Serenity - So I finally got around to watching it...[SPOILERS}

[Tom_Violence]

Took me a while, I know, but to be honest the sheer amount of hype surrounding it put me off more than a little.

But anyway, here's my thoughts on it. Well actually, there is one thing that I have to say before we go any further, and it was a real bone of contention for me throughout the whole film:

That River chick should never have been in it. Never ever ever.

Why? So many reasons come to mind. First off, she was maybe the most cliche character I've seen in a very long time. I've not seen all of Firefly, but the one thing that drew me to it was its characters. River, however, made my skin crawl. A teenage girl that has been abused and whatnot, but is yet amazing nonetheless? Wow, that's novel. Furthermore, not only that but she was by far the worst actor in the film, and the scenes in which she 'kicks ass' only serve to make her more irritating as such a dreadful character is completely undeserving of such glory.

But apart from that I really liked the film. A lot. For the most part it was well acted, and very cleverly shot in places (a very nice use of Realism techniques in places, I did note). Also, a generally well-written script (I say 'generally', because after all someone felt the need to write a character like River into it). And hey, it was even kinda funny in places!

The thing is, though, it had a certain weirdness to it. A certain lack of polish, really. The plot was painfully simple ("We're in space, and there are nasty people... And the government is EVIL!!!"), and the Operative's(?) intro was almost laughably bad ("Did you know I'm really good at martial arts? I kill you for no good reason, you silly defenseless scientist!!"). Not to mention that the CGI did funny things to my brain as everything just looked every-so-slightly not-real.

Basically, if I had to boil it down to a nutshell, here's what I would say about the film: nice ideas, and some nice actors, but ultimately it seemed to think it was way more stylish than it actually was. Cases in point already mentioned - River's fight scene in the bar (she's a whiny teenager, why should I want to see her kick ass?) and the Operative(?) at the start ("This is a good death." Is it? Seems kinda dull to me). The film's best bits were its gritty 'down to earth' scenes, such as Mal plainly shooting people, and Ginger-Pilot-Boy's quick unexpected death. Understatement is the new Overstatement, and always has been.



EDIT: Point of clarification: I am here criticising this film alone. Not the script, nor the story, nor the characters in themselves but how they come across in this film(i.e. the film as a 'film', if you can follow that).

[loopy]

I must admit, I did like River 'Messed up girl' in Firefly better than River 'the Combat Machine' in Serenity.

I think the simplicity of the plot was caused by the fact that they had to distill the entire story of the series and then make an entirely new one for the movie without confusing either of the audiences.

Also I agree that Wash's death added so much to the tension in that movie, even though I was gutted that my favorite characters were getting killed off.

[VetMichael]

I agree that Wash's death added so much to the tension in that movie, even though I was gutted that my favorite characters were getting killed off.

Wash should NEVER have died! Joss Whedon is my mortal enemy forever and ever. It made me hate the movie. But Joss said he did that to quiet down those fans who wanted Firefly/Serenity to return to the small screen and to preclude endless sequels on film. Mission accomplished, Whedon.....

Jerk :xykon:




P.S. Zoe (Gina Torres) is smokin' HOT

[The Extinguisher]

Wash was killed for maximun "Anyone Can Die" factor.

Also, you fail to realize that without River, there would BE no plot.
I liked River as a character. She's better in Firefly, but honestly, I don't see your complaints. River isn't a whiny teenager. If anything, Simon's whiny for her. She's just crazy.

You also miss the point of The Operative. He's a good character, likable, nice, if it wasn't for the fact that he was completly evil. The Alliance aren't the bad guys. The stories just told from the losing side.

Watching Firefly would help. A lot.
But even then, I just can't see your criticisms here.

[EvilElitest]

why was the show cancelled again? I've never seen it but i've heard people got really mad about it
from,
EE

[The Extinguisher]

The guys at Fox are gibbering idiots.

[EvilElitest]

The guys at Fox are gibbering idiots.

something a bit more specific please? I already know that:smallwink:
from,
EE

[TheOtherMC]

something a bit more specific please? I already know that:smallwink:
from,
EE
Decent shows getting chopped left and right before their episodes can even reach the double-digits, and GOOD shows getting caught up in it due to poor "global ratings."

Firefly, Sliders, Space: Above and Beyond, Dark Angel, Tru Calling, Fastlane, Wonderfalls, Pasadena, Reunion, Vanished, Standoff, and Drive.

Poppycock I say, Poppycock.


EDIT: .......on second thought just the first three on the list. :smallbiggrin:

[SmartAlec]

and the Operative's(?) intro was almost laughably bad ("Did you know I'm really good at martial arts? I kill you for no good reason, you silly defenseless scientist!!").

That's not quite the point of the Operative - he knew he'd been sent to kill the scientist, and there was a good reason, but he didn't know what it was and didn't care that he didn't know, either.

[The Extinguisher]

There really, isn't any other explanation then that. For some reason, they didn't like the show, and thought best to kill it with fire.

So actually, there is a better reason.
The guys at Fox are vengeful, gibbering idiots.

[BloodyAngel]

Allow me to sum up the tragedy of Firefly.

Firefly was an AMAZING show. The characters were amazing and well written, and for the most part... well acted. Even the ones I didn't think I'd like, I liked.

Fox aired the episodes out of order... and aired them directly following football, which often runs long, making the show even HARDER to catch and understand. This, when added to Fox's tendency to cancel a show if it does not become an IMMEDIATE success... led to it's untimely death. Unlike Family Guy... it will sadly, never return. :smallfrown:

[TheOtherMC]

Allow me to sum up the tragedy of Firefly.

Firefly was an AMAZING show. The characters were amazing and well written, and for the most part... well acted. Even the ones I didn't think I'd like, I liked.

Fox aired the episodes out of order... and aired them directly following football, which often runs long, making the show even HARDER to catch and understand. This, when added to Fox's tendency to cancel a show if it does not become an IMMEDIATE success... led to it's untimely death. Unlike Family Guy... it will sadly, never return. :smallfrown:

In fact, to add to the absurd confusion, the FIRST episode of Firefly was the LAST to be aired.

[Tom_Violence]

Also, you fail to realize that without River, there would BE no plot.
I liked River as a character. She's better in Firefly, but honestly, I don't see your complaints. River isn't a whiny teenager. If anything, Simon's whiny for her. She's just crazy.

You also miss the point of The Operative. He's a good character, likable, nice, if it wasn't for the fact that he was completly evil. The Alliance aren't the bad guys. The stories just told from the losing side.

Watching Firefly would help. A lot.
But even then, I just can't see your criticisms here.

You presume much. Too much, by a long shot.

In no way do I fail to notice that the plot was centered on River. Or was it? No, not really, it seems to me. Or at least, no, not ultimately. The plot overall seemed to be about the somewhat-totalitarian Alliance and how maybe they're not all they seem to be. River was just a cliche vehicle for that more interesting umbrella.

Also 'tortured crazy "Oh my god I am soooo messed up!"' characters are still cliche and annoying, regardless of other characters' reactions to them. She may be bat guano loco but she's still a character that has no depth and no interest to her, and as such deserves no center stage.

Furthermore, its daft of you to say that just because I didn't like that bit of the plot that the whole film must be a write-off in my eyes. A great film could have been made without that character appearing at all, and if you can't see that then I suggest you exercise your imagination a bit more.

And yes, I got the point of the Operative. I'm just saying that he came across wrong. Not even that, actually. Just that in certain scenes he was a bit too 'evil bad guy must kill things' for no apparent reason, for example:


That's not quite the point of the Operative - he knew he'd been sent to kill the scientist, and there was a good reason, but he didn't know what it was and didn't care that he didn't know, either.

So there may well be a reason for him killing the guys at the start, but that's not how it appears in the film. Even charitably granting that it was, I'd argue that it was still done badly, more silly and flashy than actually stylistic.



Point of clarification: I am here criticising this film alone. Not the script, nor the story, nor the characters in themselves but how they come across in this film(i.e. the film as a 'film', if you can follow that).

[Mewtarthio]

To be honest, I have to agree with most of your assertions. Serentity was a little too... big. I guess you'd understand that more if you'd seen the show: Firefly was about a group of ultimately unimportant drifters running around and having miscellaneous small adventures. River was just a crazy girl who the Government experimented on and who may have had some minor psychic abilities: No flashy, over-the-top action scenes, just insanity and the occasional creepy flash of something more (the closest she ever gets to an action scene is shooting three guys dead and cracking an unnerving joke--oh, and randomly slashing Jayne because she thinks he'd look better covered in blood, but that doesn't count). The entire charm of the show is that Mal isn't a noble hero out to save the world: He's just a former soldier who never surrendered out to take care of himself and his crew.

[The Extinguisher]

("This is a good death." Is it? Seems kinda dull to me).

Something I should point out.

Good, in this case, means honorable. Not cool.


Point of clarification: I am here criticising this film alone. Not the script, nor the story, nor the characters in themselves but how they come across in this film(i.e. the film as a 'film', if you can follow that).

Unless your criticising the film style or techniques, criticising the film means criticising the characters and the story, as they are part of the film in whole. You can't talk about a complete donut if you don't mention the hole.

[Jerthanis]

I went and saw this movie opening night for some reason, I had never seen the show as it was airing, and had barely heard of it before.

I really liked it, and got into the TV show afterwards and liked that almost as much as I liked the movie... and the whole time I had thought of River as a decent enough character. Then I watched the movie again, and came to the conclusion that River as she appears in the movie is one of the worst characters put to screen in a long time. Her lines are delivered either without emotion at all or in incomprehensible gibbers of unconvincing crying, her lines are dull and unimagined, and her character is central to the plot almost because they needed to make up a reason why the Alliance wanted Simon and River back so much in the TV show more than that she was actually a good device.

Some of her worst lines:
Simon: "Do you want to stay with them?"
River: "It isn't safe"
Simon: "No, I fear it isn't safe anymore" *walks away*
River: "...For them."

*I can't remember what the surrounding lines were, but she's being consoled by her brother and is freaking out, her Brother asks about who is in danger, or something like that and River lets out an ear piercing scream, saying*
River: "EVERYONE!"
*followed by an abrupt scene change*

Also, her fight scene in the bar looks lamer every time I see it. Summer Glau is amazingly agile, but her martial finesse in that scene doesn't stand up to close inspection... many of her kicks are thrown lazily, and some people noticably jump with her throws... but perhaps I'm letting my status as a Kung Fu movie fan get in the way of enjoying a halfway decent kung-fu brawl.

I'm glad I wasn't paying enough attention when watching the first time, because I like her from the show, and I might have never liked her if I were to judge her based on the movie.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Watch the show, it fixes most of your complaints by virtue of not being a highly condensed two hour movie that's also a (rather abrupt) series grand finale. Also, they hadn't given River her totally-not-a-Slayer powers yet, so presumably she would annoy you less (personally, I prefer her doing something useful, although she does better at that in "Objects in Space" than the movie, I guess).

Were there just like 8 posts while I was typing this, or did I skip reading them?

[Dispozition]

Ok...I haven't read half the posts in this thread, sorry :P

But really, watch the movie with the directors commentary on, Joss Whedon explains so damn much it's not funny, really...

Other than that, I think the movie was well executed and you needn't have seen firefly to understand it (as I hadn't at that point). Just my 2c though.

[TheRiov]

Serenity as a stand alone film IS lacking. Partially due to the need to cut into an already developed backstory, reiterate that same backstory while at the same time moving the plot forward. Serenity was meant to tell the remaining 1.5 years of the opening plots that the TV series was going to cover.

A few things: River's combat prowse is supposed to come as a shock to you. Her abused nature is all you see for the first 6 episodes of her. There are a couple of hints/foreshadowing that are dropped but the first indication of her combat prowse is not until episode 10. Her psychic abilities are hinted at as early as Episode 3, but even then its unclear if she's more just the idiot-savant type or possibly suffering from some form of autism. (which might lead into her ability to shoot in episode 10)

Her hand-to-hand combat skills are not at all evidenced until the movie (other than her slicing at Jayne once) though its clear she does have some physical ability as a dancer (as shown in ep. 3)

The whole point is: Her development is necessarily shortened in the movie. Those of us who have watched the tv series came to understand what all she was far more slowly, so it doesnt seem so jarring.

The whole subplot with Shephard Book too--we came to understand slowly that he had a much deeper past than is revealed, possibly as a former (or even current) Operative, but limited movie running time means that some stories have to go untold.

The Reavers too, while they come out of the blue in this movie, go back to the very first episode of Firefly, and you see them again in a couple of other episodes.

[Mr. Friendly]

I liked it. It was a good enough flick.

[Tom_Violence]

Something I should point out.

Good, in this case, means honorable. Not cool.

Obviously. But the way it was shot in the film was clearly intended to make an audience swoon.


Unless your criticising the film style or techniques, criticising the film means criticising the characters and the story, as they are part of the film in whole. You can't talk about a complete donut if you don't mention the hole.

Again, obviously. And I've done this. What I'm saying is I'm talking about these elements as they are in the film, not as they may be known to people in a wider scope - I apologise if my previous wording was ambiguous. Don't confuse the piece of cinema that is Serenity with the much broader Firefly universe. If a film has to be supported by materials from outside that film then there's something wrong with it. By way of analogy - someone could say that they didn't like A New Hope because, among other things, they found Luke's character to be annoying and pointless. This person is hardly going to be convinced by someone saying that they once read a Star Wars novel in which Luke was 'totally badass'.

The really odd thing about Serenity was that it had a lot of obvious potential, which really comes across in certain parts. Its almost like there were two people making this film - one a decent writer and filmmaker, the other a complete idiot with 'grand' but cliche ideas. River's character was the cinematic equivilance of a Linkin Park-Evanescence collaboration, whereas Mal's was a smooth-talking ass-kicking cowboy. Sometimes the fight scenes were tight and interesting, other times they were stock 'aren't kung fu and ninja swords just the best thing eva!' cheesy rubbish. I agree with Jerthanis and others that certain characters seemed there just for the sake of it. In fact, I'd go further - it seemed that a lot of the film was there just for the sake of it, as if someone had a checklist of everything that was in Firefly, and another of everything that 'the kids these days are into' (such as slow-motion fight scenes to naff rock music, and crying about your childhood).

I guess its true that you really should be careful what you wish for. The fans of Firefly wished for more, and the got basically the entire series thrown up into a feature, with chunks of a decent film in there somewhere.

[Nerd-o-rama]

It's what happens when people try to do too much. I realized after thinking about it that, while I saw Serenity before seeing the TV show and personally think it stands quite well on its own, I had some of the same complaints as you do about the recent Futurama film. Still a good movie, but they tried to fit too much into a two-hour film.

I also have the ability, which you seem to lack, to enjoy things that seem cliché or trite if they're simply couched in a different manner then I expect. Schizophrenic psychic punching demons with Waif Fu? Meh. Plucky anti-heroes rebelling against an oppressive government? Meh. Space western? Okay, they're aren't enough of those. Put it all together, though, with all the quirks inherent in the Firefly 'Verse (the amalgamated American/Chinese culture, the Schizo Tech, etc.) and Patented Joss Whedon Dialog, and you have one of my favorite science fiction films of all time.

The whole, I'm trying to say, is greater than the sum of its parts.

(Also, Linkin Park/Evanescence might be listenable. Once. The problem is that it would be spammed all over the radio for the next three years, and would probably just be another re-mix cover of Crawling)

[....]

You have a lot of guts criticizing this moive.

Its like saying LOTR isn't good. People go nuts over Firefly... for some reason.

[Skjaldbakka]

"The River" chick was the meta plot of the entire series! You are however, entitled to your opinion. You didn't like the River chick. I am fairly certain that more of the viewers preferred the closer on that plotline than were annoyed by the character's existence.

Which means, whether you liked the character or not, she belonged in the movie. If she hadn't been in the movie, it would have been just another episode of the series, not the movie that ties everything together.

[VetMichael]

Decent shows getting chopped left and right before their episodes can even reach the double-digits, and GOOD shows getting caught up in it due to poor "global ratings."

Firefly, Sliders, Space: Above and Beyond, Dark Angel, Tru Calling, Fastlane, Wonderfalls, Pasadena, Reunion, Vanished, Standoff, and Drive.

Poppycock I say, Poppycock.


EDIT: .......on second thought just the first three on the list. :smallbiggrin:

Don't forget Arrested Development