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Khedrac
2023-06-07, 02:10 AM
So, one has worked out an uber-wizard build (not necessarily over powered, but optimised for the game to be played), you look down at the three prestige classes involved and all the abilities gained with satisfaction and the nice high save DCs on spells you cast and think "my character is ready for anything". You then sit down at the table and the first words out of the DM's mouth are "make a fortitude save and a reflex save please". Oops.

I have looked over the list of handbooks (useful thread that) and failed to find anything that lists ways to get bonuses to your saving throws, quite an omission considering how many lists there are of ways to raise the DCs.
Resistance bonuses only go so far (specifically to +5 pre-epic) and other bonuses seem to be few and far between.
So how do you boost the saving throws of a character without using feats?

Saintheart
2023-06-07, 03:12 AM
- Take lots of first levels in character classes

- Buy stat-boosters to Dex, Con, and Wis

- Be a martial adept, take Moment of Perfect X maneuvers, max out your Concentration skill

- Pick up or craft martial items which grant Moment of Perfect X maneuvers, max out your Concentration skill

- Be a Necropolitan, become immune to any effect that requires a Fort save unless it also affects an object, as your type is now undead (and thus heavily narrowing the amount of times you'll ever have to make a Fort save)

- Be a Necropolitan, become immune to all mind-affecting effects as your type is now undead (and thus heavily narrowing the amount of times you'll ever have to make a Will save)

- In general, peruse the X stat to Y bonus table for more guidance on SADing your scores

Inevitability
2023-06-07, 03:18 AM
Insightful Reflexes from Complete Adventurer is useful in the given example: it lets a character substitute their Intelligence for their Dexterity modifier when making a Reflex save.

A level in marshall can give charisma to a save of your choice, two levels in paladin can give charisma to all saves (wisdom if you also take Serenity). An arguably better alternative to the last dip is Soldier of Light, which gives Divine Grace and Turn Undead in its first two levels, plus a little spellcasting, and doesn't run afoul of multiclass penalties. Its entry requirements are quire reasonable (only prerequisites are +5 BAB, 4 ranks in knowledge, patron deity, NG alignment).

A rat familiar can boost fortitude saves, a weasel can boost reflex.


edit: Also, for charisma-based characters, there's Ruin Delvers Fortune for charisma to any save as an immediate action, plus a synergistic defensive buff.

Gorthawar
2023-06-07, 05:56 AM
Have your cleric cast mass conviction on the whole party for a nice morale bonus.
Have your cleric cast Tyche's touch on you for a sacred bonus (24h duration) so a pearl of power at level 2 might convince him to spare 1 cast it on you daily.
Cast superior resistance on yourself for a +6 resistance bonus (24h duration lvl 6 spell)

Edit: Insightful Divination feat gives you a significant insight bonus on your next save following the casting of a divination spell.

Khedrac
2023-06-07, 06:40 AM
Insightful Reflexes from Complete Adventurer is useful in the given example: it lets a character substitute their Intelligence for their Dexterity modifier when making a Reflex save.

A level in marshall can give charisma to a save of your choice, two levels in paladin can give charisma to all saves (wisdom if you also take Serenity). An arguably better alternative to the last dip is Soldier of Light, which gives Divine Grace and Turn Undead in its first two levels, plus a little spellcasting, and doesn't run afoul of multiclass penalties. Its entry requirements are quire reasonable (only prerequisites are +5 BAB, 4 ranks in knowledge, patron deity, NG alignment).

A rat familiar can boost fortitude saves, a weasel can boost reflex.

edit: Also, for charisma-based characters, there's Ruin Delvers Fortune for charisma to any save as an immediate action, plus a synergistic defensive buff.

I had forgotten Insightful reflexes which could be good for this character (and plenty of others) - nice suggestion so thank-you.
I tend to think marshal a bit of the over-powered side because of the power of the lesser auras (the greater ones are fine). In this case I am re-creating a 3.0 character who is going from losing 1 caster level to losing 2 (elemental savant so I get a load of immunities though) so I really don't want to lose a third. Soldier of Light is very interesting for future reference!


Have your cleric cast mass conviction on the whole party for a nice morale bonus.
Have your cleric cast Tyche's touch on you for a sacred bonus (24h duration) so a pearl of power at level 2 might convince him to spare 1 cast it on you daily.
Cast superior resistance on yourself for a +6 resistance bonus (24h duration lvl 6 spell)

Edit: Insightful Divination feat gives you a significant insight bonus on your next save following the casting of a divination spell.
Time to make pointed suggestions to the cleric's player - good ideas though I have to work out how to get Tyche's Touch past the GM who normally bans content that originates in FR or Eberron (so Spell Compendium stuff only gets in if you can show it didn't come from an earlier FR book).
Superior Resistance is not worth the improvement over a +5 item (and is out for campaign reasons in this particular case).

I found an old thread recommending the Ring of Mystic Defiance and the cat's-eye brooch which are also useful options.
Ditto a [rune]staff of power, especially if it is low on charges to bring the price down.

Gorthawar
2023-06-07, 06:50 AM
If you can't get the TOB items granting you the maneuvers to use concentration instead of a save once per fight the is also the headband of conscious effort to use concentration for a fort save 1/day.

Biggus
2023-06-07, 07:13 AM
In addition to what's already been said:

Hand of Divinity (C2, SpC) can also give a sacred bonus

Recitation (C4, SpC) gives a luck bonus to the whole team

If the Cleric doesn't want to cast Mass Conviction, you can cast (Greater) Heroism yourself for a morale bonus.

Haste gives a dodge bonus to reflex saves.

Items:

Pale Green Ioun Stone +1 competence

Stone of Good Luck +1 luck

Robe of the Vagabond (CCh) +1 luck. Cheap (6000GP) and also gives a +1 luck bonus to AC, good if the Cleric doesn't want to cast Recitation regularly

Crystal Mask of Mindarmour (MIC) +4 will (insight)

Belt of Endurance (A&EG) +2 Fort (unnamed bonus, grants Great Fortitude feat)

Amulet of Fortune Prevailing (MIC) reroll a save 1/day, only 5,000GP

Headband of Conscious Effort (MIC) make a Concentration check instead of a Fortitude save 1/day, only 2,000GP

Mantle of Second Chances (MIC) reroll any roll 1/day

Phaant's Luckstone (GW) reroll any roll, single use, 1,000GP

Ring of Evasion

Tabard of Valor (CCh) gain mettle when you're on half HPs or less

Asmotherion
2023-06-07, 08:08 AM
For Charisma Casters, this is Easy: Use the Spell "Ruin Delver's Fortune".

Not sure how relevant it is for your Wizards, but if you can afford a good Cha Score, it's always a nice boost.

Edit: Had already been included.

Harrow
2023-06-07, 10:31 AM
It's too bad your DM doesn't allow Eberron stuff because, like many things in 3.5, artificers do it best. For the sake of anyone reading this who is allowed Eberron content, artificers offer the best saves for two reasons. The first is a 1st level spell, Resistance Item. You take a nonmagical item and make it give a Resistance bonus to saves at +1, with an additional +1 every 4 caster levels. It has no cap, so at higher levels and with caster level shenanigans you can get some pretty serious bonuses out of a simple level 1 spell. The other option is a 4th level spell, Item Alteration. That one let's you take any existing magic item (excluding those that grant Sacred or Profane bonuses) and make it give a different kind of bonus to the same stat for the duration. Once again, you can't change the bonus into Sacred or Profane either, and Dodge bonuses to AC are also off the table. Anything else is fair game. Even (explicitly) Circumstance bonuses, which are normally more of a DM thing.

tl;dr Item Alteration your Cloak of Resistance +5 to give an Alchemical bonus to saves or whatever, then use a tricked out Resistance Item to get a hefty Resistance bonus on top of that.

There are drawbacks. Both spells have a 1 round casting time, so they aren't something you want to use in combat if you can avoid it. But, they also have a duration of 10 minutes/level. It's not terrible. If you're in a dungeon, Resistance Item will likely have your whole adventuring day covered from a relatively low level, especially if you Extend it. Having both up 24/7 requires a bit more investment, but is possible at higher levels. Also, Artificers can only cast up to 6th level spells, so the 4th level slot for each casting of Item Alteration is a precious resource. Opportunity cost, and whatnot.

Bonzai
2023-06-08, 12:11 AM
I usually always invest in a mantle of second chances, and add on +'s to stats that boost saves, and get a luck blade.

Khedrac
2023-06-08, 02:05 AM
Great additions folks, thank-you all.

Chronos
2023-06-08, 07:14 AM
Item Alteration really needs more explicit limitations on what bonus types it can use. As it is, you can make a whole bunch of items that each give the same normal (in both amount and type) bonus, at most paying 1.5 times for them for some of them taking up the wrong body slot, and turn one into an Enhancement bonus, and one into a Competence bonus, and a Morale and Insight and Luck and Alchemical and Racial and Size and whatever other bonus types you can scrounge up from anywhere, and so get a total bonus that's many times greater than what the system is designed for, for way cheaper than it's supposed to be (most items that give a bonus to something have a price proportional to the square of the bonus, but this is only a linear increase so long as you can continue to find new bonus types, and there are a lot of bonus types out there).

RNightstalker
2023-06-08, 10:44 AM
Complete Scoundrel has the luck feats that grants rerolls, and one allows you to burn a reroll to consider a natural 1 as a natural 20 on a save.

smetzger
2023-06-08, 11:51 AM
Moment of Prescience - it's 8th level. So not solution until higher levels, but something to consider when you get there.

Rebel7284
2023-06-08, 01:22 PM
- Craft Contingent Spell + Limited Wish for +7 to a save seems like it would be perfectly reasonable way of doing things.
- (Draconic) Polymorph into Gloura + Buff Charisma sky high
- Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightenment -> Luck Domain/Pride Domain
- There is a Paladin ACF that allows them to share their Divine Grace for a limited time
- Phrenic Creature has Precognition, Defensive which boosts both AC and saves and auto-augments like all PLAs. +2 LA, but if LA buyoff is allowed, the bonuses to mental stats might be worth it!

Crichton
2023-06-08, 09:44 PM
Since Insightful Reflexes has already been mentioned, it's worth mentioning Keen Intellect (Dragon #318) to replace Wis with Int for Will saves. It's an 'ancestor' feat from the Oriental Adventures update, though, so your DM might not allow it, since it sounds like they're kinda restrictive with source materials from settings.

Chronos
2023-06-09, 06:34 AM
Thinking outside the box, here: Wear a monk's robe. No, not any specific magic item (though it could be, if you wanted), just the mundane clothing traditionally worn by monks. If the enemy thinks you're really good at making saving throws but incapable of doing anything actually threatening, you'll be the last person they target with spells or other effects with saves.

Meanwhile, of course, the actual monk in your party is wearing a robe covered with stars and planets and a pointy hat.