What Capabilities Should Spellcasters Share With The Rest Of The Class?

[Amechra]

So, it's a pretty well discussed topic that spellcasters (as a group) have access to abilities that no one else gets. So far, so old hat.

My question is... if you had to pick some of those magic-only abilities and make them something that everyone could do (the same way that anyone can swing a sword or make an Intimidate check), what would they be?

Personally, I'd do stuff like...


Alcohol offers you the benefits of the Heroism spell (it's liquid courage!) in exchange for forcing you to make a save vs. being Poisoned. The price based off how hard the save is and how many temporary hit points you get from it.
Consecrated salt is expensive, but a line of it works like Magic Circle and someone with the right know-how can use it to dispel magical effects (Arcana check vs. an appropriate save DC seems pretty reasonable).
Wearing a holy symbol of your own faith shields you from possession and mental influence (I'm picturing it granting you some kind of "mental dodge" action, with there being a feat that gives you the full Protection from Good and Evil benefits).
You can buy various powders that work like Pyrotechnics. Everyone loves fireworks, right?


But I could see stuff like "anyone can use Arcana/Nature/Religion checks to counter spells (insert limits so that everyone doesn't just spam this whenever there's an enemy spellcaster)" or "anyone who uses the Disengage action can concentrate on it as if it were Zephyr Strike once per short rest" or even "everyone gets a single Wish per campaign". If you think everyone should be that magical? Knock yourself out!

Bear in mind, though, that I'm looking for stuff that you'd let anyone and everyone access, not stuff that's class related. It's OK if you have to do a little bit of extra work to get the benefits (like how you need the Healer feat to use Healer's kits to recover HP, or like how armor has various tiers of proficiency), I'm just drawing the line at class or racial features.

[PhoenixPhyre]

A 5e hack I'm working on gives everyone the ability to spend a resource (effectively Stamina or Mana [aether], every character would have both, and this would fuel most of the class abilities including spells) to

* STA: Add their proficiency bonus to their AC against one attack as long as you're wearing armor or a shield (monks get an ability to do it barehanded). If you're wielding a weapon and the attack misses due to the extra, you can riposte attack. This is a pseudo-shield effect. The shield spell, in fact, becomes a long-duration spell that allows the caster to use aether instead of stamina when defending and count as having a shield to enable defending (since mage armor doesn't count and I'm being a fair bit more hard on casting in armor).
* AET + a melee weapon: reaction to smack a caster when casting. On hit, disrupt the spell. Costs a fair bit of AET, which pure martials don't have as much of.
* STA: Gain proficiency in an ability check or saving throw using STR/CON/DEX. Sort of "limited bless+guidance"
* AET: Gain proficiency in an ability check or saving throw using INT/WIS/CHA.

Everyone will also get some form of "magic sense" rolled into Perception. This is more the "hairs on the back of your neck prickle as you reach for the door handle" sort of thing, not a full knowledge of what is going on.

[VladSlavhinsky]

Ok there's a group of Italian youtubers that I follow who are occasionally implementing a feature that I love. All characters are in a school of magic, though not all are properly wizards. The lessons are occasionally taught cantrips or other magic. The master asks the players to perform skill games, sometimes complex sometimes simple, which teach the characters how to cast magic (for example, the somatic component for the message trick consists in the same gesture of passing a pen balanced on the fingers from a hand to the other, gradually reducing the number of fingers used and therefore increasing the difficulty). If the player succeeds in the game of skill, his character has learned the cantrip.
I think that in the future I will apply this same system, when I start with a campaign set in a school of adventurers, and it could be an interesting thing also regarding the topic in question

[Catullus64]

While it's not quite the same in exact details as what you ask for, it would be similar in spirit: have all Healer's Kits work like they presently do for the healer feat, and kick up their gp cost a bit. Make parties somewhat less dependent on spellcasters for healing.

In terms of things more precisely like what you asked for:

Have the Charmed condition be something that anyone can impose with the right RP and Intimidation/Persuasion/Deception/Performance check, perhaps only if you're proficient in the skill.

Smith's Tools can allow you to essentially cast Magic Weapon.

Animal Languages (perhaps in broad categories like Aerial, Waterborne, Terrestrial, Subterranean) can be learned like other languages instead of requiring Speak With Animals.

Anyone can do Augury (the spell is so vague that it really wouldn't hurt).

There are a handful of spells I would allow to anyone with the Arcana or possibly Religion skill, though they would be very complex to achieve: Protection from Evil & Good, Ceremony, Detect Magic, Identify, Magic Circle, Dispel Magic, Banishment (planar outsiders only).

[da newt]

I don't know that I'd want everyone to have access to magical abilities. I prefer magic to be special in my fantasy world - only ~5% of folks have ANY magic and only a small portion of them are full class casters. It's just my preferred head canon and world design.

What I would like to see is a bit of a boost for non-magic folks to counter spell casting. Something simple like if you are in melee w/ someone and they cast a spell it triggers an opp att might be enough ... maybe even all non-casters get mage slayer for free (barb, monk, fighter, rogue).

[Pex]

I'd start with spells that mimic skill use. A high enough Athletics check gives you Jump, higher DC for Spider Climb. Acrobatics leads to Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Misty Step. Where this becomes dangerous is social interaction. As of now it's very important to tell players just because you roll Natural 20 on Persuasion the king will not give you his throne because you asked. At best he won't throw you in the dungeon thinking you're making a joke. However, with this idea why can't someone use Persuasion/Intimidation to be like Charm Person, Suggestion, or Dominate Person? Those spells have restrictions. You'd need to make sure social skill checks also abide by those restrictions and make sure the PC does not Win D&D because he rolled a 20.

Knowledge checks lead to Locate Object, Locate Creature, Identify, Detect Magic, Legend Lore. Insight leads to Detect Thoughts, Glibness, Mind Blank. Medicine leads to Cure Wounds, Restoration, CPR for Revivify, etc.

The problem is in the details. When do these abilities come online for PCs? What are the mechanics to determine success? It's a rewrite of the system. To avoid needing DC 30, DC 40 checks you need to have unlocks. Anyone can jump their ST score, but you need to be this class at this level to make a DC X check to simulate Jump spell.

Also keep in mind spellcasters are allowed to do things only they can do, just as warriors should have things only they can do. AOE damage and environmental effects could be magic only. Far traveling as well, perhaps. A ranger could make a knowledge check to know where a Portal is that leads to a specific plane but the party must travel there. Let the wizard cast Plane Shift to bring the party there anytime he wants whenever he wants and stop crying the warrior can never ever do that.

[Witty Username]

In that vein,
Martial characters should have greater at-will damage, better saves, and passive abilities that increase AC, resist damage, and regenerate health.

[KorvinStarmast]

In that vein,
Martial characters should have greater at-will damage, better saves, and passive abilities that increase AC, resist damage, and regenerate health. This.
Skill/abililty checks are not magic. I guess that needs to be repeated a few more times. :smallcool:

[Sigreid]

I'd personally not have a problem letting anyone use scrolls. Buy then I started way back when anyone could at least use protection scrolls.

[Saelethil]

I'd personally not have a problem letting anyone use scrolls. Buy then I started way back when anyone could at least use protection scrolls.

My group does this and it works fine

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'd personally not have a problem letting anyone use scrolls. Buy then I started way back when anyone could at least use protection scrolls.


My group does this and it works fine

Yeah. I have Spell Stones as a thing. Same as scrolls, just anyone can use them and they can't be scribed. Scrolls are generally either old or wizard specific.

[Rafaelfras]

So, it's a pretty well discussed topic that spellcasters (as a group) have access to abilities that no one else gets. So far, so old hat.

My question is... if you had to pick some of those magic-only abilities and make them something that everyone could do (the same way that anyone can swing a sword or make an Intimidate check), what would they be?

Personally, I'd do stuff like...


Alcohol offers you the benefits of the Heroism spell (it's liquid courage!) in exchange for forcing you to make a save vs. being Poisoned. The price based off how hard the save is and how many temporary hit points you get from it.
Consecrated salt is expensive, but a line of it works like Magic Circle and someone with the right know-how can use it to dispel magical effects (Arcana check vs. an appropriate save DC seems pretty reasonable).
Wearing a holy symbol of your own faith shields you from possession and mental influence (I'm picturing it granting you some kind of "mental dodge" action, with there being a feat that gives you the full Protection from Good and Evil benefits).
You can buy various powders that work like Pyrotechnics. Everyone loves fireworks, right?




Bear in mind, though, that I'm looking for stuff that you'd let anyone and everyone access, not stuff that's class related. It's OK if you have to do a little bit of extra work to get the benefits (like how you need the Healer feat to use Healer's kits to recover HP, or like how armor has various tiers of proficiency), I'm just drawing the line at class or racial features.
I like your list very much, specially because it is the kind of magic we see non magic users using in a lot of different stories. They are very good steps to make the world more mystical

[RogueJK]

But I could see stuff like "anyone can use Arcana/Nature/Religion checks to counter spells (insert limits so that everyone doesn't just spam this whenever there's an enemy spellcaster)"

While I think non-magically countering a spell from 60' away is quite a stretch, there's at least a slight precedence for this sort of thing already in the Arcana skill.

RAW, an Arcana check allows one to disarm a magical trap, even without the use of magic. From the DMG section on Traps:


A trap’s description specifies the checks and DCs needed to detect it, disable it, or both. A character actively looking for a trap can attempt a Wisdom (Perception) check against the trap’s DC. You can also compare the DC to detect the trap with each character’s passive Wisdom (Perception) score to determine whether anyone in the party notices the trap in passing. If the adventurers detect a trap before triggering it, they might be able to disarm it, either permanently or long enough to move past it. You might call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check for a character to deduce what needs to be done, followed by a Dexterity check using thieves’ tools to perform the necessary sabotage.

Any character can attempt an Intelligence (Arcana) check to detect or disarm a magic trap, in addition to any other checks noted in the trap’s description. The DCs are the same regardless of the check used.

[verbatim]

Every class getting either magical cantrips or a nonmagical equivalent would be a step in the right direction for balance imo.

Some ideas to hit on:

Barbarian low damage AoE with scaling radius
Ranger/Monk Steel Wind Strike but instead very low damage, possibly auto hit Dex # of targets for PB damage?
Fighter and Monk basically some hybridization of the new weapon abilities and Battlemaster Maneuvers
Rogue and Paladin I have no idea

[JLandan]

Every class getting either magical cantrips or a nonmagical equivalent would be a step in the right direction for balance imo.

Some ideas to hit on:

Barbarian low damage AoE with scaling radius
Ranger/Monk Steel Wind Strike but instead very low damage, possibly auto hit Dex # of targets for PB damage?
Fighter and Monk basically some hybridization of the new weapon abilities and Battlemaster Maneuvers
Rogue and Paladin I have no idea


A lot of your ideas are used in Adventures in Rokugan. The Bushi and Duelist classes have "martial techniques" that are more like martial spells than the Battlemaster Maneuvers. Area attacks including new areas such as an arc, multiple target attacks using a single roll, attacks versus passive perception rather than AC. There are a lot of them and they all have cool martial arts names. They're powered by a mechanic called focus. You start each encounter with zero focus (some techniques cost zero) and accumulate it as the round progress, so studying an enemy while in combat increases your focus points and empowers your techniques. They also have a different Stances that provide options in combat and possibly generate more focus points.

[Amechra]

I don't know that I'd want everyone to have access to magical abilities. I prefer magic to be special in my fantasy world - only ~5% of folks have ANY magic and only a small portion of them are full class casters. It's just my preferred head canon and world design.

This is a big part of why I picked the examples that I did, rather than something like "everyone can cast Magic Missile 1/day" or the like — they're all either slight exaggerations of something mundane (Heroism booze, Pyrotechnics through literal flash powder) or reflect flaws in magic itself (spirits and magic don't like salt, possessing entities have problems overcoming faith). They also supply mechanical answers to problems that are normally only answerable through magic in D&D, like temporarily gaining immunity to being Frightened before facing down a dragon.

[Kane0]

Everything tagged as (Ritual)

[animorte]

Everything tagged as (Ritual)
Ah! You beat me to it!

[PhoenixPhyre]

Everything tagged as (Ritual)


Ah! You beat me to it!

As I've mentioned before, I have a homebrew for that. I call them "incantations" and go beyond just the ritual spells to encompass a decent chunk of the non-combat utility spells. Google Doc Link (https://docs.google.com/document/d/18BwA_2ZVFezeVr7DaCrmSEvHE3DMsUHYsHoY8ADqnL8/edit?usp=sharing)

Best part is that it's optional--anyone can pick them up if they choose, but isn't forced to do so. One thing I haven't done yet is change Ritual Caster (feat and feature) to instead give a couple free Ritual Scrolls, with the feature giving a few extra along the way at higher levels. So the "ritualists" would still be better at doing them, but only in the sense that they have access to a couple thematic ones "for free".

It also can just be included without actually modifying the spell lists, just by throwing in the Ritual Scrolls[1] as treasure and for purchase as if they were spell scrolls.


Comprehend Languages
Tongues
Animal Messenger
Magic Mouth
Illusory Script
Dream (modified)
Sending
Telepathic Bond
Awaken
Continual Flame
Create Food and Water
Creation (modified slightly)
Fabricate
Wall of stone (permanent version only, slower cast)
Earthquake
Floating Disk
Gate (split into two, one for the "call someone" and one for the "go anywhere")
Planar Binding (modified slightly)
Planar Ally (modified slightly)
Rope Trick
Tiny Hut
Magnificent Mansion
True Polymorph (dropping the object -> creature route because, well, metaphysics)
Unseen Servant
Alarm
Astral Projection (modified as a group thing)
Augury
Clairvoyance
Commune, Commune with Nature, Contact other plane (combined)
Divination
Find the Path
Identify
Legend Lore
Locate X (combined)
Magic Aura
Nondetection
Programmed Illusion
Scrying
Speak with X (combined)
Antipathy/sympathy
Enthrall (buffed)
Geas (buffed)
Mind Blank
Modify Memory
Mending
Plant Growth (the augmenting fertility portion)
Purify Food and Drink
Restoration, Lesser & Greater (combined)
Gentle Repose
Instant Summons
Fly (now a group thing)
Phantom Steed
Plane Shift
Project Image
Teleportation Circle
Teleport
Transport via Plants
Water Walk
Water Breathing
Arcane Lock
Forbiddance
Guards and Wards
Hallow
Private Sanctum
Glyph of Warding (modified)

A total of 72 spells, all told


[1] the item that gates access to a particular Incantation. Basically a non-consumable spell scroll anyone of the right level can use that you have to have in hand to do the Incantation.