Need the Tempest Cleric reskinned for COLD damage

[CTurbo]

I have some ideas, but I feel like maybe I'm going overboard a little, and I need help with the spell list.

I'm trading both Thunder and Lightning for Cold damage, and since Cold is probably the second worse damage type due to the number of monsters resistant or immune, I definitely wanted have a feature that acts like the Elemental Adept feat. I basically stole the Pyromancer Sorcerer's 6th and 18th level features trading fire for cold.

Bonus Proficiencies
At 1st level, you gain proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor.
In addition, you choose between Frostbite or Ray of Frost and it does not count against the number of Cleric cantrips you know.

Wrath of the Storm
Also at 1st level, you can thunderously rebuke attackers. When a creature within 5 feet of you that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to cause the creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 2d8 cold damage on a failed saving throw, and half as much damage on a successful one.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to wield the power of the storm with unchecked ferocity.

When you roll cold damage, you can use your Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, instead of rolling.

Ice In the Veins
At 6th level, you gain resistance to cold damage. In addition, spells you cast ignore resistance to cold damage.

Divine Strike
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon strikes with divine energy. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 cold damage to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.

Icey Soul
At 18th level, you gain immunity to cold damage. In addition, any spell or effect you create ignores resistance to cold damage and treats immunity to cold damage as resistance to fire damage.


When it comes to the spell list, I'm really trying to not have to reskin a damage spell to cold, but can if necessary. There aren't any good cold damage spells at 3rd level and I'm sad that Wall of Ice is a 6th level spell so I don't know how to get it on the list. I also wouldn't mind having Armor of Agathys, but again, I don't want to overdo it.

1st level spells. I guess I can keep Fog Cloud, but I can't decide between Ice Knife and Frost Fingers. I like Ice Knife, but Frost Fingers is nearly a clone of Thunderwave. I didn't want to double down on cold and take both, but I could I guess.

2nd level spells. This is pretty easy as I can keep Gust of Wind and I really like Rime's Binding Ice. Not much else to choose from without reskinning spells. I thought about Cold Shatter and just having it deal cold instead of thunder. I also think Flame Blade, but ice would be cool.

3rd level spells. This is where I'm stuck as there aren't any good staple 3rd level cold spells. Sleet Storm can stay, but I don't know what else to take. Hunger of Hadar maybe?

4th level spells. Ice Storm and Control Water can stay as they're both fitting options.

5th level spells. Cone of Cold obviously, but I don't know what else to take. I wish I could add Wall of Ice.


What do yall think? Too strong? Too much cold? What are some good 3rd and 5th level spell options? Any good options for reskinning? Didn't really want to take Fireball and make it Coldball as that seems almost too strong when compared to all the other cold spells. I'm down for more utility.

[gloryblaze]

In terms of features and spells, I have some flavor questions: is this meant to be a domain for a god of winter, a god of ice, a general storm god still but with a leaning towards blizzards over lightning storms? For instance, insect storm on the original Tempest Domain is (probably) a reference to Biblical plagues of locusts, so if the god this domain is for is still a god of storms and not winter or ice, you could honestly probably leave it. On the other hand, if this is a god of winter, you can incorporate other winter imagery, like perhaps putting in darkness since winter is known for having the shortest days of the year.

3rd level spell ideas: slow, tidal wave, wall of water, water walk, wind wall

Slow fits a "winter cleric" or a generic "ice cleric," since it can represent either lethargy or literal frost riming someone and slowing them down. Tidal wave and wall of water can be used if this is a god of winter storms. Water walk also, or it could even be flavored as momentarily freezing over the surface of liquid as you stride across it for a more generic ice cleric. Wind wall works for a storm or winter god, and it is in line with gust of wind flavor-wise, which was a spell you kept.

5th level spell ideas: antilife shell, control winds, hold monster, maelstrom

Antilife shell for a winter god (winter is associated with death), control winds is in line with gust of wind, hold monster can be flavored as holding in place with ice, maelstrom if its a storm god

I like the 6th-level feature swap, but I would probably leave the 17th-level feature in place if this is a god of winter storms, since there's still at least one wind spell on the domain list (gust of wind) and potentially up to three, if you pick wind wall and control winds.

[stoutstien]

I think it depends on your thematic angle.

This starts to show the weaknesses of just refluffing material because while balance It's probably fine it loses something in translation. The reason why temp is Clerics get martial weapons and heavy armor is because of the iconic trope of the thunder God(s) also swinging weapons.

Winters are usually more inclined to be about constant sapping of energy, darkness, resilience, stark beauty and ruggedness. On the flip side they tend to be angled towards kindness and altruistic tendencies or cruelty which probably wraps back around to the fact that winter means work together or everybody die
(Most depictions of winter deities and cold based depiction of heroes/villains are also fairly lean which doesn't make a lot of sense but whatever)
Winter deities are also rare. Plenty of general nature or death/rebirth ones but winter is linted to one NE if I recall.

On the other hand cold related to storm or the sea is pretty prevalent. It's a little bit of a weaker connection because storms are usually associated with a plethora of factors.

So well I think you could reskin it this way wonder if working backwards from the source would net an overall better option.

[LudicSavant]

Bonus Proficiencies
At 1st level, you gain proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor.
In addition, you choose between Frostbite or Ray of Frost and it does not count against the number of Cleric cantrips you know.

This is a straight upgrade to the level 1 feature that Tempest gets. I'll note that Ray of Frost is a meaningful addition to the Cleric list because it doesn't have native access to attack-roll-based cantrips. Ray of Frost would work great with Blessed Strikes.



Wrath of the Storm
Also at 1st level, you can thunderously rebuke attackers. When a creature within 5 feet of you that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to cause the creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 2d8 cold damage on a failed saving throw, and half as much damage on a successful one.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to wield the power of the storm with unchecked ferocity.

When you roll cold damage, you can use your Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, instead of rolling.

Ice In the Veins
At 6th level, you gain resistance to cold damage. In addition, spells you cast ignore resistance to cold damage.

Divine Strike
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon strikes with divine energy. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 cold damage to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.

Icey Soul
At 18th level, you gain immunity to cold damage. In addition, any spell or effect you create ignores resistance to cold damage and treats immunity to cold damage as resistance to fire damage.


When it comes to the spell list, I'm really trying to not have to reskin a damage spell to cold, but can if necessary. There aren't any good cold damage spells at 3rd level and I'm sad that Wall of Ice is a 6th level spell so I don't know how to get it on the list. I also wouldn't mind having Armor of Agathys, but again, I don't want to overdo it.

1st level spells. I guess I can keep Fog Cloud, but I can't decide between Ice Knife and Frost Fingers. I like Ice Knife, but Frost Fingers is nearly a clone of Thunderwave. I didn't want to double down on cold and take both, but I could I guess.

2nd level spells. This is pretty easy as I can keep Gust of Wind and I really like Rime's Binding Ice. Not much else to choose from without reskinning spells. I thought about Cold Shatter and just having it deal cold instead of thunder. I also think Flame Blade, but ice would be cool.

3rd level spells. This is where I'm stuck as there aren't any good staple 3rd level cold spells. Sleet Storm can stay, but I don't know what else to take. Hunger of Hadar maybe?

4th level spells. Ice Storm and Control Water can stay as they're both fitting options.

5th level spells. Cone of Cold obviously, but I don't know what else to take. I wish I could add Wall of Ice.


What do yall think? Too strong? Too much cold? What are some good 3rd and 5th level spell options? Any good options for reskinning? Didn't really want to take Fireball and make it Coldball as that seems almost too strong when compared to all the other cold spells. I'm down for more utility.

Balance-wise, this class looks a bit stronger to me than the Tempest Cleric, mostly because the spell list is more synergistic.

One of the things about Tempest is that its CD is heavily mitigated by the fact that it doesn't actually have the juicy lightning damage spells on its list -- you're not going to be maximizing any Lightning Bolts or Chain Lightnings or whatever, which means that in practice a maximized Tempest blast is going to be using upcast spells that only scale well enough for them to be around as good as stuff that real specialist blasters do normally (example: a Tempest maximizing a level 3 slot only does about as much damage as a vanilla fireball, in a smaller AoE). If you want to stay in line with the balance point of the original Tempest Cleric, you want to be careful about throwing the best-scaling cold blasts in there, especially if it's overcoming all resistances and immunity to cold.

[Nidgit]

Level 1: The bonus cantrip is too much. You could probably keep thunder damage as another option for the reaction damage but I would definitely change the save to Con either way.

Level 6: A feat in place of a class feature is very strong. Personally I don't think this really needs to be changed, but if you want to buff it you could add that the target's speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn. If you're really interested in cold resistance, stealing from Forge Domain for cold resistance and +1 AC in medium or heavy armor would be fine too.

Level 17: Could be fine as is if you go the earlier resistance route. As a similar option, you could go for cold immunity and a 10-foot aura of cold resistance to allies if you wanted to go the "band together to weather the cold" route. A different route could be to gain both cold and fire damage resistance and 1d4(?) automatic piercing/cold retaliation damage when you're hit by nonmagical BPS. I'm imagining icicle armor, or maybe such a powerfully cold person that it hurts to touch like with dry ice.

Spells: As someone else pointed out, the Tempest Cleric specifically doesn't get the most synergistic spells for the CD damage maximizer. With that in mind, I would go:

1st Level: Fog Cloud and Ice Knife

2nd Level: Gust of Wind and Rime's Binding Ice

3rd Level: Sleet Storm and Leomund's Tiny Hut (it's an igloo!). Water Walk could work too.

4th Level: Ice Storm and Control Water/Otiluke's Resilient Sphere

5th Level: Hold Monster and Animate Objects

I'm not terribly pleased with the 5th level spell options. Maximized Cone of Cold would be extremely strong, particularly if it ignores resistance, and a Tempest Cleric can't get anything that powerful without building specifically for it. I went with Animate Objects because of Frosty the Snowman but I could easily see an argument for Conjure Elemental, Summon Celestial, Steel Wind Strike, or even Mislead or Scrying.

[RogueJK]

Too much cold?

I think so. Consider that the similar published domains (Tempest and Zeal) both include two different damage types - Lighting/Fire plus Thunder. So consider something like Cold and Thunder. This could also help with your spell picks, as it would bring in things like Thunder Step and Destructive Wave as additional 3rd and 5th level options. You could then bring back some of the lower level options like Thunderwave/Shatter to help balance out the split between the two elements.

Cold and Necrotic is also potentially an option, if it's an evil-aligned cold deity like Auril. This would bring in 3rd and 5th level spells like Destructive Wave, Vampiric Touch, Negative Energy Flood, or potentially even Summon Undead, and you could swap in some lower level options like Arms of Hadar.

These dual elements would also lessen the need to beef up the subclass with the ability to ignore Cold resistance/immunity, since it isn't relying solely on Cold damage. Neither Tempest nor Zeal get anything like that, and don't need it. A PC could still pursue the Elemental Adept: Cold feat if they wanted that, but it's a decent power bump to just hand those kinds of abilities to them on top of everything else the other subclasses get.


What are some good 3rd and 5th level spell options?

If you choose not to go with the above suggestion, and stick strictly to cold, then perhaps something like Slow (bogged down by icy muscles and shivering) or Gaseous Form (icy wind that seeps through the cracks) at 3rd, and Maelstrom (swirling mass of near-freezing arctic water) or Summon Draconic Spirit (limited to Cold subtype) at 5th.

Any of those would be thematically appropriate for the domain, although none of these could specifically be used with Destructive Wrath. But that lessened blasting ability is potentially more than counterbalanced by the fact that they have the ability to maximize one of the best blasting spells in the game: Cone of Cold. (I agree with Ludic that this might be a bit too much, and you should consider toning it down to just second-tier blasting spells...)

[da newt]

Have a look at light domain too for balance - it get's some really good spells, but no bypass resistance / max damage CD. You could go that route OR tone down the spell list and keep the tempest like boons.

I'd scale back the blasting a little (offensive clerics go against my head canon), and go with other cold based spells for the list that aren't primary damage. Armor of Agathys could be very thematic and synergistic. Hunger is a great spell, but I don't think its a great match for this theme. Cone of Cold would be too OP with max damage CD, so I'd swap it w/ wall of ice. Ice storm and sleet storm are still perfectly themed.

Other spells could also be reskinned if it suits you - spike growth w/ ice shards, grease = icy, etc.

[RogueJK]

Cone of Cold would be too OP with max damage CD, so I'd swap it w/ wall of ice.

Unfortunately, unlike most of the other Wall of X spells, Wall of Ice is a 6th level spell.

[J-H]

Rime's Binding Ice is a bit overtuned and may not be accepted at every table (like mine). I wouldn't put it on a cleric domain list and expect to have it without discussing with the DM.
You might try Snowball Swarm or Dragon's Breath (cold only).

At 3rd level, Spirit Shroud can do cold damage.
Fire Shield (cold) may also be an alternative option for 4th level.
For 5th level, consider Hold Monster as "freezing" enemies in place.

[da newt]

Unfortunately, unlike most of the other Wall of X spells, Wall of Ice is a 6th level spell.

True, but if we are homebrewing already - why does that matter?

[Kane0]

-Snip-


I'd cut it back just a touch, but you're on the right track.

Level 1: Bonus cantrip (ditch heavy armor prof) and the reaction 2d8 cold damage (Con save half)
Level 2: Channel when you cast a spell from your domain list to upcast 1 spell level
Level 6: You gain cold resistance and your attacks/spells ignore cold resistance
Level 8: Your attacks, damaging spells and level 1 feature deal an additional 1d8 cold damage, 2d8 at level 14
Level 17: You gain cold immunity, and your channel upcasts 2 spell levels

Bonus spells:
Armor of Agathys, Ice Knife
Gust of Wind, Snowball Swarm
Sleet Storm, Wall of Water (you can freeze it)
Control Water, Ice Storm
Cone of Cold, Maelstrom

[CTurbo]

Ok there is some good feedback in there so thanks for that. It's too much to try to quote everybody so I'll just do my best to hit on all the topics in no particular order.

I did consider sticking with 2 different damage types and that may still be the best idea. Cold and Thunder could work. I'd also considered Cold and Necrotic. It's synergizes with Spirit Guardians and even Destructive Wave already.

I hadn't put much thought into the deity options as I wanted to keep that open for interpretation.

I know it's an upgrade to the already great Tempest and I probably need to scale back some. I do want to keep the bonus cantrip and if trading heavy armor prof for that needs to happen, then ok. It always irked me that the Tempest didn't get access to more Lightning stuff. I'm assuming the 6th level Thunderous Strike ability is probably the main reason why. Lightning Lure would be wonky pushing AND pulling an enemy hit with it 10ft and honestly Shocking Grasp would get a huge bump in effectiveness if it could push an enemy away 10ft and still also not get a reaction that round.

I think the biggest issue here is I made the spell list too strong. I can't argue that Cone of Cold is almost certainly too strong in this kit. Rime's Binding Ice is an upgrade over Shatter too despite being the same spell level and dealing identical damage.

I'm starting to think that maybe I should keep the spell list as-is and just reskin them to cold.

1st level: Cold Thunderwave

2nd level: Cold Shatter

3rd level: Call Snowball(lol)

5th level: Destructive Wave..... but COLD lol



It's boring, but would that be better balanced?

Would the 6th and 17th resistance/immunity features still make this too strong?

What if I put back the Tempest's 6th level Thunderous Strike back but instead of pushing the enemy back 10ft, it slowed the enemy by 10ft? That's already what Ray of Frost does so it probably shouldn't be an option for a bonus cantrip in this case.

Then I don't know what to do with level 17. That's too high a level to offer Cold resistance and I don't want to offer Cold immunity here without having first offered Cold resistance at an earlier level. It's also too high a level to suddenly have your cold damage start bypassing enemies' cold resistance.

I really liked the 6th and 17th features from the Pyro Sorcerer though.

I could just copy the Forge's 6th and 17th level stuff but with Cold though as somebody mentioned above.

I want it to be relatively balanced of course, but I don't mind it being a bit strong as some subclasses are going to be stronger than others anyway.

[Kane0]

-Snip-

1. I wouldn't worry about going all in on cold and nothing else, the Cleric list already has bangers like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians for circumstances where Cold isn't going to work (and you bypass resistance by the time you hit your stride anyways, so you're only talking about immunity)

2. You have much more leeway for stronger spells without reskinning if you change the channel feature, I made one suggestion above. A little extra damage like 1-2 dice or +Cleric level would still feel great to use without breaking the expected math as hard as auto-maxxing.

3. Don't stress too much over the finer details, anyone operating with homebrew should be aware things are subject to change (not during the session, after the session!) and like with any game the DM can fine-tune other circumstances to suit that particular game as long as it's within the general 5e balance window (which is pretty generous).

[CTurbo]

I'd cut it back just a touch, but you're on the right track.

Level 1: Bonus cantrip (ditch heavy armor prof) and the reaction 2d8 cold damage (Con save half)
Level 2: Channel when you cast a spell from your domain list to upcast 1 spell level
Level 6: You gain cold resistance and your attacks/spells ignore cold resistance
Level 8: Your attacks, damaging spells and level 1 feature deal an additional 1d8 cold damage, 2d8 at level 14
Level 17: You gain cold immunity, and your channel upcasts 2 spell levels

Bonus spells:
Armor of Agathys, Ice Knife
Gust of Wind, Snowball Swarm
Sleet Storm, Wall of Water (you can freeze it)
Control Water, Ice Storm
Cone of Cold, Maelstrom


1. I wouldn't worry about going all in on cold and nothing else, the Cleric list already has bangers like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians for circumstances where Cold isn't going to work (and you bypass resistance by the time you hit your stride anyways, so you're only talking about immunity)

2. You have much more leeway for stronger spells without reskinning if you change the channel feature, I made one suggestion above. A little extra damage like 1-2 dice or +Cleric level would still feel great to use without breaking the expected math as hard as auto-maxxing.

3. Don't stress too much over the finer details, anyone operating with homebrew should be aware things are subject to change (not during the session, after the session!) and like with any game the DM can fine-tune other circumstances to suit that particular game as long as it's within the general 5e balance window (which is pretty generous).

I don't want to get rid of Wrath of the Storm and Destructive Wrath as then it wouldn't be a Tempest anymore. Those are my 2 favorite features from the class.

I like your idea of upcasting domain spells though and will definitely save that for the future.

[Kane0]

I don't want to get rid of Wrath of the Storm and Destructive Wrath as then it wouldn't be a Tempest anymore. Those are my 2 favorite features from the class.

I like your idea of upcasting domain spells though and will definitely save that for the future.

And that should be fine to keep them, though id swap Wrath of the Storm to a con save ala Frostbite. Snowball swarm, ice knife, cone of cold and ice storm should be fine to use it with, though as others have mentioned i'd shy away from binding ice.

[CTurbo]

And that should be fine to keep them, though id swap Wrath of the Storm to a con save ala Frostbite. Snowball swarm, ice knife, cone of cold and ice storm should be fine to use it with, though as others have mentioned i'd shy away from binding ice.

I agree that Rime's Binding Ice is a little overpowered, but Snowball Swarm is most definitely underpowered unless there is something about it that I'm missing. It's inferior to upcasting Ice Knife in every way except range.

2nd level Snowball Swarm: 90ft range, Dex save, and 3d6 cold damage in a 5ft radius
2nd level Ice Knife: 60ft range, Dex save, 1d10 piercing damage AND 3d6 cold damage in a 5ft radius

[RogueJK]

I agree that Rime's Binding Ice is a little overpowered, but Snowball Swarm is most definitely underpowered unless there is something about it that I'm missing. It's inferior to upcasting Ice Knife in every way except range.

2nd level Snowball Swarm: 90ft range, Dex save, and 3d6 cold damage in a 5ft radius
2nd level Ice Knife: 60ft range, Dex save, 1d10 piercing damage AND 3d6 cold damage in a 5ft radius

Agreed. Also note that these two 5' radii are not equal.

Snowball Swarm is a 5' radius sphere, so it covers a 10x10 area. (2 square by 2 squares)

Whereas Ice Knife hits additional creatures within 5' of the initial target, so covers a 15x15 area on a Tiny/Small/Medium creature. (3 square by 3 squares, with the initial target in the center square.)

And depending on your DM, Ice Knife can affect an even larger area if you target a Large+ creature, as there are even more squares within 5' of a big creature that takes up more than 1 square.

[CTurbo]

Agreed. Also note that these two 5' radii are not equal.

Snowball Swarm is a 5' radius sphere, so it covers a 10x10 area. (2 square by 2 squares)

Whereas Ice Knife hits creatures within 5' of initial target, so covers a 15x15 area on a Tiny/Small/Medium creature. (3 square by 3 squares, with the initial target in the center square.)

And depending on your DM, Ice Knife can affect an even larger area if you target a Large+ creature, as there are more squares within 5' of a big creature that takes up more than 1 square.

That's even worse lol

[Kane0]

Ice knife is save for none, snowball swarm is save for half.
But hey, not every spell can be top tier.

[CTurbo]

Ice knife is save for none, snowball swarm is save for half.
But hey, not every spell can be top tier.

Ah there it is. I missed that and that explains it. I still think it's weak though. Should at the very least be a 15x15 cube if not 20x20.

[Arkhios]

Random thought:

Since Cold is... you know, cold, as in freezing, slowing you down, possibly even preventing you to move or act at all. I would think that at least one of the Domain's features should have something to do with the Stunned and/or Restrained conditions. Either granting immunity to the cleric or a spell or other effect that deals cold damage causing the target to become stunned and/or restrained as well.