Poison immunity question

[NINJA_HUNTER]

I was wondering if a creature a demon for example is "immune to poison" would that be (ANY) poison? I am wanting to know if it's either something epic like devastation vermin or augmented or perhaps from exalted deeds (angel blood) just wondering or if "immunity" covers everything?

[FactualArcher]

Ravages from the book of exalted deeds bypass evil creatures poison immunity. They're not exactly poisons, but are basically the same thing.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Ravages from the book of exalted deeds bypass evil creatures poison immunity. They're not exactly poisons, but are basically the same thing.Using poisons is eeeeevil because they "promote suffering," despite ravages also causing the targets to suffer, and various poisons actually cause less suffering than ravages. For instance, drow sleep poison.

But using ravages is okay, because only evil people suffer. But using poisons isn't, even if you only use them on evil people.

D&D alignment rules are d-u-m-b (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WKNV3R1NhIk). [/Gallagher]

[Saintheart]

Using poisons is eeeeevil because they "promote suffering," despite ravages also causing the targets to suffer, and various poisons actually cause less suffering than ravages. For instance, drow sleep poison.

Book of Exalted Deeds specifically calls out drow sleep poison as one of the few, if not the only, poison that Exalted/Good characters can actually use without tangling with alignment problems, because it only sends a person to sleep, it doesn't harm them.

[Crake]

Book of Exalted Deeds specifically calls out drow sleep poison as one of the few, if not the only, poison that Exalted/Good characters can actually use without tangling with alignment problems, because it only sends a person to sleep, it doesn't harm them.

Oil of taggit also puts people to sleep, but its an ingested poison. Of the various dex and str poisons, many are also described as numbing paralytic agents, which, by numbing you, do quite the opposite of causing suffering.

[Biggus]

There's also the Epic Poison Crafter feat from Epic Insights which allows you to make antimagic poisons which ignore all magical and supernatural resistances and immunities:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161101074508/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021110a

Also appeared in the "compiled and updated" Epic Insights, not sure if it's actually any different but included for completeness:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161101074118/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030810a

Personally I think it's a bit nuts that a low-level spell can make you immune to a DC 80 poison so in my games I've house-ruled that most immunity actually gives you a huge bonus rather than total immunity. This is partly because I'm currently running an epic campaign and by that level it's common for PCs to be immune to numerous different types of harm, you can end up with very few ways to attack which actually work which takes a lot of the variety out of the game and the threat out of a lot of enemies.

[Khedrac]

I was wondering if a creature a demon for example is "immune to poison" would that be (ANY) poison? I am wanting to know if it's either something epic like devastation vermin or augmented or perhaps from exalted deeds (angel blood) just wondering or if "immunity" covers everything?
To get back to the original question, poison immunity covers everything claims to be a poison and doesn't have text explicitly bypassing poison immunity.

At high levels all characters are expected to be immune to poison (heroes' feast) so poison effects are there to catch forgetful characters, those who have been dispelled, and spear carriers (NPCs present to show how dangerous the monster is). (That said, I think the writers often forgot how common poison immunity is and expected it to be a challenge.)

[Biggus]

At high levels all characters are expected to be immune to poison (heroes' feast) so poison effects are there to catch forgetful characters, those who have been dispelled, and spear carriers (NPCs present to show how dangerous the monster is). (That said, I think the writers often forgot how common poison immunity is and expected it to be a challenge.)

Yeah, I've seen it suggested that some of the epic monsters should be given a dispel ability (none of the ELH monsters with poison have one, so unless they're paired with another one who does, they might as well not have poison in most circumstances).

[Saintheart]

Yeah, I've seen it suggested that some of the epic monsters should be given a dispel ability (none of the ELH monsters with poison have one, so unless they're paired with another one who does, they might as well not have poison in most circumstances).

There are three high-HD monsters which can suppress or override poison immunity:

Molydeus (FC 1): it's a monster, but accessible under Shapechange, and cuts straight through poison immunity. Useful if you're fighting demons in particular, but it doesn't go through poison immunity granted by constructs, oozes, plants, or the undead type.

Sertrous (EldEvls): ... okay, he's an Elder Evil, but at least he does the same thing a Molydeus does.

Shaktari (Dragon #359. p. 50): also a high-end outsider, but exudes an aura meaning everything within 120 feet is not immune to poison (construct, undead, and elemtnals remain unaffected.)

[Biggus]

There are three high-HD monsters which can suppress or override poison immunity:

Molydeus (FC 1): it's a monster, but accessible under Shapechange, and cuts straight through poison immunity. Useful if you're fighting demons in particular, but it doesn't go through poison immunity granted by constructs, oozes, plants, or the undead type.

Sertrous (EldEvls): ... okay, he's an Elder Evil, but at least he does the same thing a Molydeus does.

Shaktari (Dragon #359. p. 50): also a high-end outsider, but exudes an aura meaning everything within 120 feet is not immune to poison (construct, undead, and elemtnals remain unaffected.)

Oh thanks, I'd never heard of the Shaktari before.

[Thurbane]

Isn't there some symbiont or item or something that is based on the snake head of the Molydeus, that also has venom that bypasses poison immunity?

In an issue of Dungeon, I think. I'm sure Shurikvich will know exactly what I mean...

[Chronos]

While we're at it with the alignment weirdness, couatls are always-lawful-good outsiders, and their attack naturally has a significant (and ability-damaging, not just sleep) poison. Aside from undiscriminating ways of administering poison, like poison gas, I think it's probably best to just ignore the alignment rules regarding poison in general (there might be some specific poisons that are still evil, because they're engineered to be especially painful, or because their method of production requires other evil acts, or something, but those would be specific exceptions).

[Biggus]

While we're at it with the alignment weirdness, couatls are always-lawful-good outsiders, and their attack naturally has a significant (and ability-damaging, not just sleep) poison.

I dunno, being born with a naturally poisonous bite isn't really the same thing as making/buying it and intentionally adding it to your weapons.

[ShurikVch]

Isn't there some symbiont or item or something that is based on the snake head of the Molydeus, that also has venom that bypasses poison immunity?

In an issue of Dungeon, I think. I'm sure Shurikvich will know exactly what I mean...
Choke Snake (Dungeon #148)
No wonder they're able to ignore immunity: the snake is literally cut from a Molydeus (thus, it's the same poison)

[Asmotherion]

Positoxins (Libris Mortis), are technically not poisons, but act exactly as them. They are designed to hurt Corporeal Undead specifically.