How to make a town very Knight-y?

[HoboKnight]

Hey guys,
my party is soon to visit https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Iriaebor. I'd like it to stand out as a very knight-y city. Knights, honor, chivalry and a lot of trade.
How could I reflect that? How is city different because of this? Maybe I can create some random events that reflect that?

I have good ideas about more standard Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter, but here I'd really appreciate some helpful creativity :)

[Dienekes]

Have various knightly orders present, each of which almost acting like you'd think guilds would act. The knightly orders should run various aspects of the city, some securing the roads leading into the city by simply riding up and down them, and occasionally weeding out bandits. Others should run charities, often skewed a bit toward noble rights, but occasionally for things like churches that also offer medicinal services, protecting widows, and that sort of thing. Individual knights from any of the orders should be placed in particularly high positions of political and social power. Judges, administrators, leaders of the city watch, diplomats, and even some bureaucrats should frequently knighted.

Remember to think of honor less as a personal quality and more as something that is presented to others. A knight is honorable because others show them respect for their actions. If someone shows disrespect they are impugning a knight's honor. If the person being disrespectful is higher on the social ladder, they may get away with it. Moreso if it's in private. But public facing signs of disrespect should be a bit more limited, and met harshly when they do happen.

To the knight they are strictly better than the townsfolk and the peasant. This doesn't necessarily mean they are vindictive, you can find knights treating the people beneath them quite well if you look for it. Some go to great lengths to protect them, as that is considered part of the responsibility that comes with their privilege. But not all will care equally about that. But most should all recognize how they are simply superior to the common people.

[Dungeon-noob]

The design of the living space should reflect the influence of these local dominant social groups. Have the more important or knight-frequented streets have clear horse lanes. Have extra stables at a lot of shops for them to park their horses at. Have more high end shops have servants to wipe of the dirt of their clothes and shoes near the entrance. Have shopkeepers have unusual things available to cater to the rich nobles, like a tailor offering wine during measuring sessions. Separate blacksmiths for more expensive work? You definitely want to have gates within the city for the noble districts, with fancy stone houses inside those.

[HoboKnight]

Great general descriptions. I have 2 more questions:
- how would this affect trade/shops, etc.
- what random events could I toss at my players, visiting town, to make things look a bit within given frames?

thanks!

[Mastikator]

Brainstorming time

Ok knights:
Knights ride horses. So you'll need lots of horses. Horses need pastures so lots of pastures.
They also need iron, that can be solved with trade, but there should be iron mines, iron can be easily found in swamps. So you want swamps, or maybe mountains. Dwarves are big iron miners and prolific traders (but not prolific trade center owners)


Ok trade:
Trade happens when a town or city is convenient place trade, IE lots of roads or water. IMO both are better.

So where's what I suggest: a town on the side of a big river that meets the ocean, the town also controls a large bridge across the river and roads on both sides of the river. This town needs to have mining towns at the opposite ends of those roads.
The town is surrounded by steppe lands in all directions, open plains basically.

Roads with trade goods create opportunity for highwaymen to steal. This creates a need for armed protection. Men with horses and steel = knights.

What separates the knights from mercenaries? The knights do not work for the merchants who are in charge of trade. They are sworn to the king of the town/city state to uphold the law, the city imposes taxes on trade to fund the knights. Perhaps they can have a history of being horse riding warriors and over time trade become more prevalent and only then did they acquire enough steel to become proper knights.
Tradition and history is important in chivalry, a code of conduct that has stood the test of time.

I hope that gives you something @HoboKnight.

[Kane0]

Also a big emphasis placed on squires and pages running around town doing things the knights themselves wouldnt be, so even if you arent directly exposed to their presense it's still felt.

[Dienekes]

Great general descriptions. I have 2 more questions:
- how would this affect trade/shops, etc.
- what random events could I toss at my players, visiting town, to make things look a bit within given frames?

thanks!

Trade/Shops: I'm not certain that it would, particularly. At least not extensively. There will still be rich and poor segments and shops that cater to either, as you'll find in more merchant focused cities. The difference between the incredibly wealthy merchant, the aristocrat, and the high wealth knightly family aren't really so different when it comes to the economics of catering to them. The wealthier places should cater to them, likely show signs of knightly heraldry to those who are common patrons of the establishment. But that's not so different from other cultures really.

You may make a case for certain knightly supporting trades being more important. Such as armorsmiths or horse training. But often horse training was one of those services that knightly orders would take care of within themselves. It's a bit different training a horse to ride around town or pull a cart than it is to get them to charge at enemies. And as for armorsmiths it's somewhat true that they were favored in locations that at least had or traded with knights. But not necessarily knight dominated.

Events: Well, the culture will try to present its leaders in the best light, and honor what they believe are their highest qualities. Parades that give the knights a chance to preen before the crowd and show off their colors and visual splendor should be common.

The chance to hook up with a knight should be seen as a viable tactic for the underclass to gain wealth and privileges. So showing people throw themselves at passing knights shouldn't be out of the question.

Celebrations of the city should themselves become celebrations of the perceived virtues of being a knight. Tournaments, melees, anything to celebrate martial prowess. These can be the more formalized versions that we regularly see in fiction. Or you can draw inspiration from the earlier tournament battles which were more common in the early part of the high medieval period, where the lords would essentially clear out whole segments of the city to engage in a grand mock battle. Or they could take it outside the city limits if they didn't feel like messing up their own city.

There is also duels that could break out. Now, how you want to go with this has a lot of wiggle room. There's a wide range where dueling could be just until first blood (though even with those rules death is a real possibility), often very small events that broke out because of that whole impugning honor thing. Or they could scale up to rather large events that a good portion of city might show up to watch. That latter kind is pretty rare all things considered.

Now, this emphasis on presenting honor outwardly and defending it violently has parallels throughout the world that have martial traditions. How much you want to emphasize that is up to you. I think it's somewhat important to note that for the High Medieval Period where what we think of as knights had quite a bit of power, they also had religious, social, and political restrictions placed upon them that did limit their interactions at least a little bit. But if your setting has different kinds of restrictions, you can look to the samurai if you want to go even harder on this. Where we have records for duels to the death breaking out because people accidentally touched each other as they walked past.

You don't have to go that hard, most societies didn't. But there should probably still be the need to give your knights a bit of a wide berth. It might be interesting to have your players get shuffled off to the side of a street because a knight and their entourage happen to be coming down the road. That might be enough, or if there are harsher social codes, maybe it will be expected that the players have to bow their heads. This would all be based on the social norms of the culture itself, and isn't necessarily what happened in all knightly cities.

[Unoriginal]

Hey guys,
my party is soon to visit https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Iriaebor. I'd like it to stand out as a very knight-y city. Knights, honor, chivalry and a lot of trade.


Great general descriptions. I have 2 more questions:
- how would this affect trade/shops, etc.

A knightly town would likely not have a lot of trade.

The reason is because of what a knight is.

A knight, if we simplify the core of a concept that went through an enormous lot of variations through the centuries and cultures, is someone who is granted some kind of privilege due to birth or a ruler's will, in exchange of providing support to their hierarchical superiors, originally of the military kind.

Such privileges usually included being fed and having your war-required equipment kept up to snuff during peacetime, where you would have less opportunities to get money, as knights were not guaranteed to own land (or enough land) to have that kind of income, especially when their horses is taken into account (as keeping even one war horse in good condition is notoriously expensive).

Now, as knights are part of the social elite even when they are not part of the nobility, they were usually expected to behave according to the standards of proper conduct of the culture in question, or at least be perceived as behaving as such.

For most of the cultures and time periods where knights existed, participating in trade was *not* following the standards of proper conduct. You were supposed to have wealth through inheritance or if you made some notable deeds (in a battlefield context), not because of business skills.

[Dienekes]

A knightly town would likely not have a lot of trade.

The reason is because of what a knight is.

A knight, if we simplify the core of a concept that went through an enormous lot of variations through the centuries and cultures, is someone who is granted some kind of privilege due to birth or a ruler's will, in exchange of providing support to their hierarchical superiors, originally of the military kind.

Such privileges usually included being fed and having your war-required equipment kept up to snuff during peacetime, where you would have less opportunities to get money, as knights were not guaranteed to own land (or enough land) to have that kind of income, especially when their horses is taken into account (as keeping even one war horse in good condition is notoriously expensive).

Now, as knights are part of the social elite even when they are not part of the nobility, they were usually expected to behave according to the standards of proper conduct of the culture in question, or at least be perceived as behaving as such.

For most of the cultures and time periods where knights existed, participating in trade was *not* following the standards of proper conduct. You were supposed to have wealth through inheritance or if you made some notable deeds (in a battlefield context), not because of business skills.

Eh, the trade in a knight dominated society has far more to do with the city itself than the knighthood. Yes, knights were funded through essentially taxation on lower classes, especially agricultural. But the major trade centers in Britain, Central Europe and -during specific periods of the Crusades- the Middle East saw lots of trade and were definitely knightly dominated societies. Hell, Malta was famously controlled by knights well past the medieval period and it was one of the main trading ports of the region.

Now the knights weren't the ones who were trading, as you correctly state. And so there is a divide between the merchants and the creation of laws. But trade was still widespread and happening. Having far more to do with the placement of the city/town on trading lanes and paths, and the resources available near the settlement rather than the rulers of it.

[JackPhoenix]

Men with horses and steel = knights.

What separates the knights from mercenaries?

You're missing the noble title. That's what separate a knight from any random commoner, not a horse or armor.

Speaking of which, coats of arms, coats of arms everywhere. How else can people tell a knight from a random commoner with a horse and an armor?

[Mastikator]

You're missing the noble title. That's what separate a knight from any random commoner, not a horse or armor.

Speaking of which, coats of arms, coats of arms everywhere. How else can people tell a knight from a random commoner with a horse and an armor?

Why is the nobility title required? Since when does knighthood require a nobility title? Historically a knight is a dude in heavy armor on a horse, often ceremonially introduced into military service. At most it's a high ranking military officer who specifically is mounted.

[Unoriginal]

Eh, the trade in a knight dominated society has far more to do with the city itself than the knighthood. Yes, knights were funded through essentially taxation on lower classes, especially agricultural. But the major trade centers in Britain, Central Europe and -during specific periods of the Crusades- the Middle East saw lots of trade and were definitely knightly dominated societies. Hell, Malta was famously controlled by knights well past the medieval period and it was one of the main trading ports of the region.

Now the knights weren't the ones who were trading, as you correctly state. And so there is a divide between the merchants and the creation of laws. But trade was still widespread and happening. Having far more to do with the placement of the city/town on trading lanes and paths, and the resources available near the settlement rather than the rulers of it.

You are correct that trade is more a combination of where the settlement is relatively to the ressources available and the routes people use to transport said ressources, but what I meant is that if a town is "very knight-y" (as described by OP), then it's not going to flout it makes its wealth with trade unless we're fairly late into the cycle of the nobility thinking trade is an acceptable mean of acquiring money.


Why is the nobility title required? Since when does knighthood require a nobility title? Historically a knight is a dude in heavy armor on a horse, often ceremonially introduced into military service. At most it's a high ranking military officer who specifically is mounted.

That is not really accurate.

Historically, knighthood is a title of either gentry or nobility, depending on the system being used, starting as "you're nearly the king's peers and he trusts you to have his back in a fight" and evolving through centuries. Knights were certainly not inherently high-ranking military officers, or even military officers at all, since historically you generally lead the men you could field, and most knights couldn't.

In fact it's more accurate to say that knights were the ones fielded by more powerful individuals, most of the time.

[JackPhoenix]

Why is the nobility title required? Since when does knighthood require a nobility title? Historically a knight is a dude in heavy armor on a horse, often ceremonially introduced into military service. At most it's a high ranking military officer who specifically is mounted.

As mentioned by Unoriginal, knight is a non-hereditary title. Not every dude in heavy armor on a horse is a knight... without the title, professional warriors (mounted or not, but generally better equiped than conscripted peasants) are called men-at-arms... and not every knight was a warrior, there were many who were simply bureaucrats responsible for managing a plot of land (A village or few) for a higher-ranking noble. Knights were usually rich, so they could afford good equipment, including warhorses, but again, it wasn't a requirement, even though they've evolved from mounted warriors serving as a ruler's retinue. Unlike other noble titles, a commoner could be knighted for extraordinary deeds (saving a king's life on a battlefield, for example), but it didn't happen much.

[Mastikator]

As mentioned by Unoriginal, knight is a non-hereditary title. Not every dude in heavy armor on a horse is a knight... without the title, professional warriors (mounted or not, but generally better equiped than conscripted peasants) are called men-at-arms... and not every knight was a warrior, there were many who were simply bureaucrats responsible for managing a plot of land (A village or few) for a higher-ranking noble. Knights were usually rich, so they could afford good equipment, including warhorses, but again, it wasn't a requirement, even though they've evolved from mounted warriors serving as a ruler's retinue. Unlike other noble titles, a commoner could be knighted for extraordinary deeds (saving a king's life on a battlefield, for example), but it didn't happen much.

Usually rich. Can't have a town (not city or kingdom, TOWN) full of knights and all the knights be rich and noble. A town full of knights would have to be those rare non-rich merely-gentry level knights.

You could indeed just let the landowners all be called knights and then you have a whole class of knights, who are knights in name only. It doesn't make the town knighty though.

Edit-
Instead of saying knights have to be rich nobility because they usually were historically, instead break it down to A) what is the bare minimum of a knight, and what are added features to a knight:

A knight is at least gentry, a knight is heavily armored, a knight rides a horse, a knight is ceremonially joined to a military order OR ceremonially sworn to a noble/royal family/individual.

On top of that a knight can also be a member of nobility, a knight can be a landowner, a knight can rich. But those are all optional features. You don't NEED them, and the more knights per capita you have the fewer of those optional features you can spend without making the town ridiculously rich.
While the town is a trade town it might well be ridiculously rich, but more likely it's merely that many of those knights are rich, but fewer than you would expect from history. And I'm assuming OP is not asking for a history-simulator anyway.

The bare minimum of what you need for lots of knights in a trade town is lots of steel (to make lots of heavy armor) and lots of horses. Steel can be solved from trade, and horses need steppe land. So make the town on an ideal trade location surrounded by steppe land.

[HoboKnight]

Okay guys, a lot of good effort in this thread. I'd like to expose one more thing to the brainstorming. I always like to use this chart: https://randomtablesrpg.com/fantasy/dnd-random-city-encounters-d100/

Is there any way I could take these events and make them tell a "show don't tell" story about our knightly city? To reflect, it is knightly. Okay, I could, but I'd really appreciate some of your feedback too. These random events, only with a sprinkle of knightly in the story(does not need to include knights. Perhaps just a knight-y vibe?).

Thanks!

[Sigreid]

Everyone is probably very formally polite as any slight would result in a commoner being whipped or a duel.

[Mastikator]

Okay guys, a lot of good effort in this thread. I'd like to expose one more thing to the brainstorming. I always like to use this chart: https://randomtablesrpg.com/fantasy/dnd-random-city-encounters-d100/

Is there any way I could take these events and make them tell a "show don't tell" story about our knightly city? To reflect, it is knightly. Okay, I could, but I'd really appreciate some of your feedback too. These random events, only with a sprinkle of knightly in the story(does not need to include knights. Perhaps just a knight-y vibe?).

Thanks!

Some ideas:

Banners everywhere.
Knights regularly riding down streets.
One or many knightly orders, with their own headquarters.
Frequent jousting tournaments.
Make sure several important NPCs that the players interact with are knights, squires or pages.
The richest merchant lords's second sons should often be knights (it's a great way to give non-heirs something to do)
The local laws are very chivalrous.
Shops sell knight related paraphernalia.
Local celebrities are knights, NPCs talk about them, there are paintings and embroidered portraits of them.
Merchant lords top warriors are knights


Edit- first impressions matter and players can't see anything you aren't beaming directly into their eyeballs so actually overdo the knight thing at first so they think "wow this is a slightly knight-y town isn't it?", then scale it back at your pleasure.
By overdo I mean: the players encounter a cavalry of knights before they enter the city, and the city guards are knights, and there is a jousting festival happening as they enter, and NPCs walk up to them talking about which knight will win the joust. And then a knights talks to them about their chivalry and how it will win them the tournament. And there are several knights riding the streets.
Like really overdo it.

[solidork]

My approach would be to handle it like sports teams; different sections of the city have different groups of champions who compete against each other in regular tournaments. People have a lot of pride in their champions, are fans of specific knights, talk about rivalries, etc.

[Wintermoot]

different areas, neighborhoods and streets contain "fans" of different dueling/lancing knights. They wear colorful scarves and shirts in the heraldric colors of the knight they follow. They often pass down their alligience through generations. During festivals/tournaments, they close down shops and get rowdy in the street. If they come across a group for a different knight, they will get into street tussles.

Oh wait. I just described British Football Hooliganism. never mind.

[JackPhoenix]

different areas, neighborhoods and streets contain "fans" of different dueling/lancing knights. They wear colorful scarves and shirts in the heraldric colors of the knight they follow. They often pass down their alligience through generations. During festivals/tournaments, they close down shops and get rowdy in the street. If they come across a group for a different knight, they will get into street tussles.

Oh wait. I just described British Football Hooliganism. never mind.

Don't worry, that sort of thing existed since ancient Rome, though with chariot races.

[Hail Tempus]

I guess it depends on the purpose of the knightly town. Knightly orders were typically created for a purpose (recover the Holy Grail, convert the heathens/heretics, at swordpoint, if need be, etc.). A large number of knights wouldn't just gather in a town for no reason (especially since maintaining the horses and weapons of a knight was expensive).

So, the first step would be to figure out why a bunch of guys in plate mail riding warhorses have decided to gather in this particular town, and go from there. Their motivation would shape what the town looks like. For example, a knightly order founded for a crusade to recapture a holy land, would likely have a fortress-town as their base. Another one might have been founded to protect pilgrims, so their town would have traveler-friendly amenities.

There are plenty of historical orders you could read about, to give you a some ideas.

[Mastikator]

I guess it depends on the purpose of the knightly town. Knightly orders were typically created for a purpose (recover the Holy Grail, convert the heathens/heretics, at swordpoint, if need be, etc.). A large number of knights wouldn't just gather in a town for no reason (especially since maintaining the horses and weapons of a knight was expensive).

So, the first step would be to figure out why a bunch of guys in plate mail riding warhorses have decided to gather in this particular town, and go from there. Their motivation would shape what the town looks like. For example, a knightly order founded for a crusade to recapture a holy land, would likely have a fortress-town as their base. Another one might have been founded to protect pilgrims, so their town would have traveler-friendly amenities.

There are plenty of historical orders you could read about, to give you a some ideas.

I think, since it's also a town heavy in trade, knights can serve as an anti-highwayman measure. And since it's a rich trade town knights may serve a pragmatic function as well, to be a display of wealth and military power, to train merchant heirs in matters of combat. To be celebrities for the masses to gossip about and act as sport stars in jousting tournaments.
A town steeped in trade and knights strikes me as a heavily secular place where celebrity worship and materialism occupies the space where otherwise religion would.