Sharpshooter, Piercer (+1 Dexterity), Alert, +2 Dexterity, remaining three are irrelevant
Fighting Styles: Archery, remaining one is irrelevant

Combat
Each Champion rolls 2d20b1+10 for init, giving them a 96.44% chance of beating the Tarrasque in init.
Even if it rolls a nat 20, it's still a 79.75% chance of beating it (assuming higher mod wins ties).
If we assume at least three Champions beat the Tarrasque in initiative, the first twelve attacks add +2d6 each.

Each attack hits on a 12-17, for 1d8+5 damage.
Each attack crits on an 18+, for 3d8+5 damage.
Once per turn, a single damage die can be rerolled.
Over 20 attacks, you'd see 3 crits (9d8+15) and 6 hits (6d8+30), for a total of 15d8+45=112.5 damage, or 5.625 damage per attack on average, not accounting for the Piercer once per turn reroll.

Adding 2d6 damage on turn one increases that to 1d8+2d6+5 and 3d8+4d6+5 on hits and crits respectively.
Over 20 attacks (even though maximum number of attacks is 16 of these) you'd see 3 crits (9d8+12d6+15) and 6 hits (6d8+12d6+30), for a total of 15d8+24d6+45=196.5 damage, or 9.825 damage per attack on average (+4.2 damage). Again, not accounting for the Piercer reroll.

The Tarrasque moves 80' (Dash), plus 60' from Legendary Actions for 140' total a round. Champions move back 30' a round.
It will reach Frightful Presence range (which could screw it all over) in about five rounds, but won't be able to do it till round six. In that time, it will take 92-96 attacks. On the lower end (one Champion loses init) it will take 92 attacks, 12 of which have bonus damage, for 517.5+50.4=567.9 damage. Not quite Tarrasque killing enough, unless Piercer rerolls make it better enough.

Over the course of five turns, we'd see 20 attacks, for 6 hits and 3 crits. If they're relatively evenly distributed, that's 1.2 hits and .6 crits per turn.
That's 1.2*1d8+.6*3d8=3d8 dice rolled on average each turn for damage.
We have...
33.01% chance of lowest value being a 1
24.8% chance of lowest value being a 2
17.77% chance of lowest value being a 3
11.91% chance of lowest value being a 4
12.5% chance of lowest value being 5+ and therefore best not to reroll

If lowest value is a 1, add 3.5 damage.
If lowest value is a 2, add 2.5 damage.
If lowest value is a 3, add 1.5 damage.
If lowest value is a 4, add .5 damage.

Total damage added is:
.3301*3.5+.248*2.5+.1777*1.5+.1191*.5=2.10145 damage per turn.

Across 6 rounds, we'd get 23 turns, for an additional 48.33335 damage. Total damage is now 616.

Literally just 60 HP shy. If we add Bracers of Archery, it adds 2 damage per hit or crit. Over 92 attacks, we'd expect to see 41.4 hits or crits, for 82.8 damage added.

So, revised build:

Bugbear Champion 20
Equipment: Longbow Of Warning with lots and lots of arrows, Bracers of Archery
Starting Stats: Dexterity of 17, everything else irrelevant
ASIs: Sharpshooter, Piercer (+1 Dexterity), Alert, +2 Dexterity, remaining three are irrelevant
Fighting Styles: Archery, remaining one is irrelevant

Amechra
2023-05-21, 05:00 PM
I mean...

Aarakocra Fighter 1/Rogue (Inquisitive) 19


Max out Dexterity and take Sharpshooter (because it's a broken feat) + Mobile (for the +10ft speed).
Fly 135ft above the Tarrasque.
Use Insightful Fighting to ensure that you get Sneak Attacks.
Fire your longbow at the Tarrasque once per turn. You have a 45% chance of hitting, and deal 1d8+13d6+5 damage when you hit.
The Tarrasque is slower than you are 60ft fly speed + Cunning Action keeps pace with it even if it dashes and moves as a legendary action), can't reach you (even with its fear aura! and while jumping!), and you can literally do this indefinitely.


You don't even need three other characters or magic items (other than a magic bow to pierce its immunity, I guess).

Eldariel
2023-05-21, 05:02 PM
So...Eldritch Spear Repelling Blast Warlocks could just keep pushing it further away than it can approach each round, I think?

JNAProductions
2023-05-21, 05:06 PM
I mean...

Aarakocra Fighter 1/Rogue (Inquisitive) 19


Max out Dexterity and take Sharpshooter (because it's a broken feat) + Mobile (for the +10ft speed).
Fly 135ft above the Tarrasque.
Use Insightful Fighting to ensure that you get Sneak Attacks.
Fire your longbow at the Tarrasque once per turn. You have a 45% chance of hitting, and deal 1d8+13d6+5 damage when you hit.
The Tarrasque is slower than you are 60ft fly speed + Cunning Action keeps pace with it even if it dashes and moves as a legendary action), can't reach you (even with its fear aura! and while jumping!), and you can literally do this indefinitely.


You don't even need three other characters or magic items (other than a magic bow to pierce its immunity, I guess).

I forgot about flying. Mea culpa on that.


So...Eldritch Spear Repelling Blast Warlocks could just keep pushing it further away than it can approach each round, I think?

Big T is immune to attack spells, if I recall correctly.

Dork_Forge
2023-05-21, 05:22 PM
I feel an archery-based Kensei with bracers of archery would do pretty decently, taking fighting initiate for the Archery style, Protector Aasimar for another 20 damage per attack, maybe dip into Fighter for Action Surge and some Superiority Dice to speed things along.



Big T is immune to attack spells, if I recall correctly.

Immune with a 1/6 chance to turn it back on the caster.

OldTrees1
2023-05-21, 05:33 PM
Bring only 2 heroes (nix 1 LA to reduce LA movement to 40')

The Tarrasque moves 80' (Dash), plus 40' from Legendary Actions for 120' total a round.

Turret: Small archer (insert archer able to deal damage to Spherical Tarrasque)
Engine: Medium Rogue 2 with the Mobile feat

The Engine carries the Turret 3x40ft=120ft per round and thus maintains distance.

If the adventurer's guild insists on sending 4, then make sure the Engines have a base speed of 50ft (Rogue 2 Monk 2 with Mobile feat)

Mastikator
2023-05-21, 06:01 PM
Any flying race + arcane archer (automagic magic arrows) with a longbow. No need for anything beyond starting gear and a boatload of arrows. Take sharpshooter to avoid the long range penalty and fly 600 feet above the hungry kaiju. Even if the DM lets the tarrasque pick up houses to throw at the player they usually don't have 600 range.

Horizon walker also works but they'd have to get dangerously close to activate planar warrior.

Skrum
2023-05-21, 06:04 PM
Hmm.

T is starting 320' away. I can't make a full build to get every calculation, but if our characters are something like druid 3 sorcerer 17 with distant spell, Alert, maxed Dex, Sentinel Shield, and whatever else to win initiative.

Use distant spell to cast spike growth covering the ground in a line between the party and T. At a 20' radius, 4 castings can cover 160'. T moves 140' per round, taking 56d4 or 140 damage.

Two of the characters then cast dimension door, each bringing 1 other character with them. Teleport 320' "forward," beyond T's starting location. T then switches direction and runs back, taking another 140 damage. Repeat 3 more times and T cheesegrates himself to death.

4 2nd level spells
8 4th level spells

This strategy could be used by characters as low as 10 (druid 3 sorc 7), though initiative might be harder to count on

JNAProductions
2023-05-21, 06:35 PM
Bring only 2 heroes (nix 1 LA to reduce LA movement to 40')


Turret: Small archer (insert archer able to deal damage to Spherical Tarrasque)
Engine: Medium Rogue 2 with the Mobile feat

The Engine carries the Turret 3x40ft=120ft per round and thus maintains distance.

If the adventurer's guild insists on sending 4, then make sure the Engines have a base speed of 50ft (Rogue 2 Monk 2 with Mobile feat)

I like this approach. Very cunning!


Hmm.

T is starting 320' away. I can't make a full build to get every calculation, but if our characters are something like druid 3 sorcerer 17 with distant spell, Alert, maxed Dex, Sentinel Shield, and whatever else to win initiative.

Use distant spell to cast spike growth covering the ground in a line between the party and T. At a 20' radius, 4 castings can cover 160'. T moves 140' per round, taking 56d4 or 140 damage.

Two of the characters then cast dimension door, each bringing 1 other character with them. Teleport 320' "forward," beyond T's starting location. T then switches direction and runs back, taking another 140 damage. Repeat 3 more times and T cheesegrates himself to death.

4 2nd level spells
8 4th level spells

This strategy could be used by characters as low as 10 (druid 3 sorc 7), though initiative might be harder to count on

This misses the stated goal of not using resources.

Damon_Tor
2023-05-21, 07:31 PM
1. A fighter/barbarian as described here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624030-The-Hextuple-Psychic-Piledriver-Or-how-to-wield-THE-PLANET-as-a-20d6-weapon&highlight=Suplex
2-4. Three other spellcasters, which must be able to cast haste and enlarge/reduce, preferably ones who are specialized in forcing enemies to fail saves. A squad of three divination wizards (who all wake up with several low divination dice) would be great here.

Begin by flying outside the range of the target and attempt to cast enlarge/reduce on it to shrink it to huge size. Eventually it will run out of legendary resistance and the spell will take. Then the next spellcaster will cast it on the fighter/barbarian to make him large, allowing him to grapple it.

Then perform the Hextuple Psychic Suplex procedure outlined in the post linked above, hitting the monster six times with the planet.

Finally, think of a cool name for the resulting crater.

Kane0
2023-05-21, 07:53 PM
Hard mode: no running away.

JNAProductions
2023-05-21, 08:45 PM
1. A fighter/barbarian as described here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624030-The-Hextuple-Psychic-Piledriver-Or-how-to-wield-THE-PLANET-as-a-20d6-weapon&highlight=Suplex
2-4. Three other spellcasters, which must be able to cast haste and enlarge/reduce, preferably ones who are specialized in forcing enemies to fail saves. A squad of three divination wizards (who all wake up with several low divination dice) would be great here.

Begin by flying outside the range of the target and attempt to cast enlarge/reduce on it to shrink it to huge size. Eventually it will run out of legendary resistance and the spell will take. Then the next spellcaster will cast it on the fighter/barbarian to make him large, allowing him to grapple it.

Then perform the Hextuple Psychic Suplex procedure outlined in the post linked above, hitting the monster six times with the planet.

Finally, think of a cool name for the resulting crater.

Again-no rest based resources should be used.

Damon_Tor
2023-05-21, 09:28 PM
The Goal
A four man party that can consistently kill a Tarrasque plopped at an arbitrary distance away (probably 600' because Longbow) before it reaches melee and without expending resources other than ammo. The less magic items used, the better.

Bugbear Champion 20
Equipment: Longbow Of Warning with lots and lots of arrows
Starting Stats: Dexterity of 17, everything else irrelevant
ASIs: Sharpshooter, Piercer (+1 Dexterity), Alert, +2 Dexterity, remaining three are irrelevant
Fighting Styles: Archery, remaining one is irrelevant

Combat
Each Champion rolls 2d20b1+10 for init, giving them a 96.44% chance of beating the Tarrasque in init.
Even if it rolls a nat 20, it's still a 79.75% chance of beating it (assuming higher mod wins ties).
If we assume at least three Champions beat the Tarrasque in initiative, the first twelve attacks add +2d6 each.

Each attack hits on a 12-17, for 1d8+5 damage.
Each attack crits on an 18+, for 3d8+5 damage.
Once per turn, a single damage die can be rerolled.
Over 20 attacks, you'd see 3 crits (9d8+15) and 6 hits (6d8+30), for a total of 15d8+45=112.5 damage, or 5.625 damage per attack on average, not accounting for the Piercer once per turn reroll.

Adding 2d6 damage on turn one increases that to 1d8+2d6+5 and 3d8+4d6+5 on hits and crits respectively.
Over 20 attacks (even though maximum number of attacks is 16 of these) you'd see 3 crits (9d8+12d6+15) and 6 hits (6d8+12d6+30), for a total of 15d8+24d6+45=196.5 damage, or 9.825 damage per attack on average (+4.2 damage). Again, not accounting for the Piercer reroll.

The Tarrasque moves 80' (Dash), plus 60' from Legendary Actions for 140' total a round. Champions move back 30' a round.
It will reach Frightful Presence range (which could screw it all over) in about five rounds, but won't be able to do it till round six. In that time, it will take 92-96 attacks. On the lower end (one Champion loses init) it will take 92 attacks, 12 of which have bonus damage, for 517.5+50.4=567.9 damage. Not quite Tarrasque killing enough, unless Piercer rerolls make it better enough.

Over the course of five turns, we'd see 20 attacks, for 6 hits and 3 crits. If they're relatively evenly distributed, that's 1.2 hits and .6 crits per turn.
That's 1.2*1d8+.6*3d8=3d8 dice rolled on average each turn for damage.
We have...
33.01% chance of lowest value being a 1
24.8% chance of lowest value being a 2
17.77% chance of lowest value being a 3
11.91% chance of lowest value being a 4
12.5% chance of lowest value being 5+ and therefore best not to reroll

If lowest value is a 1, add 3.5 damage.
If lowest value is a 2, add 2.5 damage.
If lowest value is a 3, add 1.5 damage.
If lowest value is a 4, add .5 damage.

Total damage added is:
.3301*3.5+.248*2.5+.1777*1.5+.1191*.5=2.10145 damage per turn.

Across 6 rounds, we'd get 23 turns, for an additional 48.33335 damage. Total damage is now 616.

Literally just 60 HP shy. If we add Bracers of Archery, it adds 2 damage per hit or crit. Over 92 attacks, we'd expect to see 41.4 hits or crits, for 82.8 damage added.

So, revised build:

Bugbear Champion 20
Equipment: Longbow Of Warning with lots and lots of arrows, Bracers of Archery
Starting Stats: Dexterity of 17, everything else irrelevant
ASIs: Sharpshooter, Piercer (+1 Dexterity), Alert, +2 Dexterity, remaining three are irrelevant
Fighting Styles: Archery, remaining one is irrelevant

I feel like this basic strategy would be served better with a multiclass. Swap champion for battlemaster and take fighter to 12. Get 4 levels of ranger for gloomstalker, then 4 levels of rogue for assassin.

The tarrasque has garbage initiative and perception, getting your first-turn autocrits should be fairly reliable. Your stealth check should auto-succeed, with your dex mod, proficiency and expertise easily beating his passion perception of 10 with any roll you attempt. You'll have dex 20 (+5) Gloomstalkers add wismod to initiative checks (+5) then you'll have alert (another +5) while your weapon of warning gives you advantage of the check. This is up against the tarrasques +0 initiative modifier, even if the tarrasque rolls a 20 on his check you'd still go first with a 5 on the best of two dice. And in a pinch you use your ambush maneuver to add 1d10 to the roll.

Gloomstalker makes up for the loss of fighter 20 multiattacks, and maneuvers, sneak attack and gloomstalker itself give you a bunch more dice to throw at this thing on turn 1, while the assassin's auto crits double all those dice every hit.

Amechra
2023-05-22, 01:43 AM
Thinking about this a bit more... "kill the Tarrasque starting from 600ft away without spending resources and before it reaches melee" basically bans... everything except the Fighter and the Rogue (and a handful of dips on a Fighter or Rogue chassis). Maybe the limit should be "no long rest resources"?

OldTrees1
2023-05-22, 01:52 AM
Thinking about this a bit more... "kill the Tarrasque starting from 600ft away without spending resources and before it reaches melee" basically bans... everything except the Fighter and the Rogue (and a handful of dips on a Fighter or Rogue chassis). Maybe the limit should be "no long rest resources"?

Turret: Class of Amechra's choice / Small Species with magic ranged weapon
Engine: Class of Amechra's choice / Aarakocra with Mobile

Engine has 60ft fly speed. As long as they dash, they can maintain distance* and keep the Turret at the correct range.
*Tarrasque can only move 120ft per round since there are only 2 PCs.

Mastikator
2023-05-22, 02:12 AM
Four moon druid can probably do it in melee by wildshaping every turn. It's a very long battle to out-damage the tarrasque's regeneration, but it's melee and no long or short rest resources are expended.

JNAProductions
2023-05-22, 02:33 AM
Thinking about this a bit more... "kill the Tarrasque starting from 600ft away without spending resources and before it reaches melee" basically bans... everything except the Fighter and the Rogue (and a handful of dips on a Fighter or Rogue chassis). Maybe the limit should be "no long rest resources"?

Yeah, it's narrow. I was just pondering it, and figured I'd look at the numbers. Still, I've seen some interesting stuff.


Four moon druid can probably do it in melee by wildshaping every turn. It's a very long battle to out-damage the tarrasque's regeneration, but it's melee and no long or short rest resources are expended.

Interesting. That seems like it could spike poorly for the Druids, but looking at the Tarrasque...

Its average damage against an Earth Elemental (assuming everything hits but no crits) is only 74. So you've got a pretty hefty margin, 52 HP, to regenerate past.
Given enough Tarrasques in a row, you'd eventually see one of them crit a couple times in a row or roll really well and start to dip into regular Druid HP, but obviously an archery build will eventually have some misses in a row and take damage as well.

I like this idea!

Mastikator
2023-05-22, 02:41 AM
Thing about earth elementals is that they take half damage from non-magical BPS and tarrasques do not deal magical damage funnily enough. Functionally the earth elemental has 252 HP, the tarrasque has to do that much damage in a single turn to kill the earth elemental and do any HP damage to the druid. For sure it will hit 95% of the time but it would have to crit like half the time.

Rukelnikov
2023-05-22, 05:50 AM
If we are assuming stuff like avg Init, can we assume avg stealth? With a Passive Perception of 10 its pretty easy to surprise it. Since it has 676 HP with 4 clones characters, each one needs to do 169 damage to down it.

Bugbear(MoM)
Champion 11 - Archery
Gloomstalker 3
Assassin 3
Artificer 2 - Repeating Shot (Heavy XB)
Genie 1

8
15+2
11
13
13+1
13

F4- Piercer [+1 Dex] Dex 18
F6- +2 Dex Dex 20
F8- SS (for the 400 ft. range)

Stealth = d20+17
Init = d20+10

FS: Archery
Infu: Repeating Shot (Heavy XB)

Stealth = d20+17
Init = d20+10

Damage = 1d10 Heavy Crossbow
+5 DEX

+[2d6] SA 1/turn (only in the first attack of the following turns, since its the only one we make with adv thanks to Steady Aim)
+6 Genie 1/turn

+2d6 BB 1st turn only

Surprise Round = 136.17 + piercer (3-4 damage)
Following = 36.61 + piercer (~2 damage)

So, if they all beat it in Initiative, the Tarrasque would be dead before its second turn. If Blessing of the Forge to get a +1 Crossbow is not considered expending resources, then instead of Art 2, we could go Forge 1 and a 16 initial Wis, taking Alert with the extra level, for a +6 to init.

Skrum
2023-05-22, 10:05 AM
Four moon druid can probably do it in melee by wildshaping every turn. It's a very long battle to out-damage the tarrasque's regeneration, but it's melee and no long or short rest resources are expended.

Hilariously, the 5e Tarrasque has no regeneration. It is the simplest and most straightforward melee bruiser possible, and unlike previous editions, just dies like any other creature when it reaches 0.

Rukelnikov
2023-05-22, 10:20 AM
Hilariously, the 5e Tarrasque has no regeneration. It is the simplest and most straightforward melee bruiser possible, and unlike previous editions, just dies like any other creature when it reaches 0.

I reread the statblock 3 times when thinking the build, because I couldn't believe it had no regen.

Damon_Tor
2023-05-22, 11:01 AM
If we are assuming stuff like avg Init, can we assume avg stealth? With a Passive Perception of 10 its pretty easy to surprise it. Since it has 676 HP with 4 clones characters, each one needs to do 169 damage to down it.

Bugbear(MoM)
Champion 11 - Archery
Gloomstalker 3
Assassin 3
Artificer 2 - Repeating Shot (Heavy XB)
Genie 1

8
15+2
11
13
13+1
13

F4- Piercer [+1 Dex] Dex 18
F6- +2 Dex Dex 20
F8- SS (for the 400 ft. range)

Stealth = d20+17
Init = d20+10

FS: Archery
Infu: Repeating Shot (Heavy XB)

Stealth = d20+17
Init = d20+10

Damage = 1d10 Heavy Crossbow
+5 DEX

+[2d6] SA 1/turn (only in the first attack of the following turns, since its the only one we make with adv thanks to Steady Aim)
+6 Genie 1/turn

+2d6 BB 1st turn only

Surprise Round = 136.17 + piercer (3-4 damage)
Following = 36.61 + piercer (~2 damage)

So, if they all beat it in Initiative, the Tarrasque would be dead before its second turn. If Blessing of the Forge to get a +1 Crossbow is not considered expending resources, then instead of Art 2, we could go Forge 1 and a 16 initial Wis, taking Alert with the extra level, for a +6 to init.

Very close to the build I posted above, but I like the inclusion of a built-in magic weapon to the build. You give up 3 ASI to get it though, which reduces your odds of winning initiative by not allowing you to max wis.

Rukelnikov
2023-05-22, 11:54 AM
Very close to the build I posted above, but I like the inclusion of a built-in magic weapon to the build. You give up 3 ASI to get it though, which reduces your odds of winning initiative by not allowing you to max wis.

Yeah, I tried a few combinations, but while Kensei, Bladelock, AA and EK can be used to overcome non-magical immunity, artificer also allows you to bypass the nedd of Crossbow Expert by removing the loading property from heavy crossbows, and with auto crits and piercer, that d10 more than compensates not having the BA attack. The other options though, have to go with the Longbow or get XBE, and that d10 to d8 is almost 10 points of damage during surprise. Now that I mention this, the thing about going Forge in order to get Alert doesn't work, since they lose too much damage. I'll see if I can come up with a better variation of this.

Chronos
2023-05-22, 04:48 PM
Conjuration Wizard 2. Use Phantom Steed to maintain range (ritually re-cast as necessary), and keep on Minor Conjuration-ing longbow arrows. The fight will literally take all day, due to only hitting on a natural 20 and only doing longbow damage when you do, and only attacking once every other round (the other rounds you use your action on conjuring your arrows), but without regeneration or a way to move faster than the Steed, big T never gets a chance to do anything to you, and will eventually go down.

Alternately, since you are allowing expenditure of ammunition, a Commoner 1 with a magic bow and a normal horse (and a whole huge pile of arrows) will also do the trick.