[HtHaD MP] Council Halls of Thîkutgim (Booktwists)

[Lacco]

Welcome to the Council Halls of Thîkutgim (Booktwists)!

This thread will serve for OOC discussion and keeping game status up to date.

Please, post your votes in the IC thread when applicable.

Thîkutgim has been established on dry plains - a wasteland with a very small amount of life, between the forests near Ushuletur Mountain and Plateau Ilromkugik Vesh. Our prospectors were sure there are gem deposits - multiple - scattered around the area. We were warmed to be careful if we decide to dig west.

Current Year: 5

Kingdom Status:
Guild of Minor Merchant (Artisan)
The Ironfist Deepguard (Warrior)
The Heldkammer Brethren (Worker)
Drakkenpeaks Clan (Worker)
The Mälsteri Klan (Worker)
The Risen Demons (Warrior)
Unnamed Clan (Workers)

Treasure: three piles of rubies.

Upkeep: 2 foodstuff needed

Five dormitories (full)
A gate (manned by Ironfist Deepguard and Risen Demons).
Four plots of a farm.
Two vaults:
- 3 piles of rubies
- 1 foodstuff

A Ruby (Gem) mine. It is size 1 and contains remaining 2 piles of rubies.

https://i.ibb.co/JQjBBv6/20230710-184716.jpg



Year 4: https://i.ibb.co/Pxp7qyr/20230623-145027.jpg

Year 3: https://i.ibb.co/19G0qw5/20230617-162619.jpg

Year 2: https://i.ibb.co/4YvWFYx/20230604-193239.jpg

Year 1: https://i.ibb.co/nM5ZH8k/20230527-115802.jpg


List of Councildwarves:


Player
Clan
Symbol
Councildwarf


Articl8
The Heldkammer Brethren (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25790518&postcount=13)
A Hammer and Chisel Forming an A Shape within a Stone Chamber.
Harmond Stonebraid


JbeJ275
The Ironfist Deepguard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25789725&postcount=5)
A Shield with an Arched and Barred Gate on it
Elmador Oldorsson


Kinro
Guild of Minor Merchant (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25786044&postcount=2)
A Coin over Shaking Hands (circle over an inverted chevron)
Djerard


Togo
Drakkenpeaks Clan (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25800460&postcount=53)
Hammerpick (a stylised tool with a hammer on one side and a pick on the other)
Zalin Broadbeard


DasIrrlicht
The Mälsteri Klan (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25801398&postcount=57)
XXX (triple crossed chisels?)
Mikka Kova


bramblefoot
The Risen Demons (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25801639&postcount=60)
Sword and Axe Crossed
thane Grunni the Mad






















So, overall, the game (for dwarves) should run something like this:
1. "Yearly Report":
~ Lacco will provide an overview of the kingdom and the status (resources, update map)
~ Claimed resources will be moved into vaults or processed
~ New clans will migrate in (if space is available)

2. Council Meeting!
~ the meat of the game
~ each council member (player) may declare an action he wishes the clans (each of them) to be performed; you can be as detailed as you wish
~ basic available actions are:
- dispatch an expedition (exploration party to dig & prospect, raiding party, warband, trade caravan or ambassador),
- change clan specialisation (costs 1 treasure; workers = dig & farm, artisans = build & craft, warriors = fight)
- distinguish Paragons & assign clans (paragons are leaders that lead the specific clan, they can be used as warband commanders and ambassadors)
- assign/move resources/clans (exploit a resource, assist in a project, assign a workshop, etc.)
- expand (build Dormitories - for 'storing' clans - and Vaults - for storing resources)
- start a project (3 projects may be built at one time, they require resources, work and are time-consuming; examples of projects are great halls, secret vaults, fortifications...)
~ discussion over actions may be performed (usually in character); each council member can defend their choice and try to gain supporters (even 'NPC' - anyone who ventures into the thread - are welcome).

3. Voting!
~ with time passing, Lacco will provide a list of topics to vote on (e.g. if there are no things to vote on because everybody agrees, we'll waste no time)
~ each supporting vote is counted
~ ties are decided by Paragon votes (if available) and/or GM (GM has 0.5 votes for these purposes)
~ winner sways discussion and determines the action; they may provide a concession if they decide (a compromise), but without further discussion
~ if the action is not supported by some council members, their clans may take a point of Dissent.

Dissent is a mechanic that allows the players to go against the wishes of the council:

4. End of Turn: GRUDGEtime!
Grudge roll is a 1d10-3 against DC 10. Anyone can spend Dissent points to increase the value of the roll. If the roll fails, the half the Dissent points used are spent (round down) but nothing happens. If the roll succeeds, the Councildorfs who spent points may decide to violently revolt (remove as many dwarven clans as Dissent points spent) to cleanse all the Dissent, break off (creating their own kingdom, with blackjack!... sorry..., every 2 points of Dissent spent give them 1 Clan that leaves with them), take up a grudge (next round, lose as many Dissent points as you wish, but as many clans refuse to work; your choice).
If there are more than 10 Dissent points spent during round, there is an open revolution... and that's the next game phase.

So, what do you think?

Details about actions will be provided (most rolls will be a d6 rolls with modifiers)





Projects require work (at least a single worker or artisan clan needs to be assigned during the whole project; certain projects may require specific type of worker), time (can be shortened by assigning more clans to work on it) and some may require resources.
Resources are marked as (X), treasure as (T) while workers as (W).



Dormitory: size 1, allows migration of new clans if empty, costs 1(W).

Vault: size 1, holds 3 resource tokens of one type, costs 1(W)

Mine: size ?x?, you mine out a resource and put it into vaults, costs ?x? (W)

Farm: size ?x1, you either claim a renewable resource or you create a farm, costs ?x1 (W), requires 1 (W) per 2 points of size to take care of the farm. Farms can provide 1 foodstuff or renewable resource per 1 point of size normally (without no upper
limit) or can be depleted to provide more resources (determined randomly).

Gate: size 1x2, works as fortification, troops stationed here require food resource, houses up to 2 Warrior clans. Costs 1(W) + 1 other resource (any)

Barracks: size 2x1, allows training of troops, houses up to 2 Warrior clans. Troops stationed require food resource. Decreases dissent in warrior caste by 1. Costs 2(W) + 1 other resource

Drinking Hall: size 2x1, costs 1 (W) + 2 other resources, Decreases dissent by 1. Allows migration roll (1d6).

Granary: ?x?, must be higher than wider, costs 2+?x? (W), Allows storing of non-consumed farmed foodstuff. Food may be given out to calm down dissent (2 foods remove 1 point of dissent).

Workshops: size 2x2, cost 4 (W) + 1 other resource. Allow artisan class clans to create crafts and artifacts.

Tombs: size 1x1, cost 1 (W) + 3 other resources. Must be built after any lost skirmish. Allows a migration roll (1d6). A single treasure must be used during its building.

Throne Room: size 2x1, cost 2 (W) + 3 other resources. At least one treasure must be used during its building. Allows migration roll (1d6). Removes 1 Dissent. Grudge rolls get a -1 modifier. Houses up to 2 clans until dormitories are built. Can be built only once.

Plaza: size 3x1, cost 2 (W) + 2 other resources. Generates 1 (T) immediately after being built. Removes 1 Dissent from all present worker clans. Grudge roll at -1. Allows migration roll (2d6). Houses up to 4 clans until dormitories are built.


City: size 5x2, cost 5 (W) + 2 (X) + 3 other resources. Houses 10 dwarf clans. Generates 1 (X) as trade per round. Allows migration roll (2d6).


More projects will become available.

Size 1 can be judged according to the Dormitories.




Step 1: Name your clan.
Step 2: Choose their symbol (ideally a simple one - two crossed axes, a helmet, beard, arm) - something that can be drawn as a dwarven symbol. You’ll get an elaborate version later, for your perusal, if the game picks up, but it should be something that's relatively easy to draw for me).
Step 3: Name your CouncilDorf!

Step 4: Choose their origins (+1 means 'roll additional die and take highest result):

Hill Dorfs
Standard dorf variant. Long beards, like gold, beer and singing.
Start with 1 Worker Clan; belongs to Workers Caste
Leader Traits: Traditionalist (+1 die when fighting goblinoids), Nose for Minerals (their resource discovery rolls have additional +1 range when it comes to sources of ores or gems)

Lone Mountain Dorfs
Loners, separatists. Throw the craziest parties.
Start with 1 Worker Clan; belongs to Workers Caste
Leader Traits: Beer-wise (As soon as there is a free Dormitory at the End of the Round, you may change it to Drinking Hall once per clan for free); Loners (+1 die to all rolls when facing overwhelming odds).

Draketooth Chain Dorfs
Savage warriors out of the north.
Start with 1 Trained Warrior Clan; belongs to Warriors Caste; this Warrior clan can reside inside Dormitory and will act as Worker Clan until first Barracks are built. You may take Dissent if other buildings are built first.
Leader Traits: Survivors (may reroll any death roll once per game per clan), Feared (+1 die to diplomatic actions that include threatening the others)

City Dorfs
Used to be around other races, know a lot of the world. More social than others.
Start with 1 Artisan Clan; belongs to Artisan Caste
Leader Traits: Cosmopolitan (may trade or make treaties with all races and even non-mindless monsters), Socialites (+1 die to any trade actions and treaties with other races)

Deep Dorfs
Never seen sunlight, never seen a different race they did not wish to kill. So far.
Start with 1 Trained Warrior Clan; belongs to Warriors Caste; this Warrior clan can reside inside Dormitory and will act as Worker Clan until first Barracks are built. You may take Dissent if other buildings are built first.
Leader Traits: Xenophobic (+1 die to resisting any trades and treaties), Battle-scarred (+1 die to fights in depth - in lower half of the map)

The first clan to emerge will decide how the starting area looks...


LINKS:
Recruiting (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?655487-Recruiting-How-to-Host-a-Dungeon-multiplayer)
Voting & IC (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656713-HtHaD-MP-Council-Halls-of-Th%EEkutgim-(Booktwists)-IC&p=25788836#post25788836)

Rules document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLlgP6dbq-dDaI2HP24htgMTcDsCnjPS5IyxqDfQ_ws/edit?usp=sharing)

[Kinro]

"We did not come all the way out here looking for safety!" Proclaimed Djerard of the Guild of Minor Merchant, fist slamming on the rickety table. This was a far cry from the grand halls he was used to, even though he knew his guild was, understandably, not one of the richest. That and being aboveground for so long made his skin itch "If you all wanted to dig safely and have read-made spaces, you should have stayed back home! I speak for my guild and I say we dig for gems. Surely our ancestors would spit on us if we were to waste an opportunity like this."


Clan: Guild of Minor Merchants
Symbol: A coin over shaking hands (often symbolized as a circle over an inverted chevron)
Name: Djerard
Origins: City Dorfs

[Lacco]

Welcome to the actual OOC and the game!

Currently, with only single councildorf, this may turn into a dictatorship - but the recruiting is still open.

Your current task is to think about the actions to be performed and state your choices (no voting yet).
There are three clans (Guild of Minor Merchant lead by Djerard and two that are not yet assigned worker clans). Each of those can get an order during each round to perform.

Do you want to:
- dispatch an expedition (exploration party to dig & prospect, raiding party, warband, trade caravan or ambassador),
- change clan specialisation (costs 1 treasure; workers can dig, prospect, build & farm, artisans can build & craft, warriors can fight; workers and artisans require no upkeep, but warriors require foodstuff - 1 foodstuff per 2 warrior clans per round)
- distinguish Paragons & assign clans (paragons are leaders that lead the specific clan, they can be used as warband commanders and ambassadors)
- assign/move resources/clans (exploit a resource, assist in a project, assign a workshop, etc.)
- expand (build Dormitories - for 'storing' clans - and Vaults - for storing resources)
- start a project (3 projects may be built at one time, they require resources, work and are time-consuming; examples of projects are great halls, secret vaults, fortifications...)
- support another councildwarf (also known as 'AFK')

There should be a discussion over actions may be performed (usually in character, but comments, strategy and questions can be also posted into OOC); each council member can defend their choice and try to gain supporters (even 'NPC' - anyone who ventures into the thread - are welcome).

Bear in mind:
- if there are no empty Dormitories, there will be no new clans arriving
- if there are no vaults, there is nowhere to store the gems that will be mined
- no more than 3 projects (Dormitories and Vaults do not count as projects) can be in construction at the same time
- you can't find resources without exploration expedition

Projects require work (at least a single worker or artisan clan needs to be assigned during the whole project; certain projects may require specific type of worker), time (can be shortened by assigning more clans to work on it) and some may require resources.
Resources are marked as (X), treasure as (T) while workers as (W).
Resource (any) means that either a resource is used, or additional work effort (1W) is expended.


Dormitory: size 1, allows migration of new clans if empty, costs 1(W).
Vault: size 1, holds 3 resource tokens of one type, costs 1(W)
Mine: size ?x?, you mine out a resource and put it into vaults, costs ?x? (W)
Farm: size ?x1, you either claim a renewable resource or you create a farm, costs ?x1 (W), requires 1 (W) per 2 points of size to take care of the farm. Farms can provide 1 foodstuff or renewable resource per 1 point of size normally (without no upper limit) or can be depleted to provide more resources (determined randomly).
Gate: size 1x2, works as fortification, troops stationed here require food resource, houses up to 2 Warrior clans. Costs 1(W) + 1 other resource (any)
Barracks: size 2x1, allows training of troops, houses up to 2 Warrior clans. Troops stationed require food resource. Decreases dissent in warrior caste by 1. Costs 2(W) + 1 other resource (any)
Drinking Hall: size 2x1, costs 1 (W) + 2 other resources, Decreases dissent by 1. Allows migration roll (1d6).
Granary: ?x?, must be higher than wider, costs 2+?x? (W), Allows storing of non-consumed farmed foodstuff. Food may be given out to calm down dissent (2 foods remove 1 point of dissent).
Workshops: size 2x2, cost 4 (W) + 1 other resource. Allow artisan class clans to create crafts and artifacts.

More projects will become available.


So, councildorf! State your ideas (IC) or ask questions (OOC) if you want!

EDIT: the graphical side will get better, but my kid's sick so I had to cut some corners to get it online fast.

[Kinro]

Good. It seemed that Djerard's voice stood above that of any other's. It meant a small expedition, of course. Charismatic leaders tended to attract people. But it also meant that the force could more easily be directed to his will. At his request, the circular table had been replaced with a high bench, from which he would rule, until and unless powerful voices rose to challenge him. "Good. We have arrived and we have found ourselves places to live. But it is not enough to merely survive. We must strive! We must enrich ourselves! For that, we need more, hardy dwarves, but we also need to seek out our riches. Already, we know of a store of gems nearby. My own clan will dig to reach them. Meanwhile, the other two, I think, should build us a vault, a place to store them, as well as another dormitory, so that we might welcome any who would come to bolster our numbers." It certainly seemed a sensible way to proceed for now. They were still so few, after all.

[JbeJ275]

Sorry I just got to this. Been a frantic time:

Clan: The Ironfist Deepguard
Symbol: A shield with an arched and barred gate on it.
Name: Elmador Oldorsson
Origins: Draketooth Chain Dorfs

[Kinro]

Yay! Welcome! Feel free to voice in for the next decision!

[Lacco]

Welcome, Elmador son of Oldors!

Bear in mind, that Warrior clans usually take up residence in fortifications (Gate, Fort, Citadel) or in Barracks. Since this is just a new frontier, the clan will accept living in a Dormitory for this moment, but if the council does not build barracks within first round, you MAY take a point of Dissent.

Warrior clans act like workers until they are stationed in Barracks (or gate/fort/citadel). When they turn full warrior, they require either support from one worker/artisan clan, or foodstuffs (farm).

So, what do you think about the first suggested plan? Mine the rubies, build a vault and a dormitory...

[JbeJ275]

The Deepguard make clear that as things stand this kingdom is immensely vulnerable to any sort of attack, we don't have enough food to force a siege, and it's no use amassing rubies if it just means any willing warlord has a reason to demand them from us. We should build a farm and a gate before we mine and make a vault, though a dormitory is sensible.

[Kinro]

"I know your warriors well," Djerard said. "The moment a barracks is built, they will stop building or digging and begin only to train. And then, they will ask for food and care from the only worker clan we have. And my artisans... their hands are too delicate for the hard labour of digging. But I will tell you this: the moment we have a second worker clan, then we will make farms and barracks for your warriors. Will you agree to this much, Elmador Oldorsson?"

[JbeJ275]

Elmador looks the well groomed and poorly built Djerard up and down, before speaking. "My warriors will like it little, and if foes lurk there out in the world and are ready before such things can be built, you'll not hide from the ancestors that it was your choice that led to it. But very well, warriors are little use without blades or armour. We must ensure the warriors are supported before they can stand truly ready anyhow. The men won't much like it though."

[Kinro]

Djerard certainly could feel the air of disdain coming from Elmador. I get your meaning and give you this as well: we shall endeavour to build a vault a two dormitories, maybe to attract workers faster. And once they come, I promise to personaly see to it that my clan's artisans build you superb barracks. Would this satisfy you for now, Elmador?"

[JbeJ275]

Hmm... a strong gate with rooms for the garrison would be preferred to a simple barracks. We won't need that until there are dwarves other than my boys ready to take up arms. That said, if you'll apply your artisans to our bulwark I'll take those terms.

[Articl8]

Clan: The Heldkammer Brethren
Symbol: A Hammer and chisel forming an A shape within a stone chamber (usually depicted as a square box or surround).
Councildorf name: Harmond Stonebraid
Origin: Hill dwarf

A broad figure, stocky even for a dwarf, marches in single-handedly carrying the round council table in two mighty calloused hands. Setting it down, none too gently, he scowls at the others across it, eyes of faintly smouldering amber surrounded by hair and beard of deep chestnut, braided with many stone beads. “So, your artisans will eat dirt and your warriors will defend this hole in the ground by throwing exquisitely cut gems at your enemies. Oh dear, you forgot to bring someone who knows how to build farms, and workshops, and fortifications, did you?” His rough face cracks in a fierce grin, and one meaty hand slaps down on the tabletop. “Well, my lads, Harmond Stonebraid and his Brethren are here to see to that! Shall we get down to work?”

[Articl8]

OOC: I assume that I’m adding a new worker clan rather than fleshing out the one already present, is that right?
Also, we seem to be doing RP in this OOC thread; so is the IC thread just for voting?

[Kinro]

(I... honestly didn't realize there was another thread. Sorry.)

[Kinro]

"Well met, Stonebraid, and you're right, of course, artisans and warriors would fare poorly without the worker's backings. We are planning now to build dormitories and a vault, so that me might begin to grow. And what is your feeling about this?"

[Lacco]

Hail and welcome, master Stonebraid!

Three councildwarves! A good start!


OOC: I assume that I’m adding a new worker clan rather than fleshing out the one already present, is that right?
Also, we seem to be doing RP in this OOC thread; so is the IC thread just for voting?

Quite the opposite: your clan is the third unclaimed one. Which is now claimed.

If we get new players, their council dwarves will be able to join immediately, but their clans will migrate in in the beginning of a new year (if there are dormitories present). So all three beginning clans are now claimed.

Also: you can change the specialization of your clan, or even unclaimed ones later using a council action (it costs resources, and makes the clan unavailable for work, an in case of Warrior caste, they require at least barracks). So it's not completely fixed.

And yes, the IC thread is just for voting, because I'd like to have a clean voting thread. You can add IC statements there when voting, but overall, just RP in this thread. I was thinking of using the Dice Roller thread for votes, because it has 'no editing' policy, but decided on IC for the moment.


(I... honestly didn't realize there was another thread. Sorry.)

No worries. That one's for voting only.


"Well met, Stonebraid, and you're right, of course, artisans and warriors would fare poorly without the worker's backings. We are planning now to build dormitories and a vault, so that me might begin to grow. And what is your feeling about this?"

RE: Farms.

Workers and Artisans manage their own upkeep. Warriors, on the other hand, require foodstuffs or a dedicated worker clan that takes care of their food (after they take up arms, so for now they are Workers). So it's easier to build a farm to manage the rations.

Expeditions require foodstuff too. So if you plan on exploring, raiding, trading or waging war, you need food for the folks.

A simple 1x1 farm provides 1 foodstuff. One worker clan can manage size 2 farm.

Exploration expedition basically makes a set of tunnels in one direction about the size of 5 per worker clan sent. If warriors accompany them, they explore one further (because they don't have to scout/guard, the warriors do so) and if artisans, they get +2 (artisans are able to tunnel, but workers are just better at it; the difference between a miner and a stonecarver).

Once they hit something dangerous, we stop the expedition to deal with it and either run back or continue (decision either of the paragon who leads the expedition, or of the council).

They will also prospect. Some clans are better at this (looking at you, hill dwarves!).

Also, I'll need to know where do you want to put the dormitories/vaults.



RE: voting.

If you all agree upon something, we can even pass the voting, because that works when there is a disagreement. I will always prepare a breakdown and then you vote on the topic.

Agreed actions:
Build a dormitory

Disagreements
Vote 1:
A) Mine and Vault,
B) Gate and Farm?

The voting topics would be always numbered, so you can give a final IC statement if you want, but then mark 1A or 1B.

Afterwards, if someone is unhappy with the result, they can always claim Dissent point (in OOC), and mark them in your 'character sheet'.

[Articl8]

A simple 1x1 farm provides 1 foodstuff. One worker clan can manage size 2 farm.

Does that mean that, once built, a farm needs the continuous staffing of a worker clan to operate it? Meaning that they can’t do anything else so long as it functions?



Afterwards, if someone is unhappy with the result, they can always claim Dissent point (in OOC), and mark them in your 'character sheet'.

Also, we need a character sheet? A single post in this thread, is that?

[Lacco]

Does that mean that, once built, a farm needs the continuous staffing of a worker clan to operate it?

Yup. You can also 'overtax' the farm (getting more foodstuff at one moment but depleting it partially; you can do it usually several times but it's randomly determined by the GM, so...), but to store the food you either use a vault or a granary. Granaries are better for that.

But yes. A tax needs staffing.


Also, we need a character sheet? A single post in this thread, is that?

The first post here with your clan name & councildorf is fine for that.

[Articl8]

“A dormitory, aye, and a farm too, to raise food for activities beyond the basic,” rumbled Stonebraid, not wholly approving. “But why not a granary, to store food until it’s needed, lest it spoil in the meantime? Then a gate as soon afterward as may be, ere we mine out a hoard to give anyone reason to attack us?”

[Kinro]

Djerard thought for a moment. "An option, certainly, to build a farm, a barracks and a granary now, then your workers would be able to store enough in one year to assist us in the next. Though I have to admit that my artisans are chopping as the bit, so it were, to make use of the precious gems we've found already to show their skills, this would be enough to pacify Elmador's warriors, I would hope, and the freed dormitory may still attract another, less... needful clan."

[Articl8]

OOC: So a barracks would free up a dormitory but a gate wouldn’t? If so, this sounds like a good balanced choice. If not, would a gate not provide more security?

[Kinro]

(A barracks would free up a dormitory, I think, but the warriors stop working and now need half a worker to be fed, so we move from being able to do 3 things a turn to 1.5. A gate is better, but requires a resource to build and we have none.

Separately, does food count as a resource? I've been assuming not.
)

[Lacco]

OOC: So a barracks would free up a dormitory but a gate wouldn’t? If so, this sounds like a good balanced choice. If not, would a gate not provide more security?

Both barracks and gate would free up a dormitory. Both barracks and gate provide lodging for the warriors and in both cases you need to provide the foodstuff or support. The main difference is, that a gate works as fortification, while barracks allow you to train new trained warriors (= convert clans to warrior clans).

So, gate = more security from the side you put it on. Barracks = potential to train more warriors.


(A barracks would free up a dormitory, I think, but the warriors stop working and now need half a worker to be fed, so we move from being able to do 3 things a turn to 1.5. A gate is better, but requires a resource to build and we have none.

Separately, does food count as a resource? I've been assuming not.)

Yup, once the warriors have barracks OR gate or any kind of fortification (e.g. fort/citadel), they stop working as workers and require that you feed them. If there is not enough support, they will get dissent and will not accept orders (because they will have to support themselves).

On the other hand, once you get into danger (which you might very soon based on the location), warrior clans will be indispendable.

So: can you get into agreement?
Or shall we place the ideas and make a vote?

One last thing to bear in mind: the GM has a 0.5 vote (to overcome stalemates). I can not override anyone, but if it's too close, I'll vote (either randomly, or in line with the mood of dwarfdom as I perceive it).

EDIT: Foodstuff is considered a type of resource (it can be crafted into more complex foodstuff, it can be traded and will be used during expeditions and for support of units) but can not be used as resource for building. In that case, you either use things like ore (e.g. metal for a gate), rare stone (dormitories) or something similar, or you replace it by dwarven work.

I hope that makes sense (spent too much time at work today, brain is mush, need rest). If there are any more questions, I'll gladly answer. Also, thank you for your input & patience so far.

[Kinro]

(Makes sense to me, except you said that you said rare stone would be used as resource for dormitories and dormitories are marked as not requiring a resource to build?)

[Articl8]

So, once we build a farm (and use it), we lose a worker clan; once we build a barracks (since a gate is currently unaffordable), we effectively lose a second.
Then in the first year, we could build a dormitory, farm and granary; in the second, a barracks and a vault; in the third, the artisans could set to mining; and meanwhile we await new workers.
Plan?

[Articl8]

OOC: Tempted to suggest collecting the Rules in a dedicated thread instead of Spoilers scattered throughout the OOC, which seems likely to grow quite quickly!
(When brain is restored, of course!)

[Kinro]

(With a 1X2 farm and a granary, we could support one warrior clan by having the worker work the farm one turn out of two, but yes.

I'm ok with dormitory, farm and granary then barracks, vault and mine. Djerrard will be, too.

If you open Basic Projects in the opening post, a lot of the information is there. (Other than information about the expeditions.) Information about the warrior caste acting as workers is specified in the description of the clans.)

[Lacco]

(Makes sense to me, except you said that you said rare stone would be used as resource for dormitories and dormitories are marked as not requiring a resource to build?)

And you are absolutely correct. Should have gone with a Drinking Hall.

Overall, this resource issue is something the original rules solved by having only workers and treasure. In my case, the reasoning is: there are different resources, if it makes sense, these can be used (can't build a drinking hall using foodstuff, but steel, copper or even hardwood could work).


So, once we build a farm (and use it), we lose a worker clan; once we build a barracks (since a gate is currently unaffordable), we effectively lose a second.
Then in the first year, we could build a dormitory, farm and granary; in the second, a barracks and a vault; in the third, the artisans could set to mining; and meanwhile we await new workers.
Plan?

Re: gate - you can assign 1 clan to work on the gate for 2 rounds. You need to assign at least one worker, but they may continue toiling for several rounds. Or you can speed up the process.


OOC: Tempted to suggest collecting the Rules in a dedicated thread instead of Spoilers scattered throughout the OOC, which seems likely to grow quite quickly!
(When brain is restored, of course!)

Here is the google doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLlgP6dbq-dDaI2HP24htgMTcDsCnjPS5IyxqDfQ_ws/edit?usp=sharing) with most of the rules. I just suck at editing and updating (and most of the stuff is just handwritten down in my notebooks).

If you feel like it, jump in. You can even assist with the editing. Just a word of warning: it's a mess. Also: I'm all for you folks pitching ideas for more stuff to be added.

Please, if you find some inconsistencies, please comment and we can fix that.


(With a 1X2 farm and a granary, we could support one warrior clan by having the worker work the farm one turn out of two, but yes.

I'm ok with dormitory, farm and granary then barracks, vault and mine. Djerrard will be, too.

If you open Basic Projects in the opening post, a lot of the information is there. (Other than information about the expeditions.) Information about the warrior caste acting as workers is specified in the description of the clans.)

Okay. So, the current agreement is:

1 clan builds a dormitory
1 clan builds a 1x1 farm
1 clan starts building a granary (smallest is 2x1 as it needs to be higher than wider, and it costs 2+(2x1) = 4 (W).

Afterwards, barracks, vault and mine.

Did I get that right?

[Kinro]

Doesn't a gate also take a resource? Or can workers replace resources?

Ah, ok, I see with the costs. Hmm. And I see now that a barracks also requires a resource and we still don't have any of those. (Note. How was anyone supposed to build a barracks on the first turn if it takes a resource to build one? Seems like there's no way to avoid that dissent.)

I'm guessing gems wouldn't count as that resource?

So now I'm thinking that the best thing to start would be to make a 2 wide farm and a vault for the food, which could be repurposed later, then send an expedition as fast as we can to get access to some resources to build barracks and stuff. And work on mining the gems while we're waiting for that?

[Lacco]

Doesn't a gate also take a resource? Or can workers replace resources?

Ah, ok, I see with the costs. Hmm. And I see now that a barracks also requires a resource and we still don't have any of those. (Note. How was anyone supposed to build a barracks on the first turn if it takes a resource to build one? Seems like there's no way to avoid that dissent.)

I'm guessing gems wouldn't count as that resource?

So now I'm thinking that the best thing to start would be to make a 2 wide farm and a vault for the food, which could be repurposed later, then send an expedition as fast as we can to get access to some resources to build barracks and stuff. And work on mining the gems while we're waiting for that?

Description updated a bit.

The "+ x additional resources (any)" means the players have to decide whether to spend additional Work (W) or Resources (either (X) or (T) of an appropriate type - it should make sense why it's expended). So it's possible to build barracks even on first round.

As for dissent: the leader may take a point of dissent. It's a voluntary action - so you can avoid it easily by just not taking it. But it's a bargaining chip of a sorts. The biggest danger is spending too much Dissent during one round (which requires 10 points spent) - which leads to a bloody revolt and ends the current expedition. On the other hand, amassing so much dissent takes a lot of time.

Gems usually go to the 'treasure' pile. Does not mean you can't spend them, but they are better for trading. And some later projects will require treasure (what is a throne room without a majestic throne, after all?).

Question: are there any more questions regarding resources? Or are we clear?

[Kinro]

Only one. Do we need a vault to mine gems?

In any case, for now, my current proposal:

Turn 1: build size 2 farm and vault for food
Turn 2: farm and build barracks
Turn 3: build gems mine and maybe vault for gems

This should get us in a position where we're mining for gems, have warriors and room for more warriors and workers and have multiple options expansion.

[JbeJ275]

I think a gate takes priority above a barracks but am otherwise in agreement.

[Kinro]

I'm ok with gate.

[Articl8]

Acceptable; I also favour a Gate if we can build one. Would prefer a granary for food storage, but I suppose we can live with using a vault for a time.

[Kinro]

(It would take at least 4 worker units to build a granary. Definitely good to have, but also something we can push back for later.
I've updated current plan in the voting forum.)

"Then we are agreed," Djerard said, relieved, once all was done. It had been a long negotiation, but they had pulled through. I'll accept delay plans on a mine until we have a gate and farm established. And once be have a basic settlement complete, then we can discuss further plans." Doubtlessly, it would again be arduous negoriations, but no one said building a new settlement would be easy.

[Lacco]

Only one. Do we need a vault to mine gems?

In any case, for now, my current proposal:

Turn 1: build size 2 farm and vault for food
Turn 2: farm and build barracks
Turn 3: build gems mine and maybe vault for gems

This should get us in a position where we're mining for gems, have warriors and room for more warriors and workers and have multiple options expansion.

Answer: yes and no.

You can build a mine and mine the gems. However, to 'claim' them, you need a vault. Claim = to be able to use them in any way. Until a vault is built, they stay in the mine.

Claiming of resources happens in the beginning of the round (it's part of the first phase - yearly report - "claimed resources will be moved into vaults or processed"). So unless you have a vault, the gems stay where they are and can not be processed - once you build a vault, they will be moved into them.

So, you don't need a vault to mine. You need them to store the gems to be able to do anything with them.


(It would take at least 4 worker units to build a granary. Definitely good to have, but also something we can push back for later.
I've updated current plan in the voting forum.)

"Then we are agreed," Djerard said, relieved, once all was done. It had been a long negotiation, but they had pulled through. I'll accept delay plans on a mine until we have a gate and farm established. And once be have a basic settlement complete, then we can discuss further plans." Doubtlessly, it would again be arduous negoriations, but no one said building a new settlement would be easy.

You need at least 1 worker, who will work for 4 rounds. Or 2W and it will take 2 rounds. Or 1W - 2W - 1W (3 rounds).

The "W" resource is basically labor. The rule is: you can't leave the project unattended (so at least 1 clan needs to be assigned to work on it) but otherwise you can put one clan to work on it for longer, or more to shorten the duration (can't get below 1 round, instabuilds are not possible). If you have appropriate resources, it's easier to build some things.

So: is there agreement? Or do we need to vote?

Are we in agreement even about the placement?

[Kinro]

IT looks like we agree on the items, but not on the placement. That is our vote for now.

[Articl8]

IT looks like we agree on the items, but not on the placement. That is our vote for now.

I may be jumping at shadows. If the game doesn’t worry about water effects much - and I don’t recall seeing rules about (im)permeability of rock, water tables, or anything of that kind, which would be pretty impactful - then the placement may be less important. Don’t mind me!

[Lacco]

I may be jumping at shadows. If the game doesn’t worry about water effects much - and I don’t recall seeing rules about (im)permeability of rock, water tables, or anything of that kind, which would be pretty impactful - then the placement may be less important. Don’t mind me!

"Don't give the GM ideas!" :smallbiggrin:

If you hit a water reservoir, we will attempt to simulate the ensuing flooding. Same for magma. And other stuff.

So in this case, putting a farm above will not lead to anything, unless the farm itself breaches some kind of reservoir/underground river.

I'd only suggest putting vaults into safeguarded positions (beyond gates and ideally beyond some dormitories, where brave dwarves will honorably die battling the underground horrors... oh. spoiler alert!).

I'll put a vote into voting thread today. Let's have a vote about this so we test the whole voting thingie.

[Articl8]

Our artisans may want to invent the self-closing flood gate…

[Lacco]

*furiously scribbles down notes on aqueducts, flooding and floodgates*

[Lacco]

Okay, let's vote, folks!

Head to the Voting & IC (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656713-HtHaD-MP-Council-Halls-of-Th%EEkutgim-(Booktwists)-IC&p=25788836#post25788836) and give us the vote.

[Lacco]

Voting is over!

Go to OP or the IC forum to see the results.

Current Year: 2

https://i.ibb.co/4YvWFYx/20230604-193239.jpg

Kingdom Status:
Guild of Minor Merchant (Artisan)
The Ironfist Deepguard (Warrior)
The Heldkammer Brethren (Worker)
No treasure.
No upkeep needed.
Three dormitories (full)
A farm.
A vault.
A Ruby (Gem) deposit prospected! It is size 1 and contains medium amount of gems!

@Kinro: your clan may choose to gain 1 dissent if you disagree with the vote.
@JbeJ275: your clan may choose to gain 1 dissent due to barracks being postponed.

In both cases, please inform me if you decide to gain dissent points & write them into your clan sheet (the post where you write about the clan).

So! First year is behind us.

I hereby open the council meeting for second year! Councilmen, state your plans, questions, and discuss!

[Kinro]

Djerard wasn't particularly thrilled with the placement of the new farm, but he figured that Harmond's workers would be the ones working it most often, so it made sense that they would have more say on its placement. "This year went well, I believe," he said. "We have a new farm and a vault where its produce can be placed until e get a proper granary. And now, I think we agreed on making a gate? Harmond, you can have your workers work your farm, make sure that there will be plenty of food ready for Oldorson's people. As for its emplacement,I think that we can leave Oldorson to decide it. I will accept whatever decision you make there."

[Articl8]

Harmond nodded gruffly. “A gate next, for our defence, then a vault and a mine, then perhaps another dormitory? The only comment I have about the gate is to perhaps place it a little underground rather than right at the surface, so as to make tunnelling around it harder?”

[JbeJ275]

“Aye” Speaks Elmador. “A gate, a vault and a mine serves me and mine well.”

[Lacco]

Is there an agreement?

A Gate requires 1W + one additional resource (so 2W in our case).
Vault requires 1W.

Mine and dorm will then have to wait. Farming will be then performed in the next round (upkeep is performed in the first phase of beginning of round - resources are claimed & processed).

The mine is actually 1x1, so it will require 1W when built.

[Lacco]

If there's an agreement on the build order, the question is 'location, location, location...'.

[Kinro]

"We can build the vault as we build the mine," Djerrard noted, "and get workers to farming now, so our soldiers will have food waiting for them. But I'd agree to building a vault now, too. As for locations, I would say that we build the second vault above where our mine will be. The gate should be placed east of our current vault, a fine place from which to launch future expeditions, I think."

[Articl8]

Harmond frowned and scratched his head, his beaded braids rattling softly. “Surely the point of a gate is to defend against external threats, and until we tunnel into something underground, the only way a threat can come is from the surface. I’d have thought that we should either build the gate right across the main entry shaft if we can, or right next to it where we can later close off other accesses, next to one dorm and above another. I do like the idea of building another gate on the east side of our existing chambers as a launching point in case we do tunnel into something later; I just think it’s not the right time to build one there now.”
OOC: are there rules for blocking off passages or shafts?

[Lacco]

Sorry! Missed your question in the edit.

First, your current options as stated:

https://i.ibb.co/N6ykrfX/20230613-110253.jpg

Regarding the question: currently there is no way. At least I have not thought about the option of blocking a tunnel. You can build fortifications, but if unmanned, they will be passed through.

So, a gate with a warrior clan is the best option.

I'd say that if you find a magma lake and pump it somewhere, you could block a tunnel. Or collapse a tunnel, but I'd say that would be dangerous (and there would be a chance of failure). Theoretically we can do it as a project. Should I think about it?

Regarding the unstated: if you look at the map with the two options, the gate - if placed into the shaft - will basically protect the whole lot of buildings from anyone who enters from west. But if you continue digging, I'd suggest placing another one lower and to the east.

[Togo]

A grey dove arrives, bearing the following note:

From Zalin Hagramul Uzbad Drashangashur under Drakkenpeak, to the most gracious Council of Thîkutgim.

A dragon hit our old hold, and it lives there now. Most of the survivors went East, but we came here instead.

Got room for a few keen 'uns?

In recognition of the wisdom of your speaking and in recognition of the generosity of granting your time to hear our missive, I am,

Zalin Broadbeard
Drakkenpeaks Clan

Hi!

Clan name: Drakkenpeaks Clan
Clan symbol: Hammerpick - a stylised tool with a hammer on one side and a pick on the other, usually presented like this: /
Origins: Hill dwarves
Leader -Zalin Broadbeard

[Kinro]

"This is an emergency! Djerrard called out. Our brothers are coming from Drakkenpeak and need a place to stay. We must halt construction on the vault to give them a place to stay instead. I will leave the position of the gate to others, though I still hope to have one ready before we send any expeditions, but would like to have the new dorm placed with the others, forming a goodly square."

[Lacco]

Welcome to the newcomers!

Just few words for introduction: new clans will migrate in during the beginning of new year. Usually only a single clan, but there are options how to make more of them migrate in.

Now the fact that your clan is not in game does not mean you should not participate in voting or discussions. On the contrary! Dwarven councilmen are present even before their clan arrives, so feel free to join.

Also, if you build a gate and a dormitory, there will be 2 empty dormitories (warriors will move to the gate and free up a dorm).

[Kinro]

"What am I thinking? The dormitory will be freed by our soldiers! How propitious! Let's return to the plan as discussed, then. One gate, one mine and one vault.

[DasIrrlicht]

The Mälsteri Klan.
Symbol: XXX (Triple Crossed Chisels? Stitch Marks? The markings on a barrel of questionable Alcohol? Whatever it is, its three X in a line.)
Komitte Dorf: Mikka Kova
Origins: Lone Mountain Dorfs
1 Worker
Beer-wise (As soon as there is a free Dormitory at the End of the Round, you may change it to Drinking Hall once per clan for free)
Loners Looneys? (+1 die to all rolls when facing overwhelming odds).




Usually only a single clan
Is this a case of usually or is this a special case cause they come with their own council representative?

its like three post in one.

"Ya where thinking ahead, Lad! That where ya thinking!" The dorf of unusually dirty beard that has come into the meeting has slept in one of the hallways the last days, barley noticed in a hammock strung to the roof, not having been part of any of the clan dormatories yet. "Call me Mikka. I am here as the first of ma Klan, the Mälsteri. The oddas are still on the track, and you can never, never ever, have enough extra space'n'rooms." They make a combing motion over their beard, which does nothing to clean the dust out of it. "So I am gonna help you think it to the end. Put that gate in, best probably in the access shaft, and then complete ta dorm'square'tory. Mine and Vault as ya see fit then."

[Lacco]

Is this a case of usually or is this a special case cause they come with their own council representative?

It's the usual case.

Players who wish to have their clan in play (and watch their destiny) are in queue until there is a 'free' clan.

Natural migration = 1 clan per round if there is a free dormitory.

Forced migration = additional clans, e.g. when a drinking hall is built, a 1d6 clans will decide to join. I'll roll and they will arrive to the surface, making camp and waiting until you get enough free dormitories.

You get natural migration only if there's a free dorm.

Also, should add the rules (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLlgP6dbq-dDaI2HP24htgMTcDsCnjPS5IyxqDfQ_ws/edit?usp=sharing) (additional stuff, feel free to comment) to the opening post.

[DasIrrlicht]

Natural migration = 1 clan per round if there is a free dormitory.
In that case, building a extra dorm will do nothing for this round for me, good to know. It does mean I am gonna try and get the others to have us some extra, empty dorm at the end of the round I join however, to get the ball on mass migration rolling with the markdown Drinking Hall.

[bramblefoot]

the risen demons

deep dorfs

Never seen sunlight, never seen a different race they did not wish to kill. So far.
Start with 1 Trained Warrior Clan; belongs to Warriors Caste; this Warrior clan can reside inside Dormitory and will act as Worker Clan until first Barracks are built. You may take Dissent if other buildings are built first.
Leader Traits: Xenophobic (+1 die to resisting any trades and treaties), Battle-scarred (+1 die to fights in depth - in lower half of the map)

symbol: sword and axe crossed

the risen demons are deep dorfs, pale as moonlight with lambent throbbing veins of purple in their skin. they are highly xenophobic, with mouths full of sharp needle teeth, and a deeply disturbing grin

thane grunni the mad

grunni is deeply disturbed, with plenty of scars, and longer teeth than most of his clan

[Articl8]

Regarding the question: currently there is no way. At least I have not thought about the option of blocking a tunnel. You can build fortifications, but if unmanned, they will be passed through.

So, a gate with a warrior clan is the best option.

I'd say that if you find a magma lake and pump it somewhere, you could block a tunnel. Or collapse a tunnel, but I'd say that would be dangerous (and there would be a chance of failure). Theoretically we can do it as a project. Should I think about it?

No idea if we’d ever use it, but it might be useful to have the option. I was thinking that there’d be a basic blocking- basically a solid wall with no passable openings- and an enhanced blocking, possibly made watertight, or to look like a natural rock mass, with subtle or no seams; such as a single massive slab dropped across a passage and fixed in place so it’d have to be dug through or bypassed - much more effort and craft required.
Magma would be a hazardous but ultimate form of the latter.

A horizontal blockage - across a vertical shaft - might be slightly more difficult than a vertical wall which could stand on a solid surface, but still possible with techniques like stone arches.

But I don’t see an imminent need just now, so I wouldn’t stress about it.

[Lacco]

No idea if we’d ever use it, but it might be useful to have the option. I was thinking that there’d be a basic blocking- basically a solid wall with no passable openings- and an enhanced blocking, possibly made watertight, or to look like a natural rock mass, with subtle or no seams; such as a single massive slab dropped across a passage and fixed in place so it’d have to be dug through or bypassed - much more effort and craft required.
Magma would be a hazardous but ultimate form of the latter.

A horizontal blockage - across a vertical shaft - might be slightly more difficult than a vertical wall which could stand on a solid surface, but still possible with techniques like stone arches.

But I don’t see an imminent need just now, so I wouldn’t stress about it.

I was already thinking about floodgates, acqueducts and general waterworks - inspired by the previous comments - and there are few broad ideas your statement gave me.

First: a project in style of 'chinese wall' but dwarven style. Work-demanding, resource-demanding (need a good stone) but able to stop even the worst enemies and make them seek a different venue.

Second: a project in style of pit trap/moat with a drawbridge. Again, work-demanding - or maybe not if you find a suitable pit/cave/(magma) lake in the area.

Third: a project of a trap gate. Basically, you'd need a dedicated mechanical workshop to create mechanisms for it, but it would drop a slab (would require an appropriate stone resource). Any standard monster that does not 'scout' the area will get crushed. You'd then have to restore the trap (pay upkeep for it with work and/or mechanisms). Major monsters would get to roll.

So yes: you can propose almost any project. I will then try to determine the cost & requirements and we can extend the rules for new projects. The projects that are already in the list are only basics - I am currently adding dams, cisterns and bridges to the list in the document and will continue.



EDIT: Welcome, thane Grunni the Mad!



To clarify: a kingdom can start at max 3 projects per round. That's mainly to be able to maintain my sanity - but can be viewed as dwarven reluctance to avoid starting new things before finishing the old ones. If you remove all workers from a project under construction, it will fail and has to be restarted, even if it's almost finished (we could discuss this for the larger projects though).

Vaults and dorms can be built as projects, or can be built as part of the 'Expand' action (which allows you to build new vaults and dorms - and is not limited to the 'start max 3 projects per round'). So if you get more dorf clans, you can start 3 projects and then expand as you like.

There is also an invisible variable called 'population cap'. If you reach it, your kingdom may randomly implode due to infighting and dwarven drunkedness and grudges. There will be warnings issued towards this in the yearly report, about unrest and fights. There are ways how to combat it. In the original game, it was 10 dorf clans, but this is no longer applicable.

In case a kingdom implodes, we move into the era of monsters and then another expedition will have a chance to try their luck. Maybe they even find the old kingdom and clean the halls...

[Lacco]

Result of voting:

https://i.ibb.co/19G0qw5/20230617-162619.jpg

@Kinro: you may take a point of Dissent if you choose to.

Current Year: 3

Kingdom Status:
Guild of Minor Merchant (Artisan)
The Ironfist Deepguard (Warrior)
The Heldkammer Brethren (Worker)
Drakkenpeaks Clan (Worker)
No treasure.
No upkeep needed.
Three dormitories (full)
A gate.
Two untended plots of a farm.
Two empty vaults.
A Ruby (Gem) deposit prospected! It is size 1 and contains medium amount of gems!

Drakkenpeaks Clan migrated in.
Awaiting outside the gates: The Mälsteri Klan and The Risen Demons.

No resources were claimed this round.

Opening dorf council for discussion! State your plans for actions of the clans, councildorf!

Bear in mind that you can't use the dwarves that are waiting outside the gates, although their councilmembers have vote and may fully attend council meetings.

@Togo: sorry for messing up the symbol.

[Kinro]

"So many clans are now waiting for admission that I think it's crucial that we build another dormitory," Djerrard said to the expanded table. We also need to work the far to feed our warriors. And I think it's finally time to build a mine on our gem deposit. Agreed?"

[DasIrrlicht]

I assume our clans can not contribute their workers while they are stuck on the surface? Or do we simply generate discontent for every round we are homeless?

"Ya, start diggin' 'nd farmin', sure, but the soona we get's'a roof over ar 'eads the betta." The head of the Mälsteri Klan is obviously not happy with the current living conditions. "Ai barle hav' enough shine to keep ma Klan in the roight spirits. And Ai don't think Grunnie over there is gonna take the sun much longer äther. We gotta need at least two, or three, more dorm'tories there."

They add a very quick concept of where to put the next dorms. It overall seems like they care about the one towards the east more, and probably plan to add something later next to their dorm on their own. Once they have moved in.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841435803355054120/1119694553176358972/image.png

[Kinro]

My understanding is that workers on the surface can't help to construct, but also that we can only have one clan per turn move in.

[bramblefoot]

"agreed" grunni, says cracking another of his disturbing smiles. "mah boys dinnae like the sun any more than your kind, and perhaps less"

"im with mikka in the dormitories,and getting the farm up"

[Articl8]

Harmond scowls, but nods. “We need the farm up and running, we need dormitories tae bring good dwarves in from the surface, and we need tha mine. But, we hafta choose dwarves over gems, plain as the nose on ma face! Get them lads inna dorms, then we can get minin’ fer real!”

[Lacco]

I assume our clans can not contribute their workers while they are stuck on the surface? Or do we simply generate discontent for every round we are homeless?

Yes. Regardless of their nature, dwarves are very orderly bunch: they don't move in unless there is space for them and they do not skip queue. And since they don't have a place to live, they take care of their own outside - so they can't really help out.

Staying outside waiting to get in does not generate Dissent. If you get outvoted (the idea you voted against gets more votes; if you don't vote it does not count), you may take a point of Dissent, or if you are a warrior clan used as workers (i.e. there is no gate or barracks for you to stay in) you can take a point of Dissent if the Council does not act fast enough.

There are only two conditions for the conversion.

1. There needs to be an empty dorm by the end of the round. That means you can not convert your own dorm (can't get homeless just to get drinks).
2. There needs to be space for it to be converted (drinking hall is 2x1, so there needs to be space for it to extend).

Afterwards, this is a special action that is out of regular order and council has no power over it. You decide when and which free dorm to convert. This may however mean you can push someone out of door (so they don't get in as there is no free dorm).


My understanding is that workers on the surface can't help to construct, but also that we can only have one clan per turn move in.

Correct. Only single addition to the second part would be 'normally'. There is something called 'forced migration', which occurs in some cases (e.g. dwarves build a drinking hall, a throne room or a city) and when that happens, more clans may move in immediately as dorms are available.


"im with mikka in the dormitories,and getting the farm up"

The Risen Demons will move in to the Gate together with The Ironfist Deepguard (two warrior clans can man a single Gate) as soon The Mälsteri Klan gets a Dormitory to move in. This will also mean that we'll have to assign a worker clan to the farm because there will not be enough foodstuff for two warrior clans (and tying down two worker/artisan clans to support the warriors would be wasteful).

[Kinro]

"Clans can only move in so fast, whether there is room or not," Djerrard noted. "So I maintain, one to work on our farm, one to build a dormitory and one to build a mine. Unfortunate as it is for our brothers waiting outside, we can't move faster than that. The best we can do is makes sure that when they do move in, it will be ti a settlement filled with riches."

[Lacco]

It seems that we do not have a simple agreement at this point. Therefore, councildorfs, please head to the voting (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656713-HtHaD-MP-Council-Halls-of-Th%EEkutgim-(Booktwists)-IC&p=25803371#post25803371)!

IT IS NOW TIME TO VOTE (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656713-HtHaD-MP-Council-Halls-of-Th%EEkutgim-(Booktwists)-IC&p=25803371#post25803371)!

Djerard of Guild of Minor Merchant stated his plan: one clan shall work on the farm, one clan shall dig a new dormitory and one clan shall mine the precious gems!
Mikka Kova of The Mälsteri Klan stated his plan: one clan shall work on the farm and the other two shall dig new dormitories!

So the vote is between mining and additional dormitory.

FYI: Whoever's vote wins, they shall state how the new buildings shall be arranged! This may be discussed here in the OOC/the council halls but the decision lies purely within the victor's hands.



Year 4 is upon us!

Current Year: 4

Kingdom Status:
Guild of Minor Merchant (Artisan)
The Ironfist Deepguard (Warrior)
The Heldkammer Brethren (Worker)
Drakkenpeaks Clan (Worker)
The Mälsteri Klan (Worker)
The Risen Demons (Warrior)

Treasure: three piles of rubies.
Upkeep: 2 foodstuff needed per round
Four dormitories (full)
A gate (manned by Ironfist Deepguard and Risen Demons).
Two plots of a farm.
Two vaults:
- 3 piles of rubies
- 1 foodstuff

A Ruby (Gem) mine. It is size 1 and contains remaining 2 piles of rubies.

https://i.ibb.co/Pxp7qyr/20230623-145027.jpg

Suggestion: an exploration party could go scouting...

[Kinro]

"Thing are progressing well, very well," Djerard said, clearly pleased that the rubies that had been in his mind since the ground was first broken were finally being mined. "Now, I would say that some things are clear. We must continue farming to feed our warriors and we must construct another dormitory for our brothers and sisters still waiting outside. And I'm certain that one particular clan will want a second dormitory to convert into their drinking hall. And this, to me, seems fine. It does leave a final clan with their hands free and, so, some options to pursue. We could start building another farm, to allow us to create a store of food. We could build a granary as a more proper place to build food. We could build a workshop, so that my artisans might create for us great works. We could build another vault to store more rubies in. Or else, we might use the last of the food not being used by our warriors to send an expedition in search of more resources. These, I believe, as our more enticing options. What say you all?"

(Is there room above the dorms for another construction? Sometimes, it looks like there is and sometimes not.)

[Articl8]

Harmond nodded, almost enthusiastically. “Yer not wide of the mark,” he asserted gruffly. “We need a new dorm fer the next clan ta use, a drinkin’ hall would go down well, and we hafta work that farm. Our food stores are limited, so we need another farm, or will soon, and a granary right behind it. Then we’ll want a workshop, and likely a barracks. Buildin’ a granary would free up a vault, so I reckon another vault is lessuv a priority; That’s where I’d put a scoutin’ expedition in our priorities. Then we need ta build a gate as a jumpin’off point fer new dev’lopment, whichevah way that’s goin’.”

[Kinro]

Surely, we could use our current gate as the beginning of our first expedition?" Djerrard proposed. But that seems to be for later. A farm from you for now, then. I wouldn't be opposed, but do any want to gainsay this?

[Articl8]

Harmond scratched his chin thoughtfully. “Aye, mebbe, so long as we dug straight down from it. Point is to keep the gate between our existin’ holdin’ and whatever we dig into!”

[bramblefoot]

"agreed" grunni says. "the risen demons will be happy to be the tip of the spear in the expedition" he purrs, picking his teeth with a dagger

[Togo]

"We need to explore the surface," says Andolf of the Draakenpeaks clan. "Find someone to trade these rubies to, see what they'll offer. It's not like those we send will eat any more out there than they would here. Less, probably."

"And we're going to need more food if we get more dwarves. Another clan farming would help."

[DasIrrlicht]

"Yee, get tha explorin' in, we can keep farmin' in tha meanwile... Gonn'neät sum propär stokk for tha Klans brew, anyways. Gottä mäke gud use of the vaste." They mumble something as they start sketching up their own suggestion. With three worker clans, two warrior clans and a artisian clan, they can probably get plenty done now. "Gonn'n'ged us som outsidäs in to help with thä mor' Botha'som stuff as well..."

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841435803355054120/1122571092175880352/Mikkas_Plan.png

With the size of the workforce, one might does not even need to split anything up yet. The Grainery is only far future proofing in the plan, however. The Workshop should be made sometime before so the Artisians can get some use out of the gems...

[Kinro]

"It seems we are all agreed?" Djerrard asked. "Two dorms to be built, one to be converted to a drinking hall. One clan will farm and one clan will start construction of a second farm. East of out topmost dorms, perhaps?"

[Togo]

And we explore...

[Kinro]

"We only have four dwarves able to work, with the warriors guarding the gate. IF we do these four things, we can't explore also," Djerrard noted.

[Lacco]

Apologies, councilman. My daughterdorf caught some stomach bug and 'projectile vomit' does not mix well with calm drawing of underground spaces.

Answers to questions and general comments:

@Kinro: Nope. Not enough space for a building there. I'd suggest moving on forward (below). After all, you just broke surface. Also, expanding east & west would be an option.

@Togo: don't have rules for exploring surface yet. Surface is dangerous :smallbiggrin: It has no ceiling.

Regarding work assignments:

Artisans: 1 clan
Guild of Minor Merchant: build a dorm

Workers: 3 clans
1 clan works the farm
1 clan builds a dorm
1 clan free (either start to build a farm, join the expedition to provide +5 length of tunnel)

Warriors: 2 clans
1 clan guards the gate
1 clan goes on the expedition (adds +1 length of dug tunnels)

As far as I understand, expedition should head directly below.

You don't have to send a worker clan to explore & dig tunnels, but they provide the most work there (they dig for length 5, artisans dig for 2, warriors dig for 1).
You need to spend 1 foodstuff per clan sent => you farm to feed the warriors & you use the remaining 1 foodstuff for the workers.

So, is there an agreement? If yes, the vote shall be set later today regarding the one remaining worker clan.

Also: we had a volunteer - clan of Risen Demons - for the exploration expedition. If there are more volunteers, there may be additional voting. Bear in mind that if you send a hill dwarf, they'll have a longer range to detect gems & ores. And the clan that goes exploring may run into trouble.

[DasIrrlicht]

So, is there an agreement? If yes, the vote shall be set later today regarding the one remaining worker clan.
Mostly? Personally would have put a second dorf into the farms, but thats not a position I think is worth fighting for.

Well, if we build two dorms, I would say one above the farm-next to the vault (This one will be converted into a drinking hall by the Mälsteri Klan) and the other above that, next to the other dorms, and conneceted to the drinkinghall-to-be. Mälsteri can move in to the dorm above the drinking hall and share the space with the barrels.
I would suggest the free worker to start building a workshop in the west or join digging. The warriors should be the ones leading the expedition however.

We will need a workshop. If we have any casulties during the explorations, we need to be able to create some proper grave artifacts for the fallen. We gotta future proof that.

[Kinro]

One worker can work a two tiles farm by themselves. If we want more farmers, we need more farms. I agree that we'll need a workshop, but if we want to start making more expeditions, we'll need at least one more farm to provide the food for it.

[Articl8]

I reckon we need a consistent food surplus before we start running expeditions. Then the expedition can keep going until they find something! So, a second farm is a must-have.

[DasIrrlicht]

Looks like a weird many-way tie vote for this season so far?
- Expedition & Build Extra Farm
- Expedition & Workshop
- Expedition & MORE Expedition
- Extra Farm & No Expedition, but something undetermined else for the warriors to do.

Maybe we need Lacco to install a different voting system more suitable then simple majority, at this point. Or it will be split up into multiple votes for each different kind of dwarf with no strict plan agreed upon (So for one warrior and one artisian clan?)?

In the case that we do choose the extra farm (even when I believe having a workshop is basically a essencial for a working dorf society) can we just put it east of the current farm and call it 'the farming level'?

[Togo]

Bearing that in mind, I can volunteer my (hill) dwarves to go explore, while the risen demons do some farming.

Which isn't their speciality, but then it isn't exactly what my guys are good at either...

[Kinro]

Can warriors farm? My understanding is that once they've got a barracks or a gate, that's what they're doing.

[Lacco]

One worker can work a two tiles farm by themselves. If we want more farmers, we need more farms.

This is correct, but...

To simplify: There are two modes of farming: sustainable and unsustainable.
Sustainable = 1 clan works 2 tiles, gets 2 foodstuff. Can be done for unlimited amount of time.
Unsustainable = you send more than 1 clan. They collect more foodstuff, but after certain (random, secret variable amount of uses; can be also equal to 1), the farm goes barren and can't be used. This can be used to get more foodstuff on short-term basis.


Looks like a weird many-way tie vote for this season so far?
- Expedition & Build Extra Farm
- Expedition & Workshop
- Expedition & MORE Expedition
- Extra Farm & No Expedition, but something undetermined else for the warriors to do.

Warriors can guard, raid, explore or wage war. Not many uses for them outside of war, but when they are required... they are indispensable.

The only point where you can use warrior clans outside of these simple uses is when they migrate in (a new player joins) and there is no gate/barracks/fort for them.


Maybe we need Lacco to install a different voting system more suitable then simple majority, at this point. Or it will be split up into multiple votes for each different kind of dwarf with no strict plan agreed upon (So for one warrior and one artisian clan?)?

In the case that we do choose the extra farm (even when I believe having a workshop is basically a essencial for a working dorf society) can we just put it east of the current farm and call it 'the farming level'?

If there are suggestions for different voting system, I'm all ears. The current voting system should work followingly:
- each councilmember states their plan for various clans
- if there is agreement, we skip voting
- if there is partial agreement (nobody has a differing plan or you agree beforehand on something, but have differences in certain clans), a vote is set
- vote is set based on the plans
- you vote for the options
- option with largest amount of votes wins; in case of ties, the common dorf (read: me) is the tiebreaker.

In the meantime, you can discuss, make plans together, propose solutions, find compromises, or even vie for power or bribe each other (the old 'you scratch my beard, I'll scratch yours...').

So, I'll just do it as the rules state... see below.


Can warriors farm? My understanding is that once they've got a barracks or a gate, that's what they're doing.

They can't once they are in barracks. If, for some reason (e.g. farm is out due to an attack from the outside; not by council decision), there is not enough food, the warriors will stop their action to actually work for their upkeep (with some exceptions, e.g. defending their land and all that).

For expedition, you need foodstuff for the workers & artisans, but if warriors are taken care of (e.g. by a worker clan that farms for them), it's ok.



In line with what's stated above: please, councildorf, state your plans for the clans.

Next voting shall commence from Wednesday midday (where I'm at), so I need to know what the plans are.

Thank you.

[DasIrrlicht]

please, councildorf, state your plans for the clans.

Since we have: 3 workers, 1 artisian, 2 warriors
My suggestion, starting with what mostly seems agreed upon:
- 1 Warrior Clan guard the gate.
- 1 Warrior Clan to explore south of the gate. They need no extra food for this beyond regular upkeep, afterall.

- 1 Worker Clan Farm to keep food in balance. Since they generate two foodstuff a round, and since our storage feels rather limited at the time, sustainable farming is more then sufficent
- 1 Worker Klan builds the 'Dorm' above the farm, connected to the food-vault. If it is build there, Klan Mälsteri will convert it into a drinking hall to the east. (See posted image on that one if unclear)

And now for the two more debated ones I probably expect to see a vote on:
- 1 Worker builds a dorm in the dorm-a-rectangle
- The Artisans start working on a Workshop, I suggest west of the vault & mines. As a 2x2 room, it will be the biggest room for a while and I do not expect it to be done fast. But since we are starting to send the warriors out to explore, we should get our local industry running, get a use out of the gems, and make some good, propper artifacts.

[Kinro]

Djerrad now suggests:

- 1 Warrior Clan guard the gate.
- 1 Warrior Clan to explore south of the gate
- 1 Worker farms
- 1 Worker builds a dorm
- 1 Worker and 1 Artisan build a farm

[Lacco]

Very well, councildorf!

Voting is now OPEN. Please proceed and cast your votes! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656713-HtHaD-MP-Council-Halls-of-Th%EEkutgim-(Booktwists)-IC&p=25818055#post25818055)

Voting should be finished by Sunday noon. I will have time on Sunday afternoon to draw, so we should start a new year on Monday.

Welcome back, councildorf!

Few points from the GM side:

Re: voting -
Voting seems to be misunderstood: at that point, you should not be eager to get convinced otherwise - the council meeting is for all the compromises, understandings, arrangements and convincing (bribing...?). At this part, you should propose the actions - your plans - and you can modify them, and get agreement from the others, or discuss what would be the best.

Voting is just throwing your vote to one of the agreed propositions.

I'm not sure if we should formalise the proposals (like stating a proposal: build a farm, build a dorm and go for an expedition) and when you change it next, just edit it out in the last one) - or if the current way of stating anything and then me hunting down the actual proposals works for you.

So: councildorf that make proposals, cater to your voters :smallbiggrin: they seem to like to get convinced.

Re: migration -
feel free to spend a year just building out dorms and then using the Mälsteri klan's ability to force migration of 1d6 other clans. Maybe I roll well and you get a lot of 'waiting clans' outside. Lots of workers, lots of things to do with such a workforce. Or do it slowly - no problem there. I enjoy getting more practice on my drawings.

Re: expeditions -
warriors are good to accompany exploratory expeditions, but they won't get far without those energetic diggy-diggy dwarves. Now that you have established the perimeter is safe enough, feel free to build a bit and then launch another, bigger expedition. There are things in the depths that are worth exploring, just one dig away... if you dig the right way.

Still, these are just suggestions. It's up to you what you do.

Also, thank you for the fun you are providing. I am enjoying myself in this game so far. Hope you are too. If you have any feedback, feel free to PM me. I'm happy to receive any positive feedback, and I'm working on my ability to process negative one, so provide me with training and give me some constructive feedback.

Year 5, councildorf! Discuss and propose the actions!


- dispatch an expedition (exploration party to dig & prospect, raiding party, warband, trade caravan or ambassador),

- change clan specialisation (costs 1 treasure; workers = dig, build & farm, artisans = build & craft; requires a workshop, warriors = fight; requires barracks or fort)

- distinguish Paragons & assign clans (paragons are leaders that lead the specific clan, they can be used as warband commanders and ambassadors)

- assign/move resources/clans (exploit a resource, assist in a project, assign a workshop, etc.)

- expand (build Dormitories - for 'storing' clans - and Vaults - for storing resources)

- start a project (3 projects may be built at one time, they require resources, work and are time-consuming; examples of projects are great halls, secret vaults, fortifications...)

[Kinro]

"We are doing well, well indeed," Djerrard said. "And I think now is the time to explore and expand. Three new dorms, is my suggestion, one to be expanded into a drinking hall, and one expedition, downwards from the gate, composed of one worker clan and a warrior clan accompanying them, with the remaining worker to work one of our farms."

[bramblefoot]

"We are doing well, well indeed," Djerrard said. "And I think now is the time to explore and expand. Three new dorms, is my suggestion, one to be expanded into a drinking hall, and one expedition, downwards from the gate, composed of one worker clan and a warrior clan accompanying them, with the remaining worker to work one of our farms."

"agreed" grunni says. "we've yet to whet out appetite for combat"

[DasIrrlicht]

"We are doing well, well indeed," Djerrard said. "And I think now is the time to explore and expand. Three new dorms, is my suggestion, one to be expanded into a drinking hall, and one expedition, downwards from the gate, composed of one worker clan and a warrior clan accompanying them, with the remaining worker to work one of our farms."

"Ya got ma worrie' that we nev'r get to hav' An'thing that ma granma could not pull outa th' dirt hersel'v." The leader of the Mälsteri Klan mumbles. "An' holly'd be her name, But she is watchin' roots gro'rom'below." It seems like there is some discontent, especially with the favoured place for the drinking hall wasted by some vegtable vines. They make sure their next sentence is as accent free as they can manage. "Two dorms, the Drinkin'orm one gets to be directly above that farm and expand to the side of that, too. And that extra free Klan can go and start on that workshop or we won' amount to anythin' any time soon."

Anyways, taking the Dissent in cause we where denied alcohol for to long.
Proposing:
2 new dorms, one being build up and towards the right of that new farm to be a drinking hall and get a nice reverse Piramid pattern on that side going.
Someone starts a Workshop, somewhere, ideally not in the way and in explored area. So probably left side of the gate. What kind of dwarfs are we to have no craftdwarfship to speak of?
Not at all concerned what is going to happen with the rest of the clans. I trust our warriors to find something to do, and our farmers to not burn down the fortress.

[Kinro]

"The drinking hall will bring more clans to us," Djerrard noted, and they can't well work for us if they're stuck on the surface. My artisans itch for a workshop more than you know, but getting more workers here will get it done faster than if we leave them out."

[Articl8]

“We’ll need food for explorations an’ tradin’ expeditions alike. Now we’ve got a second farm, we need bodies ta work it. So, we def’nitely need more clans, and that means more dorms. Ah’d love a drinkin’ hall, it’s like a temperance convention down ‘ere! Then next year fer sure we gotta build a workshop, an’ mine out the rest o’ the rubies so’s we’ve somethin’ worth tradin’, and we’ll need a granary ‘fore the cave-mice get inna food vault!”

[Lacco]

So: these are current proposals:

Djerrard (Guild of Minor Merchant): build 3 new dorms, expedition (1 warrior, 1 worker) and 1 clan does farming
Mikka (Mälsteri Klan): 2 new dorms, start a workshop, 2 farmers (or 1 farmer, 2 clans work on workshops)
Harmond (Heldkammer Brethren): 3 new dorms, 2 farmers

All solid proposals. Exploration may bring new resources but also dangers. Workshop will give you the option to turn resources into more valuable items and build wealth. Stocking on food will provide you with the option to really explore or will free the farmers to work on other projects.

So there is some agreement:

2 dorms, 1 clan farms.

The disagreements are:


3rd dorm and expedition
workshop
just farming


Any comments/discussions? Or shall we move into voting?

[Articl8]

Clarifying OOC: Three dorms, one farming this year; hoping for a new clan for double farming next year.

[Lacco]

Clarifying OOC: Three dorms, one farming this year; hoping for a new clan for double farming next year.

To clarify: there is an unnamed (unclaimed) clan - so we have 4 worker clans, 2 warrior clans and one artisan clan.

I should have copied the status into OOC. My mistake.



Current Year: 5

Kingdom Status:
Guild of Minor Merchant (Artisan)
The Ironfist Deepguard (Warrior)
The Heldkammer Brethren (Worker)
Drakkenpeaks Clan (Worker)
The Mälsteri Klan (Worker)
The Risen Demons (Warrior)
Unnamed Clan (Workers)

Treasure: three piles of rubies.

Upkeep: 2 foodstuff needed

Five dormitories (full)
A gate (manned by Ironfist Deepguard and Risen Demons).
Four plots of a farm.
Two vaults:
- 3 piles of rubies
- 1 foodstuff

A Ruby (Gem) mine. It is size 1 and contains remaining 2 piles of rubies.

https://i.ibb.co/JQjBBv6/20230710-184716.jpg

[Articl8]

In that case, three dorms, one farming, and one starting on a workshop?
Presumably the workshop needs to be completed before it can be used, and that allows double farming to be delayed until next year, along with starting a garanary, while still having food ready to supply a trading expedition by the time we’re ready to despatch one.

[Kinro]

Completing a workshop will take 5 worker units.

[Articl8]

Arguably, that underlines the urgency of starting one soon.

[Kinro]

"All the more reason to allow for as many workers as we're able," Djerard reason. "And to explore to seek out resources which could make the work that much the easier."

[Articl8]

Conceded. If we can build four dorms and have a chance of filling those vacant, it’ll increase our working output, so long as we get worker clans.

[Lacco]

After clarification:

First proposal: build 3 new dorms, expedition (1 warrior, 1 worker) and 1 clan does farming
Second proposal: 2 new dorms, 2 clans start a workshop, 1 farmer
Third proposal: 4 new dorms, 1 farmer

Agreements are:

2 dorms, 1 clan farms.

The disagreements are:

1 additional dorm and expedition
workshop
2 additional dorms

Sorry, took my sweet time with my health issues. Should be smoother sailing now that I'm better.

Councildorf, head to the voting halls! Throw in a vote for the plan that best suits your future kingdom! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656713-HtHaD-MP-Council-Halls-of-Th%EEkutgim-(Booktwists)-IC&p=25828858#post25828858)

Voting ends Sunday as soon as sun sets!

[Kinro]

Djerrard let it be known that he has no qualms about placing the room that will be a drinking hall where Mikka suggests, no matter who might win the vote, nor opposes them, or anyone, moving to a free dorm that they would prefer.

[DasIrrlicht]

Two As, Three Cs, No Lacco. Looks like they are caught up with IRL stuff. Just wanna throw in that when they return, I am happy to continue.

[Articl8]

Likewise. Still here.

[Lacco]

Thank you for your patience. Sorry, meant to write sooner but you know how it gets: RL strikes and you say 'I'll write something tomorrow' and suddenly you have not visited forums for weeks.

I'm now positively swamped, but I will continue somewhere in the middle of this week (got a serious deadline for Monday, should be fine by Wednesday). Again, thank you for being patient.

BTW, feel free to discuss what to do with the 3 new clans you have due to the forced migration! :smallwink:

[DasIrrlicht]

Anyone new gets to work a shift in the farms so the ones right now in the farms can do something more dwarf-friendly.

[Articl8]

Sounds to me like two clans farming plus one worker clan to support an expedition; other workers on some combination of dorms and a workshop.
Edit: Happy to rotate farming duty so everyone gets to feel like a proper dwarf!

[Togo]

That would certainly be nice? Love to dump the hoe and go on an expdition?