Sauron Vs. The Luggage

[....]

I think the outcome is clear.

Do you?

[WalkingTarget]

I wonder if Sauron would come out (if the luggage allowed it) smelling of lavender.

[EvilElitest]

Who is the luggage?
from,
EE

[Winterwind]

One of the most dangerous beings on Discworld.

Seriously? Sauron.

From a metaplot perspective? Comedy characters have the plot so very much on their side, it's not even funny. No, that's not true, in fact, it is very funny, that's the point of it. :smallbiggrin:

[Fri]

No... WHAT is the luggage. Or which luggage do you speak of :D?

Edit: oh THAT luggage. Yes sauron would win. But not before some hilarious hijinks I suppose.

[Poison_Fish]

You know, unrelated, but why do I see Sauron getting stuck in airport security and having his ring be apprehended?

Poor first security person to take that ring. I hope they have gloves. Really really thick gloves.

[Dervag]

I call it a tie.

The Luggage is functionally immune to magic and too fierce to be slain by any monster under Sauron's command. On the other hand, the Luggage is not capable of destroying Sauron's spiritual form, nor of permanently destroying the One Ring to the best of our knowledge.

Of course, should the Luggage obtain the One Ring, all is lost for Middle-Earth. Can you imagine living in a world where the Luggage had demigodlike abilities?

[The_Snark]

You know, unrelated, but why do I see Sauron getting stuck in airport security and having his ring be apprehended?

The movie Sauron would be funnier.

"I'm sorry, sir, but you're going to have to remove that armor, and the mace is too big to be a carry-on."

I'm not sure you can factor plot out of an encounter with Discworld creatures/characters. Plot is actually an element on the Disc. And it always strikes me as incredibly funny/incongruous to take any versus fight involving a Discworld character seriously.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Luggage.

Body-checks Sauron (if he has a body), then eats the Ring. Case closed.

[Mewtarthio]

You know, unrelated, but why do I see Sauron getting stuck in airport security and having his ring be apprehended?

"Sir, there's no smoking allowed outside the designated areas. I can't let you through until you put that out."
"I am the Great Eye, lidless and wreathed in flame! These flames shall consume all who oppose me until the whole Middle-Earth is under my dominion!"
"I'm sorry, sir, but those are the rules. The laws of Middle-Earth don't have any jurisdiction here."
"The laws of man have no power over me! I am Sauron, the greatest Lieutenant of the Dark Lord Morgoth, Lord of Night, Giver of--"
"Sir, you can't just claim that without documentation to back it up. Now, if you would like to confirm your diplomatic immunity, you should go see--"
"I SEE ALL!"
"Heh. I wish I could do that. Wouldn't have to bother with all these random searches, at least..."

[Leon]

The Luggage. Sauron has no chance once the sound of many feet is heard

[Darkantra]

Definitely the Luggage. Even if the Luggage can't eat his incoporeal form it would just keep kicking and ramming the tower until it fell apart. Since it's immune to magic the ring wraiths might as well try poking it with forks.

Plus, if the Luggage managed to eat the ring, there's no way that it's getting out. If the Octavo can't than nothing can.

[Thrivol]

The Octavo wants to stay in there, I believe. Why? Because the luggage is undefeatable. The Luggage most likely cannot kill Sauron permanently, but it can destroy his physical form time after time.

[dehro]

Luggage.

Body-checks Sauron (if he has a body), then eats the Ring. Case closed.

's not a case...it's a luggage.


I counter your Vs with another one

Sauron Vs Jack Bauer..

I can totally picture agent Bauer shooting Sauron in the kneecap and shouting him in the face "WHO DO YOU WORK FOR!!???"

[Nerd-o-rama]

"Morgoth. Honestly, I can't really be working for someone more evil than that."

*pistol whip* "WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?!"

"Alright, alright, the Georgians are in on it too."

[....]

"My Lord Sauron, there is something decimating the entire western flank of our army."

"WHAT!? I SHALL SMITE IT DOWN WITH MY VAUGE BUT NO DOUBT FEARSOM POWERS-..."

Long silence..

"IS....IS THAT A CARRY ON? WHAT ARE ALL THOSE FEE- AHHHH! GET IT AWAY! GET IT AWAY!"

[Arioch]

The Octavo did get out. The luggage spat it out after a month or so. That's why, in later books, its now at the bottom of a very deep shaft. Safer than the room it was kept in before.

If the luggage was bigger, it would win. As it is, its too small to do anything much to sauron, who won't fit in its mouth (/lid).

[Eldan]

I wouldn't say size is really a factor for the luggage. And has ever been said how big Sauron really is?

[....]

I wouldn't say size is really a factor for the luggage. And has ever been said how big Sauron really is?

Sauron was a shapeshifter... or maybe a werewolf....

Or maybe a demon... maybe a sorcerer....

Speaking of that... does Tolkien ever say elves have pointy ears? And how do you get a big bull fire-demon Balrog out of the description, which is basically" fearsome, and made of shadow and flame"

Seriously, the first time I read LOTR I thought the balrog was some kind of dragon.

[Ditto]

Mewthario = Win.
Sauron does not have dental. He would get pwned by airport bureaucracy (http://www.lanceandeskimo.com/guest/sauron.shtml).

Sauron (LOTR era/default form in earlier times) had "the form of a man, though of greater stature", or something like that. I think the Luggage could easily unhinge its jaw/aperture and force down a Big Guy.

[lipe44]

Common, we all know Sauron cant lose, we just need to define lose as dying.

[WalkingTarget]

Speaking of that... does Tolkien ever say elves have pointy ears?

Not precisely, the closest we get there is that in his description of hobbits to his original publishers where he mentioned that their ears are "only slightly pointed and 'elvish'" which may or may not have a bearing on what "his" elves looked like as a publisher may have a preconceived notion of what elves look like from other stories. His description of elves is, "They are made by man in his own image and likeness..." so they look essentially human.


And how do you get a big bull fire-demon Balrog out of the description, which is basically" fearsome, and made of shadow and flame"

You don't, it's up to the individual illustrator/designer since the description is so vague (which I think is a benefit to the scene). I always preferred Alan Lee's (http://www.lordotrings.com/images/tour/balrog.jpg) version to John Howe's (http://www.geocities.com/adomf/images/SmallBalrog.jpg), but even that isn't really quite what I picture in my own head.

[Kitya]

Didn't luggage swallow a shark? if he can manage that, I think he can manage a human sized form.

[lipe44]

Didn't luggage swallow a shark? if he can manage that, I think he can manage a human sized form.

Again, Sauron was a shapeshifter...

[Ditto]

And the Luggage is a Bag of Holding. A demiplane-sized Bag of Holding. Your point?

I'm cool with saying "Eaten by the bag, from whence none (save that one lucky tool) ever return" is a loss. :smalltongue:

[Foeofthelance]

[QUOTE]"Sir, there's no smoking allowed outside the designated areas. I can't let you through until you put that out."
"I am the Great Eye, lidless and wreathed in flame! These flames shall consume all who oppose me until the whole Middle-Earth is under my dominion!"
"I'm sorry, sir, but those are the rules. The laws of Middle-Earth don't have any jurisdiction here."
"The laws of man have no power over me! I am Sauron, the greatest Lieutenant of the Dark Lord Morgoth, Lord of Night, Giver of--"
"Sir, you can't just claim that without documentation to back it up. Now, if you would like to confirm your diplomatic immunity, you should go see--"
"I SEE ALL!"
"Sam! We got another cavity check for ya!"QUOTE]

Fixed it for ya. The TSA doesn't want to do their jobs more effectively, they just want to make the rest of us suffer as they do. They are the ultimate Evil, capable of thwarting the Ancient Old Ones, Q, the Sith, and Morgoth, all while still having enough time left over for a Union mandated break... Only the Luggage can defeat them, for they cannot see through its clever disguise. Even should they "misplace" the Luggage it shall just return.

Thus--->

Luggage>TSA>Morgoth>Sauron So the Luggage beats Sauron.

(Yes, I travel a lot.)

[lipe44]

And the Luggage is a Bag of Holding. A demiplane-sized Bag of Holding. Your point?

I'm cool with saying "Eaten by the bag, from whence none (save that one lucky tool) ever return" is a loss. :smalltongue:

The entrance to it is not infinite you know, if he is big enough it cant eat him...

[Wizzardman]

The entrance to it is not infinite you know, if he is big enough it cant eat him...

Its big enough. The Luggage's mouth is always big enough to eat whatever he's trying to eat--or if he can't open wide enough, he just stomps on it until it dies.

Keep in mind, he once ate a shark that would have been at least three or four feet wide (given the size suggested in the book). That's pretty impressive for a steamer trunk.

[lipe44]

Its big enough. The Luggage's mouth is always big enough to eat whatever he's trying to eat--or if he can't open wide enough, he just stomps on it until it dies.

Keep in mind, he once ate a shark that would have been at least three or four feet wide (given the size suggested in the book). That's pretty impressive for a steamer trunk.

It can fly? It can even hit incorporeal things?

[Wizzardman]

It can fly? It can even hit incorporeal things?

You'd be amazed what the Luggage can do.

...I'm not saying yes or no, keep in mind; it just wouldn't surprise me. And it would probably surprise Sauron.

[Lilly]

Okay these threads have now just gotten really silly.

[lipe44]

You'd be amazed what the Luggage can do.

...I'm not saying yes or no, keep in mind; it just wouldn't surprise me. And it would probably surprise Sauron.

I really doubt, Sauron isnt a person that do things without thinking hard about it.

[Malik]

we all know our homicidal sapient pearwood friend would win

[Total_Viking_Power]

I won't even bother to read the thread. The Luggage wins hands down. No contest.
Sapient Pearwood FTW!

[Dervag]

The Octavo did get out. The luggage spat it out after a month or so. That's why, in later books, its now at the bottom of a very deep shaft. Safer than the room it was kept in before.

If the luggage was bigger, it would win. As it is, its too small to do anything much to sauron, who won't fit in its mouth (/lid).That just forces the Luggage to deal with him on an installment plan.


And how do you get a big bull fire-demon Balrog out of the description, which is basically" fearsome, and made of shadow and flame"Well, they needed something that was fearsome, and made out of shadow and flame. So they CGI'ed up something shadowy and on fire. They could just have well have done something dragonlike, but since Tolkein didn't explicitly describe it as dragonlike, there was no reason why they had to.

[....]

It can fly? It can even hit incorporeal things?

If Sauron is incorpereal, then he is no threat to the Luggage. the Luggage will track down the Ring and eat it, then proceed to smash Sauron's tower and kick dust over his eye.

The Luggage always unerringly knows where its owner is, why couldn't it apply the same magic to the Ring?

[lipe44]

If Sauron is incorpereal, then he is no threat to the Luggage. the Luggage will track down the Ring and eat it, then proceed to smash Sauron's tower and kick dust over his eye.

The Luggage always unerringly knows where its owner is, why couldn't it apply the same magic to the Ring?

You do realise we are taking Sauron at his full power so he would have the ring.

[....]

You do realise we are taking Sauron at his full power so he would have the ring.

Then he wouldn't be incorpereal and the Luggage would kill him.

[R.O.A.]

Luggage wins.

Why?
1. Look at his track record: There has never been an enemy too big or too fierce for luggage to handle.
2. This argument that he'd be too big to swallow is silly. He can always bite bits off.
3. I'll admitt I've never read LOTR (although I did read the Hobbit) so I'm basing this on the movie, but Sauron at full power was human, or at least humanoid right? So it doesn't matter if he's later incorperol (ahh sp!), it would make best sense to face them against each other at full power.

:smallsmile: Luggage Rocks

[lipe44]

Then he wouldn't be incorpereal and the Luggage would kill him.

Okay lets go through it again. If a Valar or a Maiar(Like Sauron) isnt using clothes(mortal bodies or just an image of it) they are impossible to see and almost impossible to detect even for the god-like elves that lived for thousands years with them.

[....]

Okay lets go through it again. If a Valar or a Maiar(Like Sauron) isnt using clothes(mortal bodies or just an image of it) they are impossible to see and almost impossible to detect even for the god-like elves that lived for thousands years with them.

Yes, great, then he can't hurt the Luggage. This is a fight, not Sauron flitting around invisible out of fear. And I don't see how a ring could fit on an incorpereal hand.

[lipe44]

Yes, great, then he can't hurt the Luggage. This is a fight, not Sauron flitting around invisible out of fear. And I don't see how a ring could fit on an incorpereal hand.

Okay ill explain since beggining as you took different points as one.

I said Sauron was a shapeshifter so he could be incorporeal.

His true form is invisible and almost impossible to see even to god-like elves who lived with the Valar.

2 different points, got it now?

Sorry if i confused you, i have few time to post sometimes and just cant resist.

[Dervag]

At best, we know that the Luggage could defeat Sauron, but possibly prove unable to kill it. That's still a pretty decisive defeat there.

[....]

Okay ill explain since beggining as you took different points as one.

I said Sauron was a shapeshifter so he could be incorporeal.

His true form is invisible and almost impossible to see even to god-like elves who lived with the Valar.

2 different points, got it now?

Sorry if i confused you, i have few time to post sometimes and just cant resist.

The Luggage could see him. The Luggage is more powerful than any sissy elf.

[mikeejimbo]

*shudders* That Luggage is too scary to lose. Even to Sauron. I might even be willing to say that it would stand a chance against Cthulhu, being almost as homicidally mad.

Come to think of it, Cthulhu should own the Luggage.

[lipe44]

The Luggage could see him. The Luggage is more powerful than any sissy elf.

Ok, is he more powerfull than Gods then? Because until to them it was very hard to see.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The Luggage never fought any gods in Discworld (as far as I recall), but I'm pretty certain it could take a few of them. Herne or Bilius, certainly. Offler, probably. He might be stopped, or at least redirected, by The Lady, Fate, or Blind Io. It also scared the hell out of everything in, well, hell while it was tromping through there.

Plus, we're talking about a trunk that can track its owner between universes. It's got some sort of special perceptive abilities.

[WalkingTarget]

Plus, we're talking about a trunk that can track its owner between universes. It's got some sort of special perceptive abilities.

Yeah, they might be invisible to things that see with eyes, but Tolkien is silent on the subject of keyholes.

[Winterwind]

One question. What, exactly, makes you all think Sauron would not just smash it with a single hit? Yes, it is sturdy, too sturdy for this to be ordinary wood, but we are talking about Sauron here...

(I avoided pointing this out initially, since I took this thread for a rather good joke, but meanwhile it seems to me as if most people here genuinely believe the Luggage would stand a ghost of a chance)

[Nerd-o-rama]

If I recall correctly, and I may be imagining things since it's a long time since I read Sourcery, the Luggage took a direct magical hit from Coin, a being who could create or remake the Universe at his whim and basically served as the Disc's version of the Anti-Christ from the Book of Revelations (Coin's not evil, but he did usher in a sort-of Apocalypse), and simply got angrier.

[Winterwind]

Damnit, and here I thought I do not forget stories. I read this book, and I completely forgot the Luggage was this powerful (yes, I remembered it took some overwhelmingly powerful creatures, but I credited this to the jokey nature of the Discworld, where people simply were more afraid of the Luggage than a normal fantasy beast would be).

Okay, I retract the previous statement, then. :smallwink:


Though I'm still not convinced the Luggage would win; frankly, the "Who could beat Sauron" thread has made me believe that the movies were the worst thing that could have happened to Sauron. In the books, Sauron is terrifying, mighty people are afraid of speaking his name, and he does not appear for a good reason. Weaker beings than him are described as horrifying; he is a true god, an incredible power radiating terror. The movies actually show him, make him engage in physical combat and be defeated in a way not exactly following the books, and suddenly everyone thinks he is a weakling. No wonder, too - when the horror is given a face, it ceases to be a horror.

Umm. Sorry for this rant; it had been building up in me for a while. :smallwink:

[SITB]

To be fair, sapient pearwood is immune to magic; and Cohen The Barbrian had wrestled The Luggage to a standstill. Ultimately, it depends if the joke meta-physics follow The Luggage or not.

And I agree with Winterwind, villians who are unspeakably evil should remain so.

[....]

Ok, is he more powerfull than Gods then? Because until to them it was very hard to see.

Sauron is a lesser god, lets call him a very powerful demon.

When the Luggage went into Hell, every single demon ran screaming from it. So yeah, I think its as powerful as the gods.

EDIT: And Cohen the Barbarian breaking even in a fight against the Luggage dosn't help much. Cohen was the best hero the Disc ever had, he nearly killed every god on the Discworld. He could've taken Aragorn, and Aragorn managed to beat Sauron.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Aragorn didn't even meet Sauron, actually. It took several of the Third Age's most powerful heroes, most of whom died as I recall, to take down Sauron, and even then he fell to a fluke. And of course, this was a "defeated but not destroyed" victory, as he was back a century or two later.

Now, of course, Sauron did get beaten permanently by two hobbits, a mutant hobbit, and a bunch of glorified decoys, but this was another fluke, and due to poor strategic thinking on his part.

[Dervag]

If I recall correctly, and I may be imagining things since it's a long time since I read Sourcery, the Luggage took a direct magical hit from Coin, a being who could create or remake the Universe at his whim and basically served as the Disc's version of the Anti-Christ from the Book of Revelations (Coin's not evil, but he did usher in a sort-of Apocalypse), and simply got angrier.It was an accident...


One question. What, exactly, makes you all think Sauron would not just smash it with a single hit? Yes, it is sturdy, too sturdy for this to be ordinary wood, but we are talking about Sauron here...We're talking about a being with combat reflexes and toughness great enough that it can grab the scythe of Death, the one so sharp it can cut the soul from the body and slice air molecules in half, and bind said scythe between its 'body' and its lid.

(The Light Fantastic).

It can and has battered through stone walls, and on one occasion through the diamond tooth of a mountain-sized troll.

[Winterwind]

We're talking about a being with combat reflexes and toughness great enough that it can grab the scythe of Death, the one so sharp it can cut the soul from the body and slice air molecules in half, and bind said scythe between its 'body' and its lid.

(The Light Fantastic).

It can and has battered through stone walls, and on one occasion through the diamond tooth of a mountain-sized troll.Okay, okay, I concede the point, the Luggage wins :smallwink: . Seems my Discworld reading is in dire need of a refreshment though. :smallannoyed:

[lipe44]

Sauron is a lesser god, lets call him a very powerful demon.

When the Luggage went into Hell, every single demon ran screaming from it. So yeah, I think its as powerful as the gods.

EDIT: And Cohen the Barbarian breaking even in a fight against the Luggage dosn't help much. Cohen was the best hero the Disc ever had, he nearly killed every god on the Discworld. He could've taken Aragorn, and Aragorn managed to beat Sauron.

Lesser god... Demon... :smallconfused: Wait now you are confusing me, how they are even remotely the same?

These "demons" were impossible to kill? They have faced beings that can raise mountains? I think not.

I see, Aragorn managed to beat Sauron without the ring in a mind conflict through a palantir that Aragorn had the right to use(It counts a lot in Tolkien books). Yeah pretty much the same.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, that's hardly the same thing as physical combat. Now, a contest of wills between Sauron and the Luggage...that's a tough call. If there's one thing the Luggage does even better than physical combat and intimidation, it's sheer bloody-mindedness. Plus, it's a sapient trunk. That's going to confuse even Sauron for a second or two when he tries to bend it to his will.

[lipe44]

Well, that's hardly the same thing as physical combat. Now, a contest of wills between Sauron and the Luggage...that's a tough call. If there's one thing the Luggage does even better than physical combat and intimidation, it's sheer bloody-mindedness. Plus, it's a sapient trunk. That's going to confuse even Sauron for a second or two when he tries to bend it to his will.

I dont know, i can just see Sauron throwing a guy and saying "Lug take"... :smallbiggrin: