Help me plan my Red Mage build (Final Fantasy)

[Flik9999]

Hello so iv started a new campaign.
Its not a high power group which I like xos the game becomes a nice bit more challenging when ppl are not makinh crazy multiclass characters but I was able to play phb +1 (Tashas)
Currently we are level 2 and i started as sorcerer(Draconic) my 2nd level is in bard which means I have access to attack amd healing magic.

Race: Human
Stats: S:8 D:16 C:14 I:8 W:10 C:16
Feat: Metamagic adept; Twin, Quickspell
My cantrips are: Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, Firebolt, Ray of Frost, Vicceous mockery, light
Spells: Burning Hands, Shield, Healing word, Dissonant Whispers, Charm Person, Sleep

A red mage is a jack if all trades, they can fight with rapier, they can cast offensive damage spells and they can heal but not as good as a specialist.

I was thinking of going the next 5 levels into lore bard to get short rest bardic inspiration. Cutting words is also good at reducing damage. I was going to go up to at least level 2 in Sorcerer so I get font of Magic which would give me 4 Metamagic points.

From there im not sure what would be the best route to go. More sorcerer for more SP keep going with Bard til max level or even add more stuff later. Red mages are not controllers they usually like to cast 2 spells simultaneously, can cast both white and black magic usually only the first 2 anf also fight in melee when they run out of mp.

I could also go into arcanetrickster for more fighting ability with the rapier and also some more spells but not sure if that would be a good idea as its only a 1/3 caster.

[Gignere]

If I was trying to do a red mage in D&D it would probably be some kind of either EK/Divine Soul or Paladin / Sorcerer.

That’s the only way I can see getting good coverage for the spells the FF1 red mage gets access to. Probably the EK / Divine Soul is the closest although maybe a battle smith Artificer / wizard multiclass can work too.

Given what you have selected so far maybe consider going swords bard instead of lore. For a bit more fighting prowess.

[Leon]

If your open to Homebrew there is a nice FF14 compendium of classes and such on GM binder

[Anymage]

Any reason why a simple valor or swords bard couldn't work? You get heals, the occasional flashy combat spell (and eventually magical secrets), and some baseline competency in weapons and armor. That's a decent jack of all trades.

The problem with sorcerer/bard is that while it's occasionally worthwhile for a caster to dip another caster class, an even split tends to tank you hard because you don't have the properly leveled spells you'd want.

[diplomancer]

I'd say the Celestial Generalist makes a decent Red Mage. V. Human Celestial Tomelock with Moderately Armoured feat, Shillelagh and Blade Cantrips. More details on the first post here, though you don't need to follow it strictly:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

[RogueJK]

As noted, a Sorcerer/Bard isn't a very synergistic combo. I certainly wouldn't water it down any further with Arcane Trickster levels! And also as noted, splitting levels evenly in a multiclass is rarely a path to success. Instead, you're going to want to pick either Sorcerer or Bard as your primary class, and stick to just 1 level with the other.

While the other posters have posted good options for making a Red Mage from scratch with something like an EK, Sorcadin, or Warlock build, let's instead focus on how to work with what you already have invested in this PC...

I definitely think sticking with Bard is the better option here, especially since you're wanting to make an "all-around/jack-of-all-trades" caster. Starting Sorcerer gained you CON save proficiency which saves you a feat on Warcaster/Resilient CON, plus you gained some better cantrips and Shield, so wasn't a terrible move. But I wouldn't go any more Sorcerer levels from here. A 2nd level of Sorcerer like you're suggesting doesn't really gain you anything, since you don't gain Metamagic options until Sorcerer 3, and at Sorcerer 2 you'd only have 2 Spell Points (not 4), so that's merely allows you to regenerate a single 1st level slot per Long Rest. Not worth delaying your higher level Bard spells and abilities any further.

So leaver Sorcerer at just 1 level and go straight Bard from here. You'll need figure out what style of Bard you want to be. If you want to focus on being more of a caster, go Lore Bard and use your Magical Secrets to grab some choice non-Bard offensive spells. Or if you want to be more effective in weapon combat, go Swords Bard for Extra Attack, a Fighting Style, and Blade Flourishes. BB/GFB will tide you over until Extra Attack comes online at Character Level 7.

(Going Whispers Bard for the Psychic Blades quasi-smite to pair with BB/GFB on your lone attack is also an option for a melee-focused Bard, but thematically that subclass and its other abilities doesn't really go with the style of Red Mage you're wanting.)

[Flik9999]

I went sorcerer because I want dualcast, also I need access to some elemental magical attack cantrips as well as burning hands. Bard doesnt really get attack magic them. I have a feat metamagic adept which gives me 2 metamagic: Twin and quickcast. With level 2 sorcerer I get Font of magic which allows me to recarge my metamagic and then I have a total of 4 Metamagicpoints which can be recharged with font of magic.

[Amnestic]

Building from scratch, I'd go Int instead of Cha.

Bladesinger Wizard 6/Artillerist Artificer 5/Arcane Trickster 9. This still keeps to the PHB+1 (Tasha's) too, since Bladesinger and Artificer are both in Tasha's.

Level Progression: As above is fine but you can mix it up if you like. I chose the above order because it gets you Extra Attack+Cantrip fastest, then artificer for boosting the cantrip and 'healing' spells, and infusing your rapier, then Arcane Trickster for roguish shenanigans.

You end up maxing out at 3rd level spells only, but spell slots of a 12th level spellcaster (6 Wiz, +3 Artificer, +3 Rogue) so plenty of opportunity to upcast stuff. You miss out on one ASI for your multiclassing shenanigans.

There's some mild crossover between the rogue's cunning action and the artillerist turrets, but lots of options is better than too few. Sometimes you won't need CA, sometimes you won't need to use turret temp HP.

If you can slot in a feat, grab metamagic adept for Quicken to represent their Dualcast feature.

[RogueJK]

also I need access to some elemental magical attack cantrips as well as burning hands.

Which you already have from just 1 level of Sorcerer, so there's no need to go further into Sorcerer for those.


I have a feat metamagic adept which gives me 2 metamagic: Twin and quickcast. With level 2 sorcerer I get Font of magic which allows me to recarge my metamagic and then I have a total of 4 Metamagicpoints which can be recharged with font of magic.

I must have overlooked that in the OP. In that light, it might be worth grabbing a 2nd level of Sorcerer after Bard 6 (when Lore Bard's Magical Secrets or Swords Bard's Extra Attack come online), but even then, it's not a slam dunk. Even with 4 total Sorcery Points, you're not going to be Twinning or Quickening much, since they're each fairly expensive spells. Even with 4 points, you can only Quicken 2 spells, or Twin 4x 1st level/2x 2nd level/1x 3rd or 4th level spell.

With Metamagic Adept, it's better to pick cheaper and more niche Metamagic options like Subtle and Extend, which not only cost just 1 point apiece but also are only going to need to be used a few times per day. Trying to frequently Quicken/Twin spells in multiple combats with just 2 or 4 Sorcery Points isn't going to work out like you're hoping.

But if you truly want to salvage any significant usability from your Twin/Quicken Metamagic Adept, you've basically locked yourself into taking a 2nd level of Sorcerer. Still, it's not a great choice you've been stuck with.


Bard doesnt really get attack magic them.

Sure they do. They get access to Thunderwave, Shatter, and Synaptic Static, all of which are solid AoE damage spells. They get Dissonant Whispers and Heat Metal, which are two of the best low level single-target damage spells in the game. They get access to Animate Objects, which is potentially one of the highest damage-dealing spells in the game if you use it to make a swarm of 10x flying Tiny allies. And they get Magical Secrets (with bonus spell picks if you go Lore Bard) that let you grab whatever else you want.

And even better, Bards get access to a wide variety of spells that do even more powerful things than simply deal damage... You can be taking out entire combat encounters with spells like Hypnotic Pattern or Mass Suggestion, locking down single powerful enemies with spells like Hold Person/Monster, or greatly decreasing an entire enemy team's capabilities with spells like Slow or Confusion. Not to mention all the other debuff/control Magic Secrets pick options too.

Combat spellcasting in D&D is about more than just rolling damage dice!


The other important thing you're overlooking is that a multiclass Sorcerer/Bard with multiple levels in each is going to be a much worse caster than either a Sorcerer or a Bard, since while your class levels may stack for spell slot purposes, you're going to be loaded down with just lower level spells known. So even if you were to do something like Bard 5/Sorcerer X, it'll be Character Level 10 (Bard 5/Sorcerer 5) before you ever get a classic offensive spell like Fireball, at which point Fireball is well behind the spellcasting power curve, with a 10th level single-class caster being able to toss out much better 4th and 5th level spells and being just 1 step away from 6th level spells.

Whereas if you stick to just 1 level of Sorcerer, your Sorcerer 1/Bard X can be casting Shatter at Character Level 4, and a Sorcerer 1/Lore Bard 6 can be casting Fireball at Character Level 7.

[Flik9999]

Thanks for the explanations very helpful. Ill think about swords bard if the gm would let me have it. If not ill go lore bard.
Then at level 8 I can decide to take the 2nd level of sorc for metamagic or not.

I wonder how much behind booming blade is from 2 hits if you use it, cos my calcs say booming blade actually does more.
Can you tell me if im doing it wrong and if so what im missing.
This is at level 7 at level 11 it swings even more in favor of booming blade.
swords
2 Rapier with 18 dex: 1D8+6 x2 avg 15
lore
Booming blade: 2D8+3 +1D8+3 avg 12/19.5 with movement. This would probably need mobility feat to dissengage. The damage for greenflame blade is roughly the same but thats harder to set up.

I know magic in d&d is more than damage but red mages tend to get very little in support magic so I feel focus should be on damage spells, buffs and healing.

For later spells i was thinking something like this so my spellbook would look like this at level 7
1st: Shield, Burning Hands, Healing Word, Dissonant Whispers, Cure wounds, Charm Person or Sleep
2nd: Shatter, Aid
3rd: Slow (classic FF debuff), motivational speach

Lore: Fireball, thunderous smite or aura of vitality

[gloryblaze]

Thanks for the explanations very helpful. Ill think about swords bard if the gm would let me have it. If not ill go lore bard.
Then at level 8 I can decide to take the 2nd level of sorc for metamagic or not.

I wonder how much behind booming blade is from 2 hits if you use it, cos my calcs say booming blade actually does more.
Can you tell me if im doing it wrong and if so what im missing.
This is at level 7 at level 11 it swings even more in favor of booming blade.
swords
2 Rapier with 18 dex: 1D8+6 x2 avg 15
lore
Booming blade: 2D8+3 +1D8+3 avg 12/19.5 with movement. This would probably need mobility feat to dissengage. The damage for greenflame blade is roughly the same but thats harder to set up.

I know magic in d&d is more than damage but red mages tend to get very little in support magic so I feel focus should be on damage spells, buffs and healing.

For later spells i was thinking something like this so my spellbook would look like this at level 7
1st: Shield, Burning Hands, Healing Word, Dissonant Whispers, Cure wounds, Charm Person or Sleep
2nd: Shatter, Aid
3rd: Slow (classic FF debuff), motivational speach

Lore: Fireball, thunderous smite or aura of vitality

As you point out, the additional damage of booming blade often doesn't occur unless you invest character resources into triggering it (such as Mobile to move away after attacking, or Telekinetic to shove the opponent away after attacking). Even then, an enemy that uses ranged attacks or has reach might be perfectly content to not move and still be able to attack. So the reliability of two attacks every round vs. slightly more (some of the time) (with additional feat investment) makes the Extra Attack look better in comparison. Additionally, Swords bards can use Blade Flourish to add their Bardic Inspiration dice to their damage rolls. Assuming you bump Cha to 18 at Bard 4 (since unlike the booming blade build, you don't need to take Mobile or Telekinetic), you get 4 uses per short rest, so around 12 to 16 uses per day if your DM follows the guidelines of 6-8 encounters with 2-3 short rests per adventuring day. On any turn you use a Blade Flourish, you'll get to deal 3d8 + 6 damage if both attacks hit, or 2d8 + 3 damage if even one attack hits, and you'll also get a nice bonus like adding the Blade Flourish die to your AC. Which again makes the Swords build look better at melee fighting than the booming blade build.

Though, that's only assuming you actually want to spend a notable portion of your time fighting in melee. If you want to build the strongest possible character, going Lore and focusing on casting spells is probably the way to go, rather than trying to gish it up. But if you want to live that gish fantasy, Swords is the way to do it IMO