How the Spellplague effected the shadowfell

[Falcon X]

I’m trying to figure out what sort of things happened to the shadowfell during the Spellplague.
Does anyone have thoughts or resources on this?

More specifically I’m trying to figure out what might have happened to the gloaming city of Sphur Upra. It seems like it was completely abandoned and much of it was destroyed during the Spellplague, but it’s a mystery as to how it was destroyed.

[Xihirli]

I’d suggest asking FR Lore stuff to Afroakuma (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616081-afroakuma-s-Planar-And-Other-Oddities-Questions-Thread-VIII).

[Millstone85]

I’d suggest asking FR Lore stuff to Afroakuma (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616081-afroakuma-s-Planar-And-Other-Oddities-Questions-Thread-VIII).It says they "will actively refuse to answer questions pertaining to 4E fluff".

[Xihirli]

That would be a hiccup then.

[JackPhoenix]

Sure. There was no Shadowfell before 4e, and Spellplague was a FR excuse for edition change, so what happened was that Shadowfell was retconned into existence.

[Millstone85]

Sure. There was no Shadowfell before 4e, and Spellplague was a FR excuse for edition change, so what happened was that Shadowfell was retconned into existence.Indeed, here is the introduction of the Shadowfell in the Forgotten Realms' Campaign Guide for the fourth edition:

A gloomy echo of Toril, the Shadowfell is at once ancient and new. The dark goddess Shar reshaped what was then known as the Plane of Shadow during the years of chaos following the Spellplague. In her craft, she folded in the energy of death that didn’t make the transition to the Elemental Chaos. She renamed her creation the Shadowfell, which became its common name among mortals, though some still refer to it simply as “Shadow.”

The Shadowfell is a dim, eerie place. Where the Feywild reflects the world in breathtaking ways, the Shadowfell reveals a decaying, nightmare landscape of dull colors. A brooding half-light replaces the Feywild’s fanciful twilight, and every feature of the place seems macabre and threatening. Fields of necrotic energy, usually too weak to do more than unnerve the living, wander across the baleful shadowscape.
Now, I am unclear on how different the Shadowfell is from the old Plane of Shadow. I think it used to be that a feature like the monk's Shadow Step would be explained as entering the Plane of Shadow where one can move much faster, whereas the Shadowfell has no particular association with fast travel.

[Falcon X]

It says they "will actively refuse to answer questions pertaining to 4E fluff".
That’s annoying. I want to know about what happened to the 3.5 city for my 5e game. But the only real answer has to be Spellplague related due to the timing of the city’s fall.

I’m going to read a novel on Ikemmu (the city that grew on Sphur Upra’s ruins) and hope it gives a hint or two.

That said, this Afroakuma sounds like my kind of guy. I study Planescape, AD&D, and 3e lore as an almost daily hobby and generally set all my games in those timelines. I just happen to have to run a 5e game in it’s proper timeline 😩

[Millstone85]

I’m going to read a novel on Ikemmu (the city that grew on Sphur Upra’s ruins) and hope it gives a hint or two.That sure is dedication. In the meantime, here is what 4e says on Ikemmu / Sphur Upra:


Ramparts of Night
Shadow Abyss

Under the Hordelands and the eastern Sunrise Mountains near Thay is an immense abyss. The Ramparts of Night expanded during the Spellplague to swallow much of Earthroot under the Copper Mountains in Murghôm. No part of the abyss reaches the surface, but it is bottomless—the whole expanse connects to the Shadowfell. Creatures of shadow infest its walls, and anyone brave enough to do so can pass through to a canyon on the Shadowfell.

Outposts of free shadar-kai are common throughout the Ramparts of Night, far from Netheril and the reach of the Princes of Shade. These shadar-kai harvest worldly valuables from the Underdark. They also raid, harrying Thayan and Hordelands settlements as well as the drow of Undrek’Thoz.

Ikemmu
Shadar-Kai City; Population 8,000

The largest enclave of shadar-kai exists in this burned and broken city that they established on the edge of the Ramparts of Night. Cloakers were the settlement’s only natives, and called the place Sphur Upra (“Gloaming Home”). Much of the city is vertical. The shadar-kai use their shadow powers to more easily traverse it, while the native cloakers fly.

Half of Ikemmu exists now in the canyon that reflects the Ramparts of Night in the Shadowfell. Shadar-kai use it as a major trade point between the planes, and they even allow outlanders here. Only those approved by the authorities can pass into the Shadowfell side of the city.

Some come to Ikemmu to research its mysterious past. The shadar-kai didn’t build the city, and the architecture is like nothing seen elsewhere. Carvings remaining in the place depict delicate winged humanoids along with cloakers, and fire damage suggests the blue flames of the Spellplague. Mysterious doorlike arches graven with ritual symbols are carved into walls in one of the city’s open markets. Learned observers speculate that the former inhabitants used these doors to enter another world, perhaps with foresight of the coming Spellplague.

I also have a handful of headcanons to submit to your appreciation:

Toril is and always has been part of the Great Wheel cosmology as described in 5e. However, Toril had its own special transitive plane called the World Tree, which connected it to the outer-planar realms of Torilian deities as well as to specific inner-planar regions.
The Spellplague withered the World Tree, causing the realms of Torilian deities to be pulled out of the Outer Planes and set adrift as astral dominions. Likewise, inner-planar regions were pulled into the Elemental Chaos. Torilian scholars named their world's new relationship with the planes the World Axis, which some misinterpreted as a destruction of the Great Wheel.
The Shadowfell always existed as such but was largely unknown on Toril until the Spellplague allowed Shar to create massive connections with it.
The Shadowfell has planets, including an echo of Toril. Any large change to Toril's surface and/or depths, no matter the cause, will be reflected on its shadowy counterpart.
The Shadowfell has its own version of Wildspace, which transitions into the Negative Plane instead of the Astral.

Toril has since healed from the Spellplague and its whole planar neighborhood is back where it is supposed to be in the larger Great Wheel cosmology. The fate of the World Tree is yet unknown.

[No brains]

It's funny to think that since the Spellplague may have created the Shadowfell, by dint of uncommon definition, the title of this thread technically has correct spelling and grammar. :smallbiggrin: It's just like this xkcd comic. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/326:_Effect_an_Effect

[Falcon X]

That sure is dedication. In the meantime, here is what 4e says on Ikemmu / Sphur Upra:


I also have a handful of headcanons to submit to your appreciation:

Toril is and always has been part of the Great Wheel cosmology as described in 5e. However, Toril had its own special transitive plane called the World Tree, which connected it to the outer-planar realms of Torilian deities as well as to specific inner-planar regions.
The Spellplague withered the World Tree, causing the realms of Torilian deities to be pulled out of the Outer Planes and set adrift as astral dominions. Likewise, inner-planar regions were pulled into the Elemental Chaos. Torilian scholars named their world's new relationship with the planes the World Axis, which some misinterpreted as a destruction of the Great Wheel.
The Shadowfell always existed as such but was largely unknown on Toril until the Spellplague allowed Shar to create massive connections with it.
The Shadowfell has planets, including an echo of Toril. Any large change to Toril's surface and/or depths, no matter the cause, will be reflected on its shadowy counterpart.
The Shadowfell has its own version of Wildspace, which transitions into the Negative Plane instead of the Astral.

Toril has since healed from the Spellplague and its whole planar neighborhood is back where it is supposed to be in the larger Great Wheel cosmology. The fate of the World Tree is yet unknown.

Nice. There is also a Dungeon Magazine article on Ikemmu, but it offers precious little more insight. The book “The Unbroken Chain” has been neat so far. It really dives deep into the 4e version of Shadar-Kai, like Homeland does to Menzoberranzen drow.

Re-reading your posting makes me wonder if half of Sphur Upra fell into the Ramparts of Night. The old city was described often as being built vertically due to its inhabitants (gloamings and cloakers) being able to fly, but Ikemmu is largely flat except for a few towers. Perhaps part of the city fell in.
And, of course, all the signs of burning around the city just makes it seem like the Spellplague swept over and killed everything.

I really hate 4e for this (yet another reason). Sphur Upra was such a much more interesting city than Ikemmu. But it just doesn’t exist in 5e timeline (and in this game, I must stick to canon. I’m writing a Rage of Demons adventure path for internet praise and glory).

Also, I didn’t realize the breadth of the Shadowfell. Honestly, I just looked at it as synonymous to the plane of Shadow.
This might be a way to reconcile that there are 4 different types of Shadar-Kai throughout editions:
1. Fey
2. Humans turned by the Raven Queen
3. Humans turned by the Spellplague
4. Elves turned by the Raven Queen.
Perhaps they all exist, but from different worlds or origins.

[VladSlavhinsky]

Now, I am unclear on how different the Shadowfell is from the old Plane of Shadow. I think it used to be that a feature like the monk's Shadow Step would be explained as entering the Plane of Shadow where one can move much faster, whereas the Shadowfell has no particular association with fast travel.

Sorry for the digrissione on the topic, but I have always been convinced that shadowfell was a specific name given to the plane of shadows. So Shadowfell is NOT a plane superimposed on the material plane? (forgive me but I completely skipped the 4th edition, and even today I find fragments of lore that have been distorted and sometimes I struggle to figure it out).

[Falcon X]

Sorry for the digrissione on the topic, but I have always been convinced that shadowfell was a specific name given to the plane of shadows. So Shadowfell is NOT a plane superimposed on the material plane? (forgive me but I completely skipped the 4th edition, and even today I find fragments of lore that have been distorted and sometimes I struggle to figure it out).
I too would like clarity. My assumption was that they are the same things, but there might have been changes made to the Plane of Shadows when it was renamed due to the Spellplague or other effects.

I'm reading the 4e novel "The Unbroken Chain" right now, and it seems clear that the Shadowfell is considered a shadow and reflection of the material plane. So, I'm personally treating them as the same thing until I learn otherwise.

Reconciling edition changes is hard, but not always impossible. 4e did do some of the most radical things though, and I see why it gets the anger. So much of it seems to take interesting things and make them less interesting.

[Millstone85]

Sorry for the digrissione on the topic, but I have always been convinced that shadowfell was a specific name given to the plane of shadows.The Shadowfell is also called the Plane of Shadow, but I suspect that might be the extent of its similarity with the pre-4e Plane of Shadow.


So Shadowfell is NOT a plane superimposed on the material plane?
I too would like clarity [...] it seems clear that the Shadowfell is considered a shadow and reflection of the material plane.The plane I would most confidently call "superimposed" is the Border Ethereal. It has you keep a defined position on the Material (or some other plane with its own distinct ethereal border) where creatures with truesight can see you, even though you are technically in a different space altogether. Also, things like a force cage can affect both planes simultaneously.

Meanwhile, the Feywild and the Shadowfell are called echoes, shadows or reflections of the Material because they have their own versions of every place found on it. For example:
Where a volcano stands in the Material Plane, a mountain topped with skyscraper-sized crystals that glow with internal fire towers in the Feywild, and a jagged rock outcropping resembling a skull marks the spot on the Shadowfell.

This can also be thought of as a superimposition, but if so it feels much more theoretical. Indeed, truesight doesn't let you take a look at the crystal mountain or the bonelike rock while you stand on the volcano, and no spell you cast is likely to affect creatures there. Perhaps it is different in the presence of a fey crossing or shadow crossing, with the city of Sphur Upra being an example of the latter, but then I don't know the specifics.

Anyhow, I am under the impression that the pre-4e Plane of Shadow was much more akin to the Border Ethereal, only with less emphasis on spying and more on fast travel. But perhaps I am completely wrong about this.

Edit: I am taking a look at the 3e Manual of the Planes and I am surprised with how part of its description of the Plane of Shadow actually matches with the 4e/5e Shadowfell:
The Plane of Shadow is a world of black and white; color itself has been bleached from the environment. It otherwise appears similar (but not exactly identical) to the Material Plane. The sky above, for example, is always a black vault with neither sun nor stars. Landmarks from the Material Plane are recognizable on the Plane of Shadow, but they are twisted, warped things—diminished reflections of what can be found on the Material Plane. Despite the lack of light sources, various plants, animals, and humanoids call the Plane of Shadow home.
When moving through the Plane of Shadow, travelers see shadowy landscapes that are similar to, though not exactly alike, the corresponding terrain on the Material Plane. Rivers may be changed or absent, for example, and castles present, ruined, or altered entirely. But the basic terrain type (marsh, hills, and mountains) remains the same.

On the other hand, I was right to expect the Plane of Shadow being lengthily presented as a way to travel faster. Here is a small excerpt:
Most Material creatures on the Plane of Shadow use the shadow walk spell. With this spell, the caster moves into the Plane of Shadow, moves in a particular direction for a certain amount of time, and then steps back into the Material Plane. Cardinal directions (north, south, east, and west) are the same on the Plane of Shadow and the Material Plane, but distances are deceptive. Travelers simply move faster on the Plane of Shadow than on the Material Plane. For every 10 minutes moving in a particular direction, someone using shadow walk covers seven miles in the same direction on the Material Plane. The travel speed is the same regardless of the speed of the creature using shadow walk. Whether a wizard is mounted, on foot, or flying, she covers the same distance in the same time. To maintain the pace, the traveler need only keep moving.

The Plane of Shadow is even listed as a transitive plane, alongside the Ethereal and the Astral, which is definitely not how 4e and 5e treat the Shadowfell. Still, I suppose the shadow walk spell could be imported into those editions nonetheless.

3e also goes on how the Plane of Shadow can be used to reach other material worlds, some of them surrounded by entirely different planes:
If seeking an alternate Material Plane, the traveler forces herself out of the areas that correspond to the original Material Plane. The terrain grows extreme: Trees are more massive than anything on the Material Plane, mountains become clifflike barriers, and rivers are raging torrents. It takes 1d4 hours of constant travel to reach the spot on the alternate Material Plane that corresponds to the departure point on the original Material Plane. At this point, the traveler can open a new portal and enter the alternate Material Plane.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/b0Ors8kYeQx2fkmg9y05TfhLCcjS3MWQNTPKp_W5VBQB2d-04d2vyIVxJjP7PCrtwmrBCFYUGN40CTQbH0DY_ay0UxJFgKGFH 1CI1CIAW38NQj7hnMvJII1VLjoeOm1aKnRjb6C0DUogFb-9ygt3YCIv1VKyw0dH1_ZqHpbWxMxMRnNPl1sBrZBU

I think the left of the picture is meant to be Toril and its then World Tree cosmology, while Oerth and the Great Wheel have the honor of being labelled as the standard Material Plane and D&D cosmology.

All in all, very interesting. But now I can safely say that I haven't got a clue what the Spellplague is supposed to have looked like from the Shadow, fell or otherwise. :smallsigh: