Grondsmash's observation that Extend is technically ... extendible.

[Segev]

I have yet to think of a spell where Extend is useful; What's 20 minutes instead of 10 good for, or 2 minutes instead of 1? Maybe 16 hours of mage armor is...something? I guess you could at least cast that at the start of your long rest and have it up for the start of the next day.


The Extend has far greater abilities. You limit it to only one doubling, but that is not what the power says. Each 1 point doubles, to a maximum of 24 hours. If it was only once it would say only once, and "with a limit of 24 hours" would be added, usually in parentheses.

"When you cast a spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer. you can spend 1 sorcery point to double its duration, to a maximum duration of 24 hours."

That...is an interesting observation. I can definitely see your interpretation.

I am not sure it's intended, as I suspect it'd have come up by now if it were, but it certainly can be read that way. That raises some interesting questions about what spells to use that with, and just how long you need to extend certain spells to make that a useful metamagic on them.

A quick table, starting with 1 minute duration:


# SP Final Duration
1 2 minutes
2 4 minutes
3 8 minutes
4 16 minutes
5 32 minutes
6 1 hour + 4 minutes
7 2 hours + 8 minutes
8 4 hours + 16 minutes
9 8 hours + 32 minutes
10 17 hours + 4 minutes
11 24 hours (maximum)

[Hytheter]

It says you can spend one sorcery point. One. Not one or more, or up to X. There is no language permitting you to spend multiple sorcery points or to increase the duration by more than double. I don't consider this ambiguous.

[Psyren]

I know 5e's almost over but I'm not sure wherefore all these weird/cheesy rules readings are coming out of the woodwork :smalltongue:

In any event, what Hytheter said - you can only spend 1 point for Extend, and you can't apply the same MM more than once (or multiple MMs) unless stated.

[diplomancer]

Extend Aid is good, as is Extend Summons on a Sorlock, or Extend Gift of Alacrity.

[Gignere]

Extend Aid is good, as is Extend Summons on a Sorlock, or Extend Gift of Alacrity.

Extend foresight, all wizards should grab metamagic adept as their last feat just for that combo.

[Hytheter]

Yeah, my bard extends Foresight and a nice upcast Aid on himself at bed time before a big day.

[Gignere]

Yeah, my bard extends Foresight and a nice upcast Aid on himself at bed time before a big day.

Why wouldn’t you share your extended Aid with two other party members?

[Amnestic]

You can only apply only one metamagic effect to a spell, per the Sorcerer entry:

You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.


Extend specifies you can use one Sorcery Point to double its duration. Spending another sorcery point would be applying Extend again, which you can't do.

One could argue that if it was meant to be usable multiple times, it would say so. Something like "Spend 1 or more sorcery points, doubling its duration for each point spent". It doesn't though.

[Osuniev]

My houserule is : Extend Metamagic can be used to move the duration up one category :
1 min-> 10min->1h->8h->24h->1 week->1 month->1 year ->10 years

It makes it useful, yet it hasn't been abused despite 2 of my optimizers having it.
Mostly they use it to Rest Cast things like Mage Armor or Aid.

[Psyren]

One could argue that if it was meant to be usable multiple times, it would say so. Something like "Spend 1 or more sorcery points, doubling its duration for each point spent". It doesn't though.

I would word this more strongly - "if you want to have the ability to spend more than 1 point on this metamagic, it needs to say so."


My houserule is : Extend Metamagic can be used to move the duration up one category :
1 min-> 10min->1h->8h->24h->1 week->1 month->1 year ->10 years

It makes it useful, yet it hasn't been abused despite 2 of my optimizers having it.
Mostly they use it to Rest Cast things like Mage Armor or Aid.

While I agree that 8h->24h usually isn't a big deal, I'd say the 10min -> 1hr and especially 1 hr -> 8 hr bumps are pretty noteworthy. This lets you pull off materially different tactics like sleeping inside a Rope Trick, autosucceeding at a day's worth of social encounters with Glibness, removing dangerous foes as threats for an entire day with a Forcecage, trapping multiple outsiders with your low level slots spent on Circles etc.

[Gignere]

I would word this more strongly - "if you want to have the ability to spend more than 1 point on this metamagic, it needs to say so."



While I agree that 8h->24h usually isn't a big deal, I'd say the 10min -> 1hr and especially 1 hr -> 8 hr bumps are pretty noteworthy. This lets you pull off materially different tactics like sleeping inside a Rope Trick, autosucceeding at a day's worth of social encounters with Glibness, removing dangerous foes as threats for an entire day with a Forcecage, trapping multiple outsiders with your low level slots spent on Circles etc.

8 hour conjure animals for a shepherd Druid damn.

[Osuniev]

8 hour conjure animals for a shepherd Druid damn.


It is definitely good. But it is 8 hours if not losing concentration, and requires the Druid to multiclass sorcerer or to have metamagic adept. If they take that significant investment, I'm ok with them not being restrained by time (1 hour of Conjure Animals is often long enough in a dungeon environment anyway).



While I agree that 8h->24h usually isn't a big deal, I'd say the 10min -> 1hr and especially 1 hr -> 8 hr bumps are pretty noteworthy. This lets you pull off materially different tactics like sleeping inside a Rope Trick, autosucceeding at a day's worth of social encounters with Glibness, removing dangerous foes as threats for an entire day with a Forcecage, trapping multiple outsiders with your low level slots spent on Circles etc.

Yes, I think these materially different tactics are precisely what makes the Metamagic interesting !

[Psyren]

Yes, I think these materially different tactics are precisely what makes the Metamagic interesting !

A train wreck is certainly interesting too :smalltongue:

[Hytheter]

Why wouldn’t you share your extended Aid with two other party members?

I would, and do when allowed to, but it's a Westmarches server rather than a stable party. It's not a given that you spend time with your party or even know who they will be before the mission starts. I do give it to my Simulacrum, though. Foresight might go on an ally if I do get the advanced prep, too.