Loudwater Campaign Question(s)

[Wildstag]

So I'm running the Loudwater low-level campaign (Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide) for a group of friends but it's also my first time DM'ing.

The group is currently on their way to the Zelbross Bandits, but during the fight with the Lady of Shadows, Narrows and the Elf Archer ran away. I figured I'd have them return on an occasional basis, still working with the Najara agents, but not as a serious threat. My main concern is that Narrows has an ability called "Cloak of Shadows", an immediate interrupt at-will that blinds a foe that makes an opportunity attack against him.

Does this ability represent (effectively) a GM-fiat power? I see no resource that would give him an additional power. Would making it an item for the players to pick up (if he ever dies) be too powerful?

So far, he's only fought the party twice, I added an ambush between Loudwater and Zelbross led by the two returning enemies: partially to make the players feel like the bandits are ready, and partially to give them enough exp to end the scripted story with enough exp to hit level 3. One of my players seems to think the "Cloak of Shadows" is an item, and I kinda don't want to disappoint them, especially since he's used the ability to great effect twice now to escape them.

So any advice or answers?

[Sol]

Does this ability represent (effectively) a GM-fiat power? I see no resource that would give him an additional power.

I'm not entirely sure what the question is here. Am I correct in my reading that you're like, looking for why Narrows has this power?

In 4e, most enemies just sort of _have_ whatever powers make sense for them to have, or whatever powers make them a more compelling enemy to face, or often just whatever is cool. This particular power could easily be explained as gifted to him either by the Lady of Shadows directly, or by his proximity to her, or just bc he's a rogue and it's cool.

I'm not familiar enough with this adventure to know if it's ever explained in the module text, but i kinda doubt it is.


Would making it an item for the players to pick up (if he ever dies) be too powerful?

This depends a lot on the power level of other items you're giving out. At-will utility powers are pretty rare. What's the duration of the blind? Is it automatic or does it involve a roll? If it's until the end of Narrows' current turn, that's significantly less powerful than if it lasts until the start of the target's next turn, which is significantly less powerful than if it lasts until the start of Narrows' next turn, which is less powerful than if it lasts until the end of Narrows' next turn.

The ability for one person to run away from a fight is also like, a significantly better ability in the hands of a NPC than it is in the hands of a player, who is (often) going to be more reluctant to ditch his party mid-fight.


he's used the ability to great effect twice now to escape them.

Are you running immediate actions correctly? Each person only gets one per round unless they have a feature (and these are rare) that says otherwise. Does your party only have one melee combatant engaging him and attempting to make an OA on him when he decides it's time to run? Do your party's melee combatants have low attack modifiers or bad dice luck?

Giving one target a -5 to their opportunity attack roll once per round at the expense of using any other immediate action feels...i mean, not bad, certainly, but it doesn't feel overpowered to me, almost to the point where i'm not sure how it's been used to great effect twice unless he's just been very lucky, your players unlucky, or i'm missing something.

[Vhaidara]

Unless the Cloak of Shadows is an item listed on Narrow's monster sheet, it isn't an item, it's an ability.


Are you running immediate actions correctly? Each person only gets one per round unless they have a feature (and these are rare) that says otherwise. Does your party only have one melee combatant engaging him and attempting to make an OA on him when he decides it's time to run? Do your party's melee combatants have low attack modifiers or bad dice luck?

Giving one target a -5 to their opportunity attack roll once per round at the expense of using any other immediate action feels...i mean, not bad, certainly, but it doesn't feel overpowered to me, almost to the point where i'm not sure how it's been used to great effect twice unless he's just been very lucky, your players unlucky, or i'm missing something.

They almost certainly are not, because that power sounds almost impossible to use. In 4e, you cannot use an immediate action on your own turn. So this would require Narrows to provoke an opportunity attack outside of his own turn. Given it's from FRPG, a book with...frankly some of the worst editing in 4e, I suspect this was just an early monster poorly written.

EDIT: oh, and also, it wouldn't be -5 to hit with the OA, you can't take opportunity attacks against things you can't see, ie you can't take them while blinded. So it is just a negation of the OA. If you can even use the power in the first place (see the earlier mentioned issues with actions)

Also, to answer the question about usage

Cloak of Shadows (immediate interrupt, when an enemy makes an opportunity attack against narrows; at-will)

Attacker is blinded (save ends).

I pulled that from Narrow's compendium entry. Which supports my thought that this is just a poorly written monster, because the formatting on that power is attrocious.

[Sol]

In 4e, you cannot use an immediate action on your own turn.
ah yea, forgot that gem of a rule. So in order to function this would need to be rewritten as a free action on your turn and categorized as an attack power.


EDIT: oh, and also, it wouldn't be -5 to hit with the OA, you can't take opportunity attacks against things you can't see, ie you can't take them while blinded.

I don't think I agree with this one. While interrupts resolve before the triggering action, the triggering action has already begun, and the trigger is that someone [begins] an OA against Narrows. The trigger for an OA (in this case, a creature you can see leaves a square within your reach) has already been met before the interrupt, and the PC is then blinded before making their MBA (against a creature with total concealment bc they're now blind).

I can see where you're coming from though, since interrupts do invalidate actions if they are no longer possible to complete. So, it's not unreasonable to rule that it invalidates the OA trigger, i just don't think I would.

[Wildstag]

Would making it a minor action kinda solve the action economy shenanigans?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

In 4e, most enemies just sort of _have_ whatever powers make sense for them to have, or whatever powers make them a more compelling enemy to face, or often just whatever is cool. This particular power could easily be explained as gifted to him either by the Lady of Shadows directly, or by his proximity to her, or just bc he's a rogue and it's cool.

Seconding this. Monster statblocks don't use PC-building rules, they're abstractions of the ability that the NPC has. I think there's definitely room to make a magic item based on this NPC's ability, and say that's where he gets the power, but also keep in mind that there's a lot of possible explanations here.

For example, maybe the cloak is magic but it also draws on his personal connection to the Lady of Shadows, and using it at full power requires that sort of connection. This can be really good for story because now a player that really wants to use it at full potential has a personal goal: to get that connection. In the meantime, you can give it a less powerful effect, and let them figure out why it's not working the same, using skill checks, etc. Once they figure out how to unlock the full power of it, they have choices to make.

Caveat, I don't know this adventure, so I don't know if that would interfere with the story in a bad way, but it sounds cool to me!

[Vhaidara]

Would making it a minor action kinda solve the action economy shenanigans?

Not really, and a minor action at-will SE effect line blind is pretty out of line for a level 4 monster. Honestly, he's a skirmisher, and clearly one modeled on a rogue. I would just give him the rogue power Tumble (shift your speed) as an at-will. Probably modify his basic attack to be modeled on Acrobatic Strike, play a bit more into a mobility theme.