Nature's Warrior without a casting class?

[quetzalcoatl5]

So I was reviewing the Nature's Warrior Prestige class from Complete Warrior, and I noticed the clause that if you do not have a spellcasting class the levels that advance spellcasting give you levels of Druid spell casting (with the usual "but no other class features" clause). This got me wondering: if you were to take Nature's Warrior through some other means of getting wild shape, then took a different Prestige class that advances casting, would that then give you Druid spellcasting without any of the Druid baggage like no metal armor or must be neutral?

I've searched both on this site and generally online and I just can't find anything about it. Obviously, it's not the most optimized thing of all time, but it could be interesting.

[quetzalcoatl5]

Here's the relevant text:

Spells per Day: At every even-numbered level gained in the nature's warrior class, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class. If the character did not belong to a divine spellcasting class before attaining 2nd level in the prestige class, she gains a druid spellcasting level. In no case, however, does she gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a nature's warrior, she must decide to which class she adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

[Darg]

You don't gain a druid's spells feature so you still can't cast spells. If anything it would be like gaining effective caster levels. It only applies when you can actually use them.

[Crake]

You don't gain a druid's spells feature so you still can't cast spells. If anything it would be like gaining effective caster levels. It only applies when you can actually use them.

That doesnt appear to at all match with what i says “you gain a level of druid spellcasting”, think its pretty clear that it grants you druid spellcasting. If it worked as you’re suggesting, it would be worded way differently.

[Beni-Kujaku]

It probably acts the same way as a racial casting. You cast "as" a member of the class, but you are not a member of that class.

"At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level."

You don't belong in a spellcasting class, hence you cannot stack these casting levels by RAW. I agree that it's a bit dumb, but hey, that's RAW for you. Feel free to ask the DM to allow you to stack them, and there will be no problem whatsoever if they do.

[noce]

This got me wondering: if you were to take Nature's Warrior through some other means of getting wild shape...

How many ways are there to get wild shape that don't also give you divine spellcasting?

These come to my mind:

A level of Ranger for wild empathy (or at most three), then a single level of Abolisher
A level of Shapeshifter PrC from Oriental Adventure
A level of Shifter PrC from Masters of the Wild (assuming Greater Wild Shapes qualifies)
Coupling Champion of the Wild or Spell-less Ranger ACFs with Wild Shape Ranger ACF

[Beni-Kujaku]

How many ways are there to get wild shape that don't also give you divine spellcasting?

Wild Monk ACF from dragon 324
Divine Minion template

[Inevitability]

How many ways are there to get wild shape that don't also give you divine spellcasting?

These come to my mind:

A level of Ranger for wild empathy (or at most three), then a single level of Abolisher
A level of Shapeshifter PrC from Oriental Adventure
A level of Shifter PrC from Masters of the Wild (assuming Greater Wild Shapes qualifies)
Coupling Champion of the Wild or Spell-less Ranger ACFs with Wild Shape Ranger ACF


Landforged Walker has no spellcasting requirements (just skills, warforged race, and ironwood body or skill focus) and gives Plant-only Wild Shape that is 'otherwise like the wild shape class feature' at level 5. It advances casting but doesn't require it. You also turn into a little walking garden, which is cute.

Also a ranger or paladin can take Initiate of Horus-Re at level 4 and get 1/day Hawk-only wildshape, explicitly called out as being Wild Shape specifically, combined with the spell-less ACF for these classes you can get wild shape on a noncaster.

edit: Swanmay gives a swan form that is 'identical to the druid's wild shape ability', entering the class w/o divine levels is possible if you get an arcane source of Speak With Animals, like bard or Wyrm Wizard, and grab Wild Empathy with a ranger dip.

[Thurbane]

That doesnt appear to at all match with what i says “you gain a level of druid spellcasting”, think its pretty clear that it grants you druid spellcasting. If it worked as you’re suggesting, it would be worded way differently.

Yeah, agreed. To me, the wording OP quoted seems to indicate that it would work similarly/the same as Dragon Devotee (although DD seems to say it much more clearly):


If you don’t have any levels in sorcerer before reaching 3rd level in this class, you gain spells per day, spells known, and an increase in caster level as if you were a 1st-level sorcerer. You use all the normal rules for sorcerer spellcasting as described in the Player’s Handbook.

[Darg]

That doesnt appear to at all match with what i says “you gain a level of druid spellcasting”, think its pretty clear that it grants you druid spellcasting. If it worked as you’re suggesting, it would be worded way differently.

"In no case, however, does she gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting."

It doesn't say you gain an actual level of druid spellcasting nor does it grant you the ability to cast druid spells. The way it's worded is more like it wants you be able to benefit from the feature after the fact if you want to, but in a limited fashion.


Yeah, agreed. To me, the wording OP quoted seems to indicate that it would work similarly/the same as Dragon Devotee (although DD seems to say it much more clearly):

Sounds more like if it were intended they would have explained it more in depth.

[Chronos]

You could also combine one of the spell-less ranger variants with the wildshape ranger variant from Unearthed Arcana.

To the OP, it seems to me that, in effect, if you don't already have a divine casting class, Nature's Warrior itself becomes a divine casting class, and so you could use some other PrC to advance it.

[Clause]

Ollam guve us a cleric spellcasting of classevel minus 2. So knight 17+ollam3, will be a perfect build.

The diference is that dragon devotee and nature's warrior give especifically ONE LEVEL of efective spell casting. In my eyes, ollam is better.

[Inevitability]

Ollam guve us a cleric spellcasting of classevel minus 2. So knight 17+ollam3, will be a perfect build.

'Class level' means 'Levels in the Ollam class'. Your knight 17 + ollam 3 will have the spellcasting ability of a 2nd-level cleric.


Level

"Character level" is a character’s total number of levels. It is used to determine when feats and ability score boosts are gained.

"Class level" is a character’s level in a particular class. For a character whose levels are all in the same class, character level and class level are the same.